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Goodbye Jesus

Your Opinions On Jesus?


Abiyoyo

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Yoyo,

 

You heretic, you! :HaHa:

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Ok. So You want to know why God doesn't show himself today. Is your question why doesn't He show Himself everyday? or why doesn't He make you special and show you personally? or why doesn't He come down today, say He is God, and then all will know at the present time?
My question is why doesn't god reveal himself to everyone at once and be done with it. If people still don't believe after that, then they don't believe. If they believe, then they believe, but what does god have to lose by revealing himself to everyone?

 

 

When I originally stated this; it was geared more to 'this'. Though it may be easier than a Christian, it is still opposed and it is highly possible you will not live, especially if all your family, friends, relatives, etc were Muslim. Its different there. You might think it, but you wouldn't act in it most likely. Hey, but whatever, if you think you'll survive, move there. Good luck.
What the fuck? Since when did I ever say it was easier to live in a Islamic country than not? I never said that, so please kindly stop lying and putting words into my mouth that I never said. I thought Christians weren't supposed to lie but I guess it's ok to lie for Jesus?

 

Who said you can't have it both ways. Why confine God to a Book? The Apostles? How the hell should I know man. Ask God.
You can't have it both ways because that would make you a hypocrite that you think one person can be saved without believing but all of us here deserve to go to hell because you say so. And if you're not supposed to confine god to a book, why the hell are you discussing whether or not Jesus is god to begin with? By debating whether or not he is, aren't you confining god to a book? If god shouldn't be confined to a book, then what the bible says is irrelevant and we don't have to be baptized and it doesn't matter if Jesus was god or not. Again, you're trying to have your cake and eat it, too. And how can I ask god if the apostles were saved if god doesn't reveal himself? Besides, I thought that according to the bible, Christians were supposed to always be prepared to have an answer for the reason for their faith or is that something else that conveniently shouldn't be confined to the bible but baptism should?
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RE: Original question:

 

Not only did I believe that Jesus=God, but I steadfastly believed that the transubstantiated Eucharist was the body of Christ and hence, God. I remember having the living crap scared out of me when I was 11 years old because I RAN out of a church with my back towards the altar where the Eucharist is kept. My Roman Catholic parents explained that I could not just bolt out of a church but had to face the altar, make the sign of the cross, genuflect and THEN walk out. God was present in the Eucharist which was kept above the altar and I had to dismiss myself from God's presence. Theatrics. For weeks, I lived in mortal fear of having offended Jesus/God. Theatrics. It gets easier to ape the beliefs of those around you who are also pretending...everyone fakes it...including the priest who understands better than anyone else that priestlycraft is all about negotiated theatrics.

 

However, a lesson in the literal and the figurative was in order for me:

 

It is very useful to learn the difference between "literally" and "figuratively". If something happens literally, it actually happens; if something happens figuratively, it feels like it is happening. If you are literally jumping for joy, for instance, it means you are leaping in the air because you are very happy. If you are figuratively jumping for joy, it means you are so happy that you could jump for joy but are saving your energy for other matters.

 

Spinoza understood the theatrics of belief: "Immense pains have therefore been taken to counteract this evil by investing religion, whether true or false, with such pomp and ceremony, that it may rise superior to every shock, and be always observed with studious reverence by the whole people (...)"

 

I love Spinoza.

 

Yeap. They taught me that in RCC as well. I actually have a funny story about that in my later teens. Anyway, that is one thing I don't get with the RCC. They have the Bible as well as the Catechism. How did they miss the part when Solomon dedicated the house he built for God and said that all the heavens and earths couldn't contain Him. And asked if they could just look and pray at the house/temple, and if He would hear them. God said yes.

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Yeap. They taught me that in RCC as well. I actually have a funny story about that in my later teens. Anyway, that is one thing I don't get with the RCC. They have the Bible as well as the Catechism. How did they miss the part when Solomon dedicated the house he built for God and said that all the heavens and earths couldn't contain Him. And asked if they could just look and pray at the house/temple, and if He would hear them. God said yes.

