Does God love Satan?

[sexkitten]

Would NOT surprise me...

[Guest Gothicrip]

I can help you w/that TK.  In the book of revelations, that tacked-on acid trip I was talking about before, satan is referred to as "that serpent of old" at one point.  It is from this single verse that christians extrapolate to have the devil present in the garden.

 

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Uhm, I m not so sure about this but I think I read somewhere that the snake that tempted Eve was a completely different character and not the devil.

 

I think he was called Nechustan or something amongst those lines....

 

[narcissist]

Of course God loves Satan.

 

I've seen what he keeps in his bedside drawer.

[Amethyst]

You wrote about a bunch of invisible characters, and some stories in a book, and tried to put together a theory on them that affects the real world. Hello, hello... Seriously, if someone was as engrossed in The Lord of the Rings- believing it to be real history, trying to figure out if Gandalf loves Sauruman and how that affects Frodo (as though Frodo was a real person) and how that affects us today- we would call them delusional. Or crazy. Or if they are a billionaire, eccentric. But not "normal".

 

Or fanfiction writers.

[Amethyst]

Uhm, I m not so sure about this but I think I read somewhere that the snake that tempted Eve was a completely different character and not the devil.

 

I think he was called Nechustan or something amongst those lines....

 

 

That's the first I've ever heard that mentioned.

 

Not that it matters all that much. Just another myth to add to the pile.

[necrosmith]

In the Christian fable, I've oftened considered this as well.

 

We know the Bible lies about a lot of things. Could it also be lying about the nature of Satan?

 

It calls him the great deceiver. Yet, we know God has lied several times in scripture.

 

It calls him a destroyer. Yet we know God destroyed millions of innocent people.

 

You say that Satan was arrogant imagining that he could overthrow God's kingdom.

 

I say, I wonder what flaw, defect in God's character or defenses did Satan see that lead him to believe he could overthrow God.

 

He would know God better than anyone. He know it were impossible to defeat a perfect God. So, what if God isn't perfect?

 

For example we know he screwed up when he created Satan. If sin is a defect, and Satan sinned through rebelling against God, we know God created imperfection in Satan. How can perfection create imperfection?

 

Of course, since the Bible is a horrendous horror story type myth, this is all moot anyway.

[spamandham]

Asimov's post went straight to the point, but I'd like to make another one anyway.

 

The Christian god is omni^3, implying that he is totally complete and has no needs whatsoever, and thus does not experience anything (to experience implies something is added, not possible for a completed being). "Does god love Satan" only makes sense if "love" is used in the sense of "shows love" rather than "feels love".

 

Does god show love to Satan? No, unless you argue that hell is what Satan wants.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Does god show love to Satan? No, unless you argue that hell is what Satan wants.

I dunno...many here have said they'd rather end up in hell than serve such a monster as bible god. Maybe it is an argument that has merit. hehe.

[Sokudo Ningyou]

Maybe God is actually Satan and fucking with everyone, and the athiests who "reject" him (snort) are actually the ones who make out like bandits.

 

 

Which is why Saddam loves Satan. Duh. South Park knows everything.

 

 

And Memnoch the Devil is a book that, even as fiction and written by a Catholic, I always recommend Christians to read. Because it so neatly puts up the heart of the problem; God is an ass-hat and shouldn't be trusted. And, well, because Anne Rice writes some damn weird sex fetish books on the side, so it has to be good, damn it. (Belinda, anyone?)

[spamandham]

Maybe God is actually Satan ...

 

You just committed 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit', nanner nanner nanner...

[necrosmith]

Further, I wonder if Satan, who knew God better than anyone and the horrors that he would visit upon mankind, didn't find it his moral obligation to fight God and do everything in his power to try to stop him.

 

Satan was even able to convince a third of the angels that they had to fight God because it was the right thing to do despite the fact they were doomed.

 

Maybe Satan is a hero? He sacrificed himself to do the right thing?

[Abiyoyo]

I'm with Thomas here Yoyo.  The Satan and Devil MYTHS are entirely different fictional characters, not one in the same.  You really should READ the Old Testament IN FULL, nice and slow.

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I have. Nice and slow, yet not slow enough to where I dont understand the story and meaning. If looking at the Bible as the inspiration from God, not litteraly, How can this be confusing?

