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Does God love Satan?


Abiyoyo

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I have a thought that I have been pondering on for a little while now. In the time I have posted here and looked at others posts I have been made aware of some of the common issues that have been said to be the reason for disbelief in the Bible God.

 

One of the most talked about topics, or thoughts is the whole Bibles layout about Satan and God, Heaven and Hell, and their eternal descriptions. I have seen where many have said, If God is all loving and knowing then why would He have even let Satan be or have been created?

 

Also, the Bible is just myth oriented ( as some of the ancient mythologies) or represents some previous pagan cultures and structure. Again, I have seen where many have said, Why would I serve a God that is so loving, caring, and compassionate that He has a place for all sinners to perish for eternity? Why would I serve a demanding ego boasting God, that seems to want everyone to fear Him?

 

I have ( as with most comments), digested most of these comments and truly wondered about that as well. I was lead to some of the Gnostic sites and even some other things (including Gods Word).

 

So, I came to a thought that I wanted to mention. Its a thought that most church abiding folks maybe would reject ( wife did). I would like to examine and go through some example scripture. The first being in Job where God meet with the sons of God, and Satan strolled in for a visit. God asked Satan, have you considered my servant Job that there is none more righteous on earth than him.

 

Lets look at that for a minute. God, Bible structured, is the all knowing, omnipresent, True God that already knows the beginning of time and end. God asks Satan have you considered my servant Job, while reminding or letting Satan know that he is all righteous. We know that God already knew the outcome of the whole world, and Jobs peril to come.

 

God, having no fear, being God, doesnt fear a earthly death. Death is the door to God, for God. Stay with me here. So, death in Gods eyes is not tragic, not feared, and not a big deal really (from what I have interpreted from scripture). God lets Satan kills some of Jobs children, and puts all kinds of life changing tragic obsticules in front of Job.

 

We know that Satan has a thought process, and desicion making abilities from the above question from God. Satan, from what we can understand, is a decision making being with power over earthly things. The descioning part is the reason for my thought. If Satan has a thought process and feelings, as we can see in Satans responses to God, then he doesnt know His eternal destination, or rejects it.

 

In Revelation, it says that Satan will be bound for a 1000years in prison(Hell). He will be released and come to gather all the nations to come into the midst of Gods people, to battle. God will then bring fire down from the heavens and devour him and throw him into hell with the beast and the false prophet to be tormented forever.

 

A couple issues there. It says that Satan will be thrown there too. They will be tortured forever there. There, refering to the place they go. It never says anything about Satan torturing anyone, its says that Satan will be thrown there as well to be tormented.

 

Then we get to the issue about the NT and Jesus dealings with demons and Satan. Satan tries to deceive and conveince Jesus when tested and through other situations ( like Peters comment). When Jesus cast the demons out of people they were scared and begged Jesus not to kill them? Jesus often refered to the evil one as Satan and his synagaue.

 

With these scriptures, I come to the conclusion that Jesus( Son of God, God) had authority over them on earth, though Satan acted in a more relentless, deceiving, rebellious pattern. The demons on the other hand, begged Jesus and showed themselves at His commands, also answering questions that He asked them. But yet, Satan could not (Biblically) deceive Jesus.

 

I came to this by scripture in the Bible. Lets start with Satan. Jesus said He has a synagaue ( place where people/spirits follow him, presumming to be earth). He can make a choice or decide to do something. In that, He is relentless, deceiving and rebellious in pattern. He is also described as the father of pride. He has power over people on earth. He does not control death.

 

God is all knowing, beginning and end, holy of holy. Pure, white as snow, creator of all things. God has His Word, which will be fullfilled. God created Satan(Job41) and knows of His power and is the controller of it, in different scriptures. God does things so that all things come to the good of God. God does not fear death, but has compassion on people, and shows mercy to people.

 

Common question. . Why does God with all these attributes let Satan do this to Jobs life, or even have a place where some of His created suffer, forever?

 

I saw the Discovery launch the other day and I personally dont think that man (created) should be there( My opinion). I have done some research about Nasa along with some of its starting contributors ( most noncreation based). I just looked at that ship going straight up to the sky, and remebered the scripture where God said, With there imaginations there would be nothing impossible for them. Yet, when seeing them take off, I prayed for God to give them grace.

