Guest solo Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 ugh... this whole topic just makes me sick. i went through months of very counterproductive, emotionally and psychologically destructive "christian counseling" with my ex-pastor around the time i began my deconversion (details are in my testimony, so i won't go into them too much here). he was an avid fan of jay adams, and did his best to brainwash me to believe that i was a worthless, evil sinner, not worthy of god's love or salvation, and that the reason i experience "mental issues" is because i do not pray enough, read the bible enough, etc... even going so far as to suggest that the reason i feel guilt about certain very nasty abusive things that happened to me as a child was because i actually deserved what happened to me, and i must have sinned in some way. he told me that i would have to repent of those things in order to become healed and "move on". i'm glad to say that i have had the opportunity to go through therapy and treatment with an actual psychologist and have not suffered much lasting damage from that unfortunate experience... since i have been away from this church my self-esteem and levels of anxiety and depression have improved considerably. but i am kind of upset right now about something my husband brought hom from church last sunday... it was a photocopied article from some reformed magazine about how to "help" people with depression. i am assuming the pastor gave him this and has been talking to my husband about me and saying things to turn him against me... the last few sundays my husband has gone to church he has come home very sad and despondant. i am angry that this pastor is intruding on our personal life (especially since i do not go there anymore) and trying to brainwash my husband with this garbage... the article basically describes depression as a spiritual/moral sickness that can not and shoult not be treated by psychology or medication unless it is extremely severe and every other option has been tried (although the symptoms they describe are very mild, and they never talk about risk of suicide or how to recognize or prevent it). it suggests that the best way to help a person suffering with depression is to remind them of their sinfulness and unworthiness of happiness, encouraging them to repent and turn back to god and the bible, the only thing that will comfort and heal them, freeing them from their "sadness", etc... i'm was just so disgusted and angry when i found this that i didn't know what to do! everything in me just wanted to shred it, but i do not know how my husband feels about this, or whether he even read it at all. if i threw it away without talking about it with him i know that he would miss it eventually and ask me what happened to it. i don't feel capable of having this conversation with him... because of the feelings involved and my anger with my ex-pastor/his pastor. so i decided to ignore it... but i wonder if this is the best thing to do? how can i bring this up with my husband without sounding confrontational and causing a fight? it just makes me so mad!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted September 19, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted September 19, 2008 Maybe it's time for confrontation. He's in a destructive cult and that's bound to spill over onto you. Nobody likes to fight, but how long can you keep peace with cult members who are required to be at odds with everything that is rational, kind and helpful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhoof Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 how can i bring this up with my husband without sounding confrontational and causing a fight? it just makes me so mad!!! Remember just WHO it is you're angry with. Shooting the messenger won't accomplish anything. the article basically describes depression as a spiritual/moral sickness that can not and shoult not be treated by psychology or medication unless it is extremely severe and every other option has been tried (although the symptoms they describe are very mild, and they never talk about risk of suicide or how to recognize or prevent it). it suggests that the best way to help a person suffering with depression is to remind them of their sinfulness and unworthiness of happiness, encouraging them to repent and turn back to god and the bible, the only thing that will comfort and heal them, freeing them from their "sadness", etc... Nice! Tell someone who's depressed that they are just really bad inside and to focus on just how bad they are. Just read the book and think Happy Thoughts From everything you've said earlier, it seems your hubby is a level-headed guy. Talk through the whole problem of him getting caught in the middle. If you explain where you stand with this, he might let them know that you're "off limits". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloWorld Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Communication is key to any relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest solo Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 i know you're right... i tend to avoid confrontation of any kind, even when it is necessary. it is easy in this situation, being one of the only non-christians i know to feel like i am outnumbered and anything i say will just be pointless.... i feel very intimidated, and have a hard time articulating my opinions... the emotions overwhelm my ability to communicate clearly and i feel like anything i say only makes things worse. i actually just went home for lunch and had the much dreaded conversation about the letter i had posted about earlier week, in response to the letter i received from one of the church elders... probably not a good time to do it... it wasn't pretty and i ended up coming back almost half an hour late! luckily no one has seemed to notice... so, i asked him what he thought i should do, and he responded with "i don't see why you would care what i think, you are just going to do what you want to do anyway." or something to that effect... so things got heated and i tried to explain that i feel like they are trying to make him believe things about me that aren't true, and that i am worried they will try to turn him against me. he was actually very attentive and didn't say much at first, just listening to this and gazing into space thoughtfully (this is a rare occurrence - my husband NEVER runs out of things to say about ANYTHING)... but when he asked me why i wouldn't talk to them in person i got really emotional and the sparks started flying. words like "bullshit", "lies", "hypocrisy", etc. he took this very personally because this is what he believes, and then got offended and the accusations started flying in every direction... i didn't even get a chance to mention this article to him... sometimes i just want him to think about what he really claims to believe... i asked him how he was going to reconcile his belief that i am making a bad decision (in rejecting christianity), with the belief they have at this church that god chose who he will save and who will be damned before the beginning of time. how can i be held responsible for a decision that was never mine in the first place? according to their belief system ((calvinism basically = total depravity (everyone is an undeserving, worthless worm), unconditional election (god chooses a few elect which he saved and sends the rest to eternal damnation, not for anything we have done, but because of some mysterious reason known only to him), limited atonement (christ only died for the elect), irresistible grace (free will does not exist, we can only do what god wills us to do), and the perseverance of the saints (the elect can never lose their salvation no matter how sinful they are, or how they are tempted) - this is what god wants and what brings him praise and glory... so why should i be blamed for my own unbelief?! i wish i wouldn't have been so emotional, i know this only makes me look bad, and will not help convince him that i am making a reasonable, rational decision in doing this... but i hope something i said would get through to him... i cried, he hugged me and told me he loved me... i told him that he better love and accept me for all that i am and what i believe (and don't believe), or this will never work... so we ended up agreeing to disagree again. i know he really just wants the best for me... i tried to tell him that this is not about him, but about me being honest about what i do and do not believe, and at the same time protecting myself from people and ideas that i feel are a negative influence in my life. uggghhhhh... i don't think i am going to bring up the article... this was just too much for me today. i wish i was articulate enough to influence him out of this garbage, but i don't know how to do it. i consider myself a reasonably intelligent person, but the communication is very difficult for me... i told him that if he is concerned about why i am doing this that he needs to ask me, and i will try to be more open about my thoughts and opinions... i feel like if he really understood where i am coming from that he might have second thoughts about this horrible brainwashing religion... he is just one of the lucky (or unlucky) few who have never had much doubt in life, who are content with what is most convenient and comfortable socially... this is all he knows... i would appreciate any further advice about this situation... your suggestions have been very helpful so far since i have been here... i don't know what i would do if i hadn't found this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 the best way to help a person suffering with depression is to remind them of their sinfulness and unworthiness of happiness, encouraging them to repent and turn back to god and the bible, the only thing that will comfort and heal them, freeing them from their "sadness", etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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