Something that pisses me off.

[nightflight]

It doesn't affect ME personally. I dont' care if they think they are chosen. But I believe it hurts society...because while I don't believe in gods it doesn' t mean a large majority of people past and present don't. Running around saying you are the chosen people breeds contempt.

 

Well, maybe those prone to contempt need to check themselves and get a grip. You think that people have to walk on eggshells when talking about Jews, yet you worry that non-Jews will be offended because Jews think themselves "chosen". Sheesh, should Jews walk on eggshells lest they offend everybody else??

[nightflight]

I do agree with your hellfire view. And I guess I care more about Joe Hovah than I do about Thor, because Thor was always a fairy tale...to me...I grew up believing Jehovah was real. There are psychological scars there, many of us have them. ANything that reeks of said god...tends to put me off. Maybe you are more mature than me or more "recovered" than me, or maybe you don't hold grudges, but sometimes I do. And so yeah, I hold contempt for any belief that holds jehovah in esteem. especially any that literally believes old testament stories.

 

Here's irony, I used to as a child admire and love Jehovah. Compared to "The Father" and Jesus that is. Jehovah was a warlord; he would kill you. But that's it. However the New Testament god wouldn't let you die. I my child's mind, Jehovah was far kinder than Jebus or "The Father".

[nightflight]

I'm saying if the jewish people in a primitive time when it WAS more racist had more numbers and more power they could JUST AS EASILY have been the ones who DID something like the holocaust. Hell, even though I don't believe the stories literally happened, the old testament is filled with stories of slaughter, genocide, ethnic cleansing ordered by biblegod.

 

But I'm sure just about every tribe in ancient times thought they were "chosen" and their god more powerful. The Jews just had the luck (and skill) to survive the centuries.

[nightflight]

To me that's like comparing the different levels of terrorism.

 

Not to a kid with a vivid imagination and a terrible fear of eternal punishment.

 

Yes, and I'm against those religions too...but guess what? those religions don't exist anymore...hence why I don't bother mentioning them.

 

That's right. The Jews simply survived. Survived. In fact, the Xtian tendancy to put them into ghettos probably made them stronger as a people. Do you decry them for surviving? Or are you simply critical of the more radical factions in Judaism? Yes, the Orthodox can be obnoxious, but hell, they don't bother me. Do they have a superiority complex? Yes, but I go about my day not caring. And I can't imagine a religious Jew such as Rabbi Harold Kushner being racist. I've read his books and he comes across as a very kind, tolerant man. Nothing like the caricatures and broad brush painting I have seen on this thread.

[Guest onceisenough]

This is the only post you'll ever see from me. I'm Pitchu's Jewish husband. I've got nothing against this site, or at least I didn't until now, and I'm even the one who suggested to Pitchu that she might want to check it out. But I'm a little sickened by what I've read here and Pitchu is very sad, which hurts me too, of course. I guess she thought people would be better here, but I have seen this before, so I'm not so shocked.

 

I'm not exactly sure why, but I'd like to respond to a few points that were written here. I know that there are some people who cannot be reached, and perhaps they will want to put up an argument long after I am gone from this site, but maybe I can be helpful to the rest of you.

 

First of all, it is not anti-Semitic (or even false, in my estimation) to say that Judaism is as subject to the ills of religion as any other religion,

or that Jewish fundamentalists are as destructive as other fundamentalists. One can always debate the nuances of religions, and surely they all have their better and worse points, but Judaism is not immune to being questioned and neither are the policies of Israel.

 

But remember, this lack of immunity works both ways. Being a critic of Judaism or Israel does not make you immune to anti-Semitism, and lots of anti-Semiism is passed off as legitimate criticism.

 

Most people, unfortunately, know absolutely nothing about anti-Semtiism to even know what it is they're claiming not to have. Most people equate anti-Semitism with prejudice, and if they can say that they are not prejudiced against Jews, they believe that, therefore, they cannot be anti-Semites. This is far from the truth.

 

Anti-Semitism has been around for two thousand years. It is a topic that has been greatly studied and it has some unique features. By the way, I am here using the common parlance definition of anti-Semtism. I'm speaking broadly. Technically, before 1880 or so, what you had was anti-Judaism, which was religious opposition to Judaism. After the enlightenment, when religion was not so dominant in Europe, the religious anti-Judaism was largely replaced by secular opposition to the supposed racial characteristics of the Jews. The fact that these two forms of Jew shared common distinguishing characteristics convinced many students of the phenomenon that these were really, at root, the same thing. The same may be said about the next evolution in this process, anti-Zionism, although not all strains of anti-Zionism can be included in this.

