Guest end3 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 So what is the canned argument for the architecture and people fighting over a desert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazycatlady Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Pardon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 So what is the canned argument for the architecture and people fighting over a desert? More data please. If you are talking about fighting in the Middle East today, the canned argument would be oil. Take any given resource and you can find people fighting for it. Course the canned argument could be religion too. Take any given god and people will fight over it. Hell it doesn't even have to be two different gods. People are just as happy to fight over one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 So what is the canned argument for the architecture and people fighting over a desert? That people will fight over anything? You make a good point. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brick Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Unlike your camp, the members here hold a variety of idealogies and beliefs, so there really isn't such a thing as a "canned arguement". I'm afraid you'll have to deal with them individually as they come. How unfortunate for you ! BTW, what the fuck are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 So what is the canned argument for the architecture and people fighting over a desert? I assume with "architecture" you're referring to the argument from design, which can be refuted. And the thing with everyone fighting over Israel, well, it had to be some place. As humans we always find common things to share, or common things to fight for. If it had been Mecka all main religions were fighting for, the Muslims would have used the same argument. It's by chance, but also based on certain fundamental needs. Israel is after all the access to the ocean. The land itself doesn't contain much richness, but history kind of show that the countries closest to the water are more important for trade, business, and survival. Another point is to ask why only one country is interesting for you to look for where the fights are? Africa has gone through a very long time of occupations and wars, and everyone (even Europeans) have been involved in trying to grab a piece of it. Does that mean that the old tribal gods must be true? Don't think so. So the interest for one, two, three, or other specific areas in the world, doesn't prove their validity to base your religion on. And even if that was true, wouldn't the fight over Israel mean that the Old Testament God (YHWH, Judean) is the True God, and not Christianity? Christians don't have the claim to that land according to the old testament, but the Jews. And they (the Jewish believers) do NOT believe Christianity is a true successor to their faith. Christianity is a heresy, and rightly so. This means, if you really believe what you're saying, you should convert to Judaism. Back to your "architecture" argument. You see what you see, because your part of the world. If the world had been completely different, and you had been born in it, you would have said, "look how perfect the world is, so it must be designed." In other words, there are an infinite amount of variations of worlds, and if you had been born in every single one of them, you would have seen that world as the perfect and designed world. Some argue the design is "perfect" and there are no other way this world could have been "created." But then, doesn't that mean that either Heaven or Hell can't exist, because they're "different" than this world (per argument no other "perfect" design can exist) or Heaven and Hell are EXACTLY the same design as this world, and we have to really start questioning the ideas of "burning in a fire" or "eternal life", or "no more sorrow" and all that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I am not even close to having much knowledge about the temple structures, but let's suppose that there was a room in the second temple assigned for God's presence....the Holy of Holies.....and all the robe stuff and legalism to go into this room. Was the room built for the priest's imagination? I don't build a room for imaginary people or entities at my casa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I am not even close to having much knowledge about the temple structures, but let's suppose that there was a room in the second temple assigned for God's presence....the Holy of Holies.....and all the robe stuff and legalism to go into this room. Was the room built for the priest's imagination? I don't build a room for imaginary people or entities at my casa... You're kidding, right? There are millions of structures of varying splendor built to the imaginary sky spook. Churches, mosques, synagogs, pyramids, et. al. Does building Disneyland make the 6' talking mouse real? Did the Raeliens mansion and purple robes (and Nike's, of course) make the hidden space ship real? Humans tend to build shrines and worship what they don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I am not even close to having much knowledge about the temple structures, but let's suppose that there was a room in the second temple assigned for God's presence....the Holy of Holies.....and all the robe stuff and legalism to go into this room. Was the room built for the priest's imagination? I don't build a room for imaginary people or entities at my