Confused

[Guest Confused_1981]

Hello,

 

I'm new to this forum. It is my wish to engage in a discussion concerning something which is bothering me; I would appreciate advice because my erratic philosophical mind is driving me crazy. Basically, I seem to have a different religious belief every single day (well almost every day). There are times when I believe in and have a spiritual experience with Jesus Christ and that he is the most powerful entity in the universe and beyond. Other times I am a religious pluralist and believe that all religions are true, and other times I'm an atheist. I'm a deeply spiritual individual who does believe in the transcendent/supernatural/mystical, and I am drawn towards eastern and ancient philosophies, but Christianity seems to have so much power over me therefore I am also very much drawn to Jesus Christ (in my subconscious mind) - it seems that Christianity has some kind of psychological hold over me - this may have something to do with the fact that I was baptised (Church of England) and had a religious grandmother.

 

I have a serious problem with The Bible because it can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways (it's also such a bizarre book) and by modern standards very poorly written (grammatically); it's very dangerous in many cases - i.e., Jesus stating that one should chop limbs off or gauge eyes out in order to avoid sin - whether or not this is a metaphor, there are certainly individuals who have taken this passage literally (serial killers for instance). I just cannot reconcile original sin and the fact that there are so many different religions. I've dabbled in other religions such as Mysticism, Buddhism, Shamanism, Pantheism, Lucidism, Panentheism and such like. I must admit that Christianity seems less appealing to me than the other aforementioned religions, and I've tried my hardest to make Jesus Christ seem appealing in my mind. I've attempted to merge Christianity with other religions in a kind of pluralistic sense to make it seem more appealing, however, I know that this is stupid - either I believe it or I don't right?

 

My main goal is to find a stable belief system in my life because I'm simply changing my philosophies on a daily basis. I guess I'm looking for advice and if anybody else has the same problem as I?

 

Thanks

[florduh]

Welcome, confused!

 

I'm sure you're not alone. Many people search for "The Answer" their entire life.

 

I think Christianity has a hold on you simply because it is the most prevalent religious belief system in your society. It is what you were taught.

 

Every religious philosophy has good and bad points, and none have any evidence that they are the one true answer. You have a choice to believe in an endless buffet of "spiritual" disciplines - reincarnation, various flavors of Buddhism and Hinduism, Pagan tradition, Islam, Voodoo, Scientology, and so on. I find most people with spiritual beliefs have those beliefs because they just feel right to them. There is no proof for any of it, yet there are those who fervently believe in something anyway.

 

Try studying the various religions and spiritual philosophies and get a sense of what feels right for you. I have made exhaustive studies in my search and have concluded that atheism is the only reasonable position for me to take. You may see it differently, but do your homework, and have a reason for what you believe.

[Ouroboros]

Wow. Yeah, that must be a very confusing situation. I'm not sure what to tell you. Good luck, maybe?

 

So what is it in Christianity that has an appeal to you? Which part of the "message" is it that you hold true, when you are in the "Christian" mode?

[Deva]

I must admit that Christianity seems less appealing to me than the other aforementioned religions, and I've tried my hardest to make Jesus Christ seem appealing in my mind. I've attempted to merge Christianity with other religions in a kind of pluralistic sense to make it seem more appealing, however, I know that this is stupid - either I believe it or I don't right?

 

My main goal is to find a stable belief system in my life because I'm simply changing my philosophies on a daily basis. I guess I'm looking for advice and if anybody else has the same problem as I?

 

Thanks

 

Welcome to the forums, Confused.

 

It sounds like you are trying to make religious syncretism work. That is combining different religions together to find something satisfactory. I know some people can do this, but it is very difficult for someone who is coming out of a strong religious background such as Christianity. Without a lot of self-analysis and determination its hard to drop all the conditioning.

 

Just a suggestion- why not really seriously take one of the religions you mention and devote your whole attention to one in particular? Maybe you could make a commitment to yourself to, for example, study Hinduism in depth for 3 months, and nothing else. If you just dabble, it seems to me that you may not pick up on how these various religions are contradicting each other. I don't think its possible to live long term with this kind of confusion.

 

You know that Christianity makes specific claims about Jesus Christ, which none of these other religions do. What is it exactly about Christ that you find attractive?

 

Only you can work this out for yourself, but I do sympathize. I am also "a deeply spiritual individual who does believe in the transcendent/supernatural/mystical, and I am drawn towards eastern and ancient philosophies." It took me about 10 years, but I finally settled myself on Buddhism.

[Guest Confused_1981]

Thank you for the replies.