You mean the following of course:

2 Chronicles 6

 

18 But is it truly possible that God may be housed with men on earth? see, heaven and the heaven of heavens are not wide enough to be your resting-place: how much less this house which I have made:

Looks convincing. Neither "heaven" (the sky) or the "heaven of heavens" (the sky above that) are enough to hold this here god so how can this tiny little holy of holies (imagine that the holiest of the holy places which is how we can know what the heaven of heavens means...essentially "top of the sky") hold this god? Seems a tough question to answering considering "god" had been tucked away in the ark, which had been likewise packed in a tent, before this temple was supposedly built (not that one solitary shred of evidence beyond this story supports any of this mind you but we'll just go ahead and roll with it for sake of argument...the exodus happened, god plopped down from the sky and decided to get carried around in a box which was packed in a tent, then a solid temple got built where the box got put until the Babylonians came and then god got all mysterious and ran off to the sky again...this is the back story explaining his absence but "shhh" we're not supposed to know that).

 

The whole speech goes on but we can skip around to get the gist of it:

20 That your eyes may be open to this house day and night, to this place of which you have said that you would put your name there; to give ear to the prayer which your servant may make, turning to this place. 21 And give ear to the prayers of your servant and of your people Israel, when they make their prayers, turning to this place; give ear from heaven your living-place; and hearing have mercy.
26 When heaven is shut up and there is no rain, because of their sin against you: if they make prayers with their faces turned to this place, honouring your name and turning away from their sin when you send trouble on them:

And

30 Then give ear from heaven your living-place, answering with forgiveness, and give to every man, whose secret heart is open to you, the reward of all his ways; (for you, and you only, have knowledge of the hearts of the children of men;) 31 So that they may give you worship, walking in your ways, as long as they are living in the land which you gave to our fathers. 32 And as for the man from a strange land, who is not of your people Israel but comes from a far country because of the glory of your name and your strong hand and your outstretched arm; when he comes to make his prayer, turning to this house: 33 Then give ear from heaven your living-place, and give him his desire, whatever it may be; so that all the peoples of the earth may have knowledge of your name, worshipping you as do your people Israel, and may see that this house which I have made is truly named by your name.

That's more than enough.

 

See what's going on? God lives up in the sky (heaven) and he is to listen via the magical conduit that this temple creates between the sky (heaven) and the earth. The temple and the city (Jerusalem) is an integral part of the whole thing...not an optional part. The people are praying to the city and the temple and god is (hopefully) "listening" to them. The temple is the connection.

 

Also, it is his request that even foreigners who pray to this god in this temple be given "his desire, whatever it may be" which seems a silly request considering he doesn't ask that for his own people but why? "So that all peoples of the earth may have knowledge of your name..." So once again "testing" this god is actually *allowed* and even *encouraged* but for some reason xians fear the living shit out of the practice. Why? They *KNOW* their god will *FAIL* miserably.

 

So your "god" lives on the top-most part of the sky and he (hopefully) listens to prayers via a magical conduit that is made through the temple at Jerusalem. He is also supposed to give non-believers who pray to him whatever they ask for so that his name will spread and everyone will worship just like the Israelites do.

 

mwc

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My question is why doesn't god reveal himself to everyone at once and be done with it. If people still don't believe after that, then they don't believe. If they believe, then they believe, but what does god have to lose by revealing himself to everyone?

 

 

Ok. Opinion. Because tommorow, 'x' amount of children will be born. Those kids on that tomorrow will take ruffly 4-6 years to become even able to comprehend what you and everyone tell them. Consider, this same process will happen every day, in that 4-6years. So, now. After 3 generations of kids being born(without seeing God), Only half of the original people are alive still that actually saw it.

 

The point is, it will eventually get right back to now, because we are human and live by our flesh.

