Guest ShelleyPoe Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Have any of you ever had to struggle with the "hell" meme for an excruciatingly long time, rather than just be able to do a few quick logic exercises and happily rid yourselves of it? I have been dealing with this torment for 14 years, on and off, and often wonder whether I will ever get past those horrible things that they battered into my head. "If you were to die tomorrow...", etc.- you know the routine, I am sure. How much longer is this likely to keep haranguing my mind? Will it never cease? When will the day ever come when I can actually relax enough to enjoy living, rather than perpetually ruminate about suddenly dying? I have tried everything imaginable to stop dwelling on it, and nothing ever lasts long. After a while, the meme seems to re-activate itself, somehow or another, no matter what I do. I have tried everything from studying physics and philosophy, to numbing myself with junk food and drink, to medication and therapy, to self-help tapes, to exercise, diet and vitamin supplements. Ultimately, the hell-fears always seem to find a way around everything I do to relieve them. There are times that I wish I could sue for this; I really do. Surely, the former churches and Christian schools I attended should be held responsible for the psychological abuse that they foisted onto me, and for the permanent damage they did to my mind and my life. Yet, I do not exactly hold my breath for justice anytime soon. I just hate that they got away with this. Sometimes, I just feel so psychologically raped by that horrible religion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 How long have you been out? I can't speak for everyone but it certainly went away for me, eventually. It took a while. My advice it NOT to read philosophy or go to therapy (unless you are literally not able to function because of this) Instead I'd suggest you go find a life. I know when I first left Christianity I was totally lost, the biggest problem I had was my personal identity was totally wrapped up in the religion and I had no idea who I was or what I should be doing. I actually started watching anime (something I still do today) it was a good hobby that got my mind of anything religious, and because it is Japanese there are very few references to Christianity. It doesn't have to be anime obviously, but the best thing for you is to get your mind off of religion all together. Get a hobby, get your self out and meet new people and somewhere down the line you will suddenly realize that you aren't worried about it, you may even go whole days without thinking about religion at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Its different for some people, but in my case it was listening to the utterly ridiculous psuedo-logic christians use to try and justify hell that showed me why it can't exist...or at the very least, not in the way they think it does. To me I never was truly in the cult. I was an "agnostic theist" as a child. Trying to find some reason to believe - I have always been the kind of person who needs proof to believe something even when I was a kid. At around the age of 14~15 I seriously started trying to find what the evidence was so I could believe it and found just the opposite. Nowadays I can safely say that not only do I see Christianity in the same light as your random african tribal Ju-Ju God of the Savannah, but I wonder why I ever wanted xianity to be true. Seriously, the idea that others deserve to burn in all eternity for beliefs when belief is not even a choice is caveman logic no matter how badly theologists try to spin it. No self respecting God would ever place such a rule on the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 6, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted October 6, 2008 Maybe it would help to look into the Christian sects that don't believe in eternal hellfire. If you can see that even Christians don't have to adopt that doctrine, then perhaps it would fade from your programming. I wish you well. http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/tbhell.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 As far as I know, the best way to manage the foul idea of Yahweh's vengeance after this life is to welcome it and accept it. If you truly fear that God will bathe you in a lake of fire, then accept that it will happen, and move on. If God does burn you, you will be able to endure it. Obviously you will, because the doctrine says that you will persist. Accept the fate and then try to make the best out of a tough situation. Anticipate that if ever in the future you find yourself in the lowest glowing gulfs of a holy inferno, you will continue to follow your conscience, and make the best out of a bad situation. There are worse things than being cursed and punished by an infinitely powerful God. Worse is to cross your conscience by agreeing with Christianity that vengeance is justice, bad is good, dark is light, etc. etc. etc. Curse me, tough guy. Makes no difference to me at this point what he wills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Shelly, First, since this is my first reply to one of your posts, welcome! The answer to your question, "how long," I believe, is different for each person. Of course we both know intellectually that there is no hell and therefore nothing to fear. Of course we both know it is the indoctrination working, from more than 14 years ago. And we both realize that, as you say, it is meme, passed on for a long, long time, fabricated and taking on a life of its own millennia ago with no more basis than threats from other religions, such as being reincarnated as a cockroach, which you do not fear because you did not happen to be indoctrinated into one of those other religions. For all intents and purposes, I personally think that the few quick logic exercises to rid oneself of the fears were a splendid solution, but it's not quick, it can take quite a few years, since it has to be internalized to the point of overcoming all that abusive brainwashing, the psychological rape, as you aptly and justly put it. I think ex-c and the slew of other resources over then Internet and in books are invaluable. There was nothing like this available 14 years ago. You mentioned the therapy angle: the only person I know of who specializes in this area is Marlene Winell, who I know of from these forums. I do not know if her book would be of use or not for overcoming fears of hell, but I do expect that you might find some good book recommendations applicable to overcoming the fear of hell throughout this site. Also, have you seen this thread pinned in the FAQ section? You might find some useful stuff there, too, with lots of collective wisdom from ex-c