My Testimony (as Strange As It Is)

[Guest JString]

To any and all who are out there that are actually interested in yet another rant about Christianity, you might find my story to be interesting. Then again you might think it's total garbage. Fact is I don't even know which category fits it best, so you be the judge and do what you will with it.

 

Before you read any further I think you should know that I'm not exactly an ex-Christian, but I can't exactly call myself a Christian either. I don't know what I am, and I don't even know why I'm posting this in the first place. Some of the few things that I actually do know are as follows:

1) The vast majority of so-called "Christians" don't know jack about what they are really saying.

2) "Christianity" (as I know it at least) can be extremely detrimental for a person who is prone to negative self-esteem issues and depression.

3) The nature of reality is definately mysterious.

 

My story mostly begins when I was in my early 20's. Before that point I used to attend church with my family as a child, but I was not really a believer or anything like that. As I grew up I didn't really believe anything until I hit that stage in life where you begin questioning the true nature of reality. So, in an effort to explore all possibilities I gave prayer a try and I prayed and prayed that God would show me the truth that I was searching for...

 

The funny thing is that shortly thereafter I suffered from a stroke (yes, in my early 20's) and since I was fully conscious and ignorant as to what was happening, I thought it was the hand of God and I tried to run. About a week later I ended up nearly a thousand miles away from home, starving and dehydrated. I had seen some pretty knarly shit, and this is where it gets tricky for me.

 

In retrospect I could easily discount this whole experience as the natural effect or experience of a stroke, but the freaking weird thing about it all was that I was having these predictive dreams that would actually come true a day or two after I had them. For example, in one of my dreams I saw Jesus crushing a young man, and only a couple days later I learned that a good friend of mine had fallen 60 feet while rock climbing - he was nearly killed. I admit, the dream seems a little silly but the only way I could interpret these events was that there was definately something supernatural going on, and from there everything went downhill.

 

So I tried life as a Christian, and as alot of you probably already guessed, it didn't work. I couldn't handle the incomprehensible, mind bending, manipulative tactics employed by preachers out there today and I was nearly driven to the point of suicide on several occassions. Eventually I broke and the only conclusion that I can possibly derive from all of this is that reality is F.U.B.A.R.

 

I wish this was one of those 'doctored up' testimonies that would go on to praise God for all the things he's done for me... I even wish that this was a testimony about how I found a better life for myself as an atheist. Fact is, I'm stuck in hell on earth not having seen enough God's "goodness" to believe in heaven and having seen too much evidence of the supernatural to reject the possibility of God's existence. So like I said earlier, do what you will with this testimony because I don't know what the hell to do with it.

[Raul]

Ok,lets get this straight... You're trying to say,that you had a psychotic experience?

[Guest Denise]

Maybe you need to think about this.. if you don't have enough evidence of the "goodness of God" to believe in heaven... and attribute the supernatural events that you had to God, yet they aren't sufficient to prove the existence of God... why does that leave you in hell? If there is not sufficient evidence for you to believe in heaven... or the existence of God... wouldn't that by default not mean you don't have sufficient evidence to believe in hell either???

[Guest JString]

Ok,lets get this straight... You're trying to say,that you had a psychotic experience?

 

That's a negative. By definition, the mind of an individual suffering from psychosis is detatched from reality. As to why the events in my dreams seem to correlate to real events after the fact is beyond me.....

 

If you're asking about what it was like to go through a stroke, then yes I can say that it may have been more like a psychotic episode, but I'm not sure. Actually it felt more like my conscious mind had been shattered... most of my capacity for higher thought processes was destroyed. It took years to recover as much as I have.

[Guest JString]

Maybe you need to think about this.. if you don't have enough evidence of the "goodness of God" to believe in heaven... and attribute the supernatural events that you had to God, yet they aren't sufficient to prove the existence of God... why does that leave you in hell? If there is not sufficient evidence for you to believe in heaven... or the existence of God... wouldn't that by default not mean you don't have sufficient evidence to believe in hell either???

 

... the phrase 'hell on earth' doesn't exactly refer to a literal hell.

[Guest Denise]

I understand that... but you're looking for evidence of God's "goodness" to believe in heaven? Does that mean a literal one... or not?? Why would you need either or have any concern about either?

[Guest JString]

I understand that... but you're looking for evidence of God's "goodness" to believe in heaven? Does that mean a literal one... or not?? Why would you need either or have any concern about either?

 

The point is that I'm stuck between two camps with no way of escape. I can't believe that the Christian way is something that's good for me because of what I have been through, and I can't shake it off to become an atheist because of my experiences...

