Why Do Xians Debate with Non-Xians?

[Ouroboros]

I think it would be easier if we met just one honest christian.  Just one.  One who would lay down the "full armor of God" long enough to be human.  Here, christians - let me give you an example.

 

Honest christian: 

 

I trust the bible and I believe that Jesus is who he says he is in the bible.  I don't know why christianity didn't work out for you guys.  I feel really bad that my religion seems to have let you down.  Maybe you all were at fault, maybe you weren't.  I just don't know.  You sure seem like you were sincere committed christians.  There is a lot that I don't understand.  Sometimes I have doubts myself, but overall I still believe and trust in the gospel.  I'm not sure where I would be without Jesus as my guide.

 

I admit that there are things about the origins of christianity that I haven't really looked all that closely at.  I don't see the point of examining something that might cause me to doubt further. 

 

I know there are contradictions in the bible.  I can't explain them away.  I have read about the apparent atrocities in the old testatment that were approved or initiated by God, and these are a problem for me.

 

But in spite of all this, I still believe.  I have to.

 

THIS IS WHAT AN HONEST CHRISTIAN WOULD SAY. 

 

Do you know what the problem with an honest Christian is? Do you? He would become an Apostate in a few seconds. I think what you said were about the last version of Christianity I had before I totally lost my faith!!!

 

Besides the truly last was the gut feeling that had been faith in me dissipated into thin air and wouldn't come back.

 

I’m so glad I have you guys, I don’t know if I could survive without knowing that there are others just like me! Thanks guys!

[Ouroboros]

She is OK by me too. Never the less, Xtians, all of them are in a state of denial and are lying to themselves.

Yes. A delusion based on the figments of imaginative friends requires denial and lying to your self. It's the basic requirement for the delusive mind.

[Ouroboros]

Thanks, I'm sure my keyboard needed that watering....

You mean:

 

[spamandham]

sigh*  I know, Spam, I know.  And as I have said REPEATEDLY, I'm not telling them they cannot be here. 

 

I guess I misinterpreted "WHICH is WHY I don't appreciate your presence here."

 

I understand what you're saying, but realize that a small percentage are actually engaged in their own existential search here and are not just preaching. There have been doconversions from this site, so I would say that's proof enough that they are not all just here to preach (not that you claimed that). The ones that are here to preach don't last long.

 

Also, there are Chrsitians who do not take the "bible is the infallible word of god". If you did a poll, I suspect the vast majority fall into the "Bible is usefull, but not infallible" camp.

[Checkmate]

Also, there are Chrsitians who do not take the "bible is the infallible word of god".  If you did a poll, I suspect the vast majority fall into the "Bible is usefull, but not infallible" camp.

 

Which is all the more reason for me to screw with their heads!

 

For without an "infallible" bible, on what ground do they stand? What do they(we) go by? Subjective impressions of the so-called "holy ghost"?

 

Nah. They can't have it both ways. It is an either/or proposition. Either the bible IS THE INFALLIBLE word of God(not to be toyed with or ignored), OR else it is just another spiritual suggestion book that has no authority, nor any more "truth" than any other "holy book"--and thus, worthless. (Worhtless as far as "eternal security" is concerned, at least.)

 

If the "vast majority" DOES in fact believe the latter, then they may as well relent and join the rest of us heathen unbelievers.

[spamandham]

If the "vast majority" DOES in fact believe the latter, then they may as well relent and join the rest of us heathen unbelievers.

 

I suspect they would if they could get over the fear of asking the tough questions.

[Checkmate]

I suspect they would if they could get over the fear of asking the tough questions.

 

Not-so-subtle reprimand accepted, Spam.

 

Folks, it may be time to shift gears here, as I've gathered all the data that I require. I gotta jet right now, but later this PM I plan to begin an offshoot thread dealing with my conclusions to this question I posed.

 

But before I jam out of here, I want to post something from our newest apostate Kevin which has truly touched a soft spot. He writes in another thread about how EX-C has helped him, and he says:

 

I can honestly say that I would still be a christian if it wasn't for this place. I remember coming here very cocky thinking I had all the answers. It wasn't long before I was staring blankly at my screen, thinking of a smart reply to a question I had no idea how to answer. The people here forced me to re-think in what I believed in, and why. It was like having surgery without any anaestesia(sp).