 

In Job, it says plain and day, Satan came into Gods presence and started a dialogue.

 

In NT, same there, Jesus was tempted by Satan( whom knows Gods word as well).

 

Jesus was very easily illustrated of talking to a demon, (with a sense that these where frightened of Him).

 

Yet, Satan was not easily frightened, more so being deceiving and tempting Jesus.

Jesus refered to it as Satan and his synogague.

 

Very easily understood to me.

 

Anyhow, if we get into other meanings and translations, we might as well throw in the Uncannonical Books as well, with some of the the other writings that were revealed. Example of one would be the Book of Adam and Eve, gives great deatil about Satan.

[Abiyoyo]

Thorns don't have a purpose?  Your god created them didn't he?  Why would an intelligent designer make something useless?

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Stand corrected. He used them in Jesus's prophecies. Gods uses everything He made, even if they dont know who made them.

[Abiyoyo]

YoYo, please explain something to me, that I have NOT been able to understand.

 

Where do you Xians get the idea that the serpent, mentioned in Genesis 3, Garden of Eden, et al., is the "devil"?

 

I've read and read this account.  I've looked at the Hebrew word, at it translates into "serpent", not "accuser", not "devil", not "Satan".

 

So why do Xians preach sermons and teach people that the DEVIL deceived Eve?

 

Doesn't "God" in fact punish the "serpent" to go on his belly, eating dust?

 

Are you Xians trying to tell me that the devil is now writhing around on his belly, sucking up dirt for a living?  (What kind of threat is he, then?)

 

And please, don't try to wiggle out of this by telling me what YOU believe, as opposed to what the church has hysterically been teaching.  The CHURCH is the organization in charge of indoctrination, not YOU.

 

Why does the church equate this Genesis 3 "serpent" with the "devil"?

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I actually have a better understanding of that now through the OT uncannical Book of Adam and Eve. The serpent is that, a serpent. Satan talked through the serpent to deceive them. This isnt something that the church would probualy accept, but when I die, I wont be judged by them, just God.

[spamandham]

but when I die, I wont be judged by them, just God.

 

I'm not going to be judged at all.

[Abiyoyo]

Dude - you really expect us to carry on a conversation with you, when this is how you view us?  You silly little brainwashed idiot.

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If I was a person that grew up around church and went every time the door opened, I might have been offended by that. Since Im not that person though, I thought the same thing when I read the comment. I have what I have from Gods leading, not Bible lessons in church.

[Abiyoyo]

YoYo (I'm sorry, but could you have chosen a more approprate name?),

 

OK, OK, I am going to try not to be sarcastic- try. 

 

While I was reading your post, I felt like I was in some kind of surreal place, one where adults who have been endowed with a normal intelligence capacity (somewhere in the average IQ spectrum) spend their lives rumminating on mythology, fantasy and fiction.  Seriously, I thought, "damn, how many brain cells have I wasted on this stuff in my lifetime.  How much of my memory stores are filled with utter bs."

 

Really, stop and just think for a minute on what you wrote.  You wrote about a bunch of invisible characters, and some stories in a book, and tried to put together a theory on them that affects the real world.  Hello, hello...  Seriously, if someone was as engrossed in The Lord of the Rings- believing it to be real history, trying to figure out if Gandalf loves Sauruman and how that affects Frodo (as though Frodo was a real person) and how that affects us today- we would call them delusional.  Or crazy.  Or if they are a billionaire, eccentric.  But not "normal".  Is the world filled with crazy people???? 

 

OK, on to your post... (this was the only stuff I have the energy to comment on, so it is a bit off topic.)

 

(YoYo)

The first being in Job where God meet with the sons of God, and Satan strolled in for a visit. God asked Satan, have you considered my servant Job that there is none more righteous on earth than him.

 

God has other sons?  Isn't that in total contradiction to this...

 

With these scriptures, I come to the conclusion that Jesus( Son of God, God) had authority over them on earth, though Satan acted in a more relentless, deceiving, rebellious pattern.

 

So does God have many sons or does God have one son who is also himself?

 

If you answer that angels are the sons of God, then I contend that Satan and the demons were also God's sons.  Therefore, according to your own mythology, humans were created as nothing more than chess pieces in the war between God and his rebellious other son.  So much for love.  Great world outlook.