 

And what are the distinguishing characteristics of Jew hatred by whatever name? There are two that cannot be ignored. The first of these is their cyclical nature. When we talk about the oppression of women or black people, for example, we are talking about phenomena that are relatively stable. The status of women in societies has frequently remained unchanged for centuiries, if not millenia. And the status of black people in the United States was marked by broad epochs, starting with slavery, then Jim Crow, etc. Anti-Semtiism (again using the broad, common parlance definition) is not stable in this way.

 

The normal anti-Semitic pattern much more closely resembles hte pattern of domestic violence. There is a quiescent period where everything seems to be fine, then a build-up of tension, and then a violent explosion. Thus, Jews have repeatedly enjoyed periods of relative peace, followed by periods of incitement, and culminating in genocide. This pattern has been repeated many, many times, and explains a great deal about the Jewish psyche.

 

If you were with a battered woman for any length of time, perhaps you would see her freeze up after a seemingly innocent remark from her spouse. But she would know the subtle signs of when her husband was shifting his mood. Or maybe she would just be a bit jumpy over nothing, but either way, her whole attitude would be not so much abotu the little remark or gesture but about what it might be tied to. Similarly, it must seem at times as if Jews are reacting strongly to nothing, and sometimes we surely are. But overlying all of it is the understanding that it's all a matter of where things lead. So Jews often react to where things might lead and have led countless times in the past, while people who do not understand the pattern Jews are dealing with will dismiss Jewish concerns as paranoia or an attempt to gain control by using overheated rhetoric.

 

But even understanding, as I do, that it is hard for many people to grasp what makes some Jews so concerned about anti-Semitism, I still think some of the comments on this thread are, at best, mean spirited. I think that even people who have not studied anti-Semtiism might understand that criticizing the Jewish religion is not like criticizing Christianity, because criticizing Christianity, at least in this part of the world, has not been a prelude to hunting Christians down like dogs and killing them for twenty centuries.

 

The second distinguishing characteristic of anti-Semitism is that it is a form of madness. Of course, all forms of hatred are madness in the broadest sense, but this madness takes on a narrower form when it comes to anti-Semitism. By the way, I am not making the case that anti-Semtisim is worse than other forms of hatred, just different.

 

Take the case of Emmitt Till who was beaten to death for allegedly committing the great crime of whistling at a white woman. Well it was surely madness to beat him to death for doing it, but he might actually have whistled. Similarly, it was madness to kill Shwerner, Goodman and Cheney for trying to register black people to vote, but they really were trying to register black people.

 

By contrast, Jews have repeatedly been killed for things that never happened. Tens of thousands of Jews were killed for starting the Black Plague, even htuogh no one in the world would have known how to do so at the time. And Reindfleish and his followers killed an estimated 100,000 Jews in retribution for the crime of desecrating eucharistic hosts,even though Jews never did that, just as they never drank the blood of mudered gentile children, another supposed crime for which countless Jews died.

 

The trouble is that the murderers in all these cases of anti-Jewish violence believed that they were acting entirely on the basis of the truth. That's the really scary part of anti-Semtism. Today we look back at those times and wonder how anyone could have believed any of it, but we don't see it so clearly in our own time.

 

Jews run the world bank? I guess that sounds rational to somebody on this list, but it is quite literally Hitlerian. The world bank is run by governments, but Hitler preached that the Jews were secretly controlling the world's governments and economies and that's the same logic one has to follow to get to this idea that Jews have so much power in the world bank or in the world, period.

 

Jews think they're better than other people because the Torah refers to Jews as the Chosen People? Hmmm. How smart do you have to be to figure this one out? Let's start with the fact that there's a Christian doctrine (not monolithically held by all Christians, of course) to the effect that God only hears prayers uttered in Jesus's name and that, therefore, God does not hear the prayers of Jews. And the Koran states that the believers are the greatest people God ever delivered to the earth or words to that effect.

