Tithing--lessons Learned?

[Pecker]

So, my last year of Christianity I was looking for God in lots of places, but not finding him. I finally tried to "give my finances over to God" to see if he would reveal himself there.

 

So, my wife and I began tithing. I'll admit, it felt good. My church wasn't too flashy, the lead pastor still drives a 1994 Honda Accord. Its not like the pastor is getting rich. The church even touts that they have a rule that any books or works written by the staff (its a large multi-site church) can net the author no more than $10k. So while the lead pastor wrote a book that sold thousands and thousands of copies, he takes home no more than $10K a year from the proceeds. Its actually quite refreshing, they do a lot to help the community in our area and across the world.

 

That being said, I finally felt comfortable tithing. I didn't get the impression that my check was going directly to the pastor's new kitchen remodel like I saw at other churches. My wife and I were giving 10% to our church. We went above and beyond. I actually started a rather secular online campaign to encourage folks to donate some of their economic stimulus rebate checks.

 

Now that I've left the fold, I still want to continue my generous streak. I've decided to donate to Operation Smile, an organization that performs cleft pallet surgeries for children in developing nations ($240 is all that it costs to perform one operation...) I'm looking for other worthwhile secular causes with very low operating expenses.

 

What are some of the Esteemed Assemblies thoughts about tithing and donating in general?

 

Does anyone still try to put others first in their finances even though they no longer believe? Has the habit of helping others first stayed ingrained for anyone even if the direction your money goes has shifted?

 

Does anyone still give 10% or more to a cause?

[mwc]

What are some of the Esteemed Assemblies thoughts about tithing and donating in general?

 

Does anyone still try to put others first in their finances even though they no longer believe? Has the habit of helping others first stayed ingrained for anyone even if the direction your money goes has shifted?

 

Does anyone still give 10% or more to a cause?

What's wrong with donating money or time to charity? The only difference is you get to choose the amount and the cause(s) plus you're doing it because you WANT to and not because you HAVE to. 0% or 99.9%. Give what you can or what you want but don't give if it hurts. That really doesn't help anyone I don't think.

 

mwc

[Guest quietheart]

For me personally, I give to friends or family who need it when I'm able. I prefer to do that rather than giving to a charity because only a portion of what I'm giving actually going to the people who need it.

Es

[Pecker]

What's wrong with donating money or time to charity? The only difference is you get to choose the amount and the cause(s) plus you're doing it because you WANT to and not because you HAVE to. 0% or 99.9%. Give what you can or what you want but don't give if it hurts. That really doesn't help anyone I don't think.

 

mwc

 

I didn't mean to imply anything was wrong with donating time or money.

[mwc]

I didn't mean to imply anything was wrong with donating time or money.

Maybe using "wrong" in that way was a bad choice of words on my part. I meant it along the lines of "So what's stopping you now that you're out of church?" It's just not a formal 10% baseline and give even if it hurts mindset anymore but there are plenty of worthy causes out there. You named one you seemed to like. So? What's stopping you? I see nothing wrong with it.

 

I personally donate what I can, when I can (which can translate into nothing for long stretches), but it's not "formal" like it was in church (a buck in the plate if I had one for the envelope depending on how business was doing). I would guess I give more money now but it's because it goes to causes I want to support and not some guilt based "have to" (here comes the plate during the song interlude). I do tend to actually get a receipt for tax reasons which is something the church didn't give me (it's win-win). People no longer get can after can of beets and whatever other crap has been sitting on my shelf for eons since I if I hand over food it's usually bought for that reason instead of "Oh shit! Today's that stupid can drive thing and I can't show up without something." Want to versus have to tends to translate into more and better in my experience.

 

mwc

[Spiderwire]

What a nasty can o' worms you've opened, my friend! I'll try to be brief...

