♦ nivek ♦ Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 ..on a legal list I particpate and help moderate; you may need to start from bottom up to get gist of my counter discussion with this gentleman. Learning Electronmically About Freedonm: The Law is not Just for the lawyers! *************************************** (Lawyerdude, apologies if this reply is coming unwanted or unbidden. Paul begs for an answer to his post back to you and I.) What are you blathering about Paul? Your presuppositionalist claim that the, "a" Creator, is the xtian god is at once showing your ignorance as well as your perverted sense of superstition. If you care to believe and worship an ancient sandpile diety, feel free in my country, the united States to do so. However do not even attempt to compel me to have your brand of superstitions. Unsure where your thoughts have come from, but I am sure that some poor TAG preacher needs them back for his sermon this upcoming weekend. Don't mind discussion amigo, but I won't be yelled at, nor preached to by the funda-MENTAL-ist religionst. Not sure where the term "Monkeys" is found anywhere in the Founding Documents, I know them fairly well, unsure what you refer to. Do not grok your statement. "Fundies put all the MENTAL in and remove any FUN from religion" daFatman I've had to break up your screed into paragraphs, as I am unable to follow your shotgunned technique in delivering a dozen differing arguments and statements in one block. My replies are prefaced with a pair of asterik, for you in Paduca, that is the " ** " sign. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Pipitone To: The_Lawyerdude@yahoogroups.com ; boclonka@oregontrail.net Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [The_Lawyerdude] Re: [Lis-LEAF] Claim that 10 Comndmnts = basis of US law debunked What kind of idiot could write the gutter vernacular below. "1: the ten commandments are not christian....." How stupid are you. * *I believe when asking a question in writing it is accepted that the " ? " sign follows such. Even my sixth-grader son knows that. I hope you are an adult Paul. **As to how stupid "am I?"; the knowledge of the hebrew origins of the so-called ten commandments along with the rest of the torah is based entirely on authorship unprovable. Not a single first person report has ever been unearthed showing any form of evidence hat anything in the old testament ever happened. Put more clearly, pure conjecture, tales and bullshit from around hundreds of years of campfires. The whole bible is christian. Although not articulated, the moron was probably speaking of the jewish holy book known as the Torah. **The "moron" I believe knows difference. What is your point? The entire bible is christian. **The bible is a book of tales and stories written down, and hand santized over the years for consumption by gullible fools. If the term "christian" fit those same fools, so be it. The declaration of Independence mentions several times that we ARE NOT MONKEYS **I have my copy of the DoI and BoR right here in my hand, and again on an openeable webpag on my computer monitor. Nowhere is anything mentioned of "monkeys" or anything similar. Not a fracking clue what you are referring to, however your mixing of metaphors and stories has clued me into your particular religious inclinations. ""IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776. The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government........ "" **Cool, you can cut'n'paste. Goodie for you. Impressed. What is your point again Paul? Well there goes the idiot savant's next argument that we evolved from monkeys. You see the words created and Creator... tell me smart person that you are, why oh why did the forefathers capitalize the word Creator? Huh? **Dunno how "smart" I am am, but I do know that "Creator" was used in the Deist sense of the word, having a source, not necessarily the christian format of "god". Do you know what endowed means? **Yeah buds, it means my lack-of-god has a bigger crank than your imaginary sky buddy has.. Go ahead with your pluralistic society if you want, but move over to europe with the rest of the one world government sheepals. **Yoookay, this statement requires a bit more thought before I can even format a reply. Also have you EVER read the bible? Jesus did not bring the gospel/word and yes the ten commandments are a part of the gospel. Jesus was the Word....old testament spoke of his coming as a savior and the new testament spoke of his unselfish sacrifice to save us and of his second coming as a warrior king to issue judgment. **Many, many more time than you have. Taught it, preached it, lived, and have even converted many to its tenants. Then I woke up. Reading things critically and rationally saved me from its clutches. Before putting your mouth in gear you should first engage your brain if you have one. **Never claimed to have one. Pot, black, Kettle. You probably think we live in a democracy also. Well I for one say "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of America and to the REPUBLIC for which IT STANDS...... **Again you earn da Fatman's "Yooooookayyy?". Feel free to swear tow hat you want. None of my business. I won't even go into the sepration of church and state, I would have to make you look stupid than you already do.....look it up, it had NOTHING to do with keeping religion seperate or unspoken. **This post shows to me that you are one of the ever increasing xtianJihadi, those not happy until your exact version of religion covers the nation with its particular kind of religio-statist pollution and its attending fascism. You'll not stop until you have tried to conquer the world for your version of religion. Let me know when you figure that one out. **Long ago figured what side of any fences I stand