Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Please help save my marriage! (a little long)


mwc

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

 

I'm not into online forums and all but I am so desparate I'm trying everything I can (no offense to those who like forums...I'm just more of a lurker). My story is kind of long so I'm just going to give some basic background before I get to my actual problem.

 

Anyhow, I've recently became an ex-Christian. I thought my wife and I were on the same page but recently (a few months ago) she declared a "renewed" faith. The circumstances surrounding it were such that I got pissed and we argued a lot (had the circumstances been different I probably wouldn't have cared). Anyhow, after a series of events my wife became an apocalyptic, KJV1611, fundie. My worse fear come true really. Actually, to compound the problem we very recently found out my wife is pregnant and may lose the baby. I said something stupid (inappropriate) about miscarriages and now (combined with two outbursts not directed at her) I'm painted as trying to kill the baby!

 

She met up with these folks: http://www.thechurchofliberty.com. I should quickly mention all this was in secret and I stumbled upon it via Google search for names she uses. Anyhow, once I read the site I told her to stop. It seems innocent enough but when you've been down that path you can see the red flags everywhere. Push came to shove and I nearly went mad dealing with this (I won't go into details but I beat up a door and, when she suddenly moved out, I smashed her computer to shit). She won't listen to me anymore. We're seeing a Christian counselor she chose but doesn't trust (he seems uneasy with my beliefs but overall he's doing a great job being neutral).

 

The problem are the outside influences from the web people she met. Right before she left my wife got emails containing the following snippet (I won't post the whole thing) "He is sick and you need to get away from him and let him find healing and God for himself! We can all pray for him , but you need to go!", "Satan is the orchestrator and [mwc] is a fine tuned instument." (brackets are my edit), "If you see anymore blood call them right away, don't wait for [mwc], he may not help in time!" (with regard to miscarrying), "Are you sure he never dabbled in wicka or something like that?" Another "friend" helps with "So, go to a place where your husband cannot have physical access to you. STOP supporting him .........and I do believe that is coming from the Lord ...and I mean completely STOP." (I have several health issues, one of which mimics strokes, and so my wife works a very good job to support us while I take care of the home), "Please do not be alone with [mwc] and do not discuss your plans with him. Just leave and always have someone with you if you have to return to pick up anything." And (almost finally) "You do not need to fear ... but you do need to use wisdom and act. And know that once your husband realizes you really mean business ........there is a good possibility that he will beg you to come back and make all kinds of promises ........[mwc's wife] DON'T FALL FOR THAT ... IT is deception and a trick ... it happens over and over ........the only thing that will change your husband is salvation and a personal relationship with Christ Jesus .......he cannot change himself. Don't listen to his promises or fall for any momentary good intentions...... wait on the Lord in this ............" I sent my wife flowers today and have tried to stop arguing when I see her thinking this would help my situation. Boy was I wrong. I played into her prediction. Finally, (I'm skipping all the others comparing me to Satan and saying I'm possessed, etc.) "Know that we are all praying for you and we truly care ........not only for you and your little one ...but for Mike also ............you see Denise ... my hope and my prayer is that in all this you find our Lord's perfect will and walk in it ...and in doing so that your husband will come to know Christ Jesus as His Savior and Lord ...and become the man God intended him to be ...and that your marriage be put back together in Christ Jesus ............." Now they care.

 

Okay, so I'm sorry for the long post and all but I'm really desparate. This "cult" is taking over my wife's life and has turned her against me to the extreme. My wife is hedging a bit which has caused one of the people "working" her to cut off contact (very cult-like). I offered to go to church (an established one...I was Lutheran so maybe something like that) with my wife if she cut off contact with these "friends" (she's known them maybe a month or two from what I can tell and only known me for 14 years). Anyhow, she laughed and called me controlling. Obviously, it's not about me going back to church it's about me becoming one of them (and I bet that wouldn't do it). After reading some of these messages I see the words that my wife has been saying to me as if they were her own (I called her on it saying she was spewing out others words and she denied it). The last few months have been hell.