 

Kevin:

 

Thanks, Kevin! I really needed to hear that.

 

Later dudes and dudettes!

[Burry The Rag]

No no no no.  That ain't it, Burry.  I don't want to speak for TK, but he ain't asking do you TOLERATE those beliefs.  Here is what the deal is:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahhh, now I finally got it. Thanks, Mythra. Peace, BtR

[Burry The Rag]

Hey TK421,

As for "what gives?"...Well, let me just say that IF in the future YOU come to the realization that Xianity is BS, AND that YOU'VE devoted and wasted several YEARS and DECADES of your life and substance to a LIE, AND THEN some representatives of this same religion come into your field of "vision" telling YOU how "wonderful" "Jesus/God" is...I'm PRETTY sure you might get a little bit miffed!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suppose I would. Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense to me.

Yeah.  I've got some "anger issues" with Xianity and religion in general.  So don't expect me to "tread lightly" when you skip in here with your "Pollyanna" attitude.  It quite frankly pisses me off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I’m not asking you to tread lightly, please express as you wish. Why does my attitude bother you? Would you like me any better if I was a condescending jerk?

But if "the nicest bloke on the planet" keeps trying to sell me shit that I keep telling him I DON'T WANT, then I'm going to give this "nice bloke" a shot gun enema.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I’m really not selling anything. As for the shot gun, yikes! >grin<

 

Peace!

 

BtR

[Burry The Rag]

Hey Mythra, Cool post.

I think it would be easier if we met just one honest christian.  Just one.  One who would lay down the "full armor of God" long enough to be human.  Here, christians - let me give you an example.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can basically agree with the first (with the exception of “you all were at fault”) and fourth paragraphs (I don’t know that I have to.). It doesn’t seem like something most Christians I know would have a problem with either. I don’t think I shy away from study for fear of doubt or have a problem with God’s actions, though.

 

Does that make me half-honest? >grin< Cool post, really.

 

Peace!

 

BtR

[Burry The Rag]

Come on BTR, fill in the blanks. Please....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey thankful,

 

Is the blank that you see no usefullness in Christ or Christianity? I think I've done that...

 

Peace!

 

BtR

[Checkmate]

"Are you STILL here? It's over. Go home. Go!" - Ferris Bueller

 

Hey, if anyone is interested, I posted a new thread as companion to this one. C-ya!

[Baggs]

Thread starter is right, Christians not spose to bother. I personally host chats on Battlenet with people, one guy invited me to go to this forums. He said go there and I'll go to Christianforums.com "Xenoce".

I asked him. So what do you want me to do there? He said, just whatever, I want to see you defend yourself.

I was thinking to myself what benefit I would gain from it. So I posted on a thread that wasnt meant for debate, at least I thought it wasnt, but after I posted on it, people started replying and attacking what I said. Oh well. Lol.

But yes, you are right, we arent spose to argue. Jesus didnt come for people who wanted to argue about it, he just came for the people who realize they have done evil things and want to change their lifestyle. I used to host chats to argue when I was a poser believer. I then met real Christians and I finally understood what being Christian is. Thats why most of the time I wont bother arguing unless I realize that the person is very sincere and open minded and seeking. Not debating just for the sake of entertainment like Xenoce told me to do here. He told me to debate here just cause it was fun, I was like, uhhh...

Anyway. Good job thread starter is right.

[Cerise]

Baggs, how did you idenitify the "real christians" from the "poser christians" in the end?

[pug]

I then met real Christians and I finally understood what being Christian is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do you? By your exemplary behaviour so far?

[Guest UnTied Methodist]

Been off-line for several days and haven't taken the time to read all of the replies (4 pages worth at this writing...) but, I'll chime in here.

 

I didn't come here with the intention of debating Ex-C's. In fact, that's never been something that I've cared much for.

 

I've been a Xian for most of my life and for most of the past 10 years I've been a preacher. However, 7 months ago I left the pastorate due to personal reasons. At this point I'm not sure if I'll return to preaching or not. BUT, should I ever go back to it I thought this would be a great place to gain more perspective on what it is about the Church, Xianity, etc... that has turned people off through the years. That way, should I ever start a church I can hopefully do it in a way that will cut through so much of the crap that has brought so many churches to a grinding halt and instead, address the real problems, questions, arguments, dislikes, etc that so many "in the world" have about Xianity and the Church.

