Christianity Is In My Heart...

[Llwellyn]

Into my heart, into my heart,

Come into my heart, Lord Jesus.

Come in today; come in to stay.

Come into my heart, Lord Jesus.

Even though I have now determined to be a non-Christian rather than a Christian, I feel like I am still filled to the brim with Christianity. I spent 25 years as a Christian, attending Christian schools, Bible studies, reading Christian books, and discussing matters of faith with family and friends. This has basically shaped all of my beliefs, attitudes, and memories, and it hasn't been dumped from me as I wish it had.

 

I mean, I still know as much about the Bible as I did when I was a devout believer. I still remember all of the lessons of Christian history, and the points of doctrine that I learned. I still labor under the sexual hangups I developed as a Christian, and I react emotionally to events as I was taught as a Christian. I am still haunted by the idea of divine vengeance.

 

I kind of feel like Jesus is still in my heart even though I wish he weren't. I can try to scrub Christianity out of my mind, but I can no more forget Christianity than I can forget English, or forget how to ride a bike. It feels like when your Antivirus software tells you: "We have identified malware on your harddrive, and we can quarantine it, but we cannot remove it."

 

I can't seem to remove Christianity from my personality. I have quarantined it, and maybe with new experiences, I can rewrite my personality to a degree, but the religion still haunts me.

 

Do any of you guys feel this way?

 

 

[Spiderwire]

Yes... some days are better and some are worse.

 

There are things from Christianity and things from the Bible that I still hold dear and I agree with them. But the things that I do hold onto are things that I consider to be wisdom. What I have rejected is the supernatural aspects and I've done this because they caused me to hate myself, to fear more than I loved, and to think and see things in a way that isn't reality.

 

This will sound totally crazy, but here goes...

 

Yesterday, I was walking from one part of the training site I work on to another area. As I was walking, I happened to look down at a concrete water meter cover and, clear as day, I saw the word "HI!" on it. It caught my eye and I had to stop and look at it for a second. What was happening was that the sun was casting a shadow from the tops of the weeds onto the concrete. I marveled at the fact that the position of the weeds from where I was standing spelled out a capital "H", a capital "I", and even the exclamation point. For that moment in time and from the position I was walking up on it, it was a bit of a phenomenon. It was actually quite amazing and I stood there for a second and pondered it and wondered what the odds were of the sun shining on those weeds to provide that illusion.

 

Then it happened. What did it mean? Was there a significance to what I was seeing? How was it possible that I happened to walk up on it and see it there plain as day - "HI!" Was God trying to reach me in some way? All the times I asked for some kind of a sign... was he finally coming through? Did he create that illusion of shadow and light just for me to let me know he was there and that he was trying to communicate with me? Have I been wrong this whole time in turning my back on him, when it was so obvious that he was making his presence known to me? When I considered that, I had to also consider the fact that because I have turned my back on God and Christianity, I am now in danger of hell and the punishment of my sins. I was instantly filled with dread and doubt as I stood there looking at the shadows and the weeds and the concrete and I couldn't get it out of my head.

 

Can you see how totally insane thoughts like that are? Thoughts like that are 100% religious in nature and Christianity hammered that thinking style into me for years. What an unrealistic and superstitious way to look at the world. That isolated incident could have been enough to frighten me back into the habits of prayer and submission to a god who doesn't exist. But I've been out of Christianity long enough now that I was able to quickly gather my senses and my wits and have a little chuckle at how foolish I was being. Three years ago, I wouldn't have been able to do that. I'd have probably fallen to my knees right there and begged for forgiveness or offered up my worship.

 

So again, yes. It's still kicking around. But each day I'm free of it, I'm stronger. I don't know if we'll every be totally free of it, but I know it will never again rule me. I rule me.

[Eponymic]

I can't seem to remove Christianity from my personality. I have quarantined it, and maybe with new experiences, I can rewrite my personality to a degree, but the religion still haunts me.

 

Frankly, you should never remove Christianity from your heart.

 

Of course its a part of you and will always be a part of you. It's how you treat it from now on that's important.

 

I've made huge mistakes in my life that will always be with me. Though I don't consider it a bad thing because just like Christianity, I just recognize it as a learning experience. And although it took you a lot longer to learn this lesson, it's still just another part of your life that you learned from and will always be a part of you because of it.

 

Now it's up to you to just take that learning, and the rest of your life's lessons (some that were quick to learn, some that took a while just like breaking from Christianity), and use them to propel yourself forward.

[GraphicsGuy]

Well...the Bible does say the heart is exceedingly wicked and deceitful...