 

I agree that there are a ridiculous number of religions to choose from - 4200 according to www.adherents.com (including hundreds of Christian denominations). I'm an extremely inquisitive character therefore it's difficult for me to believe in one religion as my abstract and rational mind just cannot reconcile the vast amount of contradictions in The Bible and the fact that all religions claim mutual exclusivity. I have encountered some mystical experience concerning Jesus and I really did feel like the holy spirit was in my life, but because of the way in which my thought patterns work, I'm constantly questioning whether it is a true communication with the holy spirit or whether it is my own mind convincing me that it is true (hallucination). The human brain is very capable of illusion therefore I can never be sure either way. I also fully agree that Christianity has a psychological hold over me because of the fact that it has 2 Billion followers (1 Billion more than other religion).

 

I suppose that I feel drawn to Christianity because of the teachings of altruism, love and wisdom - basically the moralistic side of Christianity. I'm also quite attracted to the power that Christianity has (Vatican / Roman Catholic Church). Then if I have some kind of mystical and/or synchronistic experience with Jesus - I start to believe, then when I return to my rational thinking mode, I'm instantly put off by the thought of The Bible, because of its bizarre passages, contradictions and the concept of original sin. I would also like to add this point: Fundamentalist Christians who are constantly rambling about "The Word of God (Bible)" and whom regurgitate scripture actually make me cringe; I just cannot believe how somebody could dogmatically accept something and completely disregard any other school of thought.

 

I think if anything, I am a spiritual mystic and I sometimes have Christian mystical experiences but I have never ever read the Bible; I suppose that I've cherry picket the moralistic and emotional concepts with which I agree.

[florduh]

" . . . I'm constantly questioning whether it is a true communication with the holy spirit or whether it is my own mind convincing me that it is true . . . "

 

Anomalous experiences happen frequently to many people. Is it a ghost? A god? An alien? A spiritual revelation?

 

Rational thought and emotions seem to be at odds within you. All mystic experiences do have explanations and can be created in the laboratory. What do you think is the most reasonable and likely explanation for your "mystical" experiences and "spiritual" feelings? Do you need the comfort of a spiritual realm to be happy? If so, your own interpretation of the universe is as valid as that of any other mystical guru. There are no answers to be found in the history of humankind; only hopes, fears and questions. Science is now answering a lot more of the questions, but fear and hope remain a part of being human.

[Deva]

I suppose that I feel drawn to Christianity because of the teachings of altruism, love and wisdom - basically the moralistic side of Christianity. I'm also quite attracted to the power that Christianity has (Vatican / Roman Catholic Church). Then if I have some kind of mystical and/or synchronistic experience with Jesus - I start to believe, then when I return to my rational thinking mode, I'm instantly put off by the thought of The Bible, because of its bizarre passages, contradictions and the concept of original sin. I would also like to add this point: Fundamentalist Christians who are constantly rambling about "The Word of God (Bible)" and whom regurgitate scripture actually make me cringe; I just cannot believe how somebody could dogmatically accept something and completely disregard any other school of thought.

 

I think if anything, I am a spiritual mystic and I sometimes have Christian mystical experiences but I have never ever read the Bible; I suppose that I've cherry picket the moralistic and emotional concepts with which I agree.

 

I'll bet there are many Catholics who really don't read the Bible. Sounds like in some respects you are drawn to Catholicism. The Catholic Church has the attractive mystical side to it, but I am afraid the original sin thing is always going to be in right in your face if you pursue that route. Confession of sin is, I am afraid, a requirement. Some people can succeed in ignoring that factor, but I am afraid can't advise you further, because I really don't know how they do it.

 

I think you just need time to work on this.

[Guest Confused_1981]

" . . . I'm constantly questioning whether it is a true communication with the holy spirit or whether it is my own mind convincing me that it is true . . . "

 

Anomalous experiences happen frequently to many people. Is it a ghost? A god? An alien? A spiritual revelation?

 

Rational thought and emotions seem to be at odds within you. All mystic experiences do have explanations and can be created in the laboratory. What do you think is the most reasonable and likely explanation for your "mystical" experiences and "spiritual" feelings? Do you need the comfort of a spiritual realm to be happy? If so, your own interpretation of the universe is as valid as that of any other mystical guru. There are no answers to be found in the history of humankind; only hopes, fears and questions. Science is now answering a lot more of the questions, but fear and hope remain a part of being human.