casa... You're kidding, right? There are millions of structures of varying splendor built to the imaginary sky spook. Churches, mosques, synagogs, pyramids, et. al. Does building Disneyland make the 6' talking mouse real? Did the Raeliens mansion and purple robes (and Nike's, of course) make the hidden space ship real? Humans tend to build shrines and worship what they don't understand. I am not talking about churches, I am talking specifically the temple(s) and the Holy of Holies room, do mosques have a room for God to have a chair?......and yes, the 6 foot mouse is real. I have seen it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 A place setting at dinner for a lost relative is the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Bwahahahah,...................chirp, chirp, chirp........oh that's crickets.......a chink in the armor? Bwahahahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I am not even close to having much knowledge about the temple structures, but let's suppose that there was a room in the second temple assigned for God's presence....the Holy of Holies.....and all the robe stuff and legalism to go into this room. Was the room built for the priest's imagination? I don't build a room for imaginary people or entities at my casa... Oh, you're talking about the temple architecture? Well, they did believe in a God, just like you believe in a God. They had some secret or holy artifacts in there, and they believed that when they prayed in there, God would hear them better. When you say they wouldn't build a room for imaginary people or entities, you have forgotten about your church, or when Catholics make shrines to the Virgin Mary in their homes, or Buddhist put a Buddha statue on their mantle, or the Hindus put images of Shiva, Vishnu, and the other gods they have. If they put those images in their homes, and some build buildings to pray to their gods, then some of them must be done to imaginary gods, unless all of them exists!? Right? So if some can do it, why is it impossible that someone else also can do it? Why is a Virgin Mary shrine any less important or believable than the Crystal Cathedral? (It's pretty amazing btw, and I wonder why they spent 50 million dollars on a church, or more. Was it to impress God, or impress people?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I am not talking about churches, I am talking specifically the temple(s) and the Holy of Holies room, do mosques have a room for God to have a chair?......and yes, the 6 foot mouse is real. I have seen it! Eeeh... a Church is a temple, and a temple is a church... that's my understanding. The Jews go to the temple to pray. The Muslims go tot he mosque to pray. The Christians go to church and pray. The Buddhists go to the temple to pray. So, my understanding is that temple=church=mosque=place of prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted September 29, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted September 29, 2008 Every Scientology facility has a furnished office reserved for L. Ron Hubbard. Does that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Perhaps the sanctum sanctorum was built to solidify the belief of the believers End. Maybe it’s like parents leaving cookies and milk out for Santa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderwire Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I am not even close to having much knowledge about the temple structures, but let's suppose that there was a room in the second temple assigned for God's presence....the Holy of Holies.....and all the robe stuff and legalism to go into this room. Was the room built for the priest's imagination? I don't build a room for imaginary people or entities at my casa... You ask if the room was built for the priest's imagination. Would it really be surprising that the room was built DUE TO and FROM a priest's imagination? And you're obviously refering to the Holy Place and the Holy Of Holies and the different articles of clothing and the bells and all that crap. I always enjoyed hearing "knowledgeable" Christians who loved to study the finer points of the Bible tell of how the high priest would venture into the Holy of Holies with the bells jingling - so the other priests would know he was still alive in the sacred place - and a rope tied around his ankle so they could haul him out in case he wasn't "pure enough" and God struck him dead. First of all, that's a huge load of bullshit and it isn't even in the Bible. I defy you to find that in the scriptures. You'll find the part about Aaron's garments with the bells in them, but he wasn't going into the Holy Of Holies... he was going into the Holy Place. He would have needed a whole new and totally different uniform (also crafted due to someone's crazy ideas of what they thought God would want or demand) before he could go into the Holy Of Holies. Show me one scriptural reference to back up the popular fallacy (a.k.a. LIE) of the rope and the bells. Show me one scriptural reference to where a priest actually didn't make the grade in the Holy Of Holies and was struck dead by God. God couldn't look upon sin, so he had a curtian erected? Is that correct? A fucking curtian? And the priests... all of them were good enough to go in and not die, right? Not one of them screwed up - physically, mentally, or spiritually - and got whacked by the Lord? Not a single one? C'mon... there's gotta be one! No, the truth is that the ol' boy that came out had God's will