Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Your Views On Morality, 'worldliness' And What's Right And Wrong After Deconverting?


WonderPat

Recommended Posts

To use one's comfort level as a guide does require getting to know one's own feelings. This is not a familiar exercise for Christians. It might be uncomfortable for them at first.

 

I agree with this. For instance, If a clerk gives me too much change or doesn't charge me for something, I always tell them.

 

I don't do this because of any abstract future reward or because I think I have some god looking over my shoulder or that I believe in Karma. I wouldn't want anyone getting in trouble because they made a simple mistake, even though I could pocket a few extra dollars. For me, that's just wrong. Taking advantage of anyone is wrong.

 

The large majority of people are not going to do what everyone agrees is wrong. For me, morality doesn't lay where everyone knows what you do; it lays where no one else knows what you do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IBF, as I read your post and saw your avatar, I thought what an excellent visual to accompany the theory. The post might come across as an evil atheist. But then one sees a very decent man sitting in the yard working with the soil (I think). "God's good earth" for a Christian. For the life of me I cannot see any horns growing out of your skull. So where's the atheist???

 

I am not exactly working the soil (which in New Hampshire is basically just rocks) but collecting acorns off the ground in the backyard. His Royal Majesty King Big Bear (also in the avatar) is inspecting the collection with total disdain. He hates it when we try to pay our Royal Taxes in acorns, he prefers salmon or cash. We took him to Hawaii in June and he did make an exception for Macadamia Nuts as he found they bring much more in trade on the open market that acorns.

 

But you are right R.S. Martin about atheists in general. Every atheist I have ever met in person has struck me to be a much better person than the average theist.

 

IBF

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But you are right R.S. Martin about atheists in general. Every atheist I have ever met in person has struck me to be a much better person than the average theist.

 

IBF

 

I had an interesting conversation with my dentist today. He's Muslim but seems a fairly open-minded person. He said he'd trust an atheist over a religious person when it comes to money. He asked a banker at one point who is best at paying loans. Atheists were best and priests were worst. I don't think he knows my position.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I was a xian running my own business I would never do business with another person if they advertised with some xian symbol. In my past jobs I never had nothing but trouble with billing/collections with them. It was like "I'm xian so I can overcharge or never pay you and you'll just be cool with that." I'm sure some do good work and do good business but I never had any luck at all. I refused to put that little fish in my ads even though I knew I'd get more business (I did a lot of work with seniors in certain areas). I still won't hire anyone with those symbols for the same reasons (not because I'm an atheist).

 

mwc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm getting the feeling Wonderpat was a hit-and-run troll...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm getting the feeling Wonderpat was a hit-and-run troll...

Really? I was just getting the feeling that he may have been outclassed... and knew it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still around. :D

 

And I am a troll, but only of the Theodor Kittelsen/Mortiis/Finntroll variety! :D

tkmftdg7.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm getting the feeling Wonderpat was a hit-and-run troll...

Really? I was just getting the feeling that he may have been outclassed... and knew it.

 

I don't claim to be the wisest or the most knowledgeable person on this board. And I don't think any of my posts have been disrespectful or solely to "rile up 'dem heavven affiests!" Sometimes I feel as if people here assume that when I'm not posting, I'm handing out these little tracts to children :P:

1211338667555yo4.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't claim to be the wisest or the most knowledgeable person on this board.

I don't make that claim either. These forums are chock full of intelligent and knowledgeable people in my opinion. I feel satisfied if I can merely hold up my end of the conversation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't think that I don't have my doubts and disagreements with my faith. But I've actually accumulated a lot of evidence in my head over the years that supports the hyper-fundy Christian mentality and that kind of doctrine. Right now, I suppose I consider myself a liberal Christian. But there's still a lot of stuff that doesn't sit right with me.

 

However, there's way too much stuff that I've seen/heard/read/wondered about (etc) to give up my faith. And I'm not sure that I want to. I just want to be comfortable and confident in what I believe, whatever that may be. I'm here mostly for help challenging all of the extreme hyper-fundy hysteria I've been indoctrinated with. Its all really scary. Plus, there's alway so many questions and stuff that pop up in my head that seem to support mainstream Christianity, over the years (I've always had a disdain for the mainstream :P).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just want to be comfortable and confident in what I believe, whatever that may be.

Well that seems honest enough. What beliefs do you hold now with unshakable confidence?

 

I can think of very few things that I believe with complete confidence, but somehow I manage to make my way through the world. Sometimes I even get the impression that my body knows more than my brain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What beliefs do you hold now with unshakable confidence?

 

That the love I have for things and most especially for people that I am close to is real, powerful and must have some meaning in the overall scheme of things.

 

...and that I'm a ruggedly handsome, body-building son of an oil baron who could punch out a battle tiger with my own bare hands. Call me, ladies! :D;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What beliefs do you hold now with unshakable confidence?

 

That the love I have for things and most especially for people that I am close to is real, powerful and must have some meaning in the overall scheme of things.

Right on man. I can dig it.

 

I don't know what more to say. I agree that we know our own thoughts and feelings better than we know anything else. And sometimes even this knowledge is imperfect. But I dig what you're saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks! Yeah, honestly its impossible to KNOW with 100% certainty. But what I meant, basically, was that if anything feels real, lasting and transcendent to me, its love.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...oh yeah, and that you for tolerating my bad jokes. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No offence meant about the "troll" remark pat. We get a lot of "hit-and-run" posters around here. They start a few threads, we spend days answering questions as best we can... and then never hear from them again.

 

Glad to hear, you aren't in that category.

 

To veer back to the topic: How do I define right and wrong?

 

Conditionally, every time. I try to take each situation as it comes and deal with it on it's own terms. Certainly my past experiences play a part, but I try not to let them define my responses.

 

Does this mean I'm always correct in my assessments? No, but I think it's the only truly fair way to deal with moral issues.

 

I think one of the attractions of Christianity (and indeed all religions) is the sense of the certainty it can provide. You're given a set of rules, told they have absolute authority and that's it. If you fail to meet those standards yourself, there's an escape clause - we are all "fallen" and as such, prone to moral failure (sin).

 

Thanks for sticking around,

:thanks:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks! Yeah, honestly its impossible to KNOW with 100% certainty. But what I meant, basically, was that if anything feels real, lasting and transcendent to me, its love.

 

If you pay attention, you will find that feeling isn't lasting at all.

 

Pick up an orange feel it. Put it back down. Where is the feeling?

 

The love you feel this moment is not the love you felt yesterday, or even 6 minutes ago, and it won't be the love you feel tomorrow. Love transcends nothing. A little brain damage in the right place and you will never love again, and probably you won't even understand what it is.

 

Love is what compels you to the other, a handy device for a social animal.

 

If there is one thing a one and only god cannot have, it is love, for there is no other.

 

If God is Love, then God is Many.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right now, I suppose I consider myself a liberal Christian. But there's still a lot of stuff that doesn't sit right with me.

 

Ahhhhh... it's just a matter of time, young Skywalker... just a matter of time.

 

I did enjoy seeing you mention the word "feel". As in what "feels" real, what "feels" lasting, and what "feels" transcendent. You originally used language like "define" and "differentiate" concerning right and wrong. Proverbs 3:5 seems to indicate that mankind is incapable of defining or differentiating anything and it appears that what one feels would certainly be out the window as well. Since it's your post on morality and right and wrong, where does "feel" fit into your (liberal) Christian ideas of morality?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.