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A few things here I have run across in "the physical" that appear to me to loom large in the evidence for Christianity catagory......the presumption, that men did not understand these physical properties many hundreds of years ago, but they, to me, are in agreement with Scripture as they have come to understanding. The question is: How do you feel about these? Please know, I am no expert in any of these fields, so I would wecome knowledge that is not known to me upon posting this. I will try to explain also why I see them as agreeing....

 

1) The triple point of water in the Trinity argument. The Bible talks about that God's Spirit is water . To me, as we have discussed previously, God would be like solid water, Jesus, water in the liquid form, and the Holy Spirit, water as vapor. (The ole 1+1+1= 1 joke). Well, here it is in nature, the three phases existing simultaneously as one single water molecule....I think Wiki even goes so far as to call it a "substance" rather than water...

Also, the separation of the waters(forms) by God in Genesis.

 

 

[edit] Triple point of water

Main article: Water (molecule)#Triple point

 

A typical phase diagram. The dotted green line gives the anomalous behaviour of waterThe single combination of pressure and temperature at which water, ice, and water vapour can coexist in a stable equilibrium occurs at exactly 273.16 K (0.01 °C) and a partial vapour pressure of 611.73 pascals (ca. 6.1173 millibars, 0.0060373057 atm). At that point, it is possible to change all of the substance to ice, water, or vapor by making arbitrarily small changes in pressure and temperature. Note that even if the total pressure of a system is well above 611.73 pascals (e.g. normal atmospheric pressure), if the partial pressure of the water vapour is 611.73 pascals then the system can still be brought to the triple point of water. Strictly speaking, the surfaces separating the different phases should also be perfectly flat, to avoid the effects of surface tensions.

 

Water has an unusual and complex phase diagram, although this does not affect general comments about the triple point. At high temperatures, increasing pressure results first in liquid and then solid water. (Above around 109 Pa a crystalline form of ice forms that is denser than liquid water.) At lower temperatures under compression, the liquid state ceases to appear, and water passes directly from gas to solid.

 

At constant pressures above the triple point, heating ice causes it to pass from solid to liquid to gas, or steam, also known as water vapor. At pressures below the triple point, such as those that occur in outer space, where the pressure is near zero, liquid water cannot exist. In a process known as sublimation, ice skips the liquid stage and becomes steam when heated.

 

The triple point pressure of water was used during the Mariner 9 mission to Mars as a reference point to define "sea level". More recent missions use laser altimetry and gravity measurements instead of pressure to define elevation on Mars.[3]

 

2) Laminin....a case for Jesus who holds all things together. The agreement here lies in the molecule exists as the cross shape, "holding all things together". I think this one is pretty straightforward, so I digress.

 

Laminin

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Laminin is a protein found in the extracellular matrix, the sheets of protein that form the substrate of all internal organs also called the basement membrane. It is the major non-collagenous component of the basal lamina, such as those on which cells of an epithelium sit.[1] It has four arms that can bind to four other molecules. The three shorter arms are particularly good at binding to other laminin molecules, which is what makes it so great at forming sheets. The long arm is capable of binding to cells, which helps anchor the actual organs to the membrane.

 

The laminin protein is made up of three separate parts, called the A, B1, and B2 chains. That gives it a total of six "ends", which accounts for a lot of its flexibility in connecting up various kinds of molecules. Because of this, scientists who create biomaterials are extremely interested in the whole family of laminins[citation needed]. They are a family of glycoproteins that are an integral part of the structural scaffolding in almost every animal tissue. Laminins are secreted and incorporated into cell-associated extracellular matrices.

 

Laminin is vital to making sure overall body structures hold together. Improper production of laminin can cause muscles to form improperly, leading to a form of muscular dystrophy.

 

3) Celluostic compounds used in water purification. This one is tricky even for me friends......please remember, I am no expert, so I may be totally wrong about this thought. If I am not mistaken, I think celluostic compounds are used in water purification, celluose being essentially, wood.

 

OK, remember when Moses put the stick in the water to make it potable for God's people (Exodus, i think)? Jesus, also through the stick(cross), made the water(God's Spirit), potable for humanity by His actions on the cross (stick), allowing the people again able to "quench their thirsts"..

 

Cellulose

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Cellulose, a linear polymer of D-glucose units (two are shown) linked by β(1→4)-glycosidic bonds.