 

 

You can't have it both ways because that would make you a hypocrite that you think one person can be saved without believing but all of us here deserve to go to hell because you say so. And if you're not supposed to confine god to a book, why the hell are you discussing whether or not Jesus is god to begin with? By debating whether or not he is, aren't you confining god to a book? If god shouldn't be confined to a book, then what the bible says is irrelevant and we don't have to be baptized and it doesn't matter if Jesus was god or not. Again, you're trying to have your cake and eat it, too. And how can I ask god if the apostles were saved if god doesn't reveal himself? Besides, I thought that according to the bible, Christians were supposed to always be prepared to have an answer for the reason for their faith or is that something else that conveniently shouldn't be confined to the bible but baptism should?

 

I didn't say anyone is going to hell. Talking about whether or not Jesus is God isn't confining God to a Book, its talking about a Book that talks about Jesus and God. Agree? Does it matter if the Apostles were saved, baptized? Wouldn't you assume they were? If not. Why?

I'm a little confused by your wording. Are you asking if I'm confining Baptism in relation to going or not going to hell?

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Don't Christians believe that the believer's very body is the temple where the Holy Spirit resides? Isn't this why homosexuality is such a taboo, because it defiles the temple/tabernacle/body? So they went from God's spirit residing in a temple to a tabernacle to a body? I'm confused.... :unsure:

 

BB

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Yeap. They taught me that in RCC as well. I actually have a funny story about that in my later teens. Anyway, that is one thing I don't get with the RCC. They have the Bible as well as the Catechism. How did they miss the part when Solomon dedicated the house he built for God and said that all the heavens and earths couldn't contain Him. And asked if they could just look and pray at the house/temple, and if He would hear them. God said yes.

You mean the following of course:

2 Chronicles 6

 

18 But is it truly possible that God may be housed with men on earth? see, heaven and the heaven of heavens are not wide enough to be your resting-place: how much less this house which I have made:

Looks convincing. Neither "heaven" (the sky) or the "heaven of heavens" (the sky above that) are enough to hold this here god so how can this tiny little holy of holies (imagine that the holiest of the holy places which is how we can know what the heaven of heavens means...essentially "top of the sky") hold this god? Seems a tough question to answering considering "god" had been tucked away in the ark, which had been likewise packed in a tent, before this temple was supposedly built (not that one solitary shred of evidence beyond this story supports any of this mind you but we'll just go ahead and roll with it for sake of argument...the exodus happened, god plopped down from the sky and decided to get carried around in a box which was packed in a tent, then a solid temple got built where the box got put until the Babylonians came and then god got all mysterious and ran off to the sky again...this is the back story explaining his absence but "shhh" we're not supposed to know that).

 

The whole speech goes on but we can skip around to get the gist of it:

20 That your eyes may be open to this house day and night, to this place of which you have said that you would put your name there; to give ear to the prayer which your servant may make, turning to this place. 21 And give ear to the prayers of your servant and of your people Israel, when they make their prayers, turning to this place; give ear from heaven your living-place; and hearing have mercy.
26 When heaven is shut up and there is no rain, because of their sin against you: if they make prayers with their faces turned to this place, honouring your name and turning away from their sin when you send trouble on them:

And

30 Then give ear from heaven your living-place, answering with forgiveness, and give to every man, whose secret heart is open to you, the reward of all his ways; (for you, and you only, have knowledge of the hearts of the children of men;) 31 So that they may give you worship, walking in your ways, as long as they are living in the land which you gave to our fathers. 32 And as for the man from a strange land, who is not of your people Israel but comes from a far country because of the glory of your name and your strong hand and your outstretched arm; when he comes to make his prayer, turning to this house: 33 Then give ear from heaven your living-place, and give him his desire, whatever it may be; so that all the peoples of the earth may have knowledge of your name, worshipping you as do your people Israel, and may see that this house which I have made is truly named by your name.

That's more than enough.

