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Guest Zoe Grace

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What exactly are you saved FROM?

 

[sBF] Sorry, I just saw this topic. Saved from the penalty due for our sins. Jesus took the punishment that we deserve.

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What exactly are you saved FROM?

 

I used to fear death. Death to me was the thing that nobody could explain, comprehend, or justify. Nobody can tell us what happens to us after we die, other than those who say that we are just dead, that it.

 

I had a hard time believing that(prior to even being a Christian). I thought if I was nice and decent that I would be happy. I was wrong. People will take advantage of you, compell you to do things you never wanted to do( illegal activities, for me).

 

I was always a person that wanted to know about me. Growing up, becoming more educated in life and how it works, I learned how I actually came about( birthing wise). I still asked, What about my mom, and her mom, and her mom. Wheres the beginning.

 

Growing up catholic, and dreading Sundays, I didnt get my answers from church. I didnt get my answers when I started going to a Baptist church( being compelled by my girlfriend). I heard about and read about Genesis, but still, it seemed a little weird, but more than I had gotten anywhere else.

 

It wasnt until my recent encounters from God, an His guidance( through many hard times), that I realized (for me) the most imporatnt aspect of the "saved" terminology.

 

I realized that all through the Bible, death has been a serious issue( with the exception of some few). Death, is still an issue in todays church. People mourn and weep and say Why Why Why. people say Why would God let such horrible things happen to His supposed children.

 

What is death to God/Jesus? I have found that people really dont take to heart that death is merely a walkthrough to Gods realm. Its like a measuring tape that never ends and our life here on earth is an inch of it.

 

My grandmother died a few months ago( around February). To my memory, she was not a Bible beating filled with the Spirit person. She was always nice, and would do anything to help. I dont remeber her ever telling me about God, or the Bible.

 

I visited my grandmother about 2 weeks, almost everday, before she passed. She was in and out of the hospital. She got out of the hospital the last time, before she passed, and I called her at home. She was eating(intensely), seeming to me like that was the best meal she had ever eaten(probualy was).

 

I was talking with her, just trying to be there for her. I never heard my grandmother really speak about God, until that night. She said, Well, I guess the Lord doesnt want me to come home yet. Really taking that in from someone who had lived on earth for over 80 yrs, I realized that death is the problem. People are bound by death and the unknowns of it.

 

My grandmother had a mild heart attack that night, and went into the hospital again. She died a couple days later.

 

Asking the Lord to show me what He wants me to see out of all that, I went to the scriptures in faith. God showed me what I had already heard for quite a while. This time though, I read it a little differently. God showed me the entire NT. Yea, the whole thing. I never really understood the whole concept or direction until that moment.

 

I realized that being saved is by faith, that Gods word will be fullfilled on earth. Also, that death has bound people for centuries and continues. I realised that heaven and hell are just places we go, not an instrument for preachers to bring more money into churches, or more alter calls. Then I understood that I was born in an open book, that is yet to be completed.

 

I realized that I am a servant of God, and He is the Good Shepherd( Truly, to me). Also, that there is more to living for God that going to the Christian book store, or going to Monday prayer meetings(though meaningful), or Sunday school. I realized that many can do all those things, yet be blind to Gods fullfillment of His word. We (sometimes) as Christians, see a circle(created by man), that seems righteous and holy, and we start running around in it until we get so tired that we just stop all together and say, I give up. Whats the point.

 

Then I saw that the circle is sitting on the Earth that God laid with His hands, and that man created the circle of habits and traditions. Then people are filled with the Promise that Jesus tells us about, and the Word of God flows so abundantly over from them that they change, and some people will even yell from the circle, Hey..What are you doing, get back in.

 

Yet, you look past the outer rim of the circle, and see the angels of Host worshiping God on His Throne. You step outside the circle, and draw near to Him, and worship. When I worship my God, thats what I do. I see the throne and the righteous and I worship Him who has shown me the unknowns about my life.

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When you see that the circle was built on the Earth that God laid with His hands, and that man created the circle of habit and tradition. Then one is filled with the Promise that Jesus tells us about, and the Word of God flows so abundantly over from them that they change, and even some people will yell from the circle that you look on your left and right at and say, Hey..What are you doing, get back in.

 

Yet, you look past the outer rim of the circle, and see the angels of Host worshiping God on His Throne. You step outside the circle, and draw near to Him, and worship. When I worship my God, thats what I do. I see the throne and the righteous and I worship Him who has shown me the unknowns about my life.

 

I'm sorry, YoYo, but I must say that this kind of talk always "weirded me out" when I was IN church. People seeing visions of angels, heaven and such, made me look askance at them and make note to avoid their cooking at church dinners!

 

Now that I've escaped, it sounds truly psychotic and delusional.

 

I REALLY don't mean to insult or offend you, but, I gotta tell you...This kind of talk does NOT help your standing as a "rational" person to me.

 

Whoa! :eek:

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I'm sorry, YoYo, but I must say that this kind of talk always "weirded me out" when I was IN church.  People seeing visions of angels, heaven and such, made me look askance at them and make note to avoid their cooking at church dinners!

