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Goodbye Jesus

From hell to hell


Druid

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How can Christians believe that those who don't believe in Jesus go to hell? Seriously.

 

Who would follow a god that would send Jews from concentration camps to the eternal damnation of hell?

 

If a leader of a country tortures part of his own population purely for their beliefs we would rightly condemn him as a monster. However alot of christians say god does this and call him all loving.

 

The agrument that we condemn ourselves by sin and can only be saved by accepting Jesus doesn't make sense as punishment is still only based on belief.

 

How can christians say morality comes from a god that offend our sense of morality and justice in such a way?

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Cause he's god and can do what he wants....

 

Xtians will wiggle and squirm and try to justify it as a parent disciplining a child, or, claiming there is no hell.

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Cause he's god and can do what he wants....

 

And they say it like it's the most reasonable and legitimate thing in the world.

 

Are you really allowed to abuse and kill something just because you created it?

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Guess if your god you can.

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Cause he's god and can do what he wants....

 

Xtians will wiggle and squirm and try to justify it as a parent disciplining a child, or, claiming there is no hell.

 

If a parent disciplines a child by say locking them in a cage for the rest of his/her life, he/she is a monster and not a fit parent. From my current understanding of hell this punishment is alot worse. A parent disciplines a child not to punish but to stop certain types of behaviour. A punishment that lasts for eternity can serve no such purpose.

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As a christian we didn't believe that jews went to hell. There are four places meantioned in the bible.

 

Hell and Hades:

 

(not sure which is which anymore) One is just above the fire and one is in the fire. The one above hell is where "sinners" go before the final judgement

 

Paradise is where the jews went before Jesus came

Heaven is where the "christians go and where the Jews go to next after paradise when they accept Jesus as christ".

 

This is what I had been taught, anyways.

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When I was a kid my parents were upset when I proclaimed that my grand-parents were going to burn in hell becuase they were Catholic. That's what I was taught in the Xtian school bible study classes. We shortly there after switched to a more moderate church (and I went to public school)....but the hell doctorine was still there.

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As a christian we didn't believe that jews went to hell. There are four places meantioned in the bible.

 

Hell and Hades:

 

(not sure which is which anymore) One is just above the fire and one is in the fire. The one above hell is where "sinners" go before the final judgement

 

Paradise is where the jews went before Jesus came

Heaven is where the "christians go and where the Jews go to next after paradise when they accept Jesus as christ".

 

This is what I had been taught, anyways.

 

It was really more of an example. Could say anything really such as the muslims tortured by Saddam's people for speaking out against him.

 

And still getting to heaven is still based on the persons beliefs.

 

*Damn typos*

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I sure as hell :twitch: believed that jews went to hell. So did most of the christians I hung out with.

 

"There are those who call themselves Jews but belong to the synogogue of Satan"

from the book of revelations.

 

"No man comes unto the Father, but by me" (Jesus speaking)

 

Speaking to the pharisees "You are of your father, the devil" (again, Jesus)

 

 

I knew these freakin verses and believed em. No Jesus, no heaven.

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Yes, Jesus claimed he was the only truth and the only way to God.

 

And since most Christians are divided in theology about how to get saved, no one knows which one is the true way of getting saved, then no Christians are going there either.

 

Everyone is going to Hell. So I guess God is going to be quite alone after all.

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Guest Joseph

Your first problem is trying to make Christianity make sense....

 

How can Christians believe that those who don't believe in Jesus go to hell? Seriously.

 

Because that is what Jesus said in the NT, along with wonderful descriptions in parables about people in torture in the afterlife not having water and desiring but a drop. Then there is the reference to the "lake of fire" and the "weeping and nashing of teeth." Also the wonderful "prepare for the devil and his angels..." routine.

 

They believe it because it says it not because it makes any sense silly.

 

Who would follow a god that would send Jews from concentration camps to the eternal damnation of hell? 