[Guest Denise]

Solo: 2) "Christianity" (as I know it at least) can be extremely detrimental for a person who is prone to negative self-esteem issues and depression.

 

The point you make here is one that many don't seem to think about. It's like how in the world could a person be to the point in their lives, and have such a low self esteem as to allow another person to make them believe they are a sinner in need of a Savior in the first place? How could that concept even be considered without a direct slap in the face of any being deemed to be a perfect Creator?

 

Then we don't think about the fact that another sinner is the one that is telling us that we are sinners and in need of a Savior... in the first place. Well if they are sinners.. what in the world would make anyone convinced to accept something that leaves you in the same position as you already are attempting to be convinced that you are... afterwards?

 

So, yes, Christianity can be extremely detrimental for a peson who is prone to negative self esteem issues and depression... and my experiences over the years have convinced me that most adults that join Christianity are those that are already dealing with low self esteem and depression in their lives in the first place. So when the condition presents itself... for whatever reason.... they become prey.

[Guest Denise]

The point is that I'm stuck between two camps with no way of escape. I can't believe that the Christian way is something that's good for me because of what I have been through, and I can't shake it off to become an atheist because of my experiences...

 

 

Did you ever consider that you are not stuck between two camps? It is entirely possible for you to know that Christianity is not good for you and you do not want to be any part of it and yet not be at the point call yourself an atheist? Just because you do not wish to identify yourself with one "camp" doesn't not require or mandate that you identify yourself with another!

[florduh]

I understand that... but you're looking for evidence of God's "goodness" to believe in heaven? Does that mean a literal one... or not?? Why would you need either or have any concern about either?

 

The point is that I'm stuck between two camps with no way of escape. I can't believe that the Christian way is something that's good for me because of what I have been through, and I can't shake it off to become an atheist because of my experiences...

 

 

Christian or Atheist aren't the only choices. There are hundreds of versions of Christianity alone, and thousands of gods you could worship. Or not. The christian Heaven/Hell mindset you have is due to a circumstance of your birth. Had you been born in the Middle East you'd likely be agonizing whether Allah was real or not.

 

Weird experiences happen for a number of reasons, and so far none have been proven to be supernatural. They just feel that way. Maybe you can be the first to have a real and provable paranormal event.

 

It is also possible to feel and act "spiritual" without acknowledging a god. Hang loose for a while and don't be in a hurry to get a label for yourself.

[TheOtherRainMan]

The thing is (I will agree with florduh) that just live and see what happens.

 

You are better off living life and let them label you, or discover what you are WAY down the road.

This was the biggest mistake that I, myself, rushed to get a label right after I deconverted.

 

The thing is that you've already taken an important step.

 

I, myself, too am struggling with a belief in God.

 

I've used logical thinking to prove that Christianity is not only illogical, but I still have a "belief" in Bible God (read: unexplained reason for believing in Bible God).

 

The part is we both suffer from one product: religious indoctrination.

 

Now, we both have the same path. Never really a believer, but things happened and I remember there was one day that I said "Must be god's will" concerning some petty matter. Even the thought of that popping into my brain shocked me. That and an "an altar calling" (it's popped up numerous times at my life, mainly from people in religious orders). I have AS, and anything such as that will definitely lead to disaster, one way or another.

 

We never chose this life or belief system.

 

The only thing I can recommend is research and to stay strong.

 

Welcome to the forums and escaping the world of Xtianity.

 

- TORM

[Spiderwire]

Welcome to the forums!

 

It doesn't matter what we "do" with your story or how we feel about it or anything of the sort. What's important is that you've found this place - a place where you can read about the thoughts, ideas, and experiences of others (some of whom have tread down the same path you find yourself on) and a place where you can express things that you may or may not be able to express anywhere else. There is no magical cure for you here, but you may find that by opening up, you can better organize what you actually think and feel. When you begin to get a handle on what is good in your life and what is possibly holding you back, it's a lot easier to deal with what's happening in your mind. No one here is going to push you in any direction. We may have some suggestions or we may have some questions for you to consider. But above all else, we're listening. Sometimes that's what a person needs the most.

 

For example, in one of my dreams I saw Jesus crushing a young man, and only a couple days later I learned that a good friend of mine had fallen 60 feet while rock climbing - he was nearly killed.

 

I wanted to comment on this statement. I'm hoping you can see how religion plants "magical" thoughts in your head that can make ordinary life so confusing and difficult to maneuver.