 

I don't know if anyone here has successfully saved a marriage at this point in the game but I'm sure as hell going to try. My "real" wife was one of the sweetest people I've ever met and I love her very much (I just don't care for the "loving" fundie christian stranger that's in her now). I can't go to her family (I tried) and they turned the cold shoulder. Her parents aren't religious but they don't care or see the problem either (I'm the bad man wanting to hurt their daughter/grandkid). I feel one of my "episodes" coming on (stress brings them on more quickly and severely) so I may not be able to read up on responses until it passes (usually less than a day) but please post up any info/advice/whatever that you can. I'm racing against the clock on this one.

 

Thank you very much,

 

mwc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've read only part of your posting, but what I read is enough to make me feel sick. :vent:

 

What do to now? My cynical, but kind of serious reply is "shoot her". Not literally, of course, but from the impression I get, I guess she's lost. Lost to the death cult. She seemingly absorbed all the safety net bullshit along with the basic doctrine, like that "See? He starts making promises to get you back! Saaaaaaataaaaaaan at work!!!!1111!!!!!". :banghead:

 

I'm so sorry for you pal. Another proof for why christianity, in its current form, must die. Either completely, or at least all the scripture et al must be thoroughly cleansed of everything that can be abused by cult Führers.

 

Without further details, there's nothing more I can say. And I'm not sure that I could if you posted more info.

 

Fucked up situation indeed. :Hmm:

 

(EDIT)

 

Note that I've never been a fundie myself, so maybe I'm not the best source of advice here. But I'm sure others will try to help you too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Um, stupid question perhaps, but have you gone to marriage counseling? Find a professional who won't push your wife's beliefs onto you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

I feel your pain and frustration, but there is there nothing you can do.

 

You cannot control your wife's mind anymore than she can control yours.

 

I told my wife when we were married that I am what I am - blemishes and all - and I'm not willing or even capable of changing significantly. My core personality has remained the same regardless of religion or lack of religion. My core personality hasn't changed significantly since I was a little kid.

 

Obviously my ideas have changed over the years. I'm no longer a Christian for one thing. However, I'm still the same basic person.

 

Our arrangement is mutual. I don't expect her to change to suit me any more than she expects me to change to suit her. My mind is free and so is hers. I don't have to agree with her on everything, and she doesn't have to agree with me on everything.

 

We accept each other as separate and free individuals.

 

Let me add that we are both faithful monogamous types, and we took 3 years to figure as much about each other as we could before exchanging rings.

 

My point here:

 

If one day my wife tells me she is joining a religious cult - she has every right to do so. I don't OWN her. She can do whatever she likes. If I can't tolerate that arrangement, then I know where the door is. I might not agree with her decision, but there are lot's of things she and I don't entirely agree on. But so what? Who made me her deity?

 

Conversely I have the same rights. We are both free.

 

If, after a few months in the cult she tells me she has to leave me - well - she can do that too. Once again - I do not own my wife and she does not own me. We are both free human beings free to choose our own life paths.

 

We've had that understanding since day one and we recently passed our Th wedding anniversary. We fully expect to see many more.

 

Anyway, you asked for advice. Hopefully you can glean something useful from these few lines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am sorry for what you're having to go through. I'm not inclined to give advice here, since my marriage (though it was a lengthy one) ultimately failed. The only thing I'll point out is that a lot of marriages do fail, so while you are attempting to salvage it (and I hope you're successful, because divorce generally sucks), make sure you take care of yourself (financial, practical, social, emotional needs) and at least have some plans in place in the event it doesn't work out. Then use as much energy and focus as you can muster to try to work things out. No easy way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mwc,

 

This is what I think you should do. Find out more about this Church or group. See if there are people that have left, or if there are people that can tell if this is a real cult, I mean one of these locked-behind-door-never-to-see-your-family cults. Because then I think you have a responsibility to save her from it.

 

Now if it is a regular Christian church, but just a extreme version, you still have to find more and learn what they teach. Do it from their website and where ever you can, because you need ammo, you need to be able to argue about what they claim to preach.

 

For instance I save their declaration said "To show the 'World' what the true, pure love of Jesus looks like", and that opens up a question you can ask your wife "Is your behaviour to break up our marriage how you show the pure love of Jesus looks like?" She has to see that her actions are not according to the fluffy, huggable and plush gospel they try to convey, and not the messages you read either.

 

In the messages you read, I see the Church is deliberately trying to break you two up. They accuse you and spread doubt in her about you. This is totally un-Biblical, unethical and immoral, so they not only commit great sins, but they act as agents for Satan.

