Something That Really Hurts Me

[pitchu]

Yeah, I’m back. I’m imperfect. I’m sometimes precipitous, even though I admonish others not to be. I apologize for my precipitousness. I apologize to those Young Ones here who asked me not to leave; I owe them a better example than what I gave them. I apologize to Dave for an unnecessary uproar. I apologize to TF for emailing him with unmerciful regularity during this painful time for me.

 

And I apologize for any misunderstanding I created when I said, in my departing post, “I cannot belong to a group which would allow…etc.” I certainly did not mean that I considered that Ex-C had a policy of tolerating hate speech. I was referring to the fact that at the time I wrote and posted my departure, there were no posts challenging any of the content of the "Something That Really Pisses Me Off" thread. Such posts did come, with at least four members of Ex-C making clear what they felt to be erroneous and/or uncalled-for. I thank those posters with a deep gratitude. Those posts made it possible for me to reflect, re-examine, and return.

 

Before I say more, I want to clarify another point. When my husband posted, he had no time to edit because his computer was giving the familiar “I’m going to freeze up” signs, and he had to post immediately or lose about an hour and a half’s worth of difficult (you can’t know how difficult) endeavor. Had this not happened, not only would the typing errors have been eliminated, but the phrase which seemed, understandably, to give some members problems would have been better written. He wrote, “Jews run the World Bank? I guess that sounds rational to somebody on this list…” meaning, “the ‘somebody,’ in particular, who said it;” he didn’t mean “anyone who would be a member of Ex-C.”

 

Now. About the hurt.

 

It’s a good thing if people learn. It’s a good thing if people come to understand one another better. It’s a good thing if people have personal break-throughs. It’s not a good thing if these good things come at too expensive a price when they needn’t.

 

If I came across a thread admonishing me not to “take personally” the up-coming vitriolic rant about Seminole Indians and I started then to read about how “most of them” act all superior because their religion says the Great Sun shines only to bless their faces, and how, because they went and got their religion and their bloodlines all twisted together so’s you can’t condemn their stupid religion without causing them to accuse you of being anti-Seminolic, and – oh, yeah -- that time three quarters of their population were drowned by the KKK in that swamp, well, their old “aren’t we more special than anybody else” attitudes kinda brought that on, and, besides, ever since that mass drowning all the rest of us are just supposed to be, oh, so very sensitive about them and everything…

 

And… if I then posted that my husband, child, dead best friend and most of my associates were Seminoles, I would expect something back. As an Ex-Christian on a site that supports same, I would expect something. What? I dunno… questions, maybe, about… do I feel that my loved ones are being included in this rant? How do I, myself, see these problems about Seminoles, since Seminoles seem to be veritably falling out of my closets? Or I might think that someone would say something on the order of, “Remember, we’re talking about Pitchu’s family, here, unless we make some clarifications or recognitions or distinctions, or something.” Some acknowledgement of what I’d said. There was none.

 

If my Jewish husband and son had been viciously verbally attacked somewhere, I would be so upset and angry that I’d rush to post about it, and I’m confident I would receive a swarm of concern from my fellow members here.

 

So, see, what hurts… is the feeling… warranted or not… that here is exactly where they got attacked.

[Merlinfmct87]

Pitchu:

 

I don't know the full context of this whole mess. While the posts were being made I was busy tinkering with my computer and by the time I got up you had already left, so I felt no incentive to pursue the matter further - the damage was done as I saw it. I probably should read the damn thing before I post just to get context, but I'm far too tired at the moment.

 

I can certainly think of worse reasons for leaving here than tolerance for hate speech.

 

I'll make a more in-depth post tomorrow. For now, I just want to applaud you for sticking to your morals when it looked like everyone else was against them. That's one of the hardest things to do and you stuck to your guns.

 

Merlin

[Thurisaz]

It's okay Pitchu. I don't think there's any need for you to apologize. Though of course I could have missed something... that's always possible.

 

(((((Pitchu and her hubbie)))))

[Checkmate]

probably one of my earlier posts with "less" was better.  But I don't care right now.

 

 

Pitchu -- I'm glad you've come back. It made me sad when you left (particularly under such circumstances).