 

See what's going on? God lives up in the sky (heaven) and he is to listen via the magical conduit that this temple creates between the sky (heaven) and the earth. The temple and the city (Jerusalem) is an integral part of the whole thing...not an optional part. The people are praying to the city and the temple and god is (hopefully) "listening" to them. The temple is the connection.

 

Also, it is his request that even foreigners who pray to this god in this temple be given "his desire, whatever it may be" which seems a silly request considering he doesn't ask that for his own people but why? "So that all peoples of the earth may have knowledge of your name..." So once again "testing" this god is actually *allowed* and even *encouraged* but for some reason xians fear the living shit out of the practice. Why? They *KNOW* their god will *FAIL* miserably.

 

So your "god" lives on the top-most part of the sky and he (hopefully) listens to prayers via a magical conduit that is made through the temple at Jerusalem. He is also supposed to give non-believers who pray to him whatever they ask for so that his name will spread and everyone will worship just like the Israelites do.

 

mwc

 

It is what you make it.

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Don't Christians believe that the believer's very body is the temple where the Holy Spirit resides? Isn't this why homosexuality is such a taboo, because it defiles the temple/tabernacle/body? So they went from God's spirit residing in a temple to a tabernacle to a body? I'm confused.... :unsure:

 

BB

 

Its not really that confusing unless you want it to be confusing. God didn't 'need' a tabernacle, temple, body etc. Because He did reside there, does that really mean He needed to reside there?

 

No. Temple didn't help Israel, tabernacle didn't help Israel, and the body; well that is still existent and I guess we wouldn't know if it helped until the end.

 

Add: Hey. just thought of this. It has helped. His spirit residing in our bodies, through Jesus, helped mankinds emotional state. :grin::scratch:

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It is what you make it.

How convenient for you.

 

So what you're really saying is that you have absolutely no argument to back any of what you're saying at any point on any subject. You've no need to speak.

 

mwc

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It is what you make it.

How convenient for you.

 

So what you're really saying is that you have absolutely no argument to back any of what you're saying at any point on any subject. You've no need to speak.

 

mwc

 

You mean discuss? I would love to discuss. How else should it have been done if you don't agree with the way it is written? God should have floated down and carved His name into the mountain?

 

Seriously. Your making a joke about the whole thing. So how can I discuss something in which you make fun of. If you have a direct question, ask away.

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Wanted to add to this topic, since the whole temple, tabernacle, body, location of God thing was brought up. This is something else to consider as to why Jesus is not God. Our body is the dwelling place of God? Right? So, God was inside of Jesus. Jesus knew that, everyone else did not. That could also be a reason why John wrote more in depth about the deity of Jesus. Maybe he understood that concept better.

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The Book is not the confinement of God, but the recordings of God and my primary reference. Its like this. My little brain can, but doesn't want to go swimming in the Pacific Ocean. I try to keep it simple. I was born. Raised Catholic, went to Protestant, went to just God and me(no church); yet not thinking about God but knowing He is there. To full fledge diving into the Why, How, When, Where, and for What of religion. Which has been a rocky road. But whatever the case may be. Bible bogus, We just die go to the dirt; whichever. I think theres a God, and choose the religion of Israel as my 'way'. Weirdly though, I choose to honor the Muslims Muhammad's story in my thoughts as well. But, I believe Jesus was more than what the Muslims think of him.

 

Let me give this one a shot and then I gotta go take a shower.

 

There are several distinct things you mention in your brief "testimony". I'm gonna pull them out for you to see and you can agree that it's what you've said or you can disagree and clarify (i.e. tap dance). The sarcasm is free of charge. Off we go!

 

"The Book is not the confinement of God, but the recordings of God and my primary reference." You're saying that there's more to God than what the Bible says about him. To you, the Bible is a type of historical and spiritual "journal" and that it's merely a point of reference to you. So is the Bible from the mouth of God and his law or not? If you believe it is, are you saying you can add to it or take away from it?

