Why Do You Remain A Christian?

[JayL]

Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person.

 

Prove it.

 

And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy.

 

Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character?

 

 

Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them.

He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar.

 

I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'.

 

His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'.

 

you LIE. thats exactly what the text says. He spoke in parables so that they would hear but not understand blah blah blah...

 

 

if the goal was to prevent understanding, why speak at all? Does this make sense to you?? He did not have to teach anything. And many parables were quite simple to understand. They made great illustrations about what he is teaching. Even you could understand the main points.

Then why not just be clear smart one??????

 

People didn't get it, sometimes even the apostles didn't get it. That is why they had all these bunch of private times where jesus explained what he meant.

 

Why not just say what what he meant to everyone?

 

 

Let me illustrate to you in this way. A parable, if you please. I am trying to teach you the truths of Quantum Mechanics. But unfortunately you do not have a background in partial differential equation. So i cannot prove the theory mathematically nor give you the meat of the theory. So I draw some simple diagram and try to illustrate the conclusion of this highly mathematical theory. But I had the truths out in the open.

 

Now I have some graduate students. They have been working in my research group for 3 years and they are much further along in their study of mathematics. For them, I can talk about mathematical details and they in turn can become college teachers and spread the truths of Quantum mechanics.

 

And now this Ouroborus fella shows up and accuse me teaching things 'in secret' and giving only partial truths. And I say, hey you are mistaken, my friend. Soon my grad students would be well prepared to teach and they WILL educate everyone about mathematical foundation of QM.

 

Why not teach everything to everyone?? Well, did they make commitment to work with me for 3 years? To make progress in higher mathematics?? Otherwise you cannot even follow what I am trying to teach!!!

 

 

Anyhow, I hope this PARABLE helps!

[JayL]

According to the writer of fiction "Mark", Jesus didnt WANT outsiders to be saved.

 

Thats a bitch move.

 

Once again, if his goal is to prevent truth so that people would not get saved, why teach anything?? Why doesn't he just keep quiet.

 

Do you see my points??

 

These parables were spoken to communicate truths to people. Now they may be in very humble and familiar illustrations but people will remember them better that way.

 

“This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them; but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them.” John 10:6

 

Deception

 

 

It is not deception, my friend. They could not even understand simple parables. Can they ever understand the underlying truths?? But you gotta start somewhere!

[Guest Valk0010]

Jesus of Nazareth was an extremely moral person.

 

Prove it.

 

And name-dropping is not proof. Argument from authority is a logical fallacy.

 

Jeffersons take on Jesus is likely more accurate than that of the gospels, but even just looking at the gospel accounts, what displays his exceptional moral character?

 

 

Nobody could accuse him of any wrong doing - except the 'blasphemous claim' that he is the Messiah, the Son of Living God. He spent his 3 years long ministry healing the sick, feeding the poor, and teaching people about God who loves them.

He said he talked in parables to hide the truth, and he said later to Sanhedrin that he never hid anything. Jesus was a liar.

 

I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'.

 

His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'.

 

you LIE. thats exactly what the text says. He spoke in parables so that they would hear but not understand blah blah blah...

 

 

if the goal was to prevent understanding, why speak at all? Does this make sense to you?? He did not have to teach anything. And many parables were quite simple to understand. They made great illustrations about what he is teaching. Even you could understand the main points.

Then why not just be clear smart one??????

 

People didn't get it, sometimes even the apostles didn't get it. That is why they had all these bunch of private times where jesus explained what he meant.

 

Why not just say what what he meant to everyone?

 

 

Let me illustrate to you in this way. A parable, if you please. I am trying to teach you the truths of Quantum Mechanics. But unfortunately you do not have a background in partial differential equation. So i cannot prove the theory mathematically nor give you the meat of the theory. So I draw some simple diagram and try to illustrate the conclusion of this highly mathematical theory. But I had the truths out in the open.

 

Now I have some graduate students. They have been working in my research group for 3 years and they are much further along in their study of mathematics. For them, I can talk about mathematical details and they in turn can become college teachers and spread the truths of Quantum mechanics.

 

And now this Ouroborus fella shows up and accuse me teaching things 'in secret' and giving only partial truths. And I say, hey you are mistaken, my friend. Soon my grad students would be well prepared to teach and they WILL educate everyone about mathematical foundation of QM.

