Jump to content

Can You Prove It?


PandaPirate
 Share

Recommended Posts

I've probably watched Contact a thousand times. I really enjoyed that movie and also enjoy books written by Sagan. (Currently reading Shadows of Forgotten Anscestors which is EXCELLENT)

 

Anyway, in the movie, the character of Ellie Arroway is asked by Father Joss, "Did you love your Father?" To which she responds, "Yes!" At which point he says, "Prove it."

 

That one always threw me.

 

It seems there are some things you just can't prove that are true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've probably watched Contact a thousand times. I really enjoyed that movie and also enjoy books written by Sagan. (Currently reading Shadows of Forgotten Anscestors which is EXCELLENT)

 

Anyway, in the movie, the character of Ellie Arroway is asked by Father Joss, "Did you love your Father?" To which she responds, "Yes!" At which point he says, "Prove it."

 

That one always threw me.

 

It seems there are some things you just can't prove that are true.

 

 

There are ways how you can show love towards one another - although it is a diffrerent level of love given. I may say I love my dad I prove that by calling him every day. And then I can say I love my mom because I don't call her every day. I call him because he wants me to, she doesn't. So to give them what they want I try my best. But what level of love - I figure love is like pain. what is the level of pain. someone with a bruised toe may feel the same level of pain as someone with an arm that just got lopped off by a hatchet. If the guy with the lopped off arm had never had a stubbed toe, and the guy with the stubbed tow hasn't ever had his arm lopped off - well then they well never know which on will feel worse until they both go through the same situations. and even then, they may think the both hurt equally the same. This also gos along with grief. I know what people mean when they say - "you don't know what it's like to lose a ---Relative, friend, lover, whatever. And they are right - even if I had - the relationship I had with my ---Relative, friend, lover was a different relationship than what they had.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Christians tell us how the evil murderous god in the OT really loved us because he had his son die for us. But it wasn't anything more than a stunt because Jesus just went to visit dad for a few days then come back as though nothing had happened.

 

We should have made god prove his love by letting Jesus die for all eternity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest TheTruthHurts
Better yet he should have proved his love for us by making Jesus go to hell for all eternity. That would have been a real sacrifice.

He could have just cancelled Hell. That would have been simpler and nicer for everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

God's love for a person would be proven by God actually talking to that person, explaining things, and even doing things together with that person. In other words, if every human being had a personal and direct experience of God, then God would prove his/her/its concern and love for every person. To use other human beings as proxies or mediators only show that he/she/it isn't directly concerned about the individual. Think about this: would I ask the neighbor to talk to my kid when my kid has done something wrong or when I want to tell him/her my love?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've probably watched Contact a thousand times. I really enjoyed that movie and also enjoy books written by Sagan. (Currently reading Shadows of Forgotten Anscestors which is EXCELLENT)

 

Anyway, in the movie, the character of Ellie Arroway is asked by Father Joss, "Did you love your Father?" To which she responds, "Yes!" At which point he says, "Prove it."

 

That one always threw me.

 

It seems there are some things you just can't prove that are true.

 

I don't know that "true" becomes evident until it is self evident.

 

Can I get that published in Readers Digest, quoteable quotes????

 

Yoos a bum END! A dirty bum!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry if I harp on this too much... If Yahweh truly loved man, he wouldn't have put the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden and tell them not to eat from it, and wouldn't have let the serpent(Satan), tempt them further.

 

Also, why couldn't Yahweh just forgive Adam and Eve? He's God right? If Yahweh is as much "all that" as the Jews, Christians and Muslims say, then there would have been no need for any of the suffering that followed the Fall of Man, if Yahweh had been big enough of a deity to just forgive the first two humans.

 

I'm sorry if I harp on this too much, but The Fall story is the linchpin for both Judaism and Christianity(dunno about Islam) and once you point out it's nonsense and pull it loose, they have nothing to stand on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

God's love for a person would be proven by God actually talking to that person, explaining things, and even doing things together with that person.

 

If He had direct visitation with His 'people' that was as involved as the above; wouldn't that cancel out the Bible altogether; making Him more unknown, than even known? Wouldn't that cancel Jesus out as well? The spirit of the anti-Christ wouldn't exist either.

 

When you say the above, Do you mean in an absolute continual relationship; or just a one time encounter?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If He had direct visitation with His 'people' that was as involved as the above; wouldn't that cancel out the Bible altogether; making Him more unknown, than even known? Wouldn't that cancel Jesus out as well? The spirit of the anti-Christ wouldn't exist either.

 

When you say the above, Do you mean in an absolute continual relationship; or just a one time encounter?

Continuous relationship, to such a degree that the person would know for sure it was God. Imagine a person who is lacking faith, and ask God to talk to him or just show himself, but God doesn't answer. Is that a relationship?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Continuous relationship, to such a degree that the person would know for sure it was God. Imagine a person who is lacking faith, and ask God to talk to him or just show himself, but God doesn't answer. Is that a relationship?

 

I see that more of a sign. God of Israel, has been a sign to whoever He decided to show himself too since it's origin. Why did God give people priests, such as Aaron, Levites, pastors etc? To speak to the people in need. God always seemed to touch base with those in shock, as if they weren't even looking for Him. Moses, Jacob. He intervened, and always wanted that person to do something great for His purpose on earth. I mean, Biblically at least. That seemed to be the flow. Jesus, John the Baptist. Elijah in the cave. Jonah, going to Nineveh. Abraham, Lot. All had a certain purpose. Then, you have doubting Thomas. It was just for him. Special guy. Paul. All these people had a God purpose.

 

Jesus said there would be no more signs, except that of Jonah.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesus said there would be no more signs, except that of Jonah.