members (and speaking of book recommendations, if you like that route, I think there is at least one geared specifically to overcoming fear of hell). All the best in your deprogramming efforts to vanquish this lingering fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live and learn Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 ShelleyPoe, I find this helps me. "Your god, your rules, you go to hell!" The idea of Hell was invented by those in power to scare people enough to keep them from rebelling and taking back their lives as their own. We're not Middle Age peasants any more. It seems to me that it is a political/social tool, used to manipulate us like little children. No, the Boogey Man is not going to get us if we're bad little girls and boys. I personally found that counseling helped me. Since this has made your life miserable for so long, I'd highly recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I often wonder if the fear of hell burns in the backs of the minds of people who were never caught up in fundyism? You know, the people who mark the "Christian - Protestant" box when the census-taker comes around, the Easter-Christmas Catholics, and so on. You know, the vast majority of everyone outside the American South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ShelleyPoe Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I often wonder if the fear of hell burns in the backs of the minds of people who were never caught up in fundyism? You know, the people who mark the "Christian - Protestant" box when the census-taker comes around, the Easter-Christmas Catholics, and so on. You know, the vast majority of everyone outside the American South. I would guess so. I am a recovering Episcopalian from Connecticut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderwire Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Have any of you ever had to struggle with the "hell" meme for an excruciatingly long time, rather than just be able to do a few quick logic exercises and happily rid yourselves of it? I have been dealing with this torment for 14 years, on and off, and often wonder whether I will ever get past those horrible things that they battered into my head. "If you were to die tomorrow...", etc.- you know the routine, I am sure. The word on the street is that everyone dies eventually. Ya can't avoid it. So, in the meantime, LIVE. The next time someone asks you, "If you were to die tomorrow, where would you spend eternity?", ask them the same question. If they appear utterly convinced and confident that they would spend it in the presence of their lord and savior, Jesus Christ, ask them how many times they've said "The Sinner's Prayer". If their answer is more than once, they're not convinced themselves. When someone asks that smug, smarmy question, realize that you're looking at someone who's terrified to die and they want you to be every bit as terrified as they are. Even in their "confidence", they're terrified. Live. Grab life by the throat and squeeze as much from it as you can. You'll find that you'll be too busy living to worry about dying or what happens afterward. No one knows anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Take the Blasphemy Challenge. Then you know you are going to hell if Christianity is real. Once you know something will happen you can then get around to accepting it. Shit, hell can't be any worse than heaven. What can they do to you in hell? Send you to hell? In heaven you have to stand around and sing praise to God forever and ever and ever. How great can that be? Both places suck if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Have any of you ever had to struggle with the "hell" meme for an excruciatingly long time, rather than just be able to do a few quick logic exercises and happily rid yourselves of it? There is a lot to say for powerful logical exercises to disable the Christian meme. The most powerful routine that I have ever encountered was written by, of all people, C.S. Lewis. Lewis was a very odd person who believed that Christianity could serve a useful function in society, but he was not the Christian that so-many people think he was. Lewis did not believe in the Biblical doctrine of Hell. Anyway, this was his rationization about the doctrine of God's cursing: Could one seriously introduce the idea of a bad God, as it were by the back door, through a sort of extreme Calvinism? You could say we are fallen and depraved. We are so depraved that our ideas of goodness count for nothing; or worse than nothing — the very fact that we think something good is presumptive evidence that it is really bad. Now God has in fact — our worst fears are true — all the characteristics we regard as bad: unreasonableness, vanity, vindictiveness, injustice, cruelty. But all these blacks (as they seem to us) are really whites. It's only our depravity that makes them look black to us. And so what? This, for all practical (and speculative) purposes, sponges God off the slate. The word good, applied to Him, becomes meaningless: like abracadabra. We have no motive for obeying Him. Not even fear. It is true we have His threats and promises. But why should we believe them? If cruelty is from His point of view 'good,' telling lies may be 'good' too. Even if they are true, what then? If His ideas of good are so very different from ours, what He calls Heaven might well be what we should call Hell, and vice-versa. Finally, if reality at its very root is so meaningless to us — or, putting it the other way round, if we are such total imbeciles — what is the point of trying to think either about God or about anything else? This knot comes undone when you try to pull it tight. What C. S. Lewis is saying is that a God who could consider it good to do what we know to be evil (i.e. curse another being), is a God who could consider it good to lie to us about a scheme of salvation. Even if he does not lie, if his ideas of good and bad are at variance with our conscience's ideas (see Proverbs 14:12; 16:25), then what he regards "heavenly" will likely be what we regard "hellish." What joy could you find in the heaven of a God who likes the idea of vengeance? What grief could you find in the hell of a God who hates forgiveness? As soon as the Bible tells us that Yahweh's morality can be different from human morality, then heaven and hell flip-flop. Hell is the place where we would find the things we love -- beauty, honesty, purity, courage. Heaven is the place where Yahweh would nurture the things he loves -- death, cowardice, anger, malice, ugliness. Yahweh throwing atheists into hell is like Brer Fox throwing Brer Rabbit into the Briar Patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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