 

"Its like this. My little brain can, but doesn't want to go swimming in the Pacific Ocean. I try to keep it simple." For the love o' Pete. What the hell is simple about that particular analogy? Your brain may be able to swim in the Pacific, but it's going to result in your death. Did you just make that up or did you hear it from someone and decide to regurgitate it here for us to ponder? (You don't really need to defend or clarify this statement. It's a freebie.)

 

"I was born. Raised Catholic, went to Protestant, went to just God and me(no church); yet not thinking about God but knowing He is there." You didn't like the religion that was chosen for you, so you found another version of it, but then you decided that wasn't working either and so you and God just had your own little thing. Kinda like a club? You didn't think about him much, but you liked the warm, fuzzy of imagining he was there.

 

"To full fledge diving into the Why, How, When, Where, and for What of religion. Which has been a rocky road." It's been an uphill journey, but now you're pretty well on the up and up about "religion"... even though I didn't see you mention any credentials of any type. That's okay, 'cause I ain't got none neither. Oh well. At any rate, you're well on your way to deciphering the wisdom of the ages!

 

"But whatever the case may be. Bible bogus, We just die go to the dirt; whichever." Whichever? What the fuck? WHICHEVER?!?!?

 

"I think theres a God, and choose the religion of Israel as my 'way'." You think there's a God... you're pretty sure of it anyway. No, you believe there is and that settles it. And, even though your mother isn't Jewish (or is she?), you've settled on the religion of Israel. Would this be Orthodox Judaism? If so, do you prefer Hasidic or Haredi? (Is that like original recipe or extra crispy?) Maybe you're into Progressive Judaism... but would you consider yourself reformed or liberal? This would make a lot of sense with the whole Bible being a reference book thing since you probably really dig the Torah and the Talmud.

 

"Weirdly though, I choose to honor the Muslims Muhammad's story in my thoughts as well." Ah... you're a people pleaser, too! All of it just kinda makes sense, eh? Muhammad, Jesus. It's all good! (And yes, it is weird!) Do you use the Qur'an as a reference book, too? On a side note, your fellow Christians consider The Bible (both the New and Old Testament) to be the undiluted Word of God, spoken by God and written down in its perfect form by humans. On another side note, your Muslim brethren believe the Qur’an to be the book of divine guidance and direction for mankind, and consider the original Arabic text to be the final revelation of God. I gotta tell ya... neither one of them take their books very lightly, okay?

 

"But, I believe Jesus was more than what the Muslims think of him." More? Well, the Muslims think Jesus was talking while he was still in his cradle. Hell, even the Christians don't go that batshit crazy! You think more of him than the Muslims do, but less of him than the Christians do. He's kinda in between for you then? Kinda medium... like a steak... pink in the center, grayish brown surrounding, hot throughout.

 

This is only my opinion, and I'm having a lot of fun at your expense right now, but you're a very weak Muslim, a really bad example of a Jew and a misguided but starry-eyed Christian. HanSolo might have nailed it. You could very well be a most excellent heretic!!! And really, we all need to be good at something.

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Why is it that everytime over the past coupla years I read one of YoYo's threads, I come away reconfirmed in my mind that the net result of the contradictory, confusing and willing-to-send-unbelivers-to-hell religion that we call loosely "christianity" has left the most confused people in its wake.

 

Thanks for the gentle reminder, man. You haven't changed a bit. Sorta cute, actually, and willing to discuss, but never willing to actually contemplate that you just might be completely and totally wrong about religion.

 

But ya keep comin' back for more. As long as you're asking US the questions, I guess I'll take it as a compliment.

 

Take care. Good to know that you're still out there.

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You mean discuss? I would love to discuss.

From dictionary.com (very first definition):

discuss: to consider or examine
by argument
, comment, etc.; talk over or write about, esp. to explore solutions; debate

 

As for "argument:"

1. an oral disagreement; verbal opposition; contention; altercation: a violent argument.

2. a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation.

3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons: I couldn't follow his argument.

4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.

5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.

6. subject matter; theme: The central argument of his paper was presented clearly.