 

A dream is simply that. You're asleep and your brain is still kicking things around. You were obviously in a bad state at the time, both physically and mentally. There is a fear of God and Jesus that's been impressed upon you regardless of how much you're reminded that they are pure love. Jesus never crushed anyone in the scriptures, did he? I don't believe it's written that he did that. At any rate, that's what your dream was and it bothered you. Again, it was a dream and nothing more. If you dream that you're killing someone and chopping them up in little pieces, it doesn't mean that you're a killer with a desire to go dismember someone. It's a dream. They mean nothing. It's not a magical thing at all.

 

Your friend was out rock climbing, correct? Is there a possibility of someone's safety being compromised when they're hanging 60 feet off a ledge? Is there a great deal of risk involved in scaling the face of a cliff? Of course there is! Is it shocking to you, really, that your friend took a fall? Does there have to be some magical force that caused him to fall or could it have been that his strength wasn't what it needed to be at that time or some material simply gave way or that he was putting himself in a position that defied natural laws of gravity? There are a multitude of reasons why your friend took a tumble and it wouldn't be hard to find out why it happened. I'm glad he wasn't killed, but consider the fact that if he had been killed, he was involving himself in a very dangerous sport. Are you surprised when a race car driver crashes at 180 mph and his car bursts into flames? It may be shocking to witness, but it certainly isn't unusual and it's most certainly not an act of divine retribution or a supernatural display.

 

So what you have here is a dream and an event that has occured. Religion teaches that there is a force that guides everything for a purpose and sometimes those purposes are for good and sometimes not. You're attempting to make connections between the two because you've been taught and shown that God works in mysterious ways like that and that he's trying to tell us something by the course of events that have happened. The fact of the matter is that your mind manufactured that dream (for whatever reasons - remember you were physically and mentally under duress), an unfortunate event happened in your friend's life, and coincidentally, both events occured within a short span of time. They only appear to be related. The superstition that's been ingrained in you is giving you cause to consider something that is nothing but pure speculation and randomness. You had a funky dream. Your friend got hurt. While both of those events left you unsettled, they are certainly not signs of a mystical hand at work.

 

Have you sought medical treatment for the stroke? Have you been given any medical reasons why it could have happened?

 

It's going to take some time for you to be certain of some things in your life and some things you may never be certain of. But I encourage you to think as rationally as possible about your life and the things you experience and work hard to evaluate what is REALITY. Take your time. Go slow. And like florduh has suggested, don't be in a hurry to label yourself as anything. You're a human being first. Try to get being a good, healthy human being down pat before you try to uncover the mysteries of the cosmos.

 

Best of luck to you!

[Guest Art-for-Fun]

I understand that... but you're looking for evidence of God's "goodness" to believe in heaven? Does that mean a literal one... or not?? Why would you need either or have any concern about either?

 

The point is that I'm stuck between two camps with no way of escape. I can't believe that the Christian way is something that's good for me because of what I have been through, and I can't shake it off to become an atheist because of my experiences...

 

Hi- This is my first time here.

Some people have wondered why you might concern yourself with a heaven or hell, but given that we all pass on some day, and who knows what follows, I can sympathize with those concerns, in some part because, like everyone else in North America and probably Europe etc., the churches ( most of them) have assured us that we are "hell-bound" if we don't believe what they say the Bible says that Jesus said that God says!

The existence of erroneous religions does not mean that God is not. The existence of botulism does not mean that your sandwich is poison.

It sems JString that you have an inclination to maybe believe in a 'God'.

Why don't you find and read "Conversations with God", to see if you believe in that One (God). I do, and am damn glad "He"/She/It ( God) has finally come through with such a book(s). ( There are a number of them.)

These books were written by a man as frustrated as you, and so many. He started to 'hear' replies to his written questions. ( How was "scripture" written if not but such a process?) All the material has since made him a very rich man, but if you read the material, you can see why the millions of readers have indeed read!

If you want to stay on the borderline of maybe tolerating Christianity ( I love the actual Jesus, just not Christianity!) because of the bizarre and very conditional promises they tout, that's your call. But if you have what it takes to read something that dares to be true, please give yourself a break and read one or all of these books by 'God' and Neale Donald Walsch!

As someone has pointed out, there is so much more than just the Heaven/Hell propoganda of the churches.

You don't have to suffer this way!

[Deva]

If you want to stay on the borderline of maybe tolerating Christianity ( I love the actual Jesus, just not Christianity!) because of the bizarre and very conditional promises they tout, that's your call. But if you have what it takes to read something that dares to be true, please give yourself a break and read one or all of these books by 'God' and Neale Donald Walsch!