 

When I became a Christian in 1998, I made up my mind to BE A CHRISTIAN or not be one at all. The pastor said give 10% of my income and I did from that point on. Faithfully. Even when we could have really used that money - even when we needed it. A couple of years later, another pastor asked me if I tithed from my gross or net income, and when I told him that I gave 10% of my "take home pay", he told me I was robbing God and being dishonest by claiming I was giving the full tithe. He reminded me of what happened to Ananias and Saphira and told me that if I was saying I was giving 10% of my income when I actually wasn't, I was in grave danger. So, 10% of my gross income became the standard. Anytime and everytime there was a special offering or a love offering or an emergency offering or whatever kind of offering, I gave and was generous in my giving. God loves a cheerful giver, right? So I was faithful and generous in all my financial giving. Without a doubt, Malachi 3:10 was my motivation for tithing and giving. Even giving away 10% of my gross income and writing a check every single time there was a financial need or request of any kind, it wasn't unusual to feel very guilty that I wasn't doing enough because I was regularly reminded that in the "first church" from the book of Acts, they gave EVERYTHING.

 

It wasn't until a little over three years ago that I started seeing how the tithe - at least in the last church I was a member of - was utilized. The vast majority of it went to pay the staff and a huge slice of what was left over went for heating, cooling, upkeep, and insurance for a huge building. A lot of money was spent on pizza parties and weekly/monthly youth events. The cost for VBS was astronomical in my opinion - especially since VBS is basically a week-long religious daycare and none of the "unchurched" kids return to the property unless there's another party of some kind. That left very little funds (a few hundred dollars a month) to work with and most of that did go to a combination of charitible church organizations in the local area and in the state. I decided that the money I work so hard for shall not be spent in such a manner any longer.

 

I feel like - no, I know I wasted tens of thousands of dollars by giving it to the church. And, no windows from heaven opened up and poured out any blessings for me.

 

There is an elderly German lady in our neighborhood who has no husband or family. I've been giving her $100 a month for about eight years now and I put propane in her tank during the winter. She now receives 10% of my gross income along with the full propane tank. I see the effects of my giving now. I know it's actually helping someone.

[Purple]

There is an elderly German lady in our neighborhood who has no husband or family. I've been giving her $100 a month for about eight years now and I put propane in her tank during the winter. She now receives 10% of my gross income along with the full propane tank. I see the effects of my giving now. I know it's actually helping someone.

 

That is so awesome!

[Pecker]

Thanks Spider...

 

I actually made my neighbors car payment for him. He's a good guy, and lost his job. I made his car payment so he could could avoid reposession and keep looking for a job.

 

Well, he found a new job that pays more than before. He offered to pay me back a few weeks ago, but I told him to find someone else that needs help.

 

I still think giving is very fun.

[Spiderwire]

I'm not wanting to sound like I'm "something" or "someone". I'm not by any means. You asked the questions and I answered them. Perhaps my charity overshadows the immense hatred I feel toward the churches that have flagrantly wasted my money and the money of others. I guess for any good points I may rack up for helping someone, I'm in the negative for wishing every church I pass would burst into flames and explode.

 

Tithing - and Malachi 3:10 - is a sore subject with me because, like John 14:13,14, it lead to crushing disappointment and the crumbling of the things I'd built my life upon. God, in the Bible, says, "Test me on this. Not only will I show up, but I'll show out." Jesus, in the Bible, says, "I'll do anything you ask in my name just to bring glory to God, so ask!" Lies. All lies. Terrible, terrible lies. I believed them with all my heart and gave my money and knelt in prayer pouring my heart out - and I got nothing. I saw nothing. I heard plenty of excuses and plenty of reasons why I wasn't doing things for the right reasons or that my faith wasn't strong enough or that my reward was in heaven and I'd see it all one fine day. How utterly devastating it was to come to the realization that all of that shit was a bill of goods and I bought it hook, line, and sinker!!! What a fool I was.

 

I don't need a book or a preacher to tell me helping someone is a good thing to do. I know that there is one person on the planet who won't have to worry about food, clothing, a roof over her head, or warmth - and some of the nice things that make life a little more enjoyable when you have no one else. I feel good about myself knowing that I'm making her life better. She's a kind woman and she deserves it. I think if I didn't give her a dime, she'd be more than happy that I stop in and visit with her. But I do what I do for her because I hope that someday someone would do that for me if I needed it... or my wife... or my children. I guess, ultimately, that makes me selfish. And, again, to put myself in the negative, every time I write her a check and pay that propane truck driver, I'm doing my part to cripple a dying church and a lying religion.

[Lapdog]

I never tithed. I just didn't see things the way the church administration probably did.

 

However, I will encourage my children to save 10% of everything they earn. I think THAT's a good idea.