7. an abstract or summary of the major points in a work of prose or poetry, or of sections of such a work.

 

So no. I guess I didn't mean to discuss when I said you had no argument to back your claims. I guess I felt we were involved in a verbal altercation as per definition 1 instead of the, say, nearly all the other uses for the word. I'm sorry you find the word "violent" or to be somehow less than "friendly" but it is quite apt and I've no intention of softening it to "discuss" or some other synonym. You presented an argument (see definitions 3,4,5,6) and failed to back it (definitions 2,3). Get it?

 

How else should it have been done if you don't agree with the way it is written? God should have floated down and carved His name into the mountain?

You made the assertion that it was one way but the text clearly states it is another. If you disagree with the text that is fine. I have no problem with that. You do have to do better than say "Well, I disagree." How so? To who and/or what are you disagreeing? Me? The text? You've made no argument (see above). So when I presented my argument (which was really more a summery/clarification of the speech more than anything) you again did nothing.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by the latter question (the carving of the name into the mountain).

 

Seriously. Your making a joke about the whole thing. So how can I discuss something in which you make fun of. If you have a direct question, ask away.

A joke? How so? I'm just curious as to where in that speech this "god" says that it's fine to pray without the temple and all that you claimed considering that it repeats over and over that all prayers should be made in, or in the direction of, the temple in Jerusalem (much like Muslims pray to Mecca as a "focal point" if you will).

 

mwc

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There stories didn't turn into just books; they were legends. All the Jews thought Jesus was Elijah. Elijah! Isn't that something. Elijah had been dead and gone for hundreds of years. These people, the remnant of Israel, kept hope from their heritage and accepted Jesus. The leaders killed Jesus. So how did Jesus and the Gospels in that present have anything to do with political propaganda.

 

Keep in mind that the only source for these stories comes from the bible alone.

 

You trust very heavily in the message of the bible, but have you ever studied the origins of the actual texts and its various unknown and anonymous authors? Have you looked into how the letters of the new testament were circulated, brought together and hand picked by elitists in the roman empire? Are you aware of the extensive editing the texts have gone through? Do you know how many creation stories are in Genesis? How about the early church's disagreements on the nature of jesus and eternal damnation? The various christian cults scattered throughout the empire, each holding opposing orthodoxies? Have you studied the fundamental theological differences in the writings of Paul vs the gospels? Are you aware of the many gospels/epistles that never made the cut? Do you know that the earliest bibles in existence today have less scripture in them than the later editions?

 

Do some honest research to find out how these stories that you so easily believe in came to be. Be skeptical and doubt first before you give your life for something. Life's too short to be wasted on a lie isn't it?

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Mwc

BB was talking about the Eucharist in the RCC and how she had to basically reverend this when walking out because the RCC believe that is actually Christ's body. Anyway, I was just saying I didn't understand why they are still so ritualistic with the Eucharist thing, and literal about it being His body. I referred to the scenario where Solomon asked God if they could pray to the temple.

 

I wasn't insinuating that people should still do that. I think with the people destroying that temple, Israel going to captivity, the rebuild, early preaching, Jesus coming, Holy Spirit, early church, etc; I think people are past that.

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There stories didn't turn into just books; they were legends. All the Jews thought Jesus was Elijah. Elijah! Isn't that something. Elijah had been dead and gone for hundreds of years. These people, the remnant of Israel, kept hope from their heritage and accepted Jesus. The leaders killed Jesus. So how did Jesus and the Gospels in that present have anything to do with political propaganda.

 

Keep in mind that the only source for these stories comes from the bible alone.

 

You trust very heavily in the message of the bible, but have you ever studied the origins of the actual texts and its various unknown and anonymous authors? Have you looked into how the letters of the new testament were circulated, brought together and hand picked by elitists in the roman empire? Are you aware of the extensive editing the texts have gone through? Do you know how many creation stories are in Genesis? How about the early church's disagreements on the nature of jesus and eternal damnation? The various christian cults scattered throughout the empire, each holding opposing orthodoxies? Have you studied the fundamental theological differences in the writings of Paul vs the gospels? Are you aware of the many gospels/epistles that never made the cut? Do you know that the earliest bibles in existence today have less scripture in them than the later editions?