 

 

Zoe -- I STILL understand you and support your INTENDED message.

 

 

ALL -- Can we NOW put this affair behind us, or shall we continue to open wounds and shred one another mercilessly?

[webmdave]

Welcome back Pitchu!

 

Zoe, you've been around here a long time. I remember you being pretty offended one time when someone was ripping Wicca to shreds.

 

Words have power and sometimes the words we use have much more power than we realize or even intend. If you're willing to take a suggestion, consider this whole episode a learning experience instead of a personal confrontational affront.

 

And, I may be wrong, but I don't think the "someone" Pitchu was talking about was you anyway. If it was, she can say so, but looking over the whole discussion, it was another poster that made the particularly offensive and rude comments.

 

From my vantage point all religions are nothing more than myth. I neither hate nor love someone because of their religion anymore than I hate or love them for their hair styles or wardrobes. I may not like the way some people dress, but that is not the real person, just that person's idea of style.

 

There are some Christians that I can't stand, and there are some Christians I consider friends. I don't care for the religion of either group.

 

I've had good Jewish friends over the years, and whether we as non-Jews can really comprehend it or not, many Jewish people are very sensitive to anti-Semitism. The plague of anti-Semitism has dogged history since Constantine made Christianity the one true religion. Long endurance of the centuries of hatred and persecution is deeply ingrained in the Jewish psyche, and no wonder after nearly two millenia of that.

 

Although not entirely the same thing, a minority issue that may be closer to American minds is the racial tension in this country. The blacks in this nation were treated horrifically for a few hundred years as apposed to the 1500 years or so the Jews have put up with, yet we all know it's going to take generations before we have real unity between blacks and whites. Granted we are not "officially" a segregated nation anymore, but blacks hang with blacks and whites hang with whites everywhere you go. From what I've seen most black people do not believe they have all the same advantages in life that white people have. I live in a mixed neighborhood and too many times black youths have yelled "stupid whitey" at the top of their lungs as I drive by - one of those times was just a few days ago. It pisses me off - sure, but no one does anything. Whites don't rush out the doors, violence doesn't erupt, in fact nobody seems to even notice. Now if I were to start yelling "nigger" what do you think would happen? Do you think I would be ignored? Black people are more sensitive to racial slurs than white people.

 

When people condemn Christians, we don't feel personally offended because we are not Christians. We left that tribe! When you are a Jew, you are a Jew for life. Atheistic Jews were gassed along side Hasidic Jews in WWII. It was a racial pogrom, not religious.

 

So, choosing the right words is important. I choose not to say "nigger" no matter how many times I'm called "cracker." I choose my words not because I want to be so damnably politically correct, and I am not even slightly afraid of a fight, but I restrain myself because I am sensitive to what those words mean to others. "Nigger" is a terrible word to a black person. "Whitey" just makes me think "yeah, so?"

 

Likewise, when someone makes flippant remarks like "Jews run the banks," or something equally idiotic, it is particularly offensive because that kind of asinine hate speech is exactly what filled the papers and people's conversations in Europe prior to WWII.

 

I'd be sensitive too.

[Amethyst]

Glad to see you back!

[dogmatically_challenged]

I am very glad that your back Pitchu. Very glad.

 

On any board anyware there will always be people who make such silly claims. I was johny come late to that thread, because I spend most my time in Debating Christians thread. I caught the thread late.

 

When people make remarks like that I don't know how to answer. I don't believe a race is trying to take over the world. That notion seeems silly to me. I now have something to rub someones face in , when such comments come up again. And those comments will come up again and again everywhere on the web.

 

I pick my hero's well. (Hans.)

 

Some of my relatives are bigots. I get a little touchy on the subject. Growing up I felt like a freak when in public with some of them.

 

I apologize for feeling offended and misunderstanding. I am sorry for calling your husband superstitious. I was just angry that you were leaving.

 

 

At any rate, I am just relieved that your back, dear Pitchu.

[Guest Roamin' Lion]

I come here to discuss issues and to comment.

 

I am sure those who get so emotional think we are all focusing on that, but honestly, I don't care very much. I do not comb all threads when I come here.

