♦ nivek ♦ Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Universal healthcare and the waistline policeChristian Science Monitor by Paul Hsieh "Imagine a country where the government regularly checks the waistlines of citizens over age 40. Anyone deemed too fat would be required to undergo diet counseling. Those who fail to lose sufficient weight could face further 'reeducation' and their communities subject to stiff fines. Is this some nightmarish dystopia? No, this is contemporary Japan. The Japanese government argues that it must regulate citizens' lifestyles because it is paying their health costs. This highlights one of the greatly underappreciated dangers of 'universal healthcare.' Any government that attempts to guarantee healthcare must also control its costs. The inevitable next step will be to seek to control citizens' health and their behavior. Hence, Americans should beware that if we adopt universal healthcare, we also risk creating a 'nanny state on steroids' antithetical to core American principles." (01/07/09) http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0107/p09s01-coop.html
OpheliaGinger Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Even though it would infringe on each person's individual freedoms, it probably is a good idea. We'll just have to see how it turns out for Japan.
Eponymic Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Even though it would infringe on each person's individual freedoms, it probably is a good idea. We'll just have to see how it turns out for Japan. Excessive government is never a good idea. Just like excessive religion. It all needs to bad bad things
Amethyst Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 This would be worse than living with my biological mother for the rest of my life!
Amethyst Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Even though it would infringe on each person's individual freedoms, it probably is a good idea. We'll just have to see how it turns out for Japan. Why do you think that? Excessive criticism of what one eats will not turn everyone into fashion models and Olympic atheletes. In fact, what it did for me, was to lead me to gain weight due to a lifetime of diets that don't work, and major anxiety issues with food that I still have. To this day, I still avoid eating food in public unless I'm with close friends or family members. I have my mother to thank for that.
OpheliaGinger Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 I'm actually more in favor of tribalism then large government. It does reek of large/bloated government but we are a nation at risk. Projections show that if America does not start to eat more healthily, in 50 (I think it's 50 but I could be wrong) years, nearly 100% of the American population will be obese. I'll be the first to admit that I am among the worst when it comes to eating unhealthily. It might work better if the higher calorie junk foods are more expensive then the healthier foods.
Ixchel Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 I say tax the junky foods like NY is doing with soda.
Amethyst Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 It isn't the food. It's the lack of exercise. We virtually tether people to desks for 8 hours a day or more from childhood on up, stress them out totally, demand they only take an hour break from their desk a day at most, and then expect them to be skinny. Until we end the 8 hour work/school day, things will not change. But still. Would you really, honestly, want to be told *by the government* that on your birthday or Christmas, you could not eat what everyone else was eating and that you could only eat say, lettuce? That doesn't fly with me. Also, some those health care studies are using junk science. Why is it people only question what they disagree with personally but not everything else that is ingrained into our culture? As skeptics, we need to critically think about everything, *especially* things that are accepted by the general public.
OpheliaGinger Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 There is just an article on Yahoo news that states that exercise isn't the major key. http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/200901...wontcureobesity
Amethyst Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Really, cause any time I've ever lost any weight it was because I was walking or doing exercise of some sort. Every day, for more than 30 minutes. Last year they said exercise WAS the major key. http://www.themedguru.com/articles/more_ex...ss-8616811.html http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/885731...loss/index.html http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20080728/ex...ping-weight-off This year it's not. Next month, I bet you that exercise will be popular again, after everyone has failed with the New Year's fad diets of 2009 and is tired of forbidding themselves from eating certain foods and using measuring cups. The experts cannot make up their minds and most likely, never will be able to. It is best to do what works for your body. Weight loss is not the one-size-fits-all approach they make it out to be. There is no magic pill. And again, I reiterate that one SHOULD question the media at all times. Don't believe everything you read in the news, even if you agree with it.