 

Do some honest research to find out how these stories that you so easily believe in came to be. Be skeptical and doubt first before you give your life for something. Life's too short to be wasted on a lie isn't it?

 

Think about what you just said and then reread what I wrote. I said 'how did Jesus and the Gospels in that present'; as in that present time. In response to a statement earlier posted, that conveyed prior to the death of Jesus, the Jewish leaders were in some type of political propaganda. Not after.

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I'm another one who believed that Jesus was God.

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Ok. Opinion. Because tommorow, 'x' amount of children will be born. Those kids on that tomorrow will take ruffly 4-6 years to become even able to comprehend what you and everyone tell them. Consider, this same process will happen every day, in that 4-6years. So, now. After 3 generations of kids being born(without seeing God), Only half of the original people are alive still that actually saw it.

 

 

 

I didn't say anyone is going to hell. Talking about whether or not Jesus is God isn't confining God to a Book, its talking about a Book that talks about Jesus and God. Agree? Does it matter if the Apostles were saved, baptized? Wouldn't you assume they were? If not. Why?

I'm a little confused by your wording. Are you asking if I'm confining Baptism in relation to going or not going to hell?

This post makes no sense. Please come back to it and make it make sense so I can make a response to it.

 

That could also be a reason why John wrote more in depth about the deity of Jesus. Maybe he understood that concept better.
Or maybe "John" just made the whole thing up like the rest of the bible? And you might have a point about not confining "god" to the bible, expect that you're still confining yourself to the bible it seems.
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My question is why doesn't god reveal himself to everyone at once and be done with it. If people still don't believe after that, then they don't believe. If they believe, then they believe, but what does god have to lose by revealing himself to everyone?

 

Why God doesn't reveal Himself to everyone at once in my opinion-

 

10,000 kids are born the day after God reveals Himself everyone. Lets suggest that it takes 4-6yrs for these 10,000 kids to even be able to understand what people tell them, that God revealed Himself etc. In, that 4-6 years 10,000 children are born each day. Six year mark since day God revealed Himself; 1.8-1.9mil kids between 4-6yrs old, that have never seen God. Year thirty mark since God revealed Himself. 54-58mil 'people that have never seen God since the day He revealed Himself. Also, at the thirty year mark, suggest that 1/2 of the people alive that God showed Himself to have died. How long do you think it would take to eventually get to zero. No more than 75-85 years? Agree? So, at that point, no person on earth has ever personally seen God. Faith in Him stays strong for thousands of years after that due to the structure of belief set up from when that day God revealed Himself. Then people begin to second guess things, after decomposition of any things of that day, lost items, hidden items, accidentally damaged items, or stored items in which we are not allowed to go see or touch.

 

See where I'm getting at. This already happened. I would have been more excited if you would have chosen to ask the question regarding if He should show Himself to everyone everyday. Thats a hard one to think on.

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The disciples saw Jesus (supposedly), after he was dead and had his "resurrected" body which could float in the air, teleport itself and walk through walls. If that person were around us right now, and we could talk to him, and also notice that we are bound to this mortal life with all its limitations, while that person (Resurrected Jesus Ghost) would obviously be one-of-a-kind, doing miracles, and if asked for anything he would literally say "yes", "no", or "later," instead of us guessing. Then you can have 10,000,000 babies born a day, and yet Jesus could walk (hover) around everywhere and show his existence. The only reason why he doesn't do it is, either: 1) he doesn't want to/doesn't care, 2) evidence isn't important, but subjective belief is, and this subjective and fallible belief is what decides your eternal destiny, or 3) he just doesn't exist.

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Yeap. They tau

 

 

...snipped hella long full bodied quote...