 

Why not teach everything to everyone?? Well, did they make commitment to work with me for 3 years? To make progress in higher mathematics?? Otherwise you cannot even follow what I am trying to teach!!!

 

 

Anyhow, I hope this PARABLE helps!

False analogy.

[JayL]

GAwd, you're thick. the parables dont mean shit anyway. All he talks about is being a 'non-dick'. It was paul that came up with all the substitutionary atonement crap. Paul/John and the the synoptic Jesus character are at total odds with each other. Paul and John have Jesus as Batman x Superman on steroids, the synoptical jesus is an ordinary wise-guy.

 

 

Wow, That is so intelligent.

[Guest Valk0010]

According to the writer of fiction "Mark", Jesus didnt WANT outsiders to be saved.

 

Thats a bitch move.

 

Once again, if his goal is to prevent truth so that people would not get saved, why teach anything?? Why doesn't he just keep quiet.

 

Do you see my points??

 

These parables were spoken to communicate truths to people. Now they may be in very humble and familiar illustrations but people will remember them better that way.

 

“This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them; but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them.” John 10:6

 

Deception

 

 

It is not deception, my friend. They could not even understand simple parables. Can they ever understand the underlying truths?? But you gotta start somewhere!

Jesus from what I remember would take the time to explain the parables when the apostles didn't get it. If he actually cared about anything more then preserving his little man made cult and wanted all to be saved like I believe iirc, peter talks about then he would have explained the parables to everybody like he did the apostles.

[mcdaddy]

Prove he even existed.

[JayL]

 

 

Let me illustrate to you in this way. A parable, if you please. I am trying to teach you the truths of Quantum Mechanics. But unfortunately you do not have a background in partial differential equation. So i cannot prove the theory mathematically nor give you the meat of the theory. So I draw some simple diagram and try to illustrate the conclusion of this highly mathematical theory. But I had the truths out in the open.

 

Now I have some graduate students. They have been working in my research group for 3 years and they are much further along in their study of mathematics. For them, I can talk about mathematical details and they in turn can become college teachers and spread the truths of Quantum mechanics.

 

And now this Ouroborus fella shows up and accuse me teaching things 'in secret' and giving only partial truths. And I say, hey you are mistaken, my friend. Soon my grad students would be well prepared to teach and they WILL educate everyone about mathematical foundation of QM.

 

Why not teach everything to everyone?? Well, did they make commitment to work with me for 3 years? To make progress in higher mathematics?? Otherwise you cannot even follow what I am trying to teach!!!

 

 

Anyhow, I hope this PARABLE helps!

False analogy.

 

 

You see, Omni, some people will get my parable. Obviously you are a bit slow.

[Guest Valk0010]

Let me illustrate to you in this way. A parable, if you please. I am trying to teach you the truths of Quantum Mechanics. But unfortunately you do not have a background in partial differential equation. So i cannot prove the theory mathematically nor give you the meat of the theory. So I draw some simple diagram and try to illustrate the conclusion of this highly mathematical theory. But I had the truths out in the open.

 

Now I have some graduate students. They have been working in my research group for 3 years and they are much further along in their study of mathematics. For them, I can talk about mathematical details and they in turn can become college teachers and spread the truths of Quantum mechanics.

 

And now this Ouroborus fella shows up and accuse me teaching things 'in secret' and giving only partial truths. And I say, hey you are mistaken, my friend. Soon my grad students would be well prepared to teach and they WILL educate everyone about mathematical foundation of QM.

 

Why not teach everything to everyone?? Well, did they make commitment to work with me for 3 years? To make progress in higher mathematics?? Otherwise you cannot even follow what I am trying to teach!!!

 

 

Anyhow, I hope this PARABLE helps!

False analogy.

 

 

You see, Omni, some people will get my parable. Obviously you are a bit slow.

troll alert

 

Anyway, quantum mechanics is not my eternal soul so its a false analogy for that reason.

[Guest Valk0010]

Prove he even existed.

And if you even get that far, prove his miracles are historically reliable!