As someone has pointed out, there is so much more than just the Heaven/Hell propoganda of the churches.

You don't have to suffer this way!

 

Welcome to the forums Art-for-Fun.

 

Please let us know why we should take the word of this person, Neal Donald Walsch about God, the afterlife, or any other such matter seriously. If, as you say "who knows what follows" then why should he know? Are we to accept his special revelation from God, whatever it may be, and reject the Biblical revelation? On what grounds?

 

I am afraid you will find that most of us here, having managed to extricate ourselves from one book, don't much care to be enslaved by another, no matter if it be more palatable or not.

 

And by the way, who is the "actual" Jesus?

[florduh]

God spoke to me as well. He said, "Anyone claiming to speak for me is full of shit."

 

It was a revelation.

[Spiderwire]

The existence of erroneous religions does not mean that God is not. The existence of botulism does not mean that your sandwich is poison.

Now if that isn't the absolute most batshit crazy remark I've heard all week. What the fuck does this mean?

 

He started to 'hear' replies to his written questions. ( How was "scripture" written if not but such a process?)

This is precisely the kind of individual that I want to stay at least a country mile from.

 

You don't have to suffer this way!

He's correct with this statement... and the best way to cease suffering is to disassociate yourself from people like Art-for-Fun who will encourage you to dig into alternative religious literature and thought. Christianity, in it's present form, is warped and dangerous. Why seek out religious wingnuts who are eager to put their wacky spin on it?

[Karhoof]

God spoke to me as well. He said, "Anyone claiming to speak for me is full of shit."

Is that what you got?

 

Huh...... he told me, "Look to the origins of all the bible tales and miracles. Lo, a great many of these same things hast been done before I did do'est them and maketh them holy. Ye shall see that there were, indeed, false gods before my falseness... err... I mean, before me." <-- 'cause that's how god talks

 

That's what I got.

 

And mine was a revelation too.

[florduh]

"read one or all of these books by 'God' and Neale Donald Walsch!"

 

The audio books are really much better. Ed Asner and Ellen Burstyn are a pleasure to listen to.

 

Of course the content is just some rambling about how lots of people WISH things were, with no evidence presented that it is a "god" speaking through Mr. Walsch. Very similar to the "Seth Material" which was popular some years ago. Some lady imagined or pretended that a wise old discarnate entity spoke through her and explained the workings of the universe.

 

God speaks to me through my Magic Eight-Ball, but I'm not telling.

[Hineni]

Art-for-Fun's post makes me take a look at my own question of "Any Gods?"

 

Now, back to the subject at hand!!

 

Welcome, JString.

 

As a christian, from upbringing, and a woman now of 40 years (6-7 years, now deconverted), I had many dreams that I correlated with what I deemed were somehow attributed to the spiritual. So many I can not attempt to count. I'd say that is one thing, of many, that kept me hanging on for so, so long to the this christian god, because I knew not of any other explanation...and of the most importance, my mind would not dare let me question this god, due to doubts I had to subdue. Query of that sort must be of the adversary, himself.

 

That is key! I was taught not to question for GOD's sake!!!

 

Without doubt, where does wisdom grow? Fear breeds in it's stead.

 

As for the stroke. My husband was, oh, 'round 37-38 years when he had his first stroke. I don't recall anything other than medical/verifiable/scientific reasons for the things that followed.

 

You sound like a reasonable person, perharps there are many things we can not see from your few words that might explain the questions not asked.

 

I hope to read more from you in the futrue. Til then, be well.

 

Sincerely,

Hineni

[Hineni]

So sorry to interupt this thread, but it has to be said...........

 

florduh....YOU DA MAN, MAN!!!!!!!!!!

 

xoxoxoxoxo

[Guest Art-for-Fun]

If you want to stay on the borderline of maybe tolerating Christianity ( I love the actual Jesus, just not Christianity!) because of the bizarre and very conditional promises they tout, that's your call. But if you have what it takes to read something that dares to be true, please give yourself a break and read one or all of these books by 'God' and Neale Donald Walsch!

As someone has pointed out, there is so much more than just the Heaven/Hell propoganda of the churches.

You don't have to suffer this way!

 

Welcome to the forums Art-for-Fun.

 

Please let us know why we should take the word of this person, Neal Donald Walsch about God, the afterlife, or any other such matter seriously. If, as you say "who knows what follows" then why should he know? Are we to accept his special revelation from God, whatever it may be, and reject the Biblical revelation? On what grounds?

 

I am afraid you will find that most of us here, having managed to extricate ourselves from one book, don't much care to be enslaved by another, no matter if it be more palatable or not.