And that is good? It's a good thing that God doesn't want to use personal interaction with humans to prove his existence? If God doesn't, then would it follow that he doesn't care or it is not of the importance Christians make it to be? If God really, really, really wanted to be known by everyone, it would be really easy for him, but since he doesn't, his "good" plan must be to have 2/3rds of the world lost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesus said there would be no more signs, except that of Jonah.

And that is good? It's a good thing that God doesn't want to use personal interaction with humans to prove his existence? If God doesn't, then would it follow that he doesn't care or it is not of the importance Christians make it to be? If God really, really, really wanted to be known by everyone, it would be really easy for him, but since he doesn't, his "good" plan must be to have 2/3rds of the world lost.

 

I want to start a topic on reason. I have been thinking about it lately. The different kinds of reasoning. I have simple reasoning. I wanted to look into it first though, to see if its studied anywhere else...Moving on..

 

2/3rds of the world is alot of people Hans. What is the distinguishing factor of the other 1/3? Why don't they believe in the God of Israel? Environment, heritage religiously, lack of resources, or are they just smarter and more enlightened that the 2/3rds?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there is a hell, then that is proof that God does not love humanity. It's also goes to show that God isn't worth worshipping.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesus said there would be no more signs, except that of Jonah.

 

If the events fortold in Revelations started happening, wouldn't that be a sign?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2/3rds of the world is alot of people Hans. What is the distinguishing factor of the other 1/3? Why don't they believe in the God of Israel? Environment, heritage religiously, lack of resources, or are they just smarter and more enlightened that the 2/3rds?

If it is by which God will judge people to eternal bliss or eternal torture, then it's nothing but luck (or un-luck). Being born in the wrong place, at the wrong time... does that double negative then make it right anyway? :scratch:

 

I don't think it's because of intelligence. I think it's more of chance that I ended up on this side of the fence, and you on the other. Different experiences, and exposure to different ideas, made us different in thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesus said there would be no more signs, except that of Jonah.

 

If the events fortold in Revelations started happening, wouldn't that be a sign?

 

Yeah, it would be a type of sign, but I think today it would just be disregarded by most in the unbelieving realm as just something else. Which, when Jesus said that, in essence, He was 'the kingdom of God at hand' and I think He was implying that as the last signs of that manner to us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it is by which God will judge people to eternal bliss or eternal torture, then it's nothing but luck (or un-luck). Being born in the wrong place, at the wrong time... does that double negative then make it right anyway? :scratch:

 

I don't think it's because of intelligence. I think it's more of chance that I ended up on this side of the fence, and you on the other. Different experiences, and exposure to different ideas, made us different in thought.

 

Do you think this talks about the Muslims?

 

 

Micah 4:2

2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

(KJV)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you think this talks about the Muslims?

 

Micah 4:2

2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

(KJV)

Eh? I'm not sure I understand...

 

Do you mean, do I think Micah talks about the Muslims? Nope. Since Micah was written a very long time before Mohammad was born.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesus said there would be no more signs, except that of Jonah.

 

If the events fortold in Revelations started happening, wouldn't that be a sign?

 

Yeah, it would be a type of sign, but I think today it would just be disregarded by most in the unbelieving realm as just something else. Which, when Jesus said that, in essence, He was 'the kingdom of God at hand' and I think He was implying that as the last signs of that manner to us.

 

So in other words, it would be no different than the signs of the olden days. There were doubters around then who doubted Jesus and his miracles. With a god that only came down to converse with only a select handfull of people in one small region of the earth, i wouldn't even go so far as to call it a sign. Kind of like the numerous cult leaders of today who have claimed to have had a personal revelation from god. If i was god and i was wanting people to avoid burning in hell for all eternity, i believe i could do better in making my presence known.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Eliot Ness
Christians tell us how the evil murderous god in the OT really loved us because he had his son die for us. But it wasn't anything more than a stunt because Jesus just went to visit dad for a few days then come back as though nothing had happened.

 

We should have made god prove his love by letting Jesus die for all eternity.

 

Jesus' repeated prayers, asking not to endure the wrath of God, make it more than just a 'stunt.' (Matthew 26)

 

He began to be sorrowful and troubled. Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "
My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me
. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

 

Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter. "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."

 

He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father,
if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done
."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you think this talks about the Muslims?

 

Micah 4:2

2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

(KJV)

Eh? I'm not sure I understand...

 

Do you mean, do I think Micah talks about the Muslims? Nope. Since Micah was written a very long time before Mohammad was born.

 

It was God speaking to Micah.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If i was god and i was wanting people to avoid burning in hell for all eternity, i believe i could do better in making my presence known.

 

I have heard this alot lately. If God is God why can't He just do this or that. Because, he's not a waiter/waitress. You want grape, or strawberry. How could God have made Himself known better to the world; when 2/3rds of the entire Earth believe in Him as God?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest sinderella60
If i was god and i was wanting people to avoid burning in hell for all eternity, i believe i could do better in making my presence known.

 

I have heard this alot lately. If God is God why can't He just do this or that. Because, he's not a waiter/waitress. You want grape, or strawberry. How could God have made Himself known better to the world; when 2/3rds of the entire Earth believe in Him as God?

 

 

let's break this down. 2/3 of the earth believe in him as god. 1. when you refer to "him" which him is it? the muslin him, the jewish him, the catholic him etc, because they all have their own "him" 2. i don't think they necessarily believe, i think they are afraid NOT to believe. there is a difference. :fdevil:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

let's break this down. 2/3 of the earth believe in him as god. 1. when you refer to "him" which him is it? the muslin him, the jewish him, the catholic him etc, because they all have their own "him" 2. i don't think they necessarily believe, i think they are afraid NOT to believe. there is a difference. :fdevil:

 

They all have the same Him. Whether it's Jesus, Mohammad, or 'still waiting'. The base is the same, the God of Israel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.