 

Grace. God is all the above things. Satan is not, he acts in arrogance. Satan thinks he is going to overthrow the kingdom, even though he knows the scripture more than us. That is arrogance. He saw Jesus die, and rise again. He saw Gods implant of His eternal grace and supplication and redemtion of sins for all mankind through Jesus. Yet, He still persists.

 

This is my thought. Could God, being all holy and giving all grace, be trying to tell Satan that He is the only One and give him an oppurtunity as with all the others, to repent. My sole inclination to this thought is Job. Have you considered my servant Job? I took from all the other scripture, that it seemed as if this was a gesture of grace from God. God wanted to ask Satan if He considered Job, as a witness for Satan, not a challenge.

 

Heres my stand on my thought. I have an example. Us. God created us knowing that we are rebellious and evil in ouir hearts. Yet God gives us oppurtunity after oppurtunity to choose to serve Him, and we reject it. Yet, the rejecters have normal, some very fulfilling lives. Peace, harmony, comforts, no stresses of what to do as a Christian. God bestows the same grace upon the same evil hearted people, through Jesus's intercession, that call on His name and worship Him.

 

I then realized some more scripture. The wheat will grow with the thorns. We are both the created, yet have different characteristics. The wheat is used to make breads, the torns are useless. The evil hearted people that do and dont look toward God are useful on earth for His purposes, and have a home. Just a different home.

 

Finally, even though God knows the evilness that this world will scheme up, He yet puts little hedges around all mankind. Yet Satan is arrogant and disgraceful to God, He shows him grace. Remeber, I see a mans life on earth as the Bible says it is. Like a lilly that blows away when the wind comes.

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God does not exist.

 

Out of all the Ex-Christian memebers here Asimov, I knew I could count on your reply to my question soley related to former Christians. :grin:

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God does not exist.

You are so sexy Asimov. I am totaly hetro, but right now at this second I want to have your children!!

 

To say "God does not exist" is so....LIBERATING!

 

 

SO EXHILARATING!!

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YoYo

 

I did not read it all, but I read enough to see that you are confusing the concepts and making conclusions, that (even from a Christian point of view) are invalid.

 

You should be aware, that the word "Satan" means an advocate or the opposition. "Satan" is not the same as the "Devil". The "Devil" is a Christian concept that is totally foreign to OT. Of course, many Christian do interpret OT in a way, so the Devil is there - for example that the Serpent in Eden represents the Devil - but this is a Christian interpretation imposed on OT.

 

There are also two places in OT describing the same situation (where God is punishing King David for counting the population). In one of the places, it was Satan that made David do it, in the other it was God. So it seem, that the distinction between God and Satan in OT isn't a sharp one.

 

Even when Jesus, as decribed in NT, talks about Satan, you cannot assume, that he had the Christian concept of the Devil in mind. But all this was from a Christian point of view.

 

The good news is, that Christianity is a man made religion that you do not need to pay attention to.

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The good news is, that Christianity is a man made religion that you do not need to pay attention to.

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

Good luck thomas of ever selling YoYo on good news that is actually real and practical! hehe!

 

Great post man.

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Thorns don't have a purpose? Your god created them didn't he? Why would an intelligent designer make something useless?

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As a Christian I never considered this, but...

Thorns aren't the creation-- they are a plants defense. Like the shock or sting of some sea creatures. They shouldn't be compared to an actual plant. It's like comparing a soldier to a helmet. One is good and the other is useless?

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Personally, I find the book of revelations to be the most tacked on aspect of the entire bible. If you disregard that one acid trip, the relationship of God and Satan is very easy to see. Satan is God's prosecutor. Satan isn't in opposition to God, he works for the guy!

 

Funny, I'm pretty sure that how the jews view him in the fist place...

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I love Satan, and thats all that matters.

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Thorns don't have a purpose?  Your god created them didn't he?  Why would an intelligent designer make something useless?

Aren't thorns Nature's way of telling you, "Go find another god damned bush to eat off!"

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God loves Satan very much. After all, god is making very sure Satan is getting like 95% of all the souls that ever existed for company in hell.

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Guest aexapo
God created us knowing that we are rebellious and evil in ouir hearts. Yet God gives us oppurtunity after oppurtunity to choose to serve Him, and we reject it. Yet, the rejecters have normal, some very fulfilling lives.

 

This is one reason atheists and christians can't talk together -- you can't communicate unless you're speaking the same language. Already, man is defined as rebellious and evil, and those who are no longer Christian are "rejectors." To have this conversation, we'd have to agree on the terminology.