 

If you are testing the waters to see who will come running because you are all upset (and this can be a rhetorical "you") then it is childish and manipulative.

 

Adults say what they have to say, not to see if anyone will come running to beg them to return. Adults clarify and either stand by their opinions or take correction, but they don't run around going off on people just see who will react how.

 

However, maybe there are threads that need to be ranting threads which serve the purposes of those still emotionally in need of support in their journey.

 

Maybe they can be marked with a special symbol.

 

Here is another thought. We are all human and none of has a direct line to truth with a capital T. Some of us may have opinions that are half baked and some of us have broad experience and education which gives us an edge on certain topics. The same people might be ignorant about one thing who are really good with another issue. However, being so attached to your ideas or what you say can be silly and cause these net tantrums which I find as offensive as tantrums in real life.

[pitchu]

Thanks to everyone for responding.

 

Imo, a purely intellectual discussion is a rare bird, indeed. I wish it were possible more often to keep issues separate from emotions, but probably all of us are emotionally invested, to a greater or lesser degree, in most of the issues that arise here.

 

It wasn't any easy thing for me to admit that at the core of my departure was a feeling of being wounded. How much more erudite it would have sounded if I could have claimed that I no longer wished to waste my time discussing important social attitudes with misinformed people incapable of framing coherent and consistent presentation. But how untrue that would have been.

 

Wise or not, I am emotionally invested in the people here, some more than others. When those here whom I've grown close to, and whom I like and admire, seem to me to espouse very personal (to me) positions which I'm incapable of integrating into the body of their other posts, my sense of shock and disconnect is immense. To this extent, I guess I'm still a child and not a grown-up. That's why I wrote "warranted or not..." I was hurt.

 

Now, though, I hope to have learned that sometimes, in such a situation, the best tack is to make a simple and non-inflammatory declaration of where I stand. Then wait. And wait. And wait. I don't want to do damage by being precipitous again.

[Guest Visitor]

It's great that you can express your mistakes, your openess, and your desire for acceptance despite your shortcomings. If you do that in some places you are called a religeous biggot who lies and is not dealing with reality. Isn't it great to be accepted for who you are even with any existing shorcomings?

[Ouroboros]

Good to have you back Pitchu.

 

(And welcome to you Visitor)

 

When I saw the post about the World Bank etc, it didn't shock me as much as it did you. I have about three or four friends that have said the exact same thing about the conspiracy etc, and I discussed it with them, and they admitted they were only speaking from a cultural bias and rumors. They are still my friends, and honestly I don't see them as racists, but purely gullible and uninformed. The funny thing is that one is a Catholic, one is a Buddhist, one is an Atheist and yet one is an Agnostic. But three of them are Vietnamese and one is Armenian.

 

I also noticed that one of them accepts urban legends at face value, without investigating the rumors further. She used to believe in the story that people eat aborted fetuses in China as a delicacy. And I proved her wrong.

 

Yet another friend kept on sending me emails with these stories about AIDS infected needles at the gas stations etc, and I replied back to with references to where these rumors started and how wrong they were.

 

I hope you will stay Pitchu and keep informing us and give us more insight into the things we don’t understand, and not run away from us because some of us are uninformed. We need your input. The person who posted the controversial message has admitted that he learned something that he didn’t know, and he changed his opinion, and that’s a good thing. That is a step further to mutual understanding and respect.

 

Hans

[pitchu]

It's great that you can express your mistakes, your openess, and your desire for acceptance despite your shortcomings.  If you do that in some places you are called a religeous biggot who lies and is not dealing with reality.  Isn't it great to be accepted for who you are even with any existing shorcomings?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not sure what you're saying. Could you elaborate?

[Cerise]

There's been way too much drama here lately. I hope it's over and done with now though.

[pitchu]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but you got so upset because you LIKE ME?  Now I'm going to cry...god I"m a bitch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, what do you think? I can't get hurt by statements from people who've already demonstrated to me that they're largely uncaring and unthinking -- I just conclude, "Ah, crap, more of the same."

 

I don't think you're a bitch.

 

I already cried enough for both of us.