Three-dimensional structure of cellulose, with four glucose units visible. (Black=carbon; red=oxygen; white=hydrogen.)

Space-filling model of cellulose, with four glucose units visible.Cellulose is an organic compound with the formula (C6H10O5)n, a polysaccharide consisting of a linear chain of several hundred to over ten thousand β(1→4) linked D-glucose units.[1][2]

 

Cellulose is the structural component of the primary cell wall of green plants, many forms of algae and the oomycetes. Some species of bacteria secrete it to form biofilms. Cellulose is the most common organic compound on Earth. About 33 percent of all plant matter is cellulose (the cellulose content of cotton is 90 percent and that of wood is 50 percent).[3]

 

For industrial use, cellulose is mainly obtained from wood pulp and cotton. It is mainly used to produce cardboard and paper; to a smaller extent it is converted into a wide variety of derivative products such as cellophane and rayon. Converting cellulose from energy crops into biofuels such as cellulosic ethanol is under investigation as an alternative fuel source.

 

Some animals, particularly ruminants and termites, can digest cellulose with the help of symbiotic micro-organisms that live in their guts. Cellulose is not digestible by humans and is often referred to as 'dietary fiber' or 'roughage', acting as a hydrophilic bulking agent for feces.

 

Contents [hide]

1 History

2 Commercial products

2.1 Cellulose source and energy crops

3 Structure and properties

4 Assaying cellulose

5 Biosynthesis

6 Breakdown (cellulolysis)

7 Hemicellulose

8 Derivatives

9 References

10 See also

11 External links

 

 

 

[edit] History

Cellulose was discovered in 1838 by the French chemist Anselme Payen, who isolated it from plant matter and determined its chemical formula.[1][4] Cellulose was used to produce the first successful thermoplastic polymer, celluloid, by Hyatt Manufacturing Company in 1870. Hermann Staudinger determined the polymer structure of cellulose in 1920. The compound was first chemically synthesized (without the use of any biologically-derived enzymes) in 1991, by Kobayashi and Shoda.[5]

 

 

[edit] Commercial products

Cellulose is the major constituent of paper and cardboard and of textiles made from cotton, linen, and other plant fibers.

 

Cellulose can be converted into cellophane, a thin transparent film, and into rayon, an important fiber that has been used for textiles since the beginning of the 20th century. Both cellophane and rayon are known as "regenerated cellulose fibers"; they are identical to cellulose in chemical structure and are usually made from viscose, a viscous solution made from cellulose. A more recent and environmentally friendly method to produce rayon is the Lyocell process.

 

Cellulose is the raw material in the manufacture of nitrocellulose (cellulose nitrate) which was historically used in smokeless gunpowder and as the base material for celluloid used for photographic and movie films until the mid 1930s.

 

Cellulose is used to make water-soluble adhesives and binders such as methyl cellulose and carboxymethyl cellulose which are used in wallpaper paste. Microcrystalline cellulose (E460i) and powdered cellulose (E460ii) are used as inactive fillers in tablets and as thickeners and stabilizers in processed foods.

 

Cellulose is used in the laboratory as the stationary phase for thin layer chromatography. Cellulose fibers are also used in liquid filtration, sometimes in combination with diatomaceous earth or other filtration media, to create a filter bed of inert material. Cellulose is further used to make hydrophilic and highly absorbent sponges.

 

Cellulose insulation made from recycled newsprint is becoming popular as an environmentally preferable material for building insulation.

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

END3

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We have yet to find an invisible "spiritual molecule".

 

If the Xian version of God was real then my life with him should have been better than it is now without him.

 

Does not compute.

 

The things you've mentioned have tangible proof. God does not. God cannot be proved with observations or tests.

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End,

 

The answer is nowhere.

 

Celllose has not ever been linked in my head to christianity.

 

Nor has candy floss,

 

the rules of rugby or

 

who will be Paris Hilton's british best friend

 

just in case you are wondering.

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End, that's quite a stretch for me.

 

1. The water in the Bible seemed to signify cleansing or immersion in the Spirit. I never made a connection to three states. I'm no chemist, but water can also exist as a plasma, so that's four states, not three.