 

Thanks. I agree with much of what you've written. However, I disagree with you on your point that "all mystical experiences have explanations and can be created in the laboratory". I know where you're coming from; I would assume that you've come to the conclusion that materialistic reductionism (western science) can explain subjective mystical experiences. In my opinion, science is unable to explain subjective consciousness. Scientists abstractly generalise phenomena such as consciousness into the sum of its parts (neural activity) and this method falls very short in my view. I have an enormous amount of respect for science, however, I feek that does have limits. I've studied the philosophy of science and it is quite evident that science (once labelled natural philosophy) is absolutely dependent on empiricism and logic and can only operate from an abstract and reductionist framework. For instance, from the perspective of western science, the entire universe is governed by quantum mechanics; the overwhelming vast majority of scientists (if not all) simply do not have an intuitive understanding of quantum theory. I cannot rely on science to answer very deep and important philosophical questions such as: "Where did consciousness come from?" "How does subjective consciousness work?" "Why am I here?" "Am I significant?". Science is amazing at certain things and is something for which I have a great deal of respect.

 

As for questions in relation to my mystical experiences: I think that there are many explanations; the scientific discipline of cognitive neuroscience would probably reduce the experience to the fact that there is an increase of dopamine and serotonin neural activity in my brain, I really could be in touch with Christ, or I may be experiencing a supernatural entity but interpreting it as Christ because of the society in which I was born. I think that these are all rational explanations and are all equally valid - so can you understand why I'm confused?

[♦ Fuego ♦]

(I snipped these bits out of a larger bit I wrote while trying to figure out my spiritual journey over the past year. I think they apply here since the original post deals with discerning the truth of various spiritual paths and whether it makes sense to pick and choose parts from various faiths in order to find stability. I've sensed myself go through several "paradigm shifts" in a single day, and I wondered how that could be when reality hadn't changed.)

 

How we interpret the world around us is influenced by LOTS of things: brain chemistry, stress, amount of sleep, hunger, pain, good and bad relationships, strong emotion, work, food, caffeine, exercise or lack thereof, etc. What seems like abject reality one moment can be dismissed as nothing a couple of hours later, and vice versa, and permutations of each... Wheeee. The actual physical reality doesn't seem to change, but the meaning assigned to the various chunks of reality (as our minds partition it) does seem to vary considerably.

 

How do we know what is real, and what is imaginary? All that we see, hear, taste, touch, and smell are interpreted by our brains through a series of chemical/electrical interactions. Any of these senses can be dulled, tricked, enhanced, or eliminated. Reality can be difficult to discern sometimes, and the framework we have for interpreting the world and ourselves is influenced by many factors, some of which are entirely imaginary. Dreams can often seem very real and provoke physical reactions of fear, orgasm, laughter, and anger.

 

Belief can be founded purely in imagination simply because a trusted source seeded it, such as a child's belief in Santa Claus based on a parent's description. The child can experience wonder, awe, excitement, joy, and even feelings of love for this imaginary person. The child can bring him offerings of cookies and milk, in the fervent belief that she should do something nice for Santa. Eventually the child will realize the fact that he or she was tricked, that mommy and daddy sometimes tell fibs, and the belief will fade into mere nostalgia. A man can have deep feelings of love and passion for a woman who has absolutely no knowledge of him, or any interest in him at all. This same man can create an elaborate fantasy in his mind about this woman and their "relationship". A public case of this is John Hinckley and his obsession with the actress Jodie Foster that led him to shoot President Regan. While the reality is quite different than his fantasy, his feelings are nonetheless powerful and influential to him. Something will eventually cause this fantasy to stop or fade away. These are just two common examples of imagination having a strong influence on human belief and action.

 

It may be that spiritual feelings are a result of trying to make sense of the larger scheme of things and where we fit into the picture, and the experiences are simply our brains trying to fill in the missing information.

 

OR... Maybe there really is some kind of spiritual world that we don't understand and are a part of regardless of the various religions and attempts to understand reality. Since the brain can be fooled, it is hard to know for sure. I think that for myself, I have to remain uncertain about a possible spiritual world and simply try to enjoy my life and live peacefully with others. That doesn't sound particularly spooky or profound, but I think it is reasonable.

[florduh]

As I said - there are no answers, otherwise there would be one religion or none.

[Guest Confused_1981]

I'll bet there are many Catholics who really don't read the Bible. Sounds like in some respects you are drawn to Catholicism. The Catholic Church has the attractive mystical side to it, but I am afraid the original sin thing is always going to be in right in your face if you pursue that route. Confession of sin is, I am afraid, a requirement. Some people can succeed in ignoring that factor, but I am afraid can't advise you further, because I really don't know how they do it.

 

I think you just need time to work on this.

 

Thanks. Yes, I agree with you that I will never be able to get away from the concept of original sin unless I went for one of the denominations that refutes the idea of original sin (such as Mormonism) but still, I just cannot get my head around it as a strict belief system.

 

I also agree that I need time to work on this; maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, maybe a universal spiritual truth does not exist (except in certain realms within the scientific method).