 

Even if we Jews were all the time just walking around thinking we're better because we're chosen, it's hard to see how that would be any more arrogant than believing that God doesn't hear anyone's prayers but ours or having a holy book which says we're the best. So it is hard to figure out this thread went so quickly from proclaiming hte right to criticize Judaism just like any other religion to all-of-a-sudden criticizing Judaism unlike any other religion. Whoever said that all religions are kind of self-centered was right, but on this thread only Jewish self-centeredness was singled out.

 

But beyond that, this whole attack on us being the "Chosen People" wasn't even accurate. The Torah is quite explicit that Jews aren't better than other people. For instance, when the Israelites are about to enter the Promised Land, God explicitly tells them that they are not being given this land because they are so good. Rather, the current inhabitants are being driven out because they're so bad. And God warns the Israelites that if they behave badly, they will be driven out too.

 

As I understand it, the "Chosen People" reference is a reference to our mission as a people which is supposed to culminate in our becoming "a nation of priests" and in "a light coming out of Zion." I don't think having a sense of mission is the same as thinking you're better than other people.

 

Finally, there are these points about how everybody was doing fine in Palestine until the Zionists arrived. This is a common belief that's not limited to this list, but I wonder if the people who promulgate it also believe that the slaves were happy. Jews were persecuted in muslim lands for almost thirteen centuries before the birth of Islam. There were better times and there were worse times. It wasn't all bad, but any notion that everything was wonderful is pure propaganda coming from one side in an ongoing war.

 

One of the things that's never discussed abou Zionism is how it arose in almost exact parallel with the Anti-Semitic movement, and for this I am not using the common parlance definition of antiSemitism. Starting in around 1880 there were people who were proud to call themselves anti-Semites, claiming that this was their way of standing against exploitation and greed, qualities which were associated with Jews.

 

The anti-Semitic movement touched off a wave of pogroms that sent millions of Jews fleeing. That's why most of the Jews in America are in America. And that's why the Zionists got the idea that it was time to get out of Europe. By the time the Zionist movement started picking up some steam, America had closed its doors to the Jews as had most of the rest of the world.

 

At the root of the idea that the Zionist movement shouldn't have tried to bring Jews to Palestine is the idea that somehow the Jews should have accepted their own extermination as an alternative to bothering anyone else. And when it comes to double standards, that is the greatest one of all.

 

What does anyone think the Jews were supposed to do instead of go to Palestine? Was the Jewish people supposed to make the decision to just stay where it was? Well, if your answer to that is yes, you should bear in mind the fact that that was, indeed, the choice that most Jews made. Zionism, in the form of support for Israel, has become the dominant belief among Jews worldwide (with many dissenters), because Zionism was originally the path that was rejected by the Jews. Most Jews believed that the Zionists were crazy and just stirring up trouble. It was only after the Holocaust that the Jewish world realized that the Zionists had been right.

 

I know that this is a complex political issue with many consequences, but just saying that everything was fine in Palestine until the Zionists showed up is a position that is both historically incorrect and cavalier about the deaths of millions of Jews.

 

I think Pitchu got fed up because she saw that here, in what she hoped was an enlightened haven, the same ancient poison was circulating freely. Well, what can I say. It's everywhere. But yes, it's here too.

[Ouroboros]

personally.

 

Here it is...what pisses me off.  Judaism is just as rank and stupid as christianity.  Although there are some improvements (in that Jews don't feel that nonjews will go to hell necessarily), There is still that arrogant superiority in most of them.  "We have the true religion.  We are god's "chosen people" blah blah bladedeeblah.

 

However if people point this out to them.  If someone says: "hey judaism sucks just as much as Christianity, or you are being a wanker just like those Christians"  you get called an anti-semite...basically a racist.  Which REALLY REALLY pisses me off.

 

The fact that the religion of Judaism is almost inextricably linked with the race of Jews (which honestly I'm not sure if Jews are their own race.  They are part of a semitic race, yes, but this isn't about race, it's about religion.)

 

It irks me that when insulting religions or religious people somehow because of the holocaust, the Jews are off limits.  You can't say they are stupid or superstitious because somehow in some bizarre reality, that makes you a racist.  By tying their race so closely with their religion, they can call you racist for insulting their beliefs...and that pisses me off.

 

Because no BELIEF or OPINION is above rebuke.  Period.