[mcdaddy]

Its no different than parables by Buddha, Krishna, and on and on. We have zero evidence any of these people actually existed. Everything attributed to them could have been thought up by ghostwriters. If you're god, do you appear in a time and place where it will be impossible, centuries later, to even prove your existence? And make your story include mythical elements of scores of other religious tales circulating at the time? Great move, all knowing diety.

[JayL]

Let me illustrate to you in this way. A parable, if you please. I am trying to teach you the truths of Quantum Mechanics. But unfortunately you do not have a background in partial differential equation. So i cannot prove the theory mathematically nor give you the meat of the theory. So I draw some simple diagram and try to illustrate the conclusion of this highly mathematical theory. But I had the truths out in the open.

 

Now I have some graduate students. They have been working in my research group for 3 years and they are much further along in their study of mathematics. For them, I can talk about mathematical details and they in turn can become college teachers and spread the truths of Quantum mechanics.

 

And now this Ouroborus fella shows up and accuse me teaching things 'in secret' and giving only partial truths. And I say, hey you are mistaken, my friend. Soon my grad students would be well prepared to teach and they WILL educate everyone about mathematical foundation of QM.

 

Why not teach everything to everyone?? Well, did they make commitment to work with me for 3 years? To make progress in higher mathematics?? Otherwise you cannot even follow what I am trying to teach!!!

 

 

Anyhow, I hope this PARABLE helps!

False analogy.

 

 

You see, Omni, some people will get my parable. Obviously you are a bit slow.

troll alert

 

Anyway, quantum mechanics is not my eternal soul so its a false analogy for that reason.

 

 

 

 

Jesus also said, 'What was said in private ( like his teaching to apostles ) will be shouted in public from the rooftop'. When apostles were fully ready after the day of Pentecost, they were shouting truths from the rooftop.

[LifeCycle]

This thread serves as great proof that Christians believe it because they need to believe it. Not because it makes any sense at all.

 

The difference could be personal experiences with God.

 

Or how delusional a person is considering that a personal experience with God undoes the idea that God does not show favoritism as Romans 2:11 says.

[JayL]

This thread serves as great proof that Christians believe it because they need to believe it. Not because it makes any sense at all.

 

The difference could be personal experiences with God.

 

Or how delusional a person is considering that a personal experience with God undoes the idea that God does not show favoritism as Romans 2:11 says.

 

Those who seek shall find. I believe if you seek God seriously, you too will have a direct experience with God.

[mcdaddy]

This thread serves as great proof that Christians believe it because they need to believe it. Not because it makes any sense at all.

 

The difference could be personal experiences with God.

 

Or how delusional a person is considering that a personal experience with God undoes the idea that God does not show favoritism as Romans 2:11 says.

 

Those who seek shall find. I believe if you seek God seriously, you too will have a direct experience with God.

 

This site is proof of the opposite.

[Guest Valk0010]

Let me illustrate to you in this way. A parable, if you please. I am trying to teach you the truths of Quantum Mechanics. But unfortunately you do not have a background in partial differential equation. So i cannot prove the theory mathematically nor give you the meat of the theory. So I draw some simple diagram and try to illustrate the conclusion of this highly mathematical theory. But I had the truths out in the open.

 

Now I have some graduate students. They have been working in my research group for 3 years and they are much further along in their study of mathematics. For them, I can talk about mathematical details and they in turn can become college teachers and spread the truths of Quantum mechanics.

 

And now this Ouroborus fella shows up and accuse me teaching things 'in secret' and giving only partial truths. And I say, hey you are mistaken, my friend. Soon my grad students would be well prepared to teach and they WILL educate everyone about mathematical foundation of QM.

 

Why not teach everything to everyone?? Well, did they make commitment to work with me for 3 years? To make progress in higher mathematics?? Otherwise you cannot even follow what I am trying to teach!!!

 

 

Anyhow, I hope this PARABLE helps!

False analogy.

 

 

You see, Omni, some people will get my parable. Obviously you are a bit slow.

troll alert

 

Anyway, quantum mechanics is not my eternal soul so its a false analogy for that reason.

 

 

 

 

Jesus also said, 'What was said in private ( like his teaching to apostles ) will be shouted in public from the rooftop'. When apostles were fully ready after the day of Pentecost, they were shouting truths from the rooftop.