 

Do you see how I argue here? I personally don't believe in God or Satan or the Bible, but you have to argue based on if it was true, and their actions are totally against what they claim thay believe. But you have to show it to your wife first of all, not the Church since they will be in majority and well immersed in their teachings. Your wife maybe can be saved from it still.

 

Do you know what brought this on? The change, did it start because of the pregnancy, or could it be something else? Did she meet someone? Maybe she made a friend somewhere that started to push her and use the cult methods of bombarding with arguments most people don't have answers for?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're seeing a Christian counselor she chose but doesn't trust
Anyhow, after a series of events my wife became an apocalyptic, KJV1611, fundie. My worse fear come true really. Actually, to compound the problem we very recently found out my wife is pregnant and may lose the baby. I said something stupid (inappropriate) about miscarriages and now (combined with two outbursts not directed at her) I'm painted as trying to kill the baby!

she certainly sounds like a true christian, contradicting and jumping the gun to fast....

 

 

The problem are the outside influences from the web people she met. Right before she left my wife got emails containing the following snippet (I won't post the whole thing) "He is sick and you need to get away from him and let him find healing and God for himself! We can all pray for him , but you need to go!", "Satan is the orchestrator and [mwc] is a fine tuned instument." (brackets are my edit), "If you see anymore blood call them right away, don't wait for [mwc], he may not help in time!" (with regard to miscarrying), "Are you sure he never dabbled in wicka or something like that?" Another "friend" helps with "So, go to a place where your husband cannot have physical access to you. STOP supporting him .........and I do believe that is coming from the Lord ...and I mean completely STOP." (I have several health issues, one of which mimics strokes, and so my wife works a very good job to support us while I take care of the home), "Please do not be alone with [mwc] and do not discuss your plans with him. Just leave and always have someone with you if you have to return to pick up anything." And (almost finally) "You do not need to fear ... but you do need to use wisdom and act. And know that once your husband realizes you really mean business ........there is a good possibility that he will beg you to come back and make all kinds of promises ........[mwc's wife] DON'T FALL FOR THAT ... IT is deception and a trick ... it happens over and over ........the only thing that will change your husband is salvation and a personal relationship with Christ Jesus .......he cannot change himself. Don't listen to his promises or fall for any momentary good intentions...... wait on the Lord in this ............" I sent my wife flowers today and have tried to stop arguing when I see her thinking this would help my situation. Boy was I wrong. I played into her prediction. Finally, (I'm skipping all the others comparing me to Satan and saying I'm possessed, etc.) "Know that we are all praying for you and we truly care ........not only for you and your little one ...but for Mike also ............you see Denise ... my hope and my prayer is that in all this you find our Lord's perfect will and walk in it ...and in doing so that your husband will come to know Christ Jesus as His Savior and Lord ...and become the man God intended him to be ...and that your marriage be put back together in Christ Jesus ............." Now they care.
woah, these are some MESSED up peepz... and your wife doesnt see that? o.o may tunare be with u
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

I have to agree with Madame M on this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Um, stupid question perhaps, but have you gone to marriage counseling?  Find a professional who won't push your wife's beliefs onto you.

 

Yeah, we're in counseling right now. I've been twice and she's been once. She wouldn't even entertain a secular counselor, and since I don't care as long as the counselor is a pro, she picked a Christian counselor. She seems wary of him though like he's not a "real Christian" (by her current standards few people are though).

 

mwc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you see how I argue here? I personally don't believe in God or Satan or the Bible, but you have to argue based on if it was true, and their actions are totally against what they claim thay believe. But you have to show it to your wife first of all, not the Church since they will be in majority and well immersed in their teachings. Your wife maybe can be saved from it still.

 

Yeah. I'll have to do some research and pick the right time/situation/way to bring this up.

 

Do you know what brought this on? The change, did it start because of the pregnancy, or could it be something else? Did she meet someone? Maybe she made a friend somewhere that started to push her and use the cult methods of bombarding with arguments most people don't have answers for?

 

From what I have discovered she started looking at bleak economic web sites (collapse of the economy type stuff). She started talking to a guy about Peak Oil and it transitioned to religion (peak oil christianity). She went along for a short time but when he whipped out his Universalist views she recoiled and went seeking the "truth."

