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Goodbye Jesus

Why Do You Remain A Christian?


Antlerman

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I don't give all that much credence to Islamic hell or Viking hell. Do you know anything about Mohammed? I don't take Charles Manson's idea seriously. Neither do I take those of Mohammed. But when it comes to Jesus Christ, I do listen. ( Buddha is another person worth listening. )

 

Jesus isn't going to like it......that you like the buddha....your're in big trouble JayL Wendytwitch.gif

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( Buddha is another person worth listening. )

 

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." Buddha

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( Buddha is another person worth listening. )

 

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." Buddha

 

PWNED!!!!!!!!!!1!1!1!11!1!1!11

 

bow before your master, Jay!

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Admit it, Jay: You just can't bear the thought of not existing Forever and Ever, Amen.

 

Given the challenges of life and many disappointments, I like most people would welcome peaceful nothingness. The problem is always, what if the death is not the end. And given the incredible order/structure of our universe and the miracle of our existence, there is 'non zero' chance that the death is not the end. That our consciousness may survive physical death. If so, we have to think seriously about (once again) non zero chance of hell being real.

 

This is what i find so funny about intelligent design, you base everything you think and believe on assumptions. You substitute possibility, as fact.

 

Yes, the universe is complex, but there are an infinite number of possible prime movers for that complexity and its existence, yet you simply want to say "God," and not only God but YHWH. You do nothing to prove Gods existence but say he is the only "logical" outcome, do you not understand that the cause of complexity can be literally anything? It isnt a game of tug of war between irrationality and Jesus. We will probably find that we are not the only universe based on the Copernican principle and the laws of quantum mechanics, our "special universe," may just be a product of statistics. Another possibility is that, the laws of physics cannot arrange themselves in any other way except the way they are now, nothing defines that they must be something else. It is also unknown if the laws were different what kind of universe would exist, maybe it would be even more complex.

 

The laws of Physics are a relationship between particles in space, they aren't physical things. The order of matter in the universe such as galaxies, planets, stars and life, are a product of simplicity accumulating into complexity through the physical relationships of one another. No God is needed.

 

When dealing with consciousness, you are once again substituting possibility as fact. If we did this, then we would haft to accept things like, we may not exist, or our memories cannot be trusted. No consciousnesses has ever been found as a extra supernatural entity, however we have found it on the chemical processes of the brain.

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Right Troll,

 

What is the non zero chance that it is the Islam hell that is real? Or what if it turns out that the Viking hell is the real one and you burn in hell for eternity because you didn't die in a glorious battle? Maybe the Klingon hell is real and Star Trek was divinely inspired.

 

Go take your fear mongering somewhere else. We can think.

 

I don't give all that much credence to Islamic hell or Viking hell. Do you know anything about Mohammed? I don't take Charles Manson's idea seriously. Neither do I take those of Mohammed. But when it comes to Jesus Christ, I do listen. ( Buddha is another person worth listening. )

 

You dont take them seriously because you choose not too. if your going off this idea of, non-zero chance (what ever the fuck that means) then you must take them all just as serious as one another or you are intellectually deceiving yourself.

 

Also JayL please go over to my other topic thread a started, Ex Nihilo Nihil Fit, (Nothing springs from nothing), since you think the idea of a universe from nothing is so ridiculous you should have no problem right?

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( Buddha is another person worth listening. )

 

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." Buddha

 

Touché!

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( Buddha is another person worth listening. )

 

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." Buddha

 

 

I am telling you, Buddha is worth listening to. And also he is a great ethical teacher. Unlike Mohammed the scumbag. ( Somebody asked why I do not worry about Islamic hell. ) Actually I am close to 100% sure that Mohammed is in hell.

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( Buddha is another person worth listening. )

 

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." Buddha

 

 

I am telling you, Buddha is worth listening to. And also he is a great ethical teacher. Unlike Mohammed the scumbag.

Or jesus the pyschopath
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Right Troll,

 

What is the non zero chance that it is the Islam hell that is real? Or what if it turns out that the Viking hell is the real one and you burn in hell for eternity because you didn't die in a glorious battle? Maybe the Klingon hell is real and Star Trek was divinely inspired.

 

Go take your fear mongering somewhere else. We can think.

 

I don't give all that much credence to Islamic hell or Viking hell. Do you know anything about Mohammed? I don't take Charles Manson's idea seriously. Neither do I take those of Mohammed. But when it comes to Jesus Christ, I do listen. ( Buddha is another person worth listening. )

 

You dont take them seriously because you choose not too. if your going off this idea of, non-zero chance (what ever the fuck that means) then you must take them all just as serious as one another or you are intellectually deceiving yourself.

 

 

 

When this monkey man from Arkansas mentions 'intellectual deception' or the bunny goddess talk about 'intellectual integrity', I really don't have a good idea what they are talking about....

 

 

( Ok, I do admit I may not be as educated as they are... I just gotta work with what I have ... )

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I am telling you, Buddha is worth listening to. And also he is a great ethical teacher. Unlike Mohammed the scumbag.