Not good enough. Eternal hell, and waiting about 3 years. Depending on who you read they were 620 or 120 christians at pentacost. Yeah sure after pentacost several thousand converted. But don't you think it would have been most logical, to save as many people as you could have as fast as you can? I think so.

[mcdaddy]

Let me illustrate to you in this way. A parable, if you please. I am trying to teach you the truths of Quantum Mechanics. But unfortunately you do not have a background in partial differential equation. So i cannot prove the theory mathematically nor give you the meat of the theory. So I draw some simple diagram and try to illustrate the conclusion of this highly mathematical theory. But I had the truths out in the open.

 

Now I have some graduate students. They have been working in my research group for 3 years and they are much further along in their study of mathematics. For them, I can talk about mathematical details and they in turn can become college teachers and spread the truths of Quantum mechanics.

 

And now this Ouroborus fella shows up and accuse me teaching things 'in secret' and giving only partial truths. And I say, hey you are mistaken, my friend. Soon my grad students would be well prepared to teach and they WILL educate everyone about mathematical foundation of QM.

 

Why not teach everything to everyone?? Well, did they make commitment to work with me for 3 years? To make progress in higher mathematics?? Otherwise you cannot even follow what I am trying to teach!!!

 

 

Anyhow, I hope this PARABLE helps!

False analogy.

 

 

You see, Omni, some people will get my parable. Obviously you are a bit slow.

troll alert

 

Anyway, quantum mechanics is not my eternal soul so its a false analogy for that reason.

 

 

 

 

Jesus also said, 'What was said in private ( like his teaching to apostles ) will be shouted in public from the rooftop'. When apostles were fully ready after the day of Pentecost, they were shouting truths from the rooftop.

Not good enough. Eternal hell, and waiting about 3 years. Depending on who you read they were 620 or 120 christians at pentacost. Yeah sure after pentacost several thousand converted. But don't you think it would have been most logical, to save as many people as you could have as fast as you can? I think so.

 

Point is moot.

 

It's 90% fiction, with a few historical facts thrown in to make it appear historical.

 

Just like EVERY. OTHER. RELIGION.

[LifeCycle]

This thread serves as great proof that Christians believe it because they need to believe it. Not because it makes any sense at all.

 

The difference could be personal experiences with God.

 

Or how delusional a person is considering that a personal experience with God undoes the idea that God does not show favoritism as Romans 2:11 says.

 

Those who seek shall find. I believe if you seek God seriously, you too will have a direct experience with God.

 

I don't believe that because I sincerely sought God for 28 years and not once did I have a "God" experience.

 

He just didn't love me as much as you. And since he knows everything, he knew his inaction would contribute to my lack of belief and yet continued in his silence.

 

It doesn't say much for him.

[JayL]

 

I don't believe that because I sincerely sought God for 28 years and not once did I have a "God" experience.

 

He just didn't love me as much as you. And since he knows everything, he knew his inaction would contribute to my lack of belief and yet continued in his silence.

 

It doesn't say much for him.

 

 

28 years is certainly very long time. I started to attend a Baptist church in high school. But in college, I became an atheist and a follower of Nietsche and Sartre. I once again started to attend a church while working then I lost interest in Christianity once again because my life was not working. 7 years later I was in a personal crisis and had an encounter with God that changed my life. I was born again and I became a Christian believer. The entire time span was about 24 years. But I was NOT seeking God for much of that time.

 

I do have to ask you - only if you willing to open up personal details - WHY did you seek God for 28 years??

[mymistake]

Let me illustrate to you in this way. A parable, if you please. I am trying to teach you the truths of Quantum Mechanics. But unfortunately you do not have a background in partial differential equation. So i cannot prove the theory mathematically nor give you the meat of the theory. So I draw some simple diagram and try to illustrate the conclusion of this highly mathematical theory. But I had the truths out in the open.

 

Now I have some graduate students. They have been working in my research group for 3 years and they are much further along in their study of mathematics. For them, I can talk about mathematical details and they in turn can become college teachers and spread the truths of Quantum mechanics.

 

And now this Ouroborus fella shows up and accuse me teaching things 'in secret' and giving only partial truths. And I say, hey you are mistaken, my friend. Soon my grad students would be well prepared to teach and they WILL educate everyone about mathematical foundation of QM.

