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The Horrible Implication Of Their Doctrine.


nightflight
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See the Christian couple fawning over their new baby. They are so happy and have big plans for their new arrival. To start with, they will take their new infant to church this Sunday to be dedicated to the Lord, to promise God that they will raise their child in the Faith. Many happy feelings here. But are these happy feelings logically warranted?

 

Most Christians will agree that God is omniscient, that is, he knows everything, including the future. As the scriptures say, "He knows the end from the beginning." Therefore, God knows who will and who will not accept salvation. This is horrifying if you follow these things to their logical ends. See, God is also looking upon the baby mentioned above. But he knows that this particular child won't accept his salvation and will instead spend eternity in hell. What a sad situation this is! The parents love and have great plans for their new child, but God knows that in the end this baby will someday wind up in eternal torment.

 

Do Christians ever contemplate this? Or do they push it out of their minds? Is this thought intolerable?

 

Christian lurkers, answer me!

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That's not the half of it. Xian parents are gambling because they don't know the outcome. God is not. He does. Christians refer to him as father. What "good and loving" father would ever opt to have a child if it destined for eternal punishment? The free choice argument doesn't work here. God knows the choice before it was made and it is he who chooses to go ahead with allowing the conception to occur.

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I don't think they really think it through. I remember over on Tentmaker.Org, they had a testimony of one man who got a vasectomy, to be absolutely sure he didn't have children if there was even the tiniest chance they wouldn't get saved and go to hell when they died. I had similar feelings, though I never got the vasectomy. (I probably need to though, being a pop isn't my thing.) What's really nasty is that some sects teach if you don't have children you'll go to hell.(Bastards!)

 

More than anything, this is what made me deconvert. I still find myself tempted to go back, to believe that when I die, I'll go to "heaven" and live forever, but then I remind myself of the nature of the christian god , that were he to exist, he would be the ultimate fiend for creating an eternal hell, and heaven would be no better, because christians would be forever in the presence of the infamous tyrant that would create such a horror.

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The parents love and have great plans for their new child, but God knows that in the end this baby will someday wind up in eternal torment.

The Greek uses words that convey a word more along the lines of "to bring to perfection" rather than eternity. It implies a set amount of time. And it also has the idea of "roasting" instead of a "to torment by fire" or the images one normally has when they think of "hell." Now, "god" in Exodus was often known to enjoy the "sweet smell" of the sacrifices. He rather enjoyed it. It was analogous to feeding him.

 

What we have here then is that "god" is roasting people to perfection so he can consume them. :eek:

 

 

 

 

Nah. I'm just messing around.

 

mwc

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If anything has sent me into the throes of freethought is the fact that miscarriages occur. What about children that were never brought to term loss due to a malfunction in the female's anatomy or some kind of unexplained reason? Do they go to hell or do they go to heaven? Allowing a child not to be brought to full term is a fucking hell in and of itself, therefore eternal punishment means nothing to me personally. As far as sending children to hell, it almost as unforgivable as having a child getting a rare genetic condition, cancer or HIV. If God knew about this beforehand, then he is guilty of negligence in my opinion. Every child that is aborted, every child that gets a genetic defect, every child that gets saddled with the sins of their parents and grandparents and great-grandparetns, that is a single count of negligence on the part of every child ever conceived.

 

I don't hate to say it, but the God of the Bible is a fucking bastard.

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See the Christian couple fawning over their new baby. They are so happy and have big plans for their new arrival. To start with, they will take their new infant to church this Sunday to be dedicated to the Lord, to promise God that they will raise their child in the Faith. Many happy feelings here. But are these happy feelings logically warranted?

 

Most Christians will agree that God is omniscient, that is, he knows everything, including the future. As the scriptures say, "He knows the end from the beginning." Therefore, God knows who will and who will not accept salvation. This is horrifying if you follow these things to their logical ends. See, God is also looking upon the baby mentioned above. But he knows that this particular child won't accept his salvation and will instead spend eternity in hell. What a sad situation this is! The parents love and have great plans for their new child, but God knows that in the end this baby will someday wind up in eternal torment.

 

Do Christians ever contemplate this? Or do they push it out of their minds? Is this thought intolerable?

 

Christian lurkers, answer me!

 

What would be the point of creating humanity where everyone ends up in Heaven as a result not of their own doing. Here, at Ex-C, the epitome of "I can do it myselfness" now asking why doesn't God take everyone? You enjoy and strive in the individual freedom and the wonderful fullfillment thereof, yet don't give the credit to the design?

 

I will opt out this evening as I am having a hard time retaining my calm.

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What would be the point of creating humanity where everyone ends up in Heaven as a result not of their own doing.