Asimov Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 I work in the fitness industry; I do personal training and coaching. I also work with lifestyle management in areas that one can control such as eating habits (among other habits). I can tell you straight up that some things work better for some people than others. The reason why people are fat depends on a number of factors. It could be hormonal (either stress induced or organs aren't producing a proper hormone balance), it can be related to eating habits (not getting the proper level of macro nutrients for their body, snacking too much, going out too much, eating too many heavily processed foods, eating too little), it can be related to exercise (too much exercise, too little exercise, no exercise), and it can also be mental in nature (no motivation, low self-esteem, bad body image, anorexia nervosa or anorexia athletica or bulimia). So of course studies are going to find supportive factors for anything and anyone, and people will generally look at those studies and accept them in order to bolster their opinion that they are incapable of losing weight. Biologically and genetically, nobody is meant to be obese. Some people are capable of gaining more fat genetically because it was required of them to survive...that does not mean that it's beyond their control. What is really needed is individualized lifestyle analysation and standard guess and check.
Amethyst Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 What is really needed is individualized lifestyle analysation and standard guess and check. Ramen! I think a lot of the problem is that everyone wants a magic answer for this...and there really isn't one. It's all based on the individual and their body chemistry.
Asimov Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 What is really needed is individualized lifestyle analysation and standard guess and check. Ramen! I think a lot of the problem is that everyone wants a magic answer for this...and there really isn't one. It's all based on the individual and their body chemistry. My magic answer is albuterol.
Mike D Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 There are so many benefits to regular exercise I don't know why people don't do it.....but it takes commitment. If miss even one day I get neurotic.
Vigile Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 It isn't the food. It's the lack of exercise. It's the food too. Almost everyone I know who has lived both in the US and abroad has had trouble with weight while living in the US but not abroad. Last time I was there my blood pressure was through the roof and I had to almost double the dosage of BP meds I have to take.
Guest Marty Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 It isn't the food. It's the lack of exercise. No, it's the food. 14 months ago I weighed 230 pounds, and today I weigh 160. I lost those 70 pounds by eating ONLY whole, unprocessed foods and avoiding ALL preservatives and hydrogenated oil and high fructose corn syrup and salt. I try real hard to avoid sugar if I can, and use either brown sugar or pineapple juice to sweeten my cooking. I make my own bread, ketchup, and even my own veggie burgers! I make sure half of my diet is raw food, and the other half is whole grain, unprocessed (unless its processed by me) and high in nutrients. What I basically did was decide to eat only the foods that would have been available some 300 years ago, before science started to learn how to preserve and enhance foods. I am also a VERY lazy son of a bitch and did not do a single bit of exercise during those 14 months. I park at the far end of the parking lot and walk into stores, and use stairs instead of escalators or elevators, but that's about the extent of my energy output. I work in audio, which means I sit in between a set of speakers all day in an air conditioned studio or theatre. The most exercise I get at work is getting up for more tea. It really is about what we eat and also how much of it we eat. Calorie counting is also very important. Most Americans eat around 4,000 calories a day without even realizing it...at least I was. The key is to never eat anything that comes in a box. It is full of preservatives and salt, and certain additives, like hydrogenated oil, are only a step or two away from being a plastic. The body doesn't know what to do with that, so it stores it away as fat because it cannot use it as energy.
Asimov Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Seriously guys, it's one thing for one person and another thing for other people. For you and Vigile and in a lot of people's cases certain foods or the way they're prepared don't agree with them. For others it's exercise. Exercise isn't a bad thing and neither is eating healthily. Marty I'm amazed that you claim to be so lazy yet you go to the trouble of making your own ketchup...lol
nightflight Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 No matter what diet, its always good to ditch the processed food.