 

However in a stroke of complete and utter Irony...it is the Jewish principle of a "chosen people" that helps to fuel the fires of racism.  When you say your people are chosen you are saying those other people are "unchosen"  nonsemitic races are suddenly "unchosen."  It's an us vs. them mentality based on race and accident of birth.

 

There is never ever anything that justifies something like the holocaust.  No one "brings something like that on themselves" so i don't want some self-righteously pissed off person jumping on me, virtue fluttering due to misconstruing what I'm saying.

 

However, despite the horrors done to them, you cannot hold them as a group of people completely blameless innocent lambs sent to the slaughter.  Especially when you already said your race was "god's chosen people."

 

The hypocrisy in this religion rivals even Christianity as far as I'm concerned.

I think I understand what you're trying to get at here. That every religion that claims superiority should be treated with same scepticism and scrutiny as we've done to Christianity. And I agree to that. Even though I never had any problems with any of my Jewish friends, but on the other hand I haven't had much problems with my Christian friends either.

 

But I must say I've seen more of hypocrisy with Christians than with Jews, and actually most Jews I know are very liberal and open minded. Not judgmental to other faiths. And I can say this with certainty since I was Christian when I met them. I know really rich Jews, and I know several that are worse with money than I am. So I can't say there is anything perticular different with a Jew compared to a non Jew.

 

I also have met nice Muslims, and some that were not that nice.

 

My opinion is that religion can bring out the worst and the best in people.

 

One thing I've noticed though is that the Jewish friends I have, they have never tried to convert me or discuss religion with me. They have not been "evangelizing" they way I've seen Muslims or Christians be doing (including me). So the jewish faith have never threatened my faith or lack of it, or my life style, in any way.

 

When the Christians in the Church belonged to lost interest in the need my family had, our jewish friends still took us in and comforted us. I've seen love and caring from all camps of faith, and from agnostics and atheists too. I even have met less honest atheist, and to be fair I've met less honest jews too.

 

One the whole scale of things, people are people, but I'm not defending anyones religion who claims to be the guardian of the only truth and God himself. But I still can defend the honor of some of the people that still life in the delusion of it.

[Onyx]

Pitchu's husband....

I'd just say, I let Jew people off very easily, I'm not a anti Semite. At the end of the day, it's the behaviour that matter regardless of religion/ race.

If Hitler was a atheist, I'd still condemn him.

Just to let you know.

[Ouroboros]

Great post OnceIsEnough.

 

I hope you read some of the responses that several of us have done, and I hope that you and Pitchu can see through that the majority on this site are not anti-semites or anti-zionists.

 

Several times I have encountered statements just like the one earlier, that Jews control US, and media and are the richest in the world, and they destroy our lives blah blah... And it upsets me extremely, not because I'm a Jew or Christian, but just because it's pure and direct racistic statements. (I'm not referring to you Zoe, but to the other guy Rabbi-something). And everytime I encounter this I ask them where, why and how they know these things, and they just never know. It's a mental meme that has been going on for so long that people have accepted these fallacies beyond proof or evidence. Actually most of the time against the proofs and evidence you can find.

 

One of my co-workers made these kind of statements too, and I practically look up the facts and showed it to her, and she was surprised that what she "knew" was false, and we never talked about it again. And this has happened with other people too. In my opinion it is really sad.

 

Zoe brought up the religious aspect only, and I truly don't think she intended to criticize the jewish people.

 

As I said in my earlier post, I have jewish friends too, and some of the dearly friends. And I have received a lot of love from them, and never have religion been an issue or a discussion in our friendship.

[Onyx]

And I have a Jewish Teacher too, pitchu. Please don't leave. They're stupid people, the racists.

[phoenix]

Well, that is not politically correct but get this! I was looking for ex jew sites. Nearly all of these were Christian. Only one website which encouraged ex Jew atheist/infidels was Ariel's piece of Heaven. But it was shut down. What that does tell you about Judaism and apostates?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

um, that there's not many apostates?

[Onyx]

Perhap you're right. It's a possibility, Phoenix.

[phoenix]

If Hitler was a atheist, I'd still condemn him.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

well, that's uh.... good to know.

 

 

[Biggles7268]

Jews run the world bank? I guess that sounds rational to somebody on this list

 

Thanks for grouping us all into one little happy racist ball. I really 'preciate that.