 

2. Laminin was around a long time before the Jesus story. Nobody really knows if the crucifiction supposedly happened on a stake, a T shape, or the familiar cross shape. The cross shape was in use before the Christians started using it as a symbol. Besides, if you look at laminin from another orientation, it's an upside down cross, denoting Satan! Besides, the protein really looks more like a caduceus than a simple cross.

 

3. As far as a wooden stick containing cellulose . . . I have no idea what the connection might be. Carbon might have been more appropriate to represent the idea of making water potable.

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1. The water in the Bible seemed to signify cleansing or immersion in the Spirit. I never made a connection to three states. I'm no chemist, but water can also exist as a plasma, so that's four states, not three.

 

What was new to me today was the Genesis thing, where is says the water was separated from the water.

 

2. Laminin was around a long time before the Jesus story. Nobody really knows if the crucifiction supposedly happened on a stake, a T shape, or the familiar cross shape. The cross shape was in use before the Christians started using it as a symbol. Besides, if you look at laminin from another orientation, it's an upside down cross, denoting Satan! Besides, the protein really looks more like a caduceus than a simple cross.

 

I see your point here.

 

3. As far as a wooden stick containing cellulose . . . I have no idea what the connection might be. Carbon might have been more appropriate to represent the idea of making water potable.

 

Just saying why is it in there that Moses puts a stick into the water to make it potable. The connection being that, if I am understanding, is these related compounds are found in reverse osmosis membranes? Moses, being in type, Jesus, a connection for humanity to God by their actions and "equipment", the wooden stick or the wooden crucifixion post/cross/T.

 

Thanks for the response.

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end3,

 

These are totally ridiculous assumptions. Let's look at the first one: water.

 

For sake of argument, let's assume water only has the three states you mentioned (we'll leave plasma out of this for now, OK florduh? ;) ). Water can only exist on one state at a time. For example, it cannot be both ice (a solid) and a gas. It can transition from one state to the next, but it certainly does not exist in ALL THREE STATES simultaneously.

 

According to orthodox or traditional Christianity, god is a trinity or a tri-unity comprised of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The concept here is that all of them together make up the one god ... they are a unity. As a result, the belief is that the Father exists along with the Son and along with the Spirit ... all at the same time. They are all said to be co-equal, co-eternal, etc. So while there are three, there are not three STATES. It is not that the Father morphs into the Son and then into the Spirit as need be. So the comparison between the phases of water and the belief in a triune god break down completely.

 

About Laminin: I like how the Christian apologists make sure they use a diagram of laminin shaped exactly like a cross. However, actual images of them don't look that much like a cross:

 

Image6.gif

 

7590751f6.jpg

 

laminin_microscope_image_2.jpg

 

But even if it formed a perfect cross, what would that prove? Should we jump to Jesus every time we see a cross shape anywhere?

 

"Look! Two of my hairs on my arms formed a cross! That must be Jesus! Hairs are designed to keep you warm. Jesus warms my heart! Therefore, this is evidence of none other than god!"

 

In any case, there is much debate about what type of cross Jesus was executed on. There were a variety of crosses. Some looked like an X, some like a T and some like the traditional cross. There was even an executioner's stake (a simple pole). So what if it turns out that Jesus was crucified on a T shaped cross? What would you do with your Laminin then?

 

The last example you gave is just ... stupid. Sorry. I cannot think of anything better to say. How much water was there? According to some theologians, there were well over 1 million people that left Egypt during the exodus. How much water would they require? And if the water was poison, how much wood would Moses need to purify the water? And where would he get enough wood out in the Sinai? Its a vast desert, you know.

 

And the analogy is bad as well. According to the Bible and to traditional Christian understanding, it wasn't the "stick" (the cross) that purified anyone. It was the BLOOD that washes whiter than snow (or so they say). So this concept falls apart completely.

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What was new to me today was the Genesis thing, where is says the water was separated from the water.

 

 

Genesis:

 

Then God said, "Let there be a dome in the middle of the waters, to separate one body of water from the other." And so it happened:

7

God made the dome, and it separated the water above the dome from the water below it.

8

God called the dome "the sky." Evening came, and morning followed--the second day.

9

Then God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered into a single basin, so that the dry land may appear." And so it happened: the water under the sky was gathered into its basin, and the dry land appeared.

10

God called the dry land "the earth," and the basin of the water he called "the sea." God saw how good it was.