 

Depends which sectation. Remember, Rome's Church says that Jews have their salvation through the deal YHVH made with them a long time ago. Protestants and others do not know if there is any other way of salvation except through Jesus and they teach that along with the "I am the way...no man cometh unto the Father but by me..." routine.

 

So, the Catholics really do not think that the Jews are in hell (perhaps purgatory but not hell)...and the protestants mostly teach that they are in hell but the varying sectations disagree on what type of hell.

 

If a leader of a country tortures part of his own population purely for their beliefs we would rightly condemn him as a monster.

 

What "we."

Christianity does not believe in religious freedom of choice. It is a barberic idea which has murdered millions over the ages in order to force this specific ideology/theological sect upon mankind. From Inquisitions to the Crusades Christianity was spread on the tip of a sword. Your idea that a Christian has the same respect for other faiths as our founding fathers did when they strictly forbade the state from picking a religion to back or to place religious tests upon leaders and such things do not come from a Christian tradition. In fact this spits in the face of Christian tradition 100%.

 

Not only that but the teachings of the "elect of God" who were saved (taught by Paul) is in direct violation of our Declaration of Independence which places all men as equal (mockery to the King and to the elect within Christendom), also the teachings that a man or group of men can rebel against the State go directly opposite to the teachings of Christianity in every way. The founding fathers for the most part were NOT Christian but were for the most part free thinkers, part time Christians, weak Christians, and many were Masons (which believe in One God but leave the rest to the individual).

 

So when you say "we" understand that free thinkers like the founding fathers did not base their concepts of a free people who the state is given power by from Christian ideas, in fact the very words used within our founding documents mock the very teachings found within Christianity outright.

 

However alot of christians say god does this and call him all loving.

 

Actually, they would say that God gives them a chance to learn of Him and if they do not then they condemn themselves. That would be the newest teachings of Christianity as we are not in the ages of "people in the hands of an angry God" concept anymore but moreso in the age inwhich they teach that God doesn't want any to perish but that only those who cut off their brain and believe utter barberic lunacy will be saved.

 

The agrument that we condemn ourselves by sin and can only be saved by accepting Jesus doesn't make sense as punishment is still only based on belief.

 

Something about God being Inifinitely Just makes/requires Him to punish the guilty. The problem is that Christianity labels "sin" as an infinite offense when this concept is contradictory to the very acts which take place when a person sins (a finite human doing a sin does something in a temporal realm which has a beginning and an ending point and thus it is labeled as an infinite offense at their own logical peril).

 

A better idea would be to label sin as a finite's offense and to base the crime upon the one who did it, not upon the victim. Under such a manner the punishment could only be a finite punishment at best, perhaps mortal death (which in fact lines up with exactly what our punishment was from Genesis).

 

How can christians say morality comes from a god that offend our sense of morality and justice in such a way?

 

They claim that morality is what God dictates and is not something we as humans can judge and by such God can murder millions in a flood and kill innocent children in Egypt and slay innocent teens that mock on of his teachers and still be infinitely good....because they have pre-setup the idea that GOD defines what is good at any given point. And this same person will come back and claim that an "absolute morality" exists...I KID YOU NOT!

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"There are those who call themselves Jews but belong to the synogogue of Satan"

from the book of revelations

 

That is right. Just because they call themselves Jews doesn't mean they are practicing. There are those who call themselves christian and claim to know christ and they will be spit out of god's mouth.

 

"No man comes unto the Father, but by me" (Jesus speaking)

 

See the christians I knew believed as I did that jews go to paradise and then can reach heaven. See the rules are different for "god's people"

 

 

Speaking to the pharisees "You are of your father, the devil" (again, Jesus)

 

Again, the pharisees were screwing the jews. Remember Jesus calling them thieves and worse. He was a jew himself and was not against the jews, only the so called "leaders"

 

But isn't it like christians to quote a book when none of them can agree on what it means? :scratch:

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Who would follow a god that would send Jews from concentration camps to the eternal damnation of hell?

