Legion Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I'm not a Buddhist, but in my opinion, paganism is far less evolved than Buddhism. But then that may be a great point of attraction for people to paganism; it's primeval. I think we need to define 'Paganism,' a little more. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micksherlock Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I'm not a Buddhist, but in my opinion, paganism is far less evolved than Buddhism. But then that may be a great point of attraction for people to paganism; it's primeval. I think we need to define 'Paganism,' a little more. Why? If you are going to compare two things, i.e, Buddhism and "Paganism" you need to understand what it is you are comparing. Firstly, what form of Buddhism are you comparing to what kind of paganism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I'm not a Buddhist, but in my opinion, paganism is far less evolved than Buddhism. But then that may be a great point of attraction for people to paganism; it's primeval. I think we need to define 'Paganism,' a little more. Why? If you are going to compare two things, i.e, Buddhism and "Paganism" you need to understand what it is you are comparing. Firstly, what form of Buddhism are you comparing to what kind of paganism? So what you really meant to say is... "I think you need to define paganism a little bit more." Don't you try this sneaky "we" shit with me. I am Legion. I am many. I am the we. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I suppose I could try and go into a long diatribe about paganism and Buddhism, but I don't feel like it (and I'm not really qualified ). Paganism is surely many 100's of thousands of years old. Buddhism is a relative new comer. Yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I don't think you fully understand, Kurari. I'm not being facetious when I say that I'm an asshole. Not only do I kill rattlesnakes every chance I get- I enjoy it. And I enjoy killing other critters too- especially the ones that I eat. I'm pretty sure that this mentality doesn't fit into modern paganism... but am I not an animal too? Am I not a product of nature? If other critters enjoy killing (mostly but not entirely for food), then why the hell can't I? And I don't have much if any appreciation for rattlesnakes. Other snakes eat rats too- but they can't kill you or your pets. Some animals (a tapeworm for instance, or a rattlesnake or a tick) are just useless and destructive from my perspective. MUST everything have a purpose and be appreciated? Aren't there some things in life that we'd just be better off without? Here's a fun fact that most here won't be aware of: deer go out of their way to kill rattlesnakes. I wouldn't have believed it either- but I've seen the tracks myself on several occasions. When deer run across a rattlesnake, they will stomp the things to death. Now I know ya'll pagans won't hold this against a deer. So why can't I do the same? Honey, I'm a FARMER. I raise chicks from tiny adorable balls of fluff and slit their throats when they are roaster size. I love guns. If I catch anything preying on my livestock, it will pay for it's meal out of it's hide. While I don't blame the predators for needing to eat, I can't have a raccoon thinking my chickens are an easy meal when I need them for my own family. Raccoon, btw, is awesome BBQ'd and in stews. The raccoons also are one of the few animals that love to eat slugs, and here in the rainy Northwest, slugs are dangerous to my garden. If they will stay away from my chickens, they are more than welcome to all the slugs they can munch on. Like I said, you can't lump all pagans together. There are LOTS of us who eat meat, go hunting, and raise livestock for slaughter and thank the Gods for a good hunt. There are many who find that to be an anathema to "harm none, do as ye will" and go out of their way to be vegans. Personally, I love rattlesnakes. I've never had a problem with them. Anything that gets rats out of ruining my feed and hay and garden and making me lose money is OK by me. I am far, FAR more scared of what a population boom of rats and mice will do to my farm than I am of encountering a rattler. Hell, at least I never find rattlers in my nestboxes like I do gopher snakes eating my eggs! And gopher snakes are "harmless" in that they aren't venomous but they sure have a worse impact on me and my life! Just because we don't think something doesn't have a purpose doesn't mean there isn't one there. That's the way Nature works. Everything gets used to the benefit of keeping the system of life going. This includes the ugly side of it. Take the mosquito for example. As annoying as these parasites are, spreading disease and itchiness, they are still critical to feed birds, frogs, and fish. Without them, the food chain would break down and that would have a horrible affect on humans. Ticks and fleas? Also a vital part of the food chain. My Guinea Hens LOVE ticks and fleas as food, which in turn helps keep my farm free of pests. You see where this is going? A pagan AND a farmer? That's awesome. I'll never be either, but I generally like both. It's nice to know that not all pagans are moralistic fluff-bunnies. Not that I hate moralistic fluff-bunnies or anything... I just think they're kinda silly. So when it comes to pagan stuff- do you literally believe in it? Or is it more of a symbolic thing? Thanks! It's a lot of HARD work, but it's also a lot of fun. It gives me a great sense of peace and happiness. And of course during this economy, it's helping make sure we'll continue to have food and a way to save and make money. My own personal practice is what is called an Eclectic Solitary. This means that I work alone and