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Goodbye Jesus

Why Do You Remain A Christian?


Antlerman

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No, I don't really have a pith helmet, sorry! However, one of my older gravatar pictures was this one where I'm wearing a skin of a "shado" or pomelo, a grapefruit-like fruit. That was inspired by my school-age son doing the same thing.

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Umm, that hat is... well, just bad.  Now you have to die.

 

It occurred to me later that I could have added that I Cor. is usually dated in the mid-50s, no?  So that's a generation after the events of Jesus' life are supposed to have happened.  People who say that Paul gives us authentic credal stuff that was formulated only three years after the (purported) empty tomb rely on many assumptions.  I haven't scanned the identities of scholars who maintain this, but I am guessing that they are biblical scholars employed at seminaries and the like rather than university academics.  Is that correct?

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Ficino, yes, almost correct about the Bible being the only source. We do also have the origin of Christianity, which is often brought out as an argument that there has to be something substantive behind it, and the testimony of Paul, which while still technically "Bible" is generally thought to be basically authentic. Paul doesn't say much about the historical Jesus, though, and his arguments are based on personal revelation and rather unusual (to us) argumentation from the Hebrew scriptures.

 

Citsonga and Hymenaeus, thanks for your detailed comments. I agree with what you say. I may not have explained well in my first post, but I don't see as persuasive any of the grounds of belief I bring up, I'm just stating them as the rather unsatisfactory kinds of answers I've received so far. Hymenaeus, you're right that I don't see liberal Christianity as an option; it seems the worst of both worlds from the angle of truth-seeking, though I'm sure there are lots of benefits, too. Thanks for the link to Geezer's thread, too.

 

I certainly understand the subjective reasons for continuing to be a Christian in some sense. In fact, I've told a few people half-jokingly that I'm not only a failed Christian but a failed atheist, because I don't know that I can or want to undergo such a radical shift in identity at this stage in life. I've also suggested to some friends that it might not be a good idea to start a deep exploration of the roots of one's faith past a certain age. If there is some transcendent value of truth, maybe we have to say, "go for it." If our brains/psyche are evolutionarily adapted to find a model of the world, find a community, and stick with that, then is it still necessarily the case that finding truth is in the best interest of the individual's mental health?

 

Regarding your last sentence, I think we always can be open to change. Is it necessary that you find truth? I dunno. I'm fat dumb and probably happily ignorant of a lot of things. Must you pick A or B? No. You might like some of A and some of B and some of the other letters as well. Humans are always an unfinished product, always evolvoing, always adopting something new, always shifting to some different persepective. Why lock your thinking down to a fixed frame of reference?

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

With respect to TexasFreethinker's post in the Lion's Den, I'm starting a part 2 version of his question which spawned probably the most read thread on this site with over 41,150 views, and 1,576 responses on 79 pages. It was finally closed due to sheer size, but it seems a question that obviously continued to spark many discussions from many responders. Therefore I'm reposting his original question here in the Colosseum to re-open the question for continued responses and discussions.

 

TexasFreethinker's original question:

 

 

In the spirit of understanding (rather than debating), I'd like to ask another question of the Christians who are members or guests of this site.

 

Why are you still a Christian, in spite of the evidence and logic to the contrary that's been presented here?

 

What I'm trying to understand is what maintains your belief - on what basis do you continue to believe?

 

If you take a close look at why you are a believer does it come down to reason, evidence, a gut feeling, do you think you are hearing directly from your god, etc? I think most Christians would have to admit that there are strong reasons to disbelieve, but there must be something that is keeping you on the side of belief. What is that, exactly?

 

I'm hoping for answers more explicit than "I have faith". I'm interested in why you have faith.

 

 

Hmm, this is a good question. I guess my biggest reason for believing would have to be creation. I haven't read all the posts on the subject, but from my POV, there is no stronger evidence than this. I have never been shown evidence to the contrary as far as creation, and I definitely don't believe we started as tiny cells, or that we came from apes. Everything in the universe, from the distance of the sun being just right, to the distance of the moon being just right, to trees giving off oxygen and taking in carbon dioxide, and us taking in oxygen and us giving off carbon dioxide, it all just fits to neatly for it to have been an accident.

But your reply does not answer the question..it isnt asking about a god it asks about the Christian God..how does "creation" prove the Bible inerrantly true regarding Jesus?

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Now you understand the problem. It doesn't at all.

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I'm still waiting for a refutation of the facts I posted...

 

dust bunnies are gathering

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Good luck getting a refutation, Ravenstar. I just went back and read your arguments more thoroughly than I had before, and you've done a superb job of demonstrating just how badly Christianity fails. You may eventually get a reply, but there is next to zero chance that it will actually refute your points.

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