 

 

So God made the sky after planet Earth was made, and since anyone writing this could see that there was water on the planet, and water (rain) that came from the sky, obviously there was water in both places. I think anyone would see it that way, even ancient writers.

 

Allow me to give you some real ammunition. Geologists hypothesize an original single land mass they call Pangea, that existed prior to the continental drift that has formed our several ever-changing continents. That real scientific hypothesis supports the verse referring to "Let the water under the sky be gathered into a single basin" because at the time of writing those verses there were several continents and resulting seas, not just one land mass and one ocean! Glory!

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End3----OK, remember when Moses put the stick in the water to make it potable for God's people (Exodus, i think)? Jesus, also through the stick(cross), made the water(God's Spirit), potable for humanity by His actions on the cross (stick), allowing the people again able to "quench their thirsts"..

 

 

I'm not the science friendliest person here, but if I follow you here; you are saying that this dominant structure is the link to Christianity? That's quite in depth. Are you trying to show evidence of Christ to the people here?; or trying to show evidence to yourself? :scratch:

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end3,

 

These are totally ridiculous assumptions. Let's look at the first one: water.

 

For sake of argument, let's assume water only has the three states you mentioned (we'll leave plasma out of this for now, OK florduh? ;) ). Water can only exist on one state at a time. For example, it cannot be both ice (a solid) and a gas. It can transition from one state to the next, but it certainly does not exist in ALL THREE STATES simultaneously.

 

According to orthodox or traditional Christianity, god is a trinity or a tri-unity comprised of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The concept here is that all of them together make up the one god ... they are a unity. As a result, the belief is that the Father exists along with the Son and along with the Spirit ... all at the same time. They are all said to be co-equal, co-eternal, etc. So while there are three, there are not three STATES. It is not that the Father morphs into the Son and then into the Spirit as need be. So the comparison between the phases of water and the belief in a triune god break down completely.

 

About Laminin: I like how the Christian apologists make sure they use a diagram of laminin shaped exactly like a cross. However, actual images of them don't look that much like a cross:

 

Image6.gif

 

7590751f6.jpg

 

laminin_microscope_image_2.jpg

 

But even if it formed a perfect cross, what would that prove? Should we jump to Jesus every time we see a cross shape anywhere?

 

"Look! Two of my hairs on my arms formed a cross! That must be Jesus! Hairs are designed to keep you warm. Jesus warms my heart! Therefore, this is evidence of none other than god!"

 

In any case, there is much debate about what type of cross Jesus was executed on. There were a variety of crosses. Some looked like an X, some like a T and some like the traditional cross. There was even an executioner's stake (a simple pole). So what if it turns out that Jesus was crucified on a T shaped cross? What would you do with your Laminin then?

 

The last example you gave is just ... stupid. Sorry. I cannot think of anything better to say. How much water was there? According to some theologians, there were well over 1 million people that left Egypt during the exodus. How much water would they require? And if the water was poison, how much wood would Moses need to purify the water? And where would he get enough wood out in the Sinai? Its a vast desert, you know.

 

And the analogy is bad as well. According to the Bible and to traditional Christian understanding, it wasn't the "stick" (the cross) that purified anyone. It was the BLOOD that washes whiter than snow (or so they say). So this concept falls apart completely.

 

 

I was understanding you to be a former minister/preacher?

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According to orthodox or traditional Christianity, god is a trinity or a tri-unity comprised of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The concept here is that all of them together make up the one god ... they are a unity. As a result, the belief is that the Father exists along with the Son and along with the Spirit ... all at the same time. They are all said to be co-equal, co-eternal, etc. So while there are three, there are not three STATES. It is not that the Father morphs into the Son and then into the Spirit as need be. So the comparison between the phases of water and the belief in a triune god break down completely.

 

Not to get away from the OP or anything; If the trinity is the three into one as you said, then Why did Jesus pray to the Father? When they asked if someone could be placed at the right hand God/ Heaven etc; Why did Jesus say that is only the Father's decision? Why would Jesus confess us to the Father?

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End3----OK, remember when Moses put the stick in the water to make it potable for God's people (Exodus, i think)? Jesus, also through the stick(cross), made the water(God's Spirit), potable for humanity by His actions on the cross (stick), allowing the people again able to "quench their thirsts"..