[Crazycatlady]

Llwellyn, I very often feel exactly that way. You put it much more eloquently than I could, though.

[mwc]

I can't seem to remove Christianity from my personality. I have quarantined it, and maybe with new experiences, I can rewrite my personality to a degree, but the religion still haunts me.

 

Do any of you guys feel this way?

Answer me this. You're from a missionary family, correct? When you go (read: have gone) on these trips do you suddenly lose who you are inside? The person you were raised as? If you're from a certain place (USA!?) then do you immediately stop being America when you leave America and become like a native of the place you find yourself? I know I wouldn't. It would take a long time to "fit in" and at my age I'd likely always stand out from the natives. After 25 years of being a native xian the odds of you blending in to some new surroundings as a native of that "country" is low. You'll inwardly be xian in a new land. You'll have to adapt over time but you'll probably never not be xian on some level. You were born and raised xian. You're a native.

 

Hopefully this makes the point (it's a bit sloppy since I didn't give it a lot of thought).

 

mwc

[Cracked]

To the OP, I was raised as an xtian from birth. I'm certain that I am hard wired in many ways and I will never change in certain ways. Lately (in the past few years) I have wondered about what I was taught (right from wrong, the stuff that is hard wired in me) VS. what may truely be right and wrong. I can say that certain xtian philosiphies seem to be right ways of thinking, but at the same time I know I have have been wrong before and no matter how strong I feel about something (right or wrong), I May be wrong.

 

I'm trying to be a more positive person, but it's hard when I'm surrounded by so much negative input.

 

Anyway, good luck with your journey in life. I will try and do right things in my life, but as they are right or wrong........ I can not say. I will use my best judgement.

[ShackledNoMore]

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been deconverted? I know I felt that way for a dozen or more years after I deconverted. And now, although I know more about the bible then most xians, and I hang around here and rant about the ills of xianity, I consider the unwelcome negative baggage a thing of the past (except maybe to the degree that fundys in my life, or in society, take it upon themselves to intrude upon my life or to shape social mores/policy, but I cannot prevent them from trying to do that). Everyone's different, but it did take a long time for me, and 25 years in the cult is a long time. It's certainly understandable if it takes its legacy awhile to dissipate.

[xequar]

To our OP, I'll offer a bit of a different perspective.

 

Don't lose the Christianity. As in, don't try to forget all of the bible teachings or all of the rest of it. Someone else mentioned that they're a part of you and a part of your learning experience, and that's entirely true.

 

Another component, though, is that we Ex-C'ers are in a unique position. As Ex-Christians, most of us know our bible and our Christian teachings pretty well, and it's from that basis that we were able to overcome all of that to become the people we are today and strive to be. From that basis, we can intelligently make commentary on both sides of the issue, as we've been exposed to both sides. We all know the arguments that will and work with a Christian, and we all know what made us choose whatever path it is we've chosen. To try to deny that background is not only highly difficult, but I would also assert, harmful. Yeah, we all have our own unique struggles with the brainwashing and the aftereffects thereof. As Captian Kirk put it in Star Trek V (yes, I know, it's one of the odd numbered ones...), "Damn it, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!"

[Karhoof]

Then it happened. What did it mean? Was there a significance to what I was seeing? How was it possible that I happened to walk up on it and see it there plain as day - "HI!" Was God trying to reach me in some way? All the times I asked for some kind of a sign... was he finally coming through? Did he create that illusion of shadow and light just for me to let me know he was there and that he was trying to communicate with me? Have I been wrong this whole time in turning my back on him, when it was so obvious that he was making his presence known to me? When I considered that, I had to also consider the fact that because I have turned my back on God and Christianity, I am now in danger of hell and the punishment of my sins. I was instantly filled with dread and doubt as I stood there looking at the shadows and the weeds and the concrete and I couldn't get it out of my head.

 

Can you see how totally insane thoughts like that are? Thoughts like that are 100% religious in nature and Christianity hammered that thinking style into me for years. What an unrealistic and superstitious way to look at the world. That isolated incident could have been enough to frighten me back into the habits of prayer and submission to a god who doesn't exist. But I've been out of Christianity long enough now that I was able to quickly gather my senses and my wits and have a little chuckle at how foolish I was being. Three years ago, I wouldn't have been able to do that. I'd have probably fallen to my knees right there and begged for forgiveness or offered up my worship.

Spider, thank you for sharing that. THAT is exactly the kinda thing I'm all too glad to be rid of!

No more imagined little hints, teasing and dancing around the edges. IMO, I think part of the brainwashing program was teaching to interpret everything to point to that. Signs and reminders everywhere!