 

Now that I've escaped, it sounds truly psychotic and delusional.

 

I REALLY don't mean to insult or offend you, but, I gotta tell you...This kind of talk does NOT help your standing as a "rational" person to me.

 

Whoa!  :eek:

 

I truly understand and respect your comment. I will say though that these things dont come to me all at once. This has all came to me over a years time following God, and through truly worshiping God( mostly by myself).

 

I do hold a rather respectable positon at my workplace, and am very in tune with the needs and necessaties of life, including providing for my family. I am in management, and I mention God when able too, and I dont deny my faith. I also handle my responsiblities at work as would anyone else.

 

I come home and spend time with my family, and try to be the best father and husband I can. I will say though, Jesus( for me ) was right. People will think your nuts, and stay a good distance away, of course until they experience something similar, or someone they know does.

 

I am very human, and I actually make some jam up Buffalo wings. I usually, task my day out like most Americans and I look at Eathly goals as well. The difference is that I constantly talk, ask, seek Gods direction Spiritually everday. I look for answers from Him, either through His Word or through trials from everday life( More trial for me).

 

The Book says that the Holy Spirit comes as the wind, no one knows where its going or where it came from. Thats honestly the way it happens to me. I could be worshipping God on the way home, praising Him, in a jam with life, or full of joy. It comes to me when and where It wants to. I just give in, and become an open vessel for It to work through me.

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Ever consider that maybe the "holy spirit" doesn't want us to experience the same thing you do? And that you are interfering by trying to make us do so?

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YoYo,

 

Thank you for sharing your visions.

 

I am aware of certain sources of visions: (the following examples are from Catholic sources)

 

The Dialogue of St Catherine of Siena: (click on each chapter you can read)

http://www.catholictreasury.info/Dialogue/Default.htm

 

Sister Emmerich’s visions about Jesus:

http://www.jesus-passion.com/DOLOROUS_PASS...ESUS_CHRIST.htm

 

Sister Faustina’s visions with Jesus:

http://our.homewithgod.com/divinemercy/preface/

http://our.homewithgod.com/divinemercy/book1page2/ (an example page)

 

I shall be interested to hear you comments, opinions.

I wish to say this is a question for knowledge, not a question of debate nature.

 

Thanks again.

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Ever consider that maybe the "holy spirit" doesn't want us to experience the same thing you do?  And that you are interfering by trying to make us do so?

 

 

Yes. Everone is different. There are also different Spirits. God created a divine universe, everthing very different and unique. I believe(through scripture) that there are many different kinds of Spirits, with many different characteristics. All in all, though, there are Spirits that are for Good and evil, with different motives.

 

I apologize if I seemed as if I wanted to make anyone do anything. I tried to note a few times, (for me). My last statements explains my direction a little better about the Holy Spirit, and how it comes to us, and where it comes from, and its cause for us individually different.

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I believe(through scripture) that there are many different kinds of Spirits, with many different characteristics. All in all, though, there are Spirits that are for Good and evil, with different motives.

 

And you believe you can tell the difference between these two categories of spirits?

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YoYo,

 

Thank you for sharing your visions.

 

I am aware of certain sources of visions: (the following examples are from Catholic sources)

 

The Dialogue of St Catherine of Siena: (click on each chapter you can read)

http://www.catholictreasury.info/Dialogue/Default.htm

 

Sister Emmerich’s visions about Jesus:

http://www.jesus-passion.com/DOLOROUS_PASS...ESUS_CHRIST.htm

 

Sister Faustina’s visions with Jesus:

http://our.homewithgod.com/divinemercy/preface/

http://our.homewithgod.com/divinemercy/book1page2/ (an example page)

 

I shall be interested to hear you comments, opinions.

I wish to say this is a question for knowledge, not a question of debate nature.

 

Thanks again.

 

Huh, I have also seen other Saints that have had these visions and testimonies of Gods plan to them. I more had a moment that I just thank God for. I am a simple person, and I will use what i have received to help others, in conversation.

 

My particular visions and thoughts came from many trials and life events that occured with my seeking of God( similar to them), yet I feel they are very different. I tend to have breakthroughs or Spiritual strength when i have these visions and understandings through them.

 

It is to me more individual, yet motivational to others( and even scary to some). It all depends on what state of Spirit( in general) a person is in, in my opinion.

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And you believe you can tell the difference between these two categories of spirits?

 

Cersie,

 

Some people can. Biblically speaking, Jesus along with the disciples could determine whether someone one or the other. I get senses about people, but I have personally seen a Spirit.

 

I have seen an act of a Spirit through my wife, and I have seen an act through a Spirit through a material thing. Me and my wife were talking, and she was telling me how I was a fake and a liar, and all kinds of hurtful things.

 

Me, knowing I wasnt, felt the Spirit present, yet I couldnt see it. She keep going, I keep saying the Word says this. She went to bed, and I was walking asking God to give me strength. The remote from the couch flew off, and landed in the middle of the floor. (I had asked for strength out loud).