Or jesus the pyschopath

 

 

psy·cho·path

   [sahy-kuh-path] psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

 

 

Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Even Thomas Jefferson the Bible hacker agreed with that. He considered Jesus to be the Greatest moral teacher he came across. And Jesus lived what he taught.

 

BUT I do agree about him being "extremely ego centric" in his claims about who He is... LOL

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Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person.

 

Prove it.

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Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person.

 

Prove it.

 

And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy.

 

Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character?

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Jay, wouldnt you agree that when you want to garner knowledge on a topic, the best thing to do is get info from people more educated than yourself? You've admitted many times you know far less than many of us on here but refuse to listen to anything we say.

 

Why is that?

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Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person.

 

Physically, he might have been by Iron Age standards. But what about his belief that eternal punishment is justice for finite "crimes."?

 

If you had a child, would you ever consider it moral to lock them up in the basement and torture them, even for a short time? For the "crime" of not loving you back?

 

It's highly immoral because it's harmful and cruel. If you cannot see these hell scare tactics for what they are, you're wasting your time on this site.

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Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person.

 

Physically, he might have been by Iron Age standards. But what about his belief that eternal punishment is justice for finite "crimes."?

 

If you had a child, would you ever consider it moral to lock them up in the basement and torture them, even for a short time? For the "crime" of not loving you back?

 

It's highly immoral because it's harmful and cruel. If you cannot see these hell scare tactics for what they are, you're wasting your time on this site.

 

I can't say if a Jesus of Nazareth even existed, let alone what specific traits he had or lacked. However a ghostwriter introduced throught crime into the Bible gospel.

 

 

An all knowing God watching you all the time and monitoring you for thought crime waiting to punish with hell is not moral. I believe Christopher Hitchens compared it to being worse than living in North Korea.

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Right Troll,

 

What is the non zero chance that it is the Islam hell that is real? Or what if it turns out that the Viking hell is the real one and you burn in hell for eternity because you didn't die in a glorious battle? Maybe the Klingon hell is real and Star Trek was divinely inspired.

 

Go take your fear mongering somewhere else. We can think.

 

I don't give all that much credence to Islamic hell or Viking hell. Do you know anything about Mohammed? I don't take Charles Manson's idea seriously. Neither do I take those of Mohammed. But when it comes to Jesus Christ, I do listen. ( Buddha is another person worth listening. )

 

You dont take them seriously because you choose not too. if your going off this idea of, non-zero chance (what ever the fuck that means) then you must take them all just as serious as one another or you are intellectually deceiving yourself.

 

 

 

When this monkey man from Arkansas mentions 'intellectual deception' or the bunny goddess talk about 'intellectual integrity', I really don't have a good idea what they are talking about....

 

 

( Ok, I do admit I may not be as educated as they are... I just gotta work with what I have ... )

 

Did you just call me a monkey man?GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

 

I said this because you seem to treat possibility as reality in your arguments. Then you pick and choose what arguments you want to accept even though they're all just as viable as one another.

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Right Troll,

 

What is the non zero chance that it is the Islam hell that is real? Or what if it turns out that the Viking hell is the real one and you burn in hell for eternity because you didn't die in a glorious battle? Maybe the Klingon hell is real and Star Trek was divinely inspired.

 

Go take your fear mongering somewhere else. We can think.

 

I don't give all that much credence to Islamic hell or Viking hell. Do you know anything about Mohammed? I don't take Charles Manson's idea seriously. Neither do I take those of Mohammed. But when it comes to Jesus Christ, I do listen. ( Buddha is another person worth listening. )

 

You dont take them seriously because you choose not too. if your going off this idea of, non-zero chance (what ever the fuck that means) then you must take them all just as serious as one another or you are intellectually deceiving yourself.

 

 

 

When this monkey man from Arkansas mentions 'intellectual deception' or the bunny goddess talk about 'intellectual integrity', I really don't have a good idea what they are talking about....

 

 

( Ok, I do admit I may not be as educated as they are... I just gotta work with what I have ... )

 

Did you just call me a monkey man?GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

 

I said this because you seem to treat possibility as reality in your arguments. Then you pick and choose what arguments you want to accept even though they're all just as viable as one another.

 

At first I thought he was talking to me.

 

And I was about to agree.

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Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Even Thomas Jefferson the Bible hacker agreed with that. He considered Jesus to be the Greatest moral teacher he came across. And Jesus lived what he taught.

Is it moral to hide the truth? I agree that he wasn't a psychopath, but was he moral if he was intentionally hiding the truth? (He said so himself--if you want to believe the stories.)

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Jay, first you have to prove that Jesus even existed in the form posited by the New Testament's anonymous ghostwriters. You can't, because there is no proof of a single particular about his life. Then you have to prove that he said a single thing attributed to him--much less did a single such thing. Alas, nothing there either. What I can definitively say is that the myth of Jesus is certainly not moral, much less noteworthy.