 

C'mere, we'll sit on each others' laps and say, "There, there..." and share one of Reach's brownies.

 

(I know, I know, the response of everybody else reading this exchange is: )

[Japedo]

I'm so very happy to see you back!!!

[Fweethawt]

C'mere, we'll sit on each others' laps and say, "There, there..." and share one of Reach's brownies.

 

I've been away a day or so and I must say,

things are lookin' a bit better around here.

 

Reach is back, Cheffy is back, Pitchu is back...

 

And now, Pitchu and Zoe have made up to a point where they feel comfortable giving each other lap-dances.

 

 

Life is good.

 

 

 

Thanks for coming back, Pitchu.

[pitchu]

Thanks for the giggle, irrepressible Fwee.

 

Zoe, with that description of your relationship with your mom I understand much more.

 

(Why is it I feel like this thread is simultaneously being presented on the Lifetime channel?)

[Fweethawt]

ROFLMFAO    FWEE YOU ARE DIRTY!  NAUGHTY NAUGHTY MAN!

 

Yeah...

So?

 

.

 

 

Thanks for the giggle, irrepressible Fwee.

 

From this point on, consider me repressed.

 

(as far as this thread goes, of course)

[pitchu]

I'm so very happy to see you back!!! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for that, Japedo, and for all your kindnesses to me.

 

(And Zoe avers as how, if you're tired of staring at your computer screen, you can actually catch the contents of this thread between "Not Without My White-Slaved Daughter" and "What's That Bastard Done Now?")

[Checkmate]

Okay, Okay! Enough already! You girls are going to make this old Storm Trooper cry.

 

Let's get back to some good old fashioned thread derailing!

 

Speaking of which, "If any of you struck it rich, do you think the money would change you?"

 

[Ouroboros]

Okay, so now when we all are friends again...

 

 

Who do y'all want to piss of now? Who's next to leave/come-back? JUST KIDDING!

[Checkmate]

Okay, so now when we all are friends again...

Who do y'all want to piss of now? Who's next to leave/come-back? JUST KIDDING!

 

I'd volunteer, but I don't think anyone would care!

[pitchu]

I wouldn't want to make a storm trooper cry, TK.

 

And I sure as hell don't want to piss anybody off, Han.

 

So I think what I'll do is sleep now (to gather my strength to cause trouble later).

[Ouroboros]

I wouldn't want to make a storm trooper cry, TK.

 

And I sure as hell don't want to piss anybody off, Han.

 

So I think what I'll do is sleep now (to gather my strength to cause trouble later).

Are you sure you don't want to? It's kind of the new game we have.

 

No seriously, I'm very glad it all got sorted out.

[Reach]

Words have power and sometimes the words we use have much more power than we realize or even intend. If you're willing to take a suggestion, consider this whole episode a learning experience instead of a personal confrontational affront.

I agree. Words wield power. I'm learning to say less and I've come to know that Less is More. The truth is that people are hurt most of all by the insensitive comments made by others who have gained some measure of personal significance in their lives. Insensitive comments made by significant others. Pitchu mentioned this. It's not the words of strangers that cut so deeply. It's the words from those we care about that can create killing fields for us.

 

We choose our words. We can maim, injure or kill with them or we can use them to heal, bring comfort, wholeness and life to an individual. Which words are worthy of you? You get to choose.

 

Undealt with anger poisons more than just the carrier and that's why hurting people hurt people with their words, everyday, all the time, over and over and over again.

 

When people condemn Christians, we don't feel personally offended because we are not Christians. We left that tribe!  When you are a Jew, you are a Jew for life. Atheistic Jews were gassed along side Hasidic Jews in WWII. It was a racial pogrom, not religious.

And that's why it pays to learn to be sensitive to others. And until one can learn that lesson, exercising some discipline and self-control in order to say less is a place to begin.

 

I'm continually amazed at the messes we make and the relationships we damage or ruin because we refuse to learn these lessons and we refuse to bridle our tongues.

 

Trying to live a life with no (more) regrets has meant for me that a friend's need for sensitivity in an area is more important than my right to speak.

 

Peace.

-Reach