[Taphophilia]

Yesterday, at work, one of my co-workers swore and when she saw I was there, she apologized to me. Ugh! Everyone thinks I'm really Christiany!

 

I can't help it.

 

I know that almost everyone I know would be shocked to know that not only am I not a Christian, I don't even believe in god.

 

Have you ever noticed that former drug addicts act different from people who have not done drugs, even if they have done them for a long time.

 

I sometimes think of ex-Christians like former drug addicts. We can quit Christianity but the effects of it never really leave us.

[par4dcourse]

Ok, a response from the other camp. I was xian more than half my life. I don't think xian, I don't feel xian, I don't act xian. I dislike the xian community and their smarm, and I avoid them like the plague.

I'm an ex alcoholic, but no one knows unless I tell.

I'm an ex-husband too, but I have no urges to go live with any of them again either.

[Etchison]

So many great posts on this thread.

 

I was a Xtian for about 25 years, and renounced my faith about 13 years ago. Like many here, there are some parts that I think are good, and I haven't let go of. (The Golden Rule, things like that.) But leaving Christianity is kind of like getting a divorce. They say that the time it takes to recover from a divorce is about half the duration of the relationship. The same might be true of Christianity--and the half-life might even be longer.

 

For me, the residual part of Xtianity that continues to linger like a bad odor is that I am TOO NICE to people. Xtianity teaches us to set our own needs aside to help others. This part of my Christian walk was always the easy part. I was always Mr. Helpful. Now I think I am still too accomodating to people, and don't stick up for my own needs at times. I am still-thirteen years later--trying to find a healthy ego.

 

I will agree with several others who say that this just takes time. Years and years. The longer you were a Christian, the longer it will take to leech the poison out of your veins.

[Realist]

Christianity Is In My Heart...

 

..... another Christian lie!!!

 

The truth is:

 

Christianity Is In My Mind!

[Llwellyn]

As Captian Kirk put it in Star Trek V (yes, I know, it's one of the odd numbered ones...), "Damn it, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!"

 

 

I like this. Thanks.

 

Yes, I am an MK and lived abroad for 15 years. I have been an ex-christian for 3 years. I guess I just have to be patient with myself. The only part that really bothers me is when I start feeling a lot of anxiety that I can't shake -- anxiety about sex and about God's wrath. I mean, knowing certain things -- like the meaning of the Calvinist "TULIP" and the Lord's prayer -- is one thing, but feeling emotions of sadness, fear and grief is different.

 

But most of the time, i think it is amusing that I have so much nonsense packed into this 2.5 lb brain. I have been spending 25 years checking the registry for the needed elements and uploading the latest updates: "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?" 2 Corinthians 13:5.

 

(I kind of find computer metaphors helpful to understanding our own mental processes. I'm sure there are limits to the metaphor, but it can help sometimes.)

[Llwellyn]

Here's something funny -- sometimes when I log on here, I feel like I am kind of a voyeur who doesn't belong to the community but is spying on it. Like I'm really a Christian and I'm just spying on what's going on here with the ex-Christians. I guess I still feel like an outside with unbelievers. It would help if, in real life, I was more integrated in a nonbelieving community. As it is, all my intimate associates are Christians. I would love to have a non-believing girlfriend or spouse.

[ShackledNoMore]

I have been spending 25 years checking the registry for the needed elements and uploading the latest updates:

That's the thing about the registry: it gets all filled up and bloated with all sorts of crap, some of it just sitting there with no remaining function, some of it detrimental to the system, and it's difficult or impossible to properly clean and defragment it.

[chefranden]

Christianity Is In My Heart...

 

..... another Christian lie!!!

 

The truth is:

 

Christianity Is In My Mind!

 

Not meaning to start a debate in the Life forum, but I think that it is important to point out that this is incorrect. Christianity is in the heart. That is, Christianity is in the habituation of emotion. This can be easily seen in Spiderwire's encounter with the shadow.

 

Llwellyn still "feels" like a stranger in a strange land. It's not because she doesn't know about the non-existence of God. It is not a matter of thinking properly. If you are an ex-christian you will not think your way back into the fold. You will need an experience like Spiderwire's shadow, an experience of the heart to go back.

 

If Llwellyn had a decent experience as a Christian, it will be harder for her to shake it off then someone who was mistreated, or someone that had a deep emotional need that non-existent God ignored.

[HelloWorld]

Dude, I totally understand.

 

I feel like this all of the time. It sort of plagues me. I am so uncomfortable and anxious around Christians. I am afraid that I will fall back into it. Sometimes I think that I am just denying something that I know is true way deep down in my heart. Sometimes I think that the reason I have such a hard time shaking Christianity off is because I spent my entire life letting God's grace build up inside me (I am 21 years old and was raised Catholic from infancy), and he is sort of protecting me from disbelief or something like that.