 

everyone has a right to express their opinion, just because a few people say one thing doesn't mean every member here agrees with them

[phoenix]

Perhap you're right. It's a possibility, Phoenix.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

what were you thinking the reason was?

[Onyx]

what were you thinking the reason was?

I think because it didn't get enough hits or judaism have hidden stories that were awaiting to be told.

 

 

well, that's uh.... good to know.

 

 

 

It was if Hitler was a atheist. Not real. In context. I know he's christian.

Hitler was a very evil man. Whether he disbelieve in God or not, i'd still condemn him.

[Guest Rabbi Dan]

My sincere Apologies to any Jewish Member of this board, If I have offended you in anyway. I guess then I was wrong, the Jewish people of this country or Nation of Israel have never been involved with Media, Finance, and Politics or never been involved in Secret Societies. I was misinformed...Forgive me. Although I think there's a guy by the name of Alan Greenspan who holds the American Economy in his hand...he's in Charge of the Federal Reserve and interest rates and stuff...an economist. I'm not sure if he's Jewish. I also think what Hitler did was inhumane, cruel, and evil. Though I always wondered why God didn't save the Jewish people and intervened as he did in the Old Tetstament.

 

As for the TV advertisement "Sponsor a Jew" that was on TBN late one night.

 

I think that if the state of Israel wants All Jewish people to Migrate back to Israel to fulfill some prophesy then they should finance the effort. There's more worthy causes to support. That's just my opinion.

 

I also stated I don't hate the Jews. I don't hate anyone for that matter. I do think that people who think they are superior because they are Chosen race is racist. That's just my opinion too.

 

I am NOT Jewish either. I chose this user name because it states in the Bible that 8 Jewish people floated on an ARK for seven months and landed on ground...they repopulated the Earth and that makes us ALL Jewish in a sense

 

Rabbi Dan

[♦ nivek ♦]

Folks:

 

"It is just the frackin' InterNutt" Cool off..

 

This subject while not yet getting heated up and slashy/burnin' is geting mighty close to becoming a pursefight that 'taint nofrackin'body gonna end up winning.

 

Back to respective corners, mellow out, think a bit.

If not "friends" at least "not enemies" when discussion is over.

 

As a big well fed large bald euro jewish heritaged son of a bitch, I find no offfense given, none taken, could care less.

 

The "Big Frackin' However" is this: Lets not piss off too many people with broad assumptions and brush strokes that can't be proven within a few sentences of summarizations.

 

Pursefights on this subject stop swingin' with this post..

 

kL

[BlueGiant]

I am typing this one-handed (metaphorically) as my metaphoric other hand, specifically my left, is on a katana, with the blade extracted exactly the length of my thumb out. This undoes the lock on a blade, and is generally a threatening gesture, as it indicates that the blade is prepared for use. Metaphoric of course.

 

This does not change the fact that I want to smack a few of the people on this thread. I have not seen this much overreaction and goading in a long time here. In short, look at yourselves.

 

OnceIsEnough: I hope you get this, somehow, your post was interesting, it was well though out and brought up a number of good points. I wish you would have hung around here more, you seem to be an interesting fellow. Pitchu, I have said this before, but I am sorry to see you go.

 

Rabbi Dan, do some fucking research and save your backhanded apologies for some other place where they may be appreciated. That migration thing is a Christian thing, (TBN, hello...). Apocalyptic at that. Secret Societies, ever run with one, they're kind of fun. And just because one group is involved with them doesn't mean control. (And yes, I am familiar with Caligostro(sp), and others).

 

Zoe, I appreciate what you said here, and I think that you do have a valid point. It is more of a commentary on political correctness than anything else though.

 

Others, take a step back and look at what you are saying, and what you are doing. Many of us here claim to be rational. Now would be a good time to put up and actually show that you are more than just talk in this department.

 

Mods, I appreciate that you have let this stand, there is an undercurent here that this gets at and it may be a good idea to have everyone take a crack at it and figuring what this is. A lesser board would have at least locked this thread and/or deleted it.

 

So, we are all adults here, or close to it. Let's act that way, damnit.

 

This furball is exactly what Zoe was getting at at the top of the thread.

