Akheia Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Oh, it's not like Christians don't have the examples right in front of them. The Bible is nothing but one long argument from authority. Christians borrow their deity's authority constantly when they presume to speak for him and tell others how to live their lives. I really think that's why Christians parrot their leaders so much and have so few critical thinking skills. They're taught early on in their religious lives that this is how things get done around here. When Jay parrots some bullshit about "Jesus was so moral" without really applying any critical thinking to it (ie, no proof Jesus existed, much less said anything that made it into the NT, and he's certainly not more moral of a fictional character than, say, Harry Potter is), and we call him on it, he has nowhere else to go but to splutter "but... but... the BIBLE says it!" and hope that the authority carries. It doesn't, and then he's got nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I was just being modest. I don't think there are too many people here more educated than I am. ( In terms of formal degrees. ) Formal degrees are bullshit. Besides, there are people who has talked to on this forum who are scholars, i.e. degrees in theology. But JayL dismissed their arguments just as much. In the end, that doesn't make any difference. And also, educated people run a higher risk of "information blindness." Too much information and thought blocks their ability to really understand some areas while understanding others very well. Which one they understand or not... hard to tell, because they will express confidence just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 They say that smart people are more likely to fall for cons, anyway--they're so confident in their intelligence that they end up falling for the stupidest damn shit. That's why peer review is so important and why everybody but fundagelicals respects its mothafuckin authoriTIE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeCycle Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 This thread serves as great proof that Christians believe it because they need to believe it. Not because it makes any sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Prove it. And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character? Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them. He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar. I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'. His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 This thread serves as great proof that Christians believe it because they need to believe it. Not because it makes any sense at all. The difference could be personal experiences with God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 This thread serves as great proof that Christians believe it because they need to believe it. Not because it makes any sense at all. The difference could be personal experiences with God. OR, delusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Prove it. And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character? Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them. He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar. I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'. His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'. Obscurantism is the same as deception, no matter how you argue for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 They say that smart people are more likely to fall for cons, anyway--they're so confident in their intelligence that they end up falling for the stupidest damn shit. That's why peer review is so important and why everybody but fundagelicals respects its mothafuckin authoriTIE. Well, peer review is a good idea. In publishing scientific papers,' peers' are fellow scientists. In writing about Christian faith, our peers are fellow believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Prove it. And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character? Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them. He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar. I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'. His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'. you LIE. thats exactly what the text says. He spoke in parables so that they would hear but not understand blah blah blah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 They say that smart people are more likely to fall for cons, anyway--they're so confident in their intelligence that they end up falling for the stupidest damn shit. That's why peer review is so important and why everybody but fundagelicals respects its mothafuckin authoriTIE. Well, peer review is a good idea. In publishing scientific papers,' peers' are fellow scientists. In writing about Christian faith, our peers are fellow believers. dipshits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted August 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 15, 2012 Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Prove it. And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character? Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them. He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar. I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'. His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'. Please provide the correct interpretation of the following then: Mark 4 10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that, “‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Prove it. And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character? Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them. He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar. I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'. His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'. Obscurantism is the same as deception, no matter how you argue for it. I thought my argument was fairly clear?? Do you have any questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 According to the writer of fiction "Mark", Jesus didnt WANT outsiders to be saved. Thats a bitch move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Prove it. And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character? Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them. He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar. I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'. His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'. Obscurantism is the same as deception, no matter how you argue for it. I thought my argument was fairly clear?? Do you have any questions? http://www.merriam-w...ry/obscurantism 1 : opposition to the spread of knowledge : a policy of withholding knowledge from the general public 2 a : a style (as in literature or art) characterized by deliberate vagueness or abstruseness b : an act or instance of obscurantism On something amounting to our eternal souls,obscurantism amounts to deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Prove it. And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character? Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them. He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar. I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'. His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'. you LIE. thats exactly what the text says. He spoke in parables so that they would hear but not understand blah blah blah... if the goal was to prevent understanding, why speak at all? Does this make sense to you?? He did not have to teach anything. And many parables were quite simple to understand. They made great illustrations about what he is teaching. Even you could understand the main points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Prove it. And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character? Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them. He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar. I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'. His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'. Obscurantism is the same as deception, no matter how you argue for it. I thought my argument was fairly clear?? Do you have any questions? http://www.merriam-w...ry/obscurantism 1 : opposition to the spread of knowledge : a policy of withholding knowledge from the general public 2 a : a style (as in literature or art) characterized by deliberate vagueness or abstruseness b : an act or instance of obscurantism On something amounting to our eternal souls,obscurantism amounts to deception. No matter what you call it, parables of Jesus were not deceptions. Deceive about what?? Parables were what they were - simple, pictorial illustrations about his teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Prove it. And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character? Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them. He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar. I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'. His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'. you LIE. thats exactly what the text says. He spoke in parables so that they would hear but not understand blah blah blah... if the goal was to prevent understanding, why speak at all? Does this make sense to you?? He did not have to teach anything. And many parables were quite simple to understand. They made great illustrations about what he is teaching. Even you could understand the main points. Then why not just be clear smart one?????? People didn't get it, sometimes even the apostles didn't get it. That is why they had all these bunch of private times where jesus explained what he meant. Why not just say what what he meant to everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person. Prove it. And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character? Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them. He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar. I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'. His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'. you LIE. thats exactly what the text says. He spoke in parables so that they would hear but not understand blah blah blah... if the goal was to prevent understanding, why speak at all? Does this make sense to you?? He did not have to teach anything. And many parables were quite simple to understand. They made great illustrations about what he is teaching. Even you could understand the main points. Youre a funny guy, you. "Even me". Youre mythical god man never even existed. Exactly why Paul never mentions a single fucking instance of earthly information about him. Nazareth, virgin birth, road trip to egypt, blah blah blah....its all fiction. Historicized to garner dipshit believers like we used to be, and you currently are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 New International Version (©1984) He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.' Luke 8:10 THAT IS WHAT IS CALLED BEING DECEPTIVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 According to the writer of fiction "Mark", Jesus didnt WANT outsiders to be saved. Thats a bitch move. Once again, if his goal is to prevent truth so that people would not get saved, why teach anything?? Why doesn't he just keep quiet. Do you see my points?? These parables were spoken to communicate truths to people. Now they may be in very humble and familiar illustrations but people will remember them better that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 According to the writer of fiction "Mark", Jesus didnt WANT outsiders to be saved. Thats a bitch move. Once again, if his goal is to prevent truth so that people would not get saved, why teach anything?? Why doesn't he just keep quiet. Do you see my points?? These parables were spoken to communicate truths to people. Now they may be in very humble and familiar illustrations but people will remember them better that way. “This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them; but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them.” John 10:6 Deception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 The point I am trying to make is that if jesus cared about truth, he would be crystal clear. And who have spent more effort selling people other then his apostles on the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 GAwd, you're thick. the parables dont mean shit anyway. All he talks about is being a 'non-dick'. It was paul that came up with all the substitutionary atonement crap. Paul/John and the the synoptic Jesus character are at total odds with each other. Paul and John have Jesus as Batman x Superman on steroids, the synoptical jesus is an ordinary wise-guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 comparatively. outside of the miracles of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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