 

Someone who was brainwashed.

 

If a leader of a country tortures part of his own population purely for their beliefs we would rightly condemn him as a monster.

 

Saddam Hussein did this. So did the Taliban. So did Hitler.

 

How can christians say morality comes from a god that offend our sense of morality and justice in such a way?

 

They're brainwashed.

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There is this puzzling Christian perspective, somewhat related to this thread:

 

Certain Christians think Jews don't believe Jesus [thus Jews (may) go to Hell.]

 

But if Christians really, really believe God is Trinity, Jews had been believing Jesus since the beginning, much earlier then the Christians.

 

So Christians, if you really, really believe God is Trinity, Jews can go to Heaven with you.

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I personally love the doctrine of hell.

 

Nothing like good, old fashioned terrorism to strengthen a "love relationship".

 

In fact, I think I'll use the same method to strengthen my relationship with my own kids. I'll tell them to blindly love and obey me, or else I will stuff them into our oven to roast at 500 degrees.

 

Ain't "love" grand?

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I personally love the doctrine of hell.

 

Nothing like good, old fashioned terrorism to strengthen a "love relationship".

 

Yeah, nothing like a suicide mind bomber to kick off a Jihad for Jesus.

:wacko_old:

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Yeah, so true, so true. Along with the Bible being borked beyond belief, the hell doctorine really shows the heart of what being a Xtian is about. FEAR.

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I was Lutheren (WI Synod). I was taught Jews were evil and going to hell too and few deserved more hell more richly becuase they denied Jesus.

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Madame_M,

 

Does this Ex-C.net forum have your leaving-testimony?

 

How did you join and exit from Messianic Judaism? If you don't mind telling us.

 

Thanks.

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Yours is a very good question, indeed... a classic. I think that most people have already answered your question.

 

Personally, my favorite excuses are the parent/child and and "free will" excuses.

 

If god is my parent and sends me to hell, then he's one sick S.O.B. I'd rather be adopted by someone else.

 

If god created me with the free will to be a skeptic, then he shouldn't get pissed off when I used a gift given to me by him. He should not have given me free will in the first place if this pisses him off so much. It's like buying your kid a drum set and then getting made when he plays it.

 

Anyway, hell, in my opinion, is a pychological tool that enables control by religious cults over the population in general. It's a load of B.S.

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Argh.

 

When I die, I hope by then I'll be married and have a family, and would get a secular humanist funeral, so as to avoid all the religious crap.

 

If god is my parent and sends me to hell, then he's one sick S.O.B. I'd rather be adopted by someone else.

 

Ditto.

 

If god created me with the free will to be a skeptic, then he shouldn't get pissed off when I used a gift given to me by him. He should not have given me free will in the first place if this pisses him off so much. It's like buying your kid a drum set and then getting made when he plays it.

 

Exactly.

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How can Christians believe that those who don't believe in Jesus go to hell? Seriously.

 

Who would follow a god that would send Jews from concentration camps to the eternal damnation of hell?

 

If a leader of a country tortures part of his own population purely for their beliefs we would rightly condemn him as a monster. However alot of christians say god does this and call him all loving.

 

The agrument that we condemn ourselves by sin and can only be saved by accepting Jesus doesn't make sense as punishment is still only based on belief.

 

How can christians say morality comes from a god that offend our sense of morality and justice in such a way?

simple, bible says so :) oh and that god is a higher power then us mere mortals, but a ruler of a country is mortal and can be killed and/or overthrown :/ meh, gotta love the bible argument eh? :D
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Just FYI-sorry for the typos in my above post. I just re-read it and realized the mistakes. I'm sure you all get the point though.

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Just FYI-sorry for the typos in my above post. I just re-read it and realized the mistakes. I'm sure you all get the point though.

 

BTW, you should be able to edit posts for a while after you make them. The option eventually goes away, though. I'd be really embarassed if I couldn't edit my posts.

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