[bush country]

There is an elderly German lady in our neighborhood who has no husband or family. I've been giving her $100 a month for about eight years now and I put propane in her tank during the winter. She now receives 10% of my gross income along with the full propane tank. I see the effects of my giving now. I know it's actually helping someone.

 

Spider - that really is fantastic!

 

So far I have not told my wife of my deconversion so we still go to church. We have been married only about 18 months. Right after we married we had a discussion about tithing and I pointed out some things about the church we attend. Just built a $15 million children's building, the pastor owns a new 3500 sq. ft. house, he also has two big suv's and a Lexus. The church wastes a lot, we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars, replacing electronic equipment (cameras, smart lights, speakers) because they don't match or new models come out. The result of this discussion is that we made a list of charities that we would support instead of tithing. We came up with the following:

 

Cook Children's Medical Center (Fort Worth, Texas)

Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation (Oklahoma City)

The Ovarian Cancer Research Fund (ocrf.org)

Lone Star SPCA (our local SPCA)

 

I only tithed for a few years, but did have it up to the 10% (post tax) mark. The house I had at the time was paid for so it wasn't a strain to do it. About a year before I remarried, I woke up one day and thought - why am I making the preacher's house payment instead of my own? Sure, mine was paid for, but it was smaller, older, and the only reason I had it was because my ex couldn't make the payment when we got divorced. In fact, I didn't want the house when we bought it. So I said the heck with tithing, sold my old house, bought a new one, and I love it! And I did all of that before deconverting!

 

So yeah, it feels good to donate to something that will do someone, or some animal, some real tangible good instead of pouring money into a fairy tale and supporting people that are just leeches on society.

[Trev]

Great topic. That was something I tested, too, and I learnt the hard way that I was wasting my money. For most of the last years I was attending church, I was not tithing at all and noticed there was no difference to my lifestyle.

 

When I first deconverted I made an informal study of spending 10% of my income on lottery tickets and the like, and noticed slightly better results than tithing.

 

I have not had much money for years so I haven't been in much of a position to give to anyone financially, but I have had a lot of spare time and tried to spend some time helping people I need it around their house, just doing their dishes and cooking for them, little things like that. There is a lot of older retired people where I live at the moment with no-one to talk to so even talking to them when you see them out could make someone's day.

 

I also support a local St Vincent de Paul thrift store by giving them some of my time when I can, and by donating leftover goods that I am finished with such as clothing, books, and CDs. While they are a Christian organisation, they don't force their dogma down anyone's throats; they help people who genuinely need it with food, counselling, shelter, cloting, and goods.

 

When I do have money to give, I like to support this store as well, and also AIDs research and cancer research. I don't know anyone who has had cancer, but I do know a few people who are HIv positive; I just think they're both great causes.

[Vendredie]

MY parents never tithed when we went to church. Most of the times we did go to church were when my dad was out of a job and thus we didn't have a lot of money. Tithing was not a good idea. All of your tithes and offerings go directly to the church.

[WCrystal]

Never really gave much moneys to the offering plate, but I did give a few dollars that I could have spent on something better, especially when I was shit broke and needed the money -- I gave it anyways.

 

Now that I'm not there anymore, I spend my time and money on things that I feel are important: Friends and family who need it if I can help within my means, and volunteering my time (when I have the time) for causes that I choose.

[Eric_PK]

The majority of church donations go to maintain the social club that is the church. There's the mortgage to pay, utility bills, staff salaries, etc. That's not any different that belonging to a health club - you pay dues so that you can use the facilities. Except that it's tax deductible, and many people view it as "charity".

 

There is a portion of donations that go to help people directly, though my experience is that that's a small fraction (say, 10% or less) of the normal donations (food drives, unicef drives, etc. are different).

 

That's my long-winded way of saying that you weren't giving 10% to help people.

 

Having said that, I applaud you for giving money to a charity that directly helps out people. I've gotten very discerning in who I donate to - I donate to Population connection, seti, CSI (not the TV show), a local transitional housing concern, a local aids hospice, planned parenthood, and a fair number that I've forgotten here. I refuse to donate to united way because of their religious affiliation.

[Etchison]

15 years X 10% = 1.5 years income given to a church that did nothing for me in return. The Bible says they should feed the widows and orphans, but since the government does that--they buy real estate!

 

Every time I see an expensive church building I think one thing: I WANT MY MONEY BACK!