on. Understand Paul, there is a Ballistics Party with lots of 30 round Vetos loaded for those coming to convert daFatman and his extended family to whatever form of faith the bad actors think they want to spread on us. .Pray to your diety that you never, ever, ever show up on haciendaFatmans land with evil intent on your mind and mischief in your hands. Figure that one out Paul KevinL. Unafraid and rather well prepared. And somewhat literate. ExChristian dot Net http://www.exchristian.net Vigilius Haufniensis wrote: 1: the ten commandments are not christian. that's old testament. jesus brought the GOSPEL, not the law. 2: the bill of rights is based on NATURAL LAW, not the ten commandments. this would seem to me to derive more from the gospel than the ten commandments. ----- Original Message ----- From: "KM Lamoreaux" To: "lis" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 1:07 PM Subject: [Lis-LEAF] Claim that 10 Comndmnts = basis of US law debunked The US Supreme Court is currently working on its decision about two cases where the Ten Commandments are erected in public spaces (the Texas Capitol grounds and a courthouse in Kentucky). One of the arguments that the religious right make in favor of keeping the monuments is that US law is based on the Ten Commandments. A legal historians brief has been filed in the case showing clearly that this is NOT the case and further debunking the "America is a Christian nation" claim... Americans United for Separation of Church and State summarizes the brief like this... QUOTE The legal historians' brief filed in the McCreary case is especially enlightening. Coordinated by Steven K. Green, former AU legal director who now teaches at Willamette University College of Law in Oregon, the brief debunks the common Religious Right claim that U.S. law is based on the Ten Commandments. The brief traces the development of civil law during the founding period of American history and notes that the Constitution and Bill of Rights "did not include even a perfunctory or formalistic reference to God." Observes the brief, "Thus, it comes as no surprise that the Ten Commandments and biblical law received nary a mention in the debates and publications surrounding the founding documents. In the wide-ranging debates - reprinted in Madison's Notes, the Annals of Congress, Farrand's Records, Elliot's Debates, and elsewhere - the Founders mentioned Roman law, European Continental law, British law, and various other legal systems, but as can best be determined, no delegate ever mentioned the Ten Commandments or the Bible." You can read the full text at link below. It's long, but has lots of good information. The pertinent section begins on page 25 in section III: The Ten Commandments as the Moral Foundation of Law. This file is in PDF format so you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view it. http://www.law.buffalo.edu/baldycenter/pdf...kelmanPaper.pdf ..snipped useless footers ************** Paul's original return I replied to: What kind of idiot could write the gutter vernacular below. "1: the ten commandments are not christian....." How stupid are you. The whole bible is christian. Although not articulated, the moron was probably speaking of the jewish holy book known as the Torah. The entire bible is christian. The declaration of Independence mentions several times that we ARE NOT MONKEYS N CONGRESS, July 4, 1776. The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government........ Well there goes the idiot savant's next argument that we evolved from monkeys. You see the words created and Creator... tell me smart person that you are, why oh why did the forefathers capitalize the word Creator? Huh? Do you know what endowed means? Go ahead with your pluralistic society if you want, but move over to europe with the rest of the one world government sheepals. Also have you EVER read the bible? Jesus did not bring the gospel/word and yes the ten commandments are a part of the gospel. Jesus was the Word....old testament spoke of his coming as a savior and the new testament spoke of his unselfish sacrifice to save us and of his second coming as a warrior king to issue judgment. Before putting your mouth in gear you should first engage your brain if you have one. You probably think we live in a democracy also. Well I for one say "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of America and to the REPUBLIC for which IT STANDS...... I won't even go into the sepration of church and state, I would have to make you look stupid than you already do.....look it up, it had NOTHING to do with keeping religion seperate or unspoken. Let me know when you figure that one out. Paul Vigilius Haufniensis wrote: 1: the ten commandments are not christian. that's old testament. jesus brought the GOSPEL, not the law. 2: the bill of rights is based on NATURAL LAW, not the ten commandments. this would seem to me to derive more from the gospel than the ten commandments. The_Lawyerdude@yahoogroups.