not with a coven, and I don't follow any particular tradition but I will incorporate aspects of many different traditions and ideas into my own practice. Practice Knowledge, Wisdom, and Common Sense - This is central to my practice, probably above all else. Study and education are something I highly revere and seek constantly. Revere Nature and our Earth - I do my best in my farm to be as kind to the animals and the environment as I can. This means practicing techniques like polyculture, permaculture, and recycling which help make it so I don't have to use many if any antibiotics or pesticides. It makes us all healthier. Reduce Suffering - Life and Death are inevitable, but that doesn't mean I have to add to the suffering we all feel. I take great care with my livestock in their lives and deaths. Treat them kindly and gently, and when it's time to go to the stewpot, death should be as fast and painless as possible. Practice Charity - If something or someone needs my help, I will do what I can, if I can. Keep the Sabbats and Esbats - These serve two functions for me, both spiritual and practical. Sabbats are holidays that mark important points in the seasons, and Esbats are Full and/or New moon rituals or they are also coven meetings. There are 8 Sabbats that I observe. They mark things like the equinoxes and solstices. This is a time for my family to get together, feast, and enjoy what that part of the season has to bring and observe what nature is doing, but it's also important for me because I can know important things like when and what to plant. Our next Sabbat is Midsummer, which happens on June 21st. That's the summer solstice, and while I'll be baking lavender cupcakes and making lemonade, it's also time for me to clear out the remnants of the spring annuals and harvest that is over, get my summer harvest sprouts in the greenhouse transplanted to the ground (basil, herbs, lettuce), and start getting the fall-harvest seedlings (like my pumpkins) started in their pots. I observe the full moon Esbats as points each month to be sure to take a time out and meditate. I'll take an herbal bath, light a white candle, meditate on the moon and any pressing problems I have bothering me. It's a point to let go and focus on myself for a bit and a stopping point to recognize time is passing me by (which is easy to forget about when you're working dawn to dusk every day). I also keep track of the moon because I live near various kinds of water, and the moon phase during fishing season depends on when and what is worth working on catching. High tides mean the larger fish and crabs come closer to the shore, and low tides mean I can get shellfish like clams and oysters. The Goddess and God - I'm an atheist. I pretty much only factor gods as methods of meditation and as the archetypes I see in nature and stories to help me think. I do not think of them as literal beings, so I do not pray, practice magic, draw circles, or leave offerings. I do still have my alter though, with the symbols on it of candles, chalice, athame, and so on as more symbolism to help me rezone my thoughts and basically relax. All this shit sounds really fuckin cool now that I'm an ex-er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micksherlock Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I'm not a Buddhist, but in my opinion, paganism is far less evolved than Buddhism. But then that may be a great point of attraction for people to paganism; it's primeval. I think we need to define 'Paganism,' a little more. Why? If you are going to compare two things, i.e, Buddhism and "Paganism" you need to understand what it is you are comparing. Firstly, what form of Buddhism are you comparing to what kind of paganism? So what you really meant to say is... "I think you need to define paganism a little bit more." Don't you try this sneaky "we" shit with me. I am Legion. I am many. I am the we. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I suppose I could try and go into a long diatribe about paganism and Buddhism, but I don't feel like it (and I'm not really qualified ). Paganism is surely many 100's of thousands of years old. Buddhism is a relative new comer. Yes? Yes and No! Buddhism may be described as a form of Paganism!! Am I blowin your mind now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yes and No! Buddhism may be described as a form of Paganism!! Am I blowin your mind now? My mind has not yet been blown. But it's not from a lack of my society trying to persuade me to do it. -------------------------------- Why would you consider Buddhism to be a form of paganism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micksherlock Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yes and No! Buddhism may be described as a form of Paganism!! Am I blowin your mind now? My mind has not yet been blown. But it's not from a lack of my society trying to persuade me to do it. -------------------------------- Why would you consider Buddhism to be a form of paganism? How do you spell, Touche, or Toushe? Can't be bothered looking it up, and excuse my french! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yes and No! Buddhism may be described as a form of Paganism!! Am I blowin your mind now? My mind has not yet been blown. But it's not from a lack of my society trying to persuade me to do it. -------------------------------- Why would you consider Buddhism to be a form of paganism? How do you spell, Touche, or Toushe? Can't be bothered looking it up, and excuse my french! It's spelled like 'douche'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 You guys are a riot. no seriously I think I need riot gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micksherlock Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yes and No! Buddhism may be described as a form of Paganism!! Am I blowin your mind now? My mind has not yet been blown. But it's not from a lack of my society trying to persuade me to do it. -------------------------------- Why would you consider Buddhism to be a form of paganism? How do you spell, Touche, or Toushe? Can't be bothered looking it up, and excuse my french! It's spelled like 'douche'. Ok, that was funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yes and No! Buddhism may be described as a form of Paganism!! Am I blowin your mind now? My mind has not yet been blown. But it's not from a lack of my society trying to persuade me to do it. -------------------------------- Why would you consider Buddhism to be a form of paganism? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pagan #2 and #5 say Pagan = Not Christian, Not Jewish, and Not Muslim. Therefore Buddhists must be pagans. lol. It's a rather lousy definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Paganism, as I understand it, imbues various natural forces and agents with divine power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Isn't the word "pagan" rather christian in origin and meaning? Seems odd that non-christians would label their religion with a christian term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I honestly don't know Rank. I thought I was familiar with the loose definition of the term. Pagan, for me, does not equate with heathen. I routinely tell people that I'm a heathen, but if I told them I was pagan that would seem misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I'm not saying your definition is wrong- I don't think it is. But I'm talking about the origins of the term, and the implications of the term. http://ancienthistor...rms/g/Pagan.htm Definition: The term pagan is used today to signify people who do not believe in the monotheistic god of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. It is used much like "heathen". It also refers to pantheists and neo-pagans. Pagan comes from a Latin word paganus , meaning villager, rustic, civilian, and itself comes from pagus which refers to a rural district. http://www.etymonlin....php?term=pagan paganlate 14c., from L.L. paganus "pagan," in classical Latin "villager, rustic, civilian," from pagus "rural district," originally "district limited by markers," thus related to pangere "to fix, fasten," from PIE root *pag- "to fix" (see pact). Religious sense is often said to derive from conservative rural adherence to the old gods after the Christianization of Roman towns and cities; but the word in this sense predates that period in Church history, and it is more likely derived from the use of paganus in Roman military jargon for "civilian, incompetent soldier," which Christians (Tertullian, c.202; Augustine) picked up with the military imagery of the early Church (e.g. milites "soldier of Christ," etc.). Applied to modern pantheists and nature-worshippers from 1908. I think that originally, it was kinda like calling somebody a peasant- but referring more specifically to their religion. Nowadays it pretty much means a non-Abrahamic religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 So basically, the word "pagan" is the red-headed step child of English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 So basically, the word "pagan" is the red-headed step child of English. Not sure what you're getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 So basically, the word "pagan" is the red-headed step child of English. Not sure what you're getting at. I mean, from what you've provided here above, it seems to me that the word has connoted so many diferent things throughout the ages as to be rendered meaningless. The word seems to have been abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 So basically, the word "pagan" is the red-headed step child of English. Not sure what you're getting at. I mean, from what you've provided here above, it seems to me that the word has connoted so many diferent things throughout the ages as to be rendered meaningless. The word seems to have been abused. I think that's probably true of lotsa words... not my field of expertise though. Just the same, the word is almost exclusively christian in its origins and its use. If I was a pagan, I think I'd try and come up with a different term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micksherlock Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Isn't the word "pagan" rather christian in origin and meaning? Seems odd that non-christians would label their religion with a christian term. You are right. It means countrysider, and referred to those who were not yet converted to Christianity, which was popular in the big cities of the eastern wing of the Roman Empire. Paganism is Hinduism, isis worship, the religions of ancient Mesopotamia, Persia, Greece, Egypt, Phoenicia, etc.. And many of these systems were highly advanced and complicated. Many were peaceful and did not allow the eating of meat, nor the killing of any living thing, alot like Buddhism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Because I like snakes, I'm a fluff-bunny? I worship Set. Fuck you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Because I like snakes, I'm a fluff-bunny? I worship Set. Fuck you. Did I say that? Or did you just infer it? If I said it, please quote me. And I MIGHT apologize (I'd have to see the context). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Because I like snakes, I'm a fluff-bunny? Not just any ordinary fluffy bunny. A magical fluffy bunny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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