[Guest MalaInSe]

It's an ExCHRISTIAN board, not an ExJewish or ExMuslim board. I have no beef with Jews or Muslims, and I have, in fact, defended Muslims on this board. Though I understand and agree somewhat with Zoe's initial point, I also agree that this thread has degraded into meaningless attacks against Jews. I don't mind if you all fucking say something-- i.e., the old testament supports the oppression of women and certain Jewish sects follow through on that oppression-- however, many of you are not saying anything, just attacking.

 

Is there a distinction made by people on this site? YES. It's, once again, an ex CHRISTIAN site. You wanna rail against Jews, fine, but don't expect everyone to support you. Our beef is with Christianity.

 

And here, I'm going to use the opportunity to say this here. This site is meant to be a support site for exchristians. Wtf is up with the attacking of other faiths, as well as the attacking of other people on the board who happen to be exchristians, especially by people who never were Christians in the first place? I don't fucking care about the Jews or the Muslims. I don't fucking care about whether people aren't Atheists or Deists or whatever the fuck. I don't fucking care about the Evil Atheist Conspiracy or whatever. What I care about is exchristians and the undermining of christian argument for the benefit of exchristians.

 

But, you know, the feeling of a site is dictated by the participants, as someone wise said on another site. There is an atmosphere of hate that has begun to permeate this one. I'm off to greener pastures. I barely post here anymore anyway and haven't even had the inclination to pick an avatar.

 

Thanks for all the fish Dave. This site still has a great purpose and I'm glad I was a part of it. But, I think the benefit isn't there for me anymore. Most of you know where to find me.

 

Ren

[nightflight]

yes, but i'm no longer a child.

 

Indeed, so its time to stop freaking out and getting uppity over ancient myths.

 

Of course I'm not upset that a group of people survived. Why are you trying to make this about something it's not about? And I've already told you I have no problem with secular Jews and Liberal Jews. I DISLIKE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE RELIGION AS WELL AS IT"S MORE ORTHODOX/FUNDIE COUNTERPARTS. THE FOUNDATIONS ARE WHAT CHRISTIANITY GREW FROM, and just like fundamentalist christianity, the foundations are still active. Contrary to popular belief FUndamentalist Christianity makes up a very small portion of Christianity. Most Christians are moderate or liberal. Yet people rail against christianity and it's harms all the time. Complain about Judaism and I get crap about "you are upset people survived?" Are you fucking kidding me? separate the religion from the race or I can't have this discussion with you.

 

Yes, but historically, Jews and Judaism have not been "separated". You have to look at the history. Its too easy to cross the line between criticizing the religion and the people.

 

You know what? Don't have this discussion with me.

[nightflight]

I've personally NEVER had a problem with Judaism. No Jew ever threatened me with hell-fire. No Jew ever loaded me down with guilt. So I have a difficult time understanding anyone's indignation over "Judaism", as much as I would have trouble understanding anyone getting pissed over Thor or Loki.

 

And as far as racism goes, I have friend, black, who told me after we both attended a hilarious Klan rally, that he "doesn't care what anyone thinks. As long as they don't fuck with me, I just don't care". So I don't get the indignation over concern about Jewish "racism".

[Ouroboros]

My sincere Apologies to any Jewish Member of this board, If I have offended you in anyway. I guess then I was wrong, the Jewish people of this country or Nation of Israel have never been involved with Media, Finance, and Politics or never been involved in Secret Societies. I was misinformed...Forgive me. Although I think there's a guy by the name of Alan Greenspan who holds the American Economy in his hand...he's in Charge of the Federal Reserve and interest rates and stuff...an economist.  I'm not sure if he's Jewish. I also think what Hitler did was inhumane, cruel, and evil. Though I always wondered why God didn't save the Jewish people and intervened as he did in the Old Tetstament.

Just because there is a Jewish person in a public position here or there, doesn't mean there are Jews everywhere and controlling everything. According to statistics, I can tell you who runs and controls this country:

 

White

Male

30 years old and up

6 feet or taller

 

That's what the statistics say, and the numbers are overwhelming. I think 60% or more falls in this group. So the only conspiracy I know of is the one by white supremacist, male chauvinistic, middle age, tall guy group.

 

As for the TV advertisement "Sponsor a Jew" that was on TBN late one night.

Isn't this "sponsor" program run by a Christian organization?

At least in the Church I used to belong to, back in Sweden, which was a word of life, fundie Church, that strongly believed that if all Jews get back to Israel, and then Jesus will come back!