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 GO NIVEK !!!!! You so totally ROCK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Wow. You fobbed off a secret service agent, now this! I've fobbed off a American Christian Iraqi soldier about a video I've seen about a helicopter shooting a innocent person with a sort of missile on Christianforums.com., but nothing compared to your hijacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 Answer, unexpected from this assklown in todays Inbox: I am writing this real slow as I know that you cannot read very fast. But you not I brought up the religion thing. You make absurd statements you know nothing about and think we all are going to fall for it. How in the world would you know what religion I am. I am not a fundies as you speak in the Ebonic language of some foreign country. This is my country and it was founded by christian men. Not ignorant morons like yourself. I did not ask you to believe in my God, a God or any God. Again you broke the first rule of stupidity....You need to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt. Please show me where or where did I attempt to "compel" you to have my brand of superstitions? I simply showed you your ignorance when it comes to barking out your ass on subjects you know nothing about. I realize that ignorance is bliss so you must be a very happy soul. Just remember your soul was created and that your lack of intelligence is not the Creator's fault, he gave you free will. You just choose to spend it like an idiot. Paul ********** Still working up an answer.. :evilegrin: kL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Answer, unexpected from this assklown in todays Inbox:I am writing this real slow as I know that you cannot read very fast. But you not I brought up the religion thing. You make absurd statements you know nothing about and think we all are going to fall for it. How in the world would you know what religion I am. I am not a fundies as you speak in the Ebonic language of some foreign country. This is my country and it was founded by christian men. Not ignorant morons like yourself. I did not ask you to believe in my God, a God or any God. Again you broke the first rule of stupidity....You need to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt. Please show me where or where did I attempt to "compel" you to have my brand of superstitions? I simply showed you your ignorance when it comes to barking out your ass on subjects you know nothing about. I realize that ignorance is bliss so you must be a very happy soul. Just remember your soul was created and that your lack of intelligence is not the Creator's fault, he gave you free will. You just choose to spend it like an idiot. Paul ********** Still working up an answer.. :evilegrin: kL If the country was founded on Christianity like the guy say's. Ask him to Cite one Reference, one statue in Government, one anything in this country pertaining to Jesus Christ. People who claim such absurd things never realize there isn't one Reference to Jesus Christ. Also ask him to Cite the Treaty of Tripoli which was written under Washington's administration and signed under Adams. Article 11: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." The founders were for the most part Deists and not Christians. Most of them went against 'god' as they went against the king during the Revolution. God was to be on the side of the king, always. WTF, Does this guy not know his history?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 Somwhere in this gentlemen's eduMUSkaSHUn logic and calrity were not part of the cirric. Not all that sure he will be able to answer a question directly, answer points, nor continue with a stream of reasoning. Reminds me of the axiom of why it takes a 2x4 to plow with a mule.. "First one must catch mule's attention". I'm sure this man was valedectorian at someones religious instutional sKULLe.. kL ********** kL or GSL, You state: " Try answering any of the points laid out for you in my first return post, answers to direct questions, assumptions, or statements. Rather than start up with a whole new load of sectarian whining and crying, try to answer what is in front of you first." When you see that you are ignorant of the facts, you act like your 6th grade son and ramble on about things that aren't germain. So people with common sense and I take it you have no response to the following facts: I never said I was christian, xtianJihadi, gohwd or xtainTaliban; You never deny any of the statements made in my first email, therefore you agree, but since you have no rebuttal, you ramble on calling names like a little kid; You never deny that this country was founded by christian males; You quote all these legal historians but never state their creditials, just that they are historians, well I can say the same thing, only I didn't go to a government school; Did you go to school? Doesn't seem like it; As my last post states: "Ignorance is bliss, and you state you are very happy"; must be nice to be so dumb. Paul morrobayblue2002@yahoo.com KM Lamoreaux wrote: Paul, Such a refreshing christian reply.. Typical xtianJihadi reply.. "My version of gohwd or else!" Can see you strapping on a bomb and blowing up some unbelievers because your preacher told you to do so, "for da GLOORIE of daLard!"... Catch an Internet Clue buds.. Paragraphs and punctuation, while not a necessity, sure make trying to post a point easier for the receiving party to understand whatever you are posting or replying to. "Punctuation, it isn't just for fourth graders." As typical as fundamentalists are, you reply with overbroad, generalizing sweeping statements, then refuse to reply to the reply, choosing to start even more idiotic tangents. Try answering any of the points laid out for you in my first return post, answers to direct questions, assumptions, or statements. Rather than start up with a whole new load of sectarian whining and crying, try to answer what is in front of you first. If this is the best you can try to do, then your *witness* for your skY BuDDie is weak, anemic, dull, and leaves no one the urge to ever join your particular brand of profession. Anything you choose to type from this point on is something that has been argued by those with better knowledge of subject, handier writing skills and better prose. Don't have the time, nor inclination to mail back and forth with a member of the xtainTaliban... Have a decent life Paul. I will. kL GSL! ****************************************************** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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