 

I mean, let's get down to brass tacks here. The eternal god of the whole universe decides to incarnate himself. Ta da! "He's got his daddy's eyes" achievement unlocked. It would have been so easy, so easy to just prove who he was, come right out and explain what the theology was and what God wanted and how to live. He could have addressed the major issues of the day and provided clear guidelines for addressing social ills. He could have ended slavery, freed women from being treated as property, and given us life-saving medical advice that could have saved millions, even billions of people. At the very least he could have provided clear proof of his identity and ensured that future generations would have access to a trustworthy, reliable account of his words and deeds, and he could have set up protections ensuring his future church didn't convert people by the sword and use his name as justification for torture and brutal killings.

 

But apparently that'd be "interfering" with our "free will," as if incarnating himself wasn't interference enough. NONE of that is the case. Not only do we have no idea if he even existed, but we have some compelling evidence suggesting there's no way in hell he could have existed. The sermons Christians think are so staggeringly original and groundbreaking, aren't. "Be nice to people" isn't very new, folks. The main thing he really did was combine Judaism with a kind of Eastern mysticism, and the Jews of his day thought it was total hogwash. He made a religion that was just demanding enough to compel obedience, but not so demanding it'd turn newcomers off. And his ghostwriters put into motion a religion that is abusive and controlling.

 

Sorry... none of that sounds moral to me. I think that given unlimited power, I'd have made a way better messiah than this mythical "Jesus" ever did.

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Guest Valk0010

I am telling you, Buddha is worth listening to. And also he is a great ethical teacher. Unlike Mohammed the scumbag.

Or jesus the pyschopath

 

 

psy·cho·path

   [sahy-kuh-path] psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

 

 

Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Even Thomas Jefferson the Bible hacker agreed with that. He considered Jesus to be the Greatest moral teacher he came across. And Jesus lived what he taught.

 

BUT I do agree about him being "extremely ego centric" in his claims about who He is... LOL

hyperbole

 

Btw. if jesus was god, he was narcissist. Amoral behavior. How about creating a world knowing that people would burn in hell for eternity.

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Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Even Thomas Jefferson the Bible hacker agreed with that. He considered Jesus to be the Greatest moral teacher he came across. And Jesus lived what he taught.

Is it moral to hide the truth? I agree that he wasn't a psychopath, but was he moral if he was intentionally hiding the truth? (He said so himself--if you want to believe the stories.)

 

Jesus talked about Satan, the enemy of God, more than any other prophets in the Old Testament. In one parable he talked about Satan spreading evil seeds ( weed ) in his Kingdom. He wants truths to be hidden from 'children of darkness' because he saw himself in a huge spiritual battle.

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Btw. if jesus was god, he was narcissist. Amoral behavior. How about creating a world knowing that people would burn in hell for eternity.

 

It was probably not intentional. However if you do buy into existence of the hell, you should know that God provided a great way out - the Cross of Jesus Christ. Thru the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, your sins are fully forgiven and in effect, nobody needs to go to hell.

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Jay, first you have to prove that Jesus even existed in the form posited by the New Testament's anonymous ghostwriters. You can't, because there is no proof of a single particular about his life. Then you have to prove that he said a single thing attributed to him--much less did a single such thing. Alas, nothing there either. What I can definitively say is that the myth of Jesus is certainly not moral, much less noteworthy.

 

I mean, let's get down to brass tacks here. The eternal god of the whole universe decides to incarnate himself. Ta da! "He's got his daddy's eyes" achievement unlocked. It would have been so easy, so easy to just prove who he was, come right out and explain what the theology was and what God wanted and how to live. He could have addressed the major issues of the day and provided clear guidelines for addressing social ills. He could have ended slavery, freed women from being treated as property, and given us life-saving medical advice that could have saved millions, even billions of people. At the very least he could have provided clear proof of his identity and ensured that future generations would have access to a trustworthy, reliable account of his words and deeds, and he could have set up protections ensuring his future church didn't convert people by the sword and use his name as justification for torture and brutal killings.

 

But apparently that'd be "interfering" with our "free will," as if incarnating himself wasn't interference enough. NONE of that is the case. Not only do we have no idea if he even existed, but we have some compelling evidence suggesting there's no way in hell he could have existed. The sermons Christians think are so staggeringly original and groundbreaking, aren't. "Be nice to people" isn't very new, folks. The main thing he really did was combine Judaism with a kind of Eastern mysticism, and the Jews of his day thought it was total hogwash. He made a religion that was just demanding enough to compel obedience, but not so demanding it'd turn newcomers off. And his ghostwriters put into motion a religion that is abusive and controlling.

 

Sorry... none of that sounds moral to me. I think that given unlimited power, I'd have made a way better messiah than this mythical "Jesus" ever did.

 

 

I would say that your understanding of Christianity, esp. the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is quite lacking.

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I said this because you seem to treat possibility as reality in your arguments. Then you pick and choose what arguments you want to accept even though they're all just as viable as one another.

 

This sort of post is way too abstract for my taste. I have no idea what intellectual integrity is anyway.

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An all knowing God watching you all the time and monitoring you for thought crime waiting to punish with hell is not moral. I believe Christopher Hitchens compared it to being worse than living in North Korea.

 

 

According to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, God is not out to 'punish thought crimes'. He is not even out to punish real physical crimes you may commit. All your sins have been transferred over to Jesus Christ on the cross and you are fully forgiven as far as God is concerned.

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