 

Why not teach everything to everyone?? Well, did they make commitment to work with me for 3 years? To make progress in higher mathematics?? Otherwise you cannot even follow what I am trying to teach!!!

 

 

Anyhow, I hope this PARABLE helps!

False analogy.

 

 

You see, Omni, some people will get my parable. Obviously you are a bit slow.

troll alert

 

Anyway, quantum mechanics is not my eternal soul so its a false analogy for that reason.

 

 

 

 

Jesus also said, 'What was said in private ( like his teaching to apostles ) will be shouted in public from the rooftop'. When apostles were fully ready after the day of Pentecost, they were shouting truths from the rooftop.

 

 

Ah so you figured out on your own why your own parable fails.

 

 

First the teaching is too complicated for the general public (teach only to advance grad students) then suddenly a short time later the exact same teaching it taught to everyone.

 

I call bullshit.

[centauri]

According to the writer of fiction "Mark", Jesus didnt WANT outsiders to be saved.

 

Thats a bitch move.

 

Once again, if his goal is to prevent truth so that people would not get saved, why teach anything?? Why doesn't he just keep quiet.

 

Do you see my points??

 

These parables were spoken to communicate truths to people. Now they may be in very humble and familiar illustrations but people will remember them better that way.

The New Testament writer was attempting to manufacture a prophecy fulfillment for Jesus and that's why those words were shoved in his mouth.

The parables were spoken to keep some people confused.

That's what the text clearly says.

It also says that the disciples had to have the meaning explained to them by Jesus.

This was done in private, where the "secrets" were revealed by Jesus.

The actual purpose of the parables has nothing to do with Jesus, it's from the Book of Isaiah, where God instructs Isaiah.

[Ouroboros]

I believe you misunderstand the situation. Suppose your point is correct - that Jesus spoke in parables to 'hide the truth'. Does this make sense to you. If his goal is to hide the truth, why speak at all? Why doesn't he talk about weather instead? Why teach at all - IF his goal was to 'hide the truth'.

Because he said the truth was only given to some, and not the jews.

 

His goal behind speaking in parables was NOT what you think. It was not so he can 'hide the truth'.

 

Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. . . .Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. . . . lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

And then he said he never hid anything when he talked later in front of the Sanhedrin. (Can't find the verse right now. Fuck, fuck, double, tripple fuck, I can't get one second alone to try to answer a post without my family and neighbors need my attention. I'll be back about which verse it is.)

[Ouroboros]

According to the writer of fiction "Mark", Jesus didnt WANT outsiders to be saved.

 

Thats a bitch move.

 

Once again, if his goal is to prevent truth so that people would not get saved, why teach anything?? Why doesn't he just keep quiet.

Since you're educated, you know about addressing the audience. His parables was to hide the truth from the Jews but show them to non-Jews. But still... he hid them from the Jews.

 

But you're too educated to get that. Maybe you didn't read composition in school...

 

Do you see my points??

It' s not a point since you don't get it, and you make a bad argument.

 

These parables were spoken to communicate truths to people. Now they may be in very humble and familiar illustrations but people will remember them better that way.

But only truths to some... some, not all. Not the ones that were not supposed to hear them. In other words, he hid them from some... and hiding the truth to one person is enough to be making a white lie.

[Ouroboros]

Those who seek shall find. I believe if you seek God seriously, you too will have a direct experience with God.

Me, my wife, my 5 kids, two of my brothers, ... all lost their faith in your fictitious God. Hmm... You have no clue. But that's because you're so smart.

[Ouroboros]

I do have to ask you - only if you willing to open up personal details - WHY did you seek God for 28 years??

I looked for God from age of 7 till age of 38. Still waiting for him to show up.

 

I was deadly serious about my faith. It didn't help.

[JayL]

According to the writer of fiction "Mark", Jesus didnt WANT outsiders to be saved.

 

Thats a bitch move.

 

Once again, if his goal is to prevent truth so that people would not get saved, why teach anything?? Why doesn't he just keep quiet.

Since you're educated, you know about addressing the audience. His parables was to hide the truth from the Jews but show them to non-Jews. But still... he hid them from the Jews.

 

But you're too educated to get that. Maybe you didn't read composition in school...

 

 

Almost everyone Jesus addressed and taught ( including his 12 apostles ) were Jews.