 

 

I'm not the science friendliest person here, but if I follow you here; you are saying that this dominant structure is the link to Christianity? That's quite in depth. Are you trying to show evidence of Christ to the people here?; or trying to show evidence to yourself? :scratch:

 

I am ok with my belief YY, just discussing for the sport.

 

 

I don't know that people are understanding the connections I am making....

 

 

1) Where is it, Mark or John, where it says (paraphrase), "that is, water" referencing The Spirit being water? Been awhile since I have looked that verse up. So let's say the Spirit is like water, as that is what the Book says. Then, looking at the properties of water, we should have an idea of the properties of the Bible God. It is my understanding as a psuedo-chemist that that is why it is called the triple point.....water, 1 molecule or 1,000,000 in phase equilibria.

 

2) I have already acknowledged not really knowing what the crucifixion post, cross, T would be, so point taken.

 

3) Where or why does the arbitrary idea about putting a stick into the water (Spirit) come from? Why didn't they say a turtle into the water? The point is, I am understanding science has brought to light the use of "wood" for water purification. Now, Moses saves the people with the water purification, a person chosen by God to deliver His people, a communicator between God and people.

 

Now, applying this to Jesus, we see another stick, the cross, and a communicator, Jesus. Both Moses and Jesus doing what God said to do (sacrifice).

 

Just my take on it all.

 

I probably will always have these private proofs of God, but anyone is willing to disagree.

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End3----OK, remember when Moses put the stick in the water to make it potable for God's people (Exodus, i think)? Jesus, also through the stick(cross), made the water(God's Spirit), potable for humanity by His actions on the cross (stick), allowing the people again able to "quench their thirsts"..

 

 

I'm not the science friendliest person here, but if I follow you here; you are saying that this dominant structure is the link to Christianity? That's quite in depth. Are you trying to show evidence of Christ to the people here?; or trying to show evidence to yourself? :scratch:

 

A Tree of Life in our fallen garden if you will....to save us.

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1) The triple point of water in the Trinity argument. The Bible talks about that God's Spirit is water . To me, as we have discussed previously, God would be like solid water, Jesus, water in the liquid form, and the Holy Spirit, water as vapor. (The ole 1+1+1= 1 joke). Well, here it is in nature, the three phases existing simultaneously as one single water molecule....I think Wiki even goes so far as to call it a "substance" rather than water...

Basically you're suggesting that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are different forms of the same God. I think the Catholic Church denies that version. The trinity is represented with fully, and three separate entities, which are all together one entity, and yet not a group or a "company" of three. It is to be considered a "mystery," to which you are not supposed to understand. It is supposed to be a contradiction.

 

Some chemical compositions have several states, like hydrogen. Just because you can find the number "3" in nature at some point, doesn't prove trinity, because if I can find the number "4" or more of something, does it prove polytheism? This is not how you prove something End3.

 

Also, the separation of the waters(forms) by God in Genesis.

 

 

[edit] Triple point of water

Main article: Water (molecule)#Triple point

 

A typical phase diagram. The dotted green line gives the anomalous behaviour of waterThe single combination of pressure and temperature at which water, ice, and water vapour can coexist in a stable equilibrium occurs at exactly 273.16 K (0.01 °C) and a partial vapour pressure of 611.73 pascals (ca. 6.1173 millibars, 0.0060373057 atm). At that point, it is possible to change all of the substance to ice, water, or vapor by making arbitrarily small changes in pressure and temperature. Note that even if the total pressure of a system is well above 611.73 pascals (e.g. normal atmospheric pressure), if the partial pressure of the water vapour is 611.73 pascals then the system can still be brought to the triple point of water. Strictly speaking, the surfaces separating the different phases should also be perfectly flat, to avoid the effects of surface tensions.

Doesn't that prove God must be 273.16 different kinds of God? Or 611.73 different kinds of gods? Or does this prove that God is under high pressure? Why doesn't it prove that God is just a cloud?

 

You see, there is most likely a reason to why they used different ideas of nature to explain God. The wind was powerful, hence, it was a power of God. The water can move rock, hence, it was a power of God. The Sun could burn and dry you out, and it was hot like fire, and fire was powerful, so fire and the sun was a power of God. And so on.

 

It's just pure accident that vapor is similar to wind, and fire is similar to heat, and earth and rocks are similar to solids, and water and similar to fluids. It doesn't prove your specific idea of God. It only proves nature to be nature. So if it proves any God, it would prove Nature to be God.