 

sed to give non-believers who pray to him whatever they ask for so that his name will spread and everyone will worship just like the Israelites do.

 

mwc

 

It is what you make it.

 

 

YoYo... do me a hellova favor please. Do NOT again do a "Full Quote" of a page's worth of information, then put a single pissant line of reply to all of that.

 

Snip, clean out, cut what isn't being replied to, or ask how to do so via PM system. I am asking politely *this* time.

kFL

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The disciples saw Jesus (supposedly), after he was dead and had his "resurrected" body which could float in the air, teleport itself and walk through walls. If that person were around us right now, and we could talk to him, and also notice that we are bound to this mortal life with all its limitations, while that person (Resurrected Jesus Ghost) would obviously be one-of-a-kind, doing miracles, and if asked for anything he would literally say "yes", "no", or "later," instead of us guessing. Then you can have 10,000,000 babies born a day, and yet Jesus could walk (hover) around everywhere and show his existence. The only reason why he doesn't do it is, either: 1) he doesn't want to/doesn't care, 2) evidence isn't important, but subjective belief is, and this subjective and fallible belief is what decides your eternal destiny, or 3) he just doesn't exist.

 

Then we would lose our lifes, agree? If Jesus Ghost was hovering around, doing miracles, able to be seen, etc. Wouldn't that either place mankind in one or two positions.

 

1.We would be confined people. Think about it. If you woke up in the morning, and knew at some point in that day God will show Himself to you. Consider this as well, since God would be real at this point. He told you He knows your thoughts, everything you do, even when nobody is looking. How would your day go? Mine wouldn't. I think God doesn't reveal Himself daily to us because our mental capacities couldn't handle it.

 

2.The earth. How would it be? Seriously, there are truly sick people out there, and if you say there aren't, your in denial. What happens to them? Does God just take the demons out of them, or does God destroy the actual person? Jesus casted demons out of people, the OT God never ventured this. Recall, Saul. Saul's infirmity. David played the harp to sooth him. Why didn't God cast Saul's demon out when he went looking for David to kill him and Saul ended up prophecing with Samuel?

 

How would that go? Why didn't Jesus cast the 'obvious' demon out of Judas? Is the will of God more important than the need of our life on earth? Jesus was crucified, by people, Why didn't He save Himself? If God was here, He is the will, so there is no more will of God to be done.

 

-Lets say God casts every demon, satanic thing out of earth, just us. Then I guess that would be Revelation. Agree? Then the Bible is true, and laid out just as it was suppose to, other than the part that everybody lives forever, even those with the infirmities. Most say all the End time prophecies already happened, so it would line up.

-Lets say God kills all the people that are truly wicked on earth. Judges everyone own their own to what they've done or not done etc. Separates the afterlife, the wicked in one place, the not wicked with Him. That would leave us at the Garden of Eden, and the Book of Adam( if you accept that), being tempted yet by Satan, againist God.

-Lets say God kills every one wicked, same as above; but instead of just tempting God's people to do things, he just tries to battle God. He loses because, God is God. Right? So. Then we have Revelations.

 

My point is this, if God revealed Himself in all Glory being God and all. Something has to happen to the people that are wicked on earth. Agree? I wish the Bible was explicit about the first scenario.

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DEMONS?!?!?!?

 

Cast out the spirit of stoopid!

 

Glory!

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Mwc

I was just saying I didn't understand why they are still so ritualistic with the Eucharist thing, and literal about it being His body.

 

You wonder why they keep up with their foolishness, but you don't wonder why you keep up with your foolishness. I wonder about that. You are right about this RCC doctrine being crap, perhaps later you will see that Christian doctrine of any sort is all crap.

 

My "opinion on Jesus" is that he is largely the figment of overactive imaginations. I'm sure there was a guy named Jesus. In fact there are a lot of guys named Jesus. My niece is married to one of them. So it is quite possible that there was a "Jesus" on which the fantasies were hung.

 

Once I did believe that he was God based on the Gospel of John. I was wrong.

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