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I have pondered that idea as well. To reply to the my state of thinking comment, I have not been molded and shaped by church. I have been given direction, comfort, chastized, corrected and strengthened by God and Him alone.

 

I have accepted other ancient scriptures geared toward God, Jesus. I look at these all the same as the Bible. Even some of the most radical churches dont acknowledge these writtings. Weird, how many people talk about the Catholic church, yet soley (even litterally) use the writtings accumulated in the Bible as there only source of God, and His way.

 

I have seen alot of people say what is said in Revelations about the changing of this Book. My question to those would be, Who wrote that? Did John have the Book there, and begin to publish it. Was he about to send it off to the printing press(in whatever AD?) Probualy not.

 

I would like to know if that portion of the text is in the Manuscripts. Could Book mean the Book of revelations, or could it mean the Books that were taken out. Still, I have pondered and prayed for God to show me His way, and he has. Out of all the Books taken out, the meaning of the way is ever present in whatever translation we have.

 

Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, and mind. From Deuteronomy to Revelations, that has rang loud and clear. (For me)

[Guest jfd]

Excellent query! Does God love Satan? Awesome... Never even occured to me.

 

Of course he should! It's his nature, right? God Is Love.

 

Of course, to me, this just illustrates how preposterous this notion of God's "love" is... The Bible already tells us - in no uncertain terms - what Satan's fate will be. Why no redemption for him?? Why not at least the possibilty?

 

Oh, but clearly God must have known for eternity that Satan would be beyond redemption!

 

Okay... but why then create him in the 1st place? Seems kind of, oh I dunno, EVIL!

 

Doesn't it?

[dogmatically_challenged]

Excellent query! Does God love Satan? Awesome... Never even occured to me.

 

Of course he should! It's his nature, right? God Is Love.

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[Dark Helmet]

Does god love satan? If god is all good and love and cannot suffer evil he should not. Plus, according to revelations he casts him into hell after the end of the world and I would hardly call that love...

 

On the same note... in job satan comes before god and engage in a conversation with him, so does that mean that god can accept evil in his presence. So if he can accept to have the devil, which is supposedly the ultimate evil, in his presence, why can he not accept mere sinners into heaven? biblegod doesn't make sense.

 

[edit] If i'm hijacking the thread let me know...

[thomas]

You just committed 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit', nanner nanner nanner...

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Somewhere in another tread I brought a link to this book. According to the author, the serpent represents a side of god’s character.

[thomas]

I can help you w/that TK.  In the book of revelations, that tacked-on acid trip I was talking about before, satan is referred to as "that serpent of old" at one point.  It is from this single verse that christians extrapolate to have the devil present in the garden.

 

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Exactly. And by doing so, Christians violate all principles about reading in context.

[Vixentrox]

Exactly. And by doing so, Christians violate all principles about reading in context.

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They have to do something to try to make the bible fit thier religious views.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Milton's Paradise Lost goes into this. As I was reading it I started to think of Satan being a separate being from God,with a separate will and intellect, and yet longing for God's love, and thinking he had lost it because he used to be God's most beloved creation and then God and Jesus started talking about Adam coming along and how Adam was going to be God's most beloved creation. I thought of how shut out Satan felt and it made me cry.

 

That's how "gay" I am! Heh heh (ducks...)

[trashy]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet in this thread, and I'm a bit surprised. How can you possibly respond to this guy's post when you can't even tell what the heck he's talking about? I swear, that's the most rambling, incoherent, discombobulated bunch of sentences strung together that I've ever seen! I'd love to see a tag-team debate with YoYo and Amanda on the christian side.

 

So, while I'd love to respond, I can't figure out exactly what the point of the whole post was. The closest I can come is one particular thought that seems to address the thread topic.....

 

This is my thought. Could God, being all holy and giving all grace, be trying to tell Satan that He is the only One and give him an oppurtunity as with all the others, to repent. My sole inclination to this thought is Job. Have you considered my servant Job? I took from all the other scripture, that it seemed as if this was a  gesture of grace from God. God wanted to ask Satan if He considered Job, as a witness for Satan, not a challenge.

 

Yes, that's certainly possible. I mean, anything is possible with the Bible. It's all in the eyes of the interpreter.