 

I know Jews that are poor and not that famous or controlling society. And I have also met judges and lawyers that are NOT Jews... huh, go figure.

 

I think that if the state of Israel wants All Jewish people to Migrate back to Israel to fulfill some prophesy then they should finance the effort. There's more worthy causes to support.  That's just my opinion.

Most Jews I’ve met don’t want to go back to Israel. But like it here. This kind of effort or program from Christians is just a selfish, racistic and religious as anything else they’ve done. They do it s Jesus can come back. Do you seriously think that Jews care one iota about Jesus coming back? I would say they rather not like that idea!

 

I don’t think there’s a reason to support an effort like this either, since I think Israel is not so happy to get more immigrants anymore, it’s getting rather full.

 

I also stated I don't hate the Jews. I don't hate anyone for that matter. I do think that people who think they are superior because they are Chosen race is racist. That's just my opinion too.

That’s very good.

 

I am NOT Jewish either. I chose this user name because it states in the Bible that 8 Jewish people floated on an ARK for seven months and landed on ground...they repopulated the Earth and that makes us ALL Jewish in a sense

Sorry to rant even more on you here, but the Jewish people according to the Bible are from one of Noah’s sons. Noah was not a Jew. His son Shem (or Sem) is the root to Jews and Arabs, according to Biblical history. That’s why they’re called Semites. And the name Jew comes from just one of the 12 tribes, the Judah tribe, the only surviving tribe. So no, we’re not Jews by bloodline.

 

Some of the confusion when any kind of criticism is brought up against the Jewish people is that one would talk about the Jewish religion at the same time as the Jewish people (bloodline). This strong connection between culture, religion and bloodline makes it hard to bring anything up, just like if I start criticizing black people or their culture, or say Vietnamese people (which I have some experience with), and so on.

 

But what’s funny is that no one has ever told me I should go back to Sweden because I teach to pillage villages because I have Viking blood in my veins! Why doesn’t anyone here start criticizing my people for having a bloodthirsty, violent and awful God like Odin?

 

You know, Vikings took their role as the chosen people really seriously. If you compare it to the Crusades, the Crusades were a walk in the park; at least the Crusaders asked if someone wanted to convert before they killed them. But not us Vikings, we killed first, then we took their women and food, then we burned down their village. The women were not even asked if they wanted to convert, we made them convert. Oh, every year we had a festival where we hung people in trees as offerings. And if a king died, we had a sex orgy with a virgin (if any could be found) and then we killed her and put her in the king grave. Pretty cool stuff.

 

Rabbi Dan

[♦ ficino ♦]

But, you know, the feeling of a site is dictated by the participants, as someone wise said on another site.  There is an atmosphere of hate that has begun to permeate this one.  I'm off to greener pastures.  I barely post here anymore anyway and haven't even had the inclination to pick an avatar.

 

Thanks for all the fish Dave.  This site still has a great purpose and I'm glad I was a part of it.  But, I think the benefit isn't there for me anymore.  Most of you know where to find me.

 

Ren

 

Hey, Ren, I'm glad to know your name, though I think Mala In Se is very cool. I've profited and learned from your posts. Please say it ain't total about the "off to greener" part.

 

Cheers

[Guest WhatIsTruth9]

If you are going to rail against fundie jews and christians why not rail against fundy pagans (of the fluffy bunny type or of gardnerian type). They're not harmful with their goddamned "14 million people died in the burning times" or their incessent power struggles, title collecting ways?

 

**needed note: Not all traditionalistic (gardnerian or alexandrian) pagans are like that. One of my best friends runs a traditional coven and his is not like that and hates covens that turn into that**

[nightflight]

fair enough.  you aren't seeing me.  Everyone here gets uppity and freaks out about the mythos of christianity.  i understand historically people have not been able to separate the religion with the people, and if you could do that, we could have this discussion, but I agree it's gone from a simple exchange of ideas to a pissing contest.

 

If you don't like me because I shared something that wasn't comfortable for you, I'm sorry.  I  try very hard to always be my authentic self.  It keeps me from forging friendships with people based on false masks and personas.  I've said what I feel if you can't see the heart behind it, it's not my issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its ok. To me, Judaism (the religion), in comparison to fundy xianity, is totally benign. It has to do with the hell thing. I honestly don't understand your indignation, but I don't put you in the same category as Rabbi Dan.