 

To reject something, you turn away from something that is present. Atheists do not jump up one day and say, "I reject you Jehovah! I renounce your almighty power!"

 

Rejection is an act of repulsion, and atheism is a state of being for a person who doesn't believe. I don't reject God because he isn't there -- I can't perceive him, I don't know him, I can't rebel against something that doesn't exist.

 

On a happier note, this did remind me of Anne Rice's retelling of the Job story, using her favorite evil protagonist, Lestat, in her fifth installment of the Vampire Chronicles -- Memnoch, the Devil.

 

The book has about as as much to do with vampirism as American Chopper does with fine dining and gardening in Connecticut. For those who didn't read it, Lestat happens upon the Evil One (named Memnoch) whose fresh back from a bet with the Creator about who can make old Lestat serve whom.

 

Through her miraculous story weaving, she describes God pretty much the same way the OT does, as a spoiled irrational deity whose decisions often make no sense, and who loves nothing more than hearing the same umpteen thousand angels and saints sing the same praises every day. Memnoch has a problem with a lot of it -- especially when He starts favoring those who've only recently evolved from the simeans . . . and he gets booted out of heaven.

 

It's a spectacular read, especially for those of ex-christians who actually had to read the bible. When I read it, I was still quasi-spiritual, and her descriptions of Heaven seemed spectacular at the time.

 

That being said, Anne Rice is a devout Catholic (with a few criticisms of the church), and the story's ending reflects that -- but it was fun reading the same story from Satan's point of view.

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Ever read any of her Sleeping Beauty stories? She wrote them under another name but it's totally about BDSM sex. And it gets very very graphic.

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YoYo, please explain something to me, that I have NOT been able to understand.

 

Where do you Xians get the idea that the serpent, mentioned in Genesis 3, Garden of Eden, et al., is the "devil"?

 

I've read and read this account. I've looked at the Hebrew word, at it translates into "serpent", not "accuser", not "devil", not "Satan".

 

So why do Xians preach sermons and teach people that the DEVIL deceived Eve?

 

Doesn't "God" in fact punish the "serpent" to go on his belly, eating dust?

 

Are you Xians trying to tell me that the devil is now writhing around on his belly, sucking up dirt for a living? (What kind of threat is he, then?)

 

And please, don't try to wiggle out of this by telling me what YOU believe, as opposed to what the church has hysterically been teaching. The CHURCH is the organization in charge of indoctrination, not YOU.

 

Why does the church equate this Genesis 3 "serpent" with the "devil"?

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Where do you Xians get the idea that the serpent, mentioned in Genesis 3, Garden of Eden, et al., is the "devil"?

 

I can help you w/that TK. In the book of revelations, that tacked-on acid trip I was talking about before, satan is referred to as "that serpent of old" at one point. It is from this single verse that christians extrapolate to have the devil present in the garden.

 

:Wendywhatever:

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YoYo, please explain something to me, that Why does the church equate this Genesis 3 "serpent" with the "devil"?

 

I guess it's from this:

 

And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent being called devil, and, Satan; he deceiving the whole habitable world was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

(Rev 12:9)

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I then realized some more scripture. The wheat will grow with the thorns. We are both the created, yet have different characteristics. The wheat is used to make breads, the torns are useless. The evil hearted people that do and dont look  toward God are useful on earth for His purposes, and have a home. Just a different home.

 

Dude - you really expect us to carry on a conversation with you, when this is how you view us? You silly little brainwashed idiot.

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does santa claus love the easter bunny?

I was going to say that!

 

Perfect response.

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does santa claus love the easter bunny?

 

No, he loves the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny is madly in love with the IPU.

 

;)

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I then realized some more scripture. The wheat will grow with the thorns. We are both the created, yet have different characteristics. The wheat is used to make breads, the torns are useless. The evil hearted people that do and dont look  toward God are useful on earth for His purposes, and have a home. Just a different home.

Dude - you really expect us to carry on a conversation with you, when this is how you view us? You silly little brainwashed idiot.

Funny. I would say the thorn is religion and the wheat is reason. But hey ... that's just me.

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does santa claus love the easter bunny?

 

No, he loves the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny is madly in love with the IPU.

 

So sorry...sometimes I have a hard time keeping track of which mythological being loves who.

 

 

There's a slash story in there, somewhere.

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There's a slash story in there, somewhere.

 

And somewhere on fanfiction.net, someone has written it already. :P

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