twincats Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 It isn't the food. It's the lack of exercise. We virtually tether people to desks for 8 hours a day or more from childhood on up, stress them out totally, demand they only take an hour break from their desk a day at most, and then expect them to be skinny. Until we end the 8 hour work/school day, things will not change. But still. Would you really, honestly, want to be told *by the government* that on your birthday or Christmas, you could not eat what everyone else was eating and that you could only eat say, lettuce? That doesn't fly with me. Also, some those health care studies are using junk science. Why is it people only question what they disagree with personally but not everything else that is ingrained into our culture? As skeptics, we need to critically think about everything, *especially* things that are accepted by the general public. Quite right about the critical thinking thing! I have found a blog run by a nurse with a MS degree and a background in statistics and clinical studies. She lays it on the line about what all the 'latest' studies really conclude and it's often NOT what is reported in the media. Check it out: http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/ I've always been an advocate of health at any size (HAES) and Sandy's blog entries support the idea that people CAN be fat and fit. She also addresses the myth about 100% of people being obese by 2048 here: http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/0...rt-obesity.html Also, did you know that if you find yourself in ICU, that you have a 17% better chance of recovery (described as "surviving hospitalization" in the study) if you're obese? http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/0...us-illness.html And even if you don't buy it, isn't it better to at least eat better and get some exercise even if you don't lose weight? How can it not be?? Every legitimate study done on the subject of weight loss in the long term finds that somewhere between 95% and 98% of people gain back more than, all or a significant portion of any and all weight that they lose within 5 years. Not counting WLS, where there are exactly NO long term studies in existence, but anecdotal evidence is starting to suggest that the weight comes back by 10 years post surgery in too many cases. I'll go with fat and fit rather than suffer and/or spend a pile of money for a 3-5% chance of long-term weight loss success, thanks.
PaulQ Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Back to the original topic (which is about rights), bear in mind that Canada has had universal health care for all of its citizens for a long time now, and nobody's lifestyle is being policed. Rather, there is discussion as to whether smokers, by virtue of their choice to smoke, would automatically be "Opted out" for coverage for treatment of cigarette-related health issues (respiratory diseases, cancer), which is probably a good idea to keep our health care viable. There is also on-going discussion about the long-term viability of providing people classified as obese with free or subsidized gym memberships with subsidized or free assessments and personal training, at their option. What is a real threat to universal health care for people in the United States is the pharmaceutical industry, which makes incredible profits on medicine that is, in reality, cheap to develop and manufacture. Here in Canada, we can use "Generic" versions of the same drugs for treatments at a fraction of a cost, which helps to keep our universal health care system viable.
Amethyst Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 And even if you don't buy it, isn't it better to at least eat better and get some exercise even if you don't lose weight? How can it not be?? I agree. But I also have a problem with any government that would micro-manage everyone's diet as if we were infants. This is America, not Iran. If people want to eat burgers and fries and not exercise, let them. If they want to be vegan and hit the gym for 2 hours a day every day, let them. What you do with your body should be your choice and not the government's. We should not let the government dictate what all of us eat or drink or do with our private lives.
Guest Marty Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Marty I'm amazed that you claim to be so lazy yet you go to the trouble of making your own ketchup...lol Everybody says that, but it actually not that hard to make your own food. Granted, I am a single guy with no kids, but I do work in entertainment, with little to no free time. It doesn't take much more time to make ketchup than it does to get in the car and drive to the store to buy some, and I've actually gotten rather good at multi-tasking several dishes at once and freeze them to last all month. The fact that I lost so much weight so quickly and easily is all the motivation I need to keep it going and find even more things to make myself! I see everybody else trying this diet or that diet, counting calories and watching their carbs, exercising their ass off, and yet they stay the same weight or lose a bit then add it back on. I tried a lot of that shit in previous years myself. The one thing that really sticks out with me is that they are all still eating prepackaged convenience foods. Once I started reading labels and then wikipediea'ing all the ingredients that I didn't know what they were (most of them), I started to think maybe that was my problem. It worked. I realize everybody is different and may not have the same success I have, but we all evolved to eat fresh, whole foods. Nobody is optimized to eat hydrogenated oil. All I'm saying is that what "they" put in food has a huge impact on how our bodies digest and use the energy it contains. I think the food we eat plays a bigger role than exercise in weight management.
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