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1) The triple point of water in the Trinity argument. The Bible talks about that God's Spirit is water . To me, as we have discussed previously, God would be like solid water, Jesus, water in the liquid form, and the Holy Spirit, water as vapor. (The ole 1+1+1= 1 joke). Well, here it is in nature, the three phases existing simultaneously as one single water molecule....I think Wiki even goes so far as to call it a "substance" rather than water...

Basically you're suggesting that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are different forms of the same God. I think the Catholic Church denies that version. The trinity is represented with fully, and three separate entities, which are all together one entity, and yet not a group or a "company" of three. It is to be considered a "mystery," to which you are not supposed to understand. It is supposed to be a contradiction.

 

Some chemical compositions have several states, like hydrogen. Just because you can find the number "3" in nature at some point, doesn't prove trinity, because if I can find the number "4" or more of something, does it prove polytheism? This is not how you prove something End3.

 

Also, the separation of the waters(forms) by God in Genesis.

 

 

[edit] Triple point of water

Main article: Water (molecule)#Triple point

 

A typical phase diagram. The dotted green line gives the anomalous behaviour of waterThe single combination of pressure and temperature at which water, ice, and water vapour can coexist in a stable equilibrium occurs at exactly 273.16 K (0.01 °C) and a partial vapour pressure of 611.73 pascals (ca. 6.1173 millibars, 0.0060373057 atm). At that point, it is possible to change all of the substance to ice, water, or vapor by making arbitrarily small changes in pressure and temperature. Note that even if the total pressure of a system is well above 611.73 pascals (e.g. normal atmospheric pressure), if the partial pressure of the water vapour is 611.73 pascals then the system can still be brought to the triple point of water. Strictly speaking, the surfaces separating the different phases should also be perfectly flat, to avoid the effects of surface tensions.

Doesn't that prove God must be 273.16 different kinds of God? Or 611.73 different kinds of gods? Or does this prove that God is under high pressure? Why doesn't it prove that God is just a cloud?

 

You see, there is most likely a reason to why they used different ideas of nature to explain God. The wind was powerful, hence, it was a power of God. The water can move rock, hence, it was a power of God. The Sun could burn and dry you out, and it was hot like fire, and fire was powerful, so fire and the sun was a power of God. And so on.

 

It's just pure accident that vapor is similar to wind, and fire is similar to heat, and earth and rocks are similar to solids, and water and similar to fluids. It doesn't prove your specific idea of God. It only proves nature to be nature. So if it proves any God, it would prove Nature to be God.

 

That's fine Hans, maybe all three examples are just coincedental....

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A Tree of Life in our fallen garden if you will....to save us.

 

I personally think God being omni whatever, knew we as people would advance this far, and has placed the connects for all walks of life. Does that make sense? Not necessarily a proof, but a rendition of Himself in connection with ourselves.

 

For example. I used to work with numbers all day. Every time I would see 777; whether it be a beacon, change, etc; I would think about God. Of course, a simple matter as that applied to when I was simple minded in God. As we progress, it gets more complex. That's why I think we have so many extremist Christian groups out there. Mary being seen on buildings, or a piece of toast.

 

In time, personally, I have come to the conclusion that in part people can become out of context with others, yet in perfect sync with themselves. That's why I asked the questions.

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End3,

 

Is God immutable?

 

I would tend to believe so.

Which makes it so hard to see God as three different changing states.

 

Is frozen water also liquid and vaporized at the same time? Isn't it so that water is either frozen, liquid, or vaporized? Would that apply to God as well? Today God is the Holy Spirit, and when you pray to Jesus, the HS will answer: "Sorry buddy, but Jesus won't answer today, because today God is me, the Holy Spirit, but tomorrow I will go back to water and become Jesus again." Quite silly, right?

 

So God is, according to the idea of trinity, all three at the same time. It's like having a glass of water which is fully frozen solid, fully liquid, and fully vaporized, all at the same time. Not going from one state to the other, but co-exist as all states simultaneous. And water isn't like that.

 

It's all about finding symbols in nature, and making symbols in religion to demonstrate life and nature.

 

A sea-star got five arms, just like the pentagram. Does the existence of a five-armed-creature in nature somehow give us the idea that satanism is a viable belief?