 

And by the way, who is the "actual" Jesus?

 

Thanks for the welcome, DevaLight. No one suggested that you "should" take 'the word' of this person. Walsch has repeatedly said that he has no need for anyone to 'believe' what he says. If words speak to you, you can consider them. If they don't, fine. No obligation at all. But for people for whom " Chritianity" has been nothing but a profound life-consuming misery, I would think there'd be a little more tolerence between us. I am not enslaved to these books or the other books I have also very much come to appreciate and rely on for help. All truth and wisdom do not go 'out the door' just because we refuse to accept one perverse, wide-spread perversion of it.

Are you to accept his work as a 'revelation'? Only if it comes from God, I suppose. I do not regard it as a " revelation" but as a conversation. Why? Because that's what it sounds like to me. There are lots of people, I gather, who think that those Neale Walsch books are "made up" by him. I briefly met the man. He is just not that smart! He is one person who has had nothing but trouble with the churches and its teachings. By his expressed communication, he has given literally millions a break from the " Old God". He dared to deal directly with the God that had 'let him down', as he saw it. I, for one, am grateful that he did. And it is ONLY for this reason that I even have mentioned it.

[Guest Art-for-Fun]

God spoke to me as well. He said, "Anyone claiming to speak for me is full of shit."

 

It was a revelation.

 

In the book(s) I mentioned, God speaks for himself/herself/itsself. I understand that many do not see it this way- in which case, if such people are right, then Neale Walsch would defintely have to be "full of shit". But I do not see it that way, so I have tried to give someone ( JString) some of the much valued help that I have received from these books by Walsch. No one is required to "believe" them. It seems some of you, in leaving "Christianity" have left even more than that!

[Guest Art-for-Fun]

The existence of erroneous religions does not mean that God is not. The existence of botulism does not mean that your sandwich is poison.

Now if that isn't the absolute most batshit crazy remark I've heard all week. What the fuck does this mean?

 

He started to 'hear' replies to his written questions. ( How was "scripture" written if not but such a process?)

This is precisely the kind of individual that I want to stay at least a country mile from.

 

You don't have to suffer this way!

He's correct with this statement... and the best way to cease suffering is to disassociate yourself from people like Art-for-Fun who will encourage you to dig into alternative religious literature and thought. Christianity, in it's present form, is warped and dangerous. Why seek out religious wingnuts who are eager to put their wacky spin on it?

 

It means that just because Christianity (and many other 'bad apple' religious orders exist), that all forms of communication regarding the "What Is" subject are not necessarily rotten.

The fact that Christianity is warped and dangerous... does NOT make all things warped and dangerous.

[Guest Art-for-Fun]

If you want to stay on the borderline of maybe tolerating Christianity ( I love the actual Jesus, just not Christianity!) because of the bizarre and very conditional promises they tout, that's your call. But if you have what it takes to read something that dares to be true, please give yourself a break and read one or all of these books by 'God' and Neale Donald Walsch!

As someone has pointed out, there is so much more than just the Heaven/Hell propoganda of the churches.

You don't have to suffer this way!

 

Welcome to the forums Art-for-Fun.

 

Please let us know why we should take the word of this person, Neal Donald Walsch about God, the afterlife, or any other such matter seriously. If, as you say "who knows what follows" then why should he know? Are we to accept his special revelation from God, whatever it may be, and reject the Biblical revelation? On what grounds?

 

I am afraid you will find that most of us here, having managed to extricate ourselves from one book, don't much care to be enslaved by another, no matter if it be more palatable or not.

 

And by the way, who is the "actual" Jesus?

 

I overlooked your last question, regarding the 'actual Jesus'. I had a remarkable experience once, and for me, the one I experienced remains to be "the actual Jesus". For me. 'Jesus' is is not the problem. To me, these "ordained" ministers, priest, teachers, whatever have long been the problem, feeding others what they have come to "think" are material aspects of "Jesus life and teaching". People saying what they do not "know" to be true ( they admit this much, by constantly talking about mere "belief"). In leaving behind a false "Jesus", it is not necessary to assume that there was never a real one. Anyway, I am coming to see that there has never been only " one way" to Truth or God or Reality, so one needn't concern themself with who the " real Jesus" is.

[pitchu]

Read The Guidelines For This Forum!

 

There will be no proselytizing or promoting of any particular religiously-oriented view.

 

People who post their testimonies here are to be supported in leaving christianity. Period. Only that.

 

 

 

Welcome, JString.

 

Please continue....