 

I feel like I can't let myself think anything about religion without putting up a protective wall in my mind. I feel like if I were to just "let myself go" and listen to my conscience, I would be convinced that I am wrong and that Christianity is right. Sometimes constructing this mental wall gives me a headache - a real physical one. Sometimes I get cranky and grumpy and joyless. I feel like I am denying part of myself. Much of my previous experiences of joy and peace and happiness were tied up in some belief about God and Jesus. I struggle with a compulsion never to let myself be happy or joyful or peaceful or content because I feel that if I do so, I will be going back to God. Yeah...right now I fear happiness. It is a horrible state and a horrible feeling. I loathe it. I despise it.

 

Then again, I really only actively started questioning/denying in May or June, so I am still a baby at all of this stuff.

[hereticzero]

Don't take this personal when I say, 'Christianity is a mental problem.' What we hear spoken is what we come to believe. The words and ceremony are processed through the brain. Emotions are controlled by the brain. Emotions stir the feelings in the heart. We believe with our hearts by faith what we hear. That is what we fight against is the unproven faith we have as the result of the cult teachings of Christianity.

 

Faith is betrayal of common sense. We get angry when we are betrayed and embarrassed when we discover we have been duped most of our lives but more extremely so than when we first learned there was no Santa Claus. We are now adults and adults should pay more attention, right? Well, when you spend your whole life in a cult, your mind is lulled to sleep and you would not question what your parents tell you is true, other people tell you is true, the govt. acts like it's true, and maybe at least two to three times per week, you go to church where everyone there from the usher to the janitor tells you what you have heard is true. So it must be true!

 

Over several years we consider the arguments against Christianity, we hear (there's that word again, 'hear') and the arguments actually make more sense. We have gotten older and everything we have heard, and read, Concerning the treachery of Christianity, are proven beyond a reasonable doubt to us, that they are true. Now our hearts are competing over this new faith, the faith of reason. We now have a new kind of faith, we have faith in ourselves. We have grown up mentally and spiritually. We have the spirit of reason.

 

With all this new mental competition, our emotions run high and we fluctuate between peace and anger. It is the process of growing up and taking on new responsibility for ourselves. I go through it and so does everyone that comes out of a cult. It is PTSD! Religion is a traumatic experience. You will do fine. Keep faith in yourself.

[Guest HellboundAlleee]

I just don't see it. I guess the more I read about the reality of the religion and what it has become (and of course its history) I realize I want as far away from it as possible.

 

Especially Jesus.

 

I would recommend listening to or watching Julia Sweeney's one-woman show, "Letting Go of God," about what she thought Jesus was, and what she discovered through trying to re-dedicate herself to him.

 

Where do we find out about Jesus? In the bible. When I really read the scriptures, like her, the Jesus they sell on tv and in bookstores vanished and was replaced by someone I do not want to have anything to do with. Someone who probably never existed, and certainly could never have existed--the someone created by two-thousand years of Chinese Whispers.

 

Gone is the gentle man. Gone is the peaceful man. Gone is the loving man. It doesn't mean our hopes and wishes aren't nice. It just means that we have to realize that the kind of person we want this Jesus Superstar to be is not unattainable by ourselves.

 

But it DOESN'T mean that we cannot evaluate the morality of fathers thinking they can sacrifice their children in their own place and call it "good."

 

I don't think people need a holding place in their "hearts" to symbolize goodness. Smash those symbols! Symbols only appease us to make us think we're good people when all we do is think fondly of those symbols! That does no good for anyone! Sometimes I think it causes people to feel unworthy to get up, get out and do things, be that person we enshrine in christmas tree teddy bears! (I think the Jesus("God") in the bible would just as soon set a bear to tear out the throat of a sinner than cuddle with one.)

 

Deconstruct those symbols! Find out what they really mean! Then build anew with the things that actually exist and matter! Focus on your values and virtues, and you won't have anything to feel guilty for.

[Googledotman]

Llwellyn,

 

I know exactly how you feel. I too want to go back to Jesus a lot of the time, but I can't bring myself to do it because I know that even though I am scared to death of hell, I know that logically, hell and the god described by christians should not exist.

 

A lot of the christian beliefs still bother me to the point that sometimes, I wanna go back to where everything is normal. But what I know and what I feel in my heart are two different things, so I say maybe you should probably go back, because while your feelings may say God, your brain will find peace knowing it is not real.

 

Googledotman