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Is frozen water also liquid and vaporized at the same time? Isn't it so that water is either frozen, liquid, or vaporized? Would that apply to God as well? Today God is the Holy Spirit, and when you pray to Jesus, the HS will answer: "Sorry buddy, but Jesus won't answer today, because today God is me, the Holy Spirit, but tomorrow I will go back to water and become Jesus again." Quite silly, right?

 

I see your point, but that is not the way I see it.....water demonstrates properties to be in phase together but also can exist in phase separation....so I would think it is possible for a phase to be present with us and a phase(s) away at the same time. By the way L4A, I am not much into orthodoxy, as you might imagine :HaHa:

 

So God is, according to the idea of trinity, all three at the same time. It's like having a glass of water which is fully frozen solid, fully liquid, and fully vaporized, all at the same time. Not going from one state to the other, but co-exist as all states simultaneous. And water isn't like that.

 

At the triple point it is....

 

 

 

A sea-star got five arms, just like the pentagram. Does the existence of a five-armed-creature in nature somehow give us the idea that satanism is a viable belief?

 

Yeah, the sea is the conglomeration of the "worlds" water......worldly, so perhaps the starfish finds living there ok an in sync with "the debil"

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Let me try again..

 

Which makes it so hard to see God as three different changing states.

 

Is frozen water also liquid and vaporized at the same time? Isn't it so that water is either frozen, liquid, or vaporized?

 

I think you are right, it is hard for us to imagine, but I am understanding it possible..

 

Would that apply to God as well? Today God is the Holy Spirit, and when you pray to Jesus, the HS will answer: "Sorry buddy, but Jesus won't answer today, because today God is me, the Holy Spirit, but tomorrow I will go back to water and become Jesus again." Quite silly, right?

 

No, there can be ice in the refrigerator, water in my glass, and vapor in the room...

 

So God is, according to the idea of trinity, all three at the same time. It's like having a glass of water which is fully frozen solid, fully liquid, and fully vaporized, all at the same time. Not going from one state to the other, but co-exist as all states simultaneous. And water isn't like that.

 

Not according to L4A, but yes, I think that is what the triple point demonstrates.

 

 

But you are right in a sense....it is a theoretical point, IMO, due to the limitations of changing very, very, small temps and pressures. Now, we are asked by science to have faith in this point as apparently physical things are calibrated on this knowledge.

 

So where do we go from here brother?

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No, there can be ice in the refrigerator, water in my glass, and vapor in the room...

So, all water would be God then? Regardless of which state it is in?

 

What about the other 20+ substances which have triple points? Does argon, helium, methane, etc, also represent God?

 

Not according to L4A, but yes, I think that is what the triple point demonstrates.

Ok.

 

But you are right in a sense....it is a theoretical point, IMO, due to the limitations of changing very, very, small temps and pressures. Now, we are asked by science to have faith in this point as apparently physical things are calibrated on this knowledge.

 

So where do we go from here brother?

Well, since there are other substances which got triple points as well, and that there are transitory states between gas and plasma, and there are even more phases when you count the quantum and exotic states of matter, I'm not sure if this really proves anything about the existence of God... but... I do however see the idea of a "3-in-1" idea to work to some extent. :) So, I guess we can meet half-way on this matter? In other words, it doesn't prove God per se, but it gives a good argument to a trinity idea as possible. Right? Handshake?

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No, there can be ice in the refrigerator, water in my glass, and vapor in the room...

So, all water would be God then? Regardless of which state it is in?

 

What about the other 20+ substances which have triple points? Does argon, helium, methane, etc, also represent God?

 

Not according to L4A, but yes, I think that is what the triple point demonstrates.

Ok.

 

But you are right in a sense....it is a theoretical point, IMO, due to the limitations of changing very, very, small temps and pressures. Now, we are asked by science to have faith in this point as apparently physical things are calibrated on this knowledge.

 

So where do we go from here brother?

Well, since there are other substances which got triple points as well, and that there are transitory states between gas and plasma, and there are even more phases when you count the quantum and exotic states of matter, I'm not sure if this really proves anything about the existence of God... but... I do however see the idea of a "3-in-1" idea to work to some extent. :) So, I guess we can meet half-way on this matter? In other words, it doesn't prove God per se, but it gives a good argument to a trinity idea as possible. Right? Handshake?

 

fair enough...raises glass for another shot of cold beer.

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