for the people!!! And of course everyone wanted to hear that. More scurrying, more groveling, more crazy commands, and most importantly, JOB SECURITY!!! The ark had to be "so many cubits by so many cubits" and the temples and such had to be constructed just so and of specific materials. What difference would it make to a celestial being? Just so that he could be certain that people were following his precise instructions? Of course! He would want to make sure that the people he was talking to and giving revelation to were putting out the correct information and demonstrating their willingness to worship him in the "proper" and prescribed ways. It couldn't possibly have been hoops to jump through that were conceived by old guys who's living was making sure people jumped at their every God-given and God-provided command. It's all bullshit, end. How did anyone come up with names of demons and the hierarchy of angels? The scriptures? Show me in the scriptures!!! Show me the names of demons and their ranks in the scriptures. Show me the long list of how the angels are ranked and of all the jobs they perform by using the scriptures. It ain't there!!! PEOPLE MADE THAT SHIT UP. Just like they did with the "so many cubits by so many cubits" and the construction materials and the specific uniforms and all the other shit. I'll bet a dollar to a donut you get a big, shit-eating grin on your face and shake your head reading about all the batshit crazy stuff in the Qur’an or the Book of Mormon or in the multitude of other world religions. I know I do. How fucking outlandish and insane are those claims and stories? They're certifiable, end. Yet... the Bible is true. It's not made up. All the things in the Bible are real, right? It's all Calvinball, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted September 29, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted September 29, 2008 Bwahahahah,...................chirp, chirp, chirp........oh that's crickets.......a chink in the armor? Bwahahahah Maybe it's just me, but I don't follow. What are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Bwahahahah,...................chirp, chirp, chirp........oh that's crickets.......a chink in the armor? Bwahahahah Maybe it's just me, but I don't follow. What are you talking about? He's loopy. He hears crickets in his head, and his fantasizing about the knights of King Arthur, with shiny armors and stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monsterfeets Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Pls to study Art/Architectural history. The "Holy of Holies" is a feature in many temples besides Christian and Jewish ones. i.e. Egyptian and Greek temples. So to answer your question, yes people do build rooms specifically for imaginary beings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adyton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Well you finally got me friend End. Yes I don't think that any human could have imagined a cube shaped room that only a priest could enter. I mean before that there were priest, and places only priests could go, and there were cube shaped rooms. But it would absolutely require a God to put the three ideas together. People would never have thought of it. Hell you would never have thought of it and that proves that it must have been God that did think of it. Just think about how long it took people to figure the idea of tying a sharp rock to a stick. Hey it had to be God. Edit: And we should be thankful that holy men are incapable of dreaming up holy shit. If that were the case we might have to wear holy underwear or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Finally Chef, I can have that sabbath rest I was looking for knowing you are handily defeated..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Well you finally got me friend End. Yes I don't think that any human could have imagined a cube shaped room that only a priest could enter. I mean before that there were priest, and places only priests could go, and there were cube shaped rooms. But it would absolutely require a God to put the three ideas together. People would never have thought of it. Hell you would never have thought of it and that proves that it must have been God that did think of it. Just think about how long it took people to figure the idea of tying a sharp rock to a stick. Hey it had to be God. Edit: And we should be thankful that holy men are incapable of dreaming up holy shit. If that were the case we might have to wear holy underwear or something. HAhahahahahhhahaha I just think it's a case of the Emperor has no clothes. Think about it, only the priests, the most initiated, the most faithful, those that believed the MOST could go in. If little Timmy wanna be priest went in and said, "Hey that's just an empty room" well, "We're gonna need a new Timmy!" At least in the New Clothes fairy tale people were only threatened with looking like a fool. Then again what is it Atheists are suppossed to be again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Is this thread supposed to be serious?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted September 29, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted September 29, 2008 What am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 What am I missing here? It's not what you're missing, it's what you have and are not missing; a brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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