 

In short, I'm not here to argue (it's really pointless to me). I'm here to learn.

 

UTM

[Mythra]

#1 Thing that turns me off about christianity:

 

I discovered it isn't true.

[spamandham]

BUT, should I ever go back to it I thought this would be a great place to gain more perspective on what it is about the Church, Xianity, etc... that has turned people off through the years.

 

Mythra beat me to the punch, but I was not "turned off" of Chrsitainaity. Instead, I discovered it's based on lies, myths, and legends. Although people do leave for emotional reasons, just as they join for those reasons, often, they leave because they finally sit down and read that silly collection of myths and legends that Christians often idolize (aka the Bible), or because they do a bit of research into the history of their faith.

 

There's a reason the Catholic church prohibited laymen from reading the Bible for centuries.

[Amethyst]

There are some things that turn me off Christianity, but they led me to try a liberal church first before I deconverted. I did not deconvert entirely because of them. I deconverted because I learned that Christianity is an offshoot of Paganism and I realized it was just another man-made cult, not the real thing that it claims to be.

 

Imagine you're 4 or 5, and you've stumbled into the living room after you were supposed to be in bed, and it's Christmas Eve, and your parents are frantically wrapping presents and eating the cookies you left out for Santa. It's pretty much the same thing. I couldn't believe in Santa again. I can't believe in the Judeo-Christian deity again, either. If there is anything divine, it's not Biblegod.

[Baggs]

The reason you were "attacked" is because    you made FALSE ACCUSATIONS about the people on this board!  Are you really that freakin asinine?  What, you think you can just come in here and attack peoples characters and have us cower because you think that you speak for god?    You would have been welcomed if you wouldn't have made false accusations on the good people here at ExC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I apologized for that if I offended anyone, check that board again to see my reply.

As for the exemplary behaviour, I do see that I still have my previous attitude from before when I was a poser Christian and I am trying really hard, thats one reason why I also avoided some forums I go to is because they fuel that kind of attitude. Did I also mention the reason I am here?*scrolls down* yup I did, nvm.

But anyway I am alot better than before actually Hopefully I would totally be rid of my past attitude with God's grace. But anyway, the other reply, how do I tell what a poser Christian is, well I was one of them, the fruits show it. I had plenty of hate and such, also sin, pornography. Poser- basically would be the kind that loves their sin in general, thats what I consider the main reason why some< people leave Christianity is because of sin, thats also the reason why alot of people rejected Jesus back then is because of their love for their sins.

I stumble many times, but I have seen plenty of improvement. But basically, the Bible does talk about how to tell the poser from the real deal. I met this couple that I visit every week, one of them is mentoring me right now and really hitting alot of my beliefs and showing me all the wrong stuff that I have, so far He helped me change alot of my beliefs and attitudes. I realize that its not all gone but I'm on my way, and I'm not giving up. We fall down, we get back up.

[spamandham]

Poser- basically would be the kind that loves their sin in general,

 

You're still a poser. So are (almost?) all others who claim to believe. How do I know? Because you still sin. I truly and honestly believe in gravity, and my actions demonstrate that belief. You do not truly and honestly believe, or your actions would also reflect your beliefs. Actions are driven by beliefs. Your actions demonstrate only that you believe you believe.

 

thats what I consider the main reason why some< people leave Christianity is because of sin, thats also the reason why alot of people rejected Jesus back then is because of their love for their sins.

 

No-one who actually believed would leave because of sin. That would be like me deciding to quit believing in gravity because I prefer to be able to float around. No amount of wishing I could float would convince me I can actually do it, because I truly and honestly believe in gravity.

 

What happens, sometimes, is that other desires overcome the desire to believe.

[SkepticOfBible]

that loves their sin in general, thats what I consider the main reason why some< people leave Christianity is because of sin, thats also the reason why alot of people rejected Jesus back then is because of their love for their sins.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Off course you will be aware that there is nothing in the OT about a new system which requires faith in a human "sin" sacrifice.

 

The new covenant, as defined by Jer 31:17-37, is where God's laws will be reaffirmed under a new contract

 

So start following the law of the OT