 

The Spirit I saw was a frightening night. I woke up about 3 in the morning to my cat on all fours hissing and reared back at the door. I felt it, something I have never felt before. Fear feel upon me. I went and looked under the blinds and I saw an image of something that I really cant describe(It wasnt another cat though) fear cut me to the core. If I had to describe it, I would say that it looked like a face kinda like the one described in Job 41.

 

I grabbed my cat, and began praying and crying. I (in fear) ran to the door and felt a strong fear again. I began to call on the Lord. I gained courage and opened the door, walked outside and rebuked Satan. I then saw a man waving His arm in a half circle around our place, and inmmediatly the fear left, and peace came over me.

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Funny how it's always religous people that seem to be involved in these spirit attacks. The only time I thought about evil spirits and such playing tricks on me was when i was a Xtian. Funny how that stopped when i stopped beliving in it.....

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Funny how it's always religous people that seem to be involved in these spirit attacks.  The only time I thought about evil spirits and such playing tricks on me was when i was a Xtian.  Funny how that stopped when i stopped beliving in it.....

 

 

Isn't it? I feel left out.

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Cersie,

 

Some people can. Biblically speaking, Jesus along with the disciples could determine whether someone one or the other. I get senses about people, but I have personally seen a Spirit.

 

I have seen an act of a Spirit through my wife, and I have seen an act through a Spirit through a material thing. Me and my wife were talking, and she was telling me how I was a fake and a liar, and all kinds of hurtful things.

 

Me, knowing I wasnt, felt the Spirit present, yet I couldnt see it. She keep going, I keep saying the Word says this. She went to bed, and I was walking asking God to give me strength. The remote from the couch flew off, and landed in the middle of the floor. (I had asked for strength out loud).

 

You asked god to give you strength and the holy spirit tosses a remote at you? He wanted you to watch some t.v.? I am so confused. How was this a sign that it was a good spirit?

 

The Spirit I saw was a frightening night. I woke up about 3 in the morning to my cat on all fours hissing and reared back at the door. I felt it, something I have never felt before. Fear feel upon me. I went and looked under the blinds and I saw an image of something that I really cant describe(It wasnt another cat though) fear cut me to the core. If I had to describe it, I would say that it looked like a face kinda like the one described in Job 41.

 

I grabbed my cat, and began praying and crying. I (in fear) ran to the door and felt a strong fear again. I began to call on the Lord. I gained courage and opened the door, walked outside and rebuked Satan. I then saw a man waving His arm in a half circle around our place, and inmmediatly the fear left, and peace came over me.

 

I do that every other night (except for the rebuking satan and praying part). It's called "watching too many scary movies on ROD" and "being alone in the house" though. Sorry, I guess I just don't see how this is evidence of "spirits" let alone a holy spirit.

 

If god can toss a remote at you when your wife is being verbally abusive, why can't he toss a pie plate at a pastor who is touching you? It would have been the least he could do...

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You asked god to give you strength and the holy spirit tosses a remote at you?  He wanted you to watch some t.v.?  I am so confused.  How was this a sign that it was a good spirit?

I do that every other night (except for the rebuking satan and praying part).  It's called "watching too many scary movies on ROD" and "being alone in the house" though.  Sorry, I guess I just don't see how this is evidence of "spirits" let alone a holy spirit.

 

If god can toss a remote at you when your wife is being verbally abusive, why can't he toss a pie plate at a pastor who is touching you?  It would have been the least he could do...

 

Cerise,

 

I was talking about the other spirit (antiGod type) that threw the remote. I cant relate to the latter comment, but I can say that I wish all people that claimed to be Gods people were honest. My brother went through some life changing things similar to these which affected me as well, though life changing for him.

 

Woe to the world for its offences, yet offences will come.

 

If I was there and I was your brother I probualy wouldve done more than throw a pie plate at him.

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That you would have done more speaks to your character.

 

That your god did less...that speaks to his character as well.

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i'm still waiting to see what SBF has to say...........hmmmm......

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Uh oh, it's the Forgiveness Police!!  *hides*

 

Every time some bloody Fundie claims I should forgive my abusers and that horrible priest, I want to smack them. Some things are unforgivable.

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Every time some bloody Fundie claims I should forgive my abusers and that horrible priest, I want to smack them. Some things are unforgivable.

Go for it. Give SBF a clue-by-four.

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Every time some bloody Fundie claims I should forgive my abusers and that horrible priest, I want to smack them. Some things are unforgivable.

 

Not surprisingly, most of the members of the Forgiveness Police haven't experienced even a tenth of what they are expecting other people to "forgive their debters" for.

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Go for it. Give SBF a clue-by-four.

 

Problem is, I'd have to do it verbally. Which would involve a raw, no-holds-barred account of the horrible shit I'm expected to forgive. Don't really want to impose that on the rest of you. :P

 

More to the point, though: if God was really talking to SBF or people like him, he'd be saying "Lay off, you're being an asshole!"

 

Nothing's talking to SBF but the dulcet tones of his own ego and fanaticism.

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