I got the impression they didn't end on happy terms (she seemed to have a real emotional investment in him...which made me initially think affair but I know my wife isn't like that) and fought a lot about doctrine/theology (like I was doing to her at the same time not knowing the whole situation). She said, at least once, that there was a guy online that she said was a lot like me (in a good way back then). This seems to have started with him around April this year and ended around mid-June. The Church stuff started end of June (she was probably reading their stuff awhile before though). We didn't find out she was pregnant until July 2nd (the day before our 12th anniversary). It bothers me that we agreed to wait to tell anyone, and our families would be first, but she told her "friends" that night.

 

mwc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the input everybody it is really appreciated. I wasn't looking for a way to force her to do one thing or another (I don't care if she's a Christian...just not this way since it's obviously not working for us) but more along the lines of how can I stop this train wreck from happening. I think that if the momentum can be taken out of it all then there will be a chance for reconcilliation.

 

I tried offering to attend church with her as a compromise (I figured it's about half way for both of us) but she didn't go for it (she's in a place where established churches are corrupt). I just with I could stop her "friends" from whispering in her ear. To me they are obviously the most destructive force at the moment. I think I'll see what I can really find out about this "church" and try to take a more "lukewarm" approach with my wife. I hope she continues the marriage counseling with me but I can't read her anymore so I'm taking that one visit at a time. I understand that marriages fall apart but for both of us we were the first everything. First date, first love, first sex, first marriage and so on. I don't know how to deal with a breakup much less one that's happening like this (I'm surprised she seems to be having an easy time...maybe god's helping her out since he's obviously pissing on me right now?).

 

Anyhow, that's again for listening and all your advice. I'll be lurking around in case someone has something to add to all this.

 

mwc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate to say it, but that tipped me off that she is pretty far into the end time paranoia.

Oh, she's big into the 2nd coming right now. I looked at her browser cache (before I wrecked her PC) and there were sites explaining how the Pope is the false prophet or antichrist. Her new "friends" seem to be into hidden prophecy encoded in the Bible (you just have to learn to read it the "right way" in the spirit).

 

such.  You mentioned that your wife is in danger of losing the pregnancy.  Is she right now relying by faith that God will maintain her pregnancy and that the baby will be OK?  If so, she is likely to see everything in two lights right now- from God and from Satan- even more so than she would not being in a time of "high faith".  Because you are not saved, she may see you as a corrupting influence in the home who is bring in demonic oppression so that her faith prayers might not be heard.  She also might feel very dependant on her believing friends to uplift her in prayer and be prayer warriors in faith on her behalf.  I was in a similar circumstance once, so I'm kind of thinking

Unfortunately this sounds plausable. I can't say for sure since she's not around anymore but the emails I've read suggest just this. One particularly disturbing email (you wanted to know if getting personal offended me) describes the last time we were, let's say, intimate. We had been fighting a lot and nothing happened for weeks. I got in the mood and, well, something happened. Two days later she's in the ER and the doctor tells her no sex. She writes to her "friends" and tells them that "something " (I'm guessing my personal demon that hates the baby. Not to demean my own child but it must be something really special to get this much attention from Satan and pals.) must have known that she, and the baby, was in a vulnerable state and sex could cause the baby to be killed. This is why I had sex with her two days prior to the actual warning from the doctor.

 

mwc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, she's big into the 2nd coming right now.  I looked at her browser cache (before I wrecked her PC) and there were sites explaining how the Pope is the false prophet or antichrist.  Her new "friends" seem to be into hidden prophecy encoded in the Bible (you just have to learn to read it the "right way" in the spirit).

Unfortunately this sounds plausable.  I can't say for sure since she's not around anymore but the emails I've read suggest just this.  One particularly disturbing email (you wanted to know if getting personal offended me) describes the last time we were, let's say, intimate.  We had been fighting a lot and nothing happened for weeks.  I got in the mood and, well, something happened.  Two days later she's in the ER and the doctor tells her no sex.  She writes to her "friends" and tells them that "something " (I'm guessing my personal demon that hates the baby.  Not to demean my own child but it must be something really special to get this much attention from Satan and pals.) must have known that she, and the baby, was in a vulnerable state and sex could cause the baby to be killed.  This is why I had sex with her two days prior to the actual warning from the doctor.

 

    mwc

Man! That is so fucked up. I hope she's just going through a period because of the pregnancy with the hormones out of balance, and she eventually come to her senses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.