 

The same goes for the inverse; why create humanity when most will go to Hell without meaning to?

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What would be the point of creating humanity where everyone ends up in Heaven as a result not of their own doing. Here, at Ex-C, the epitome of "I can do it myselfness" now asking why doesn't God take everyone?

 

No, dipshit, its not about your God "taking everyone", its about your fucking, abusive doctrine of eternal torment. Those of us with a modicum of human feeling are rightly repulsed by that teaching and are calling your ilk out on it.

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What would be the point of creating humanity where everyone ends up in Heaven as a result not of their own doing. Here, at Ex-C, the epitome of "I can do it myselfness" now asking why doesn't God take everyone? You enjoy and strive in the individual freedom and the wonderful fullfillment thereof, yet don't give the credit to the design?

 

I will opt out this evening as I am having a hard time retaining my calm.

 

You mean to say that you honestly do not realize that the exact same thing can be said to you in terms of your rejection of other religions ?

 

If You died today, and found yourself standing before Allah and Muhammad for judgment, and they asked you why you decided to reject the teachings of the Q'ran and instead do your own thing by following the Bible, what would your response to their question be before you are cast into the pit of Muslim hell ? Or how about being reincarnated as a gnat for not abiding by the bhagavad gita as you stand before Krishna ?

 

Protip: Belief is not a choice.

 

 

IMO I think most Christians in general have a psuedo understanding that Hell as a punishment for guessing the wrong religion isn't exactly a justified system to have. Or maybe I would just like to think that so that my faith in humanity may be higher. It would be quite sad if the majority of Christians are indeed merrily skipping along the sidewalk of life while clutching their asscheeks in gleeful anticipation of the day where everyone but those who think like them will be burning for all eternity.

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End, honestly, anyone with a belief in a higher power should be absolutely enraged by the doctrine of hell. It paints the idea of a supreme being, as a thuggish, psychopathic bully, who moreover despite being able to create or do anything, is so insecure, it has to create beings to worship it, and threaten them with death and or eternal torture if they don't obey.

 

To anyone with a concept of the divine, the idea of a vengeful, jealous God who metes out terrible pain if it's ego is not

satisfied by being worshipped out of fear is ABSOLUTELY BLASPHEMOUS!

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If You died today, and found yourself standing before Allah and Muhammad for judgment, and they asked you why you decided to reject the teachings of the Q'ran and instead do your own thing by following the Bible, what would your response to their question be before you are cast into the pit of Muslim hell ?

I know the xian answer to this:

"Um, well, I don't think this would actually happen but if it did I guess I would just go to Muslim hell."

 

mwc

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What would be the point of creating humanity where everyone ends up in Heaven as a result not of their own doing.

 

The same goes for the inverse; why create humanity when most will go to Hell without meaning to?

 

 

Doc,

Maybe I am not understanding, but why would you not assume that God would not be a fair judge.

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What would be the point of creating humanity where everyone ends up in Heaven as a result not of their own doing.

 

The same goes for the inverse; why create humanity when most will go to Hell without meaning to?

 

 

Doc,

Maybe I am not understanding, but why would you not assume that God would not be a fair judge.

 

Because God apparently plays favorites. It says so in the Bible. God liked the Israelites more than the Canaanites. Jesus liked the Judeans more than the Samaritans. Or am I wrong about that? If so, show me the text that justifies your opinion.

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What would be the point of creating humanity where everyone ends up in Heaven as a result not of their own doing.

 

The same goes for the inverse; why create humanity when most will go to Hell without meaning to?

 

 

Doc,

Maybe I am not understanding, but why would you not assume that God would not be a fair judge.

 

Because God apparently plays favorites. It says so in the Bible. God liked the Israelites more than the Canaanites. Jesus liked the Judeans more than the Samaritans. Or am I wrong about that? If so, show me the text that justifies your opinion.

 

What I am trying to express is the OP seemed to imply that free will is not an option, and that the created will go to hell as that is how God has provided. It would be my humble opinion that God knows who will end up there, but gives us the opportunity to overcome and be free of the filth of this world on our own , (that option provided for by Jesus), as that in itself is the success and joy, etc. of life.

 

I am afraid some here are like the people that complained after the 911 tragedy.....STOP THE TERRORISTS! and then when Bush did.... OH YOU SHITTY MAN! . I don't get it folks.

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Are you just incapable of answering a question? I asked you about God playing favorites because the Bible says that God has a chosen people and that God gave land to his chosen people--land that was occupied by people who weren't favored. (See Gen. 12:1 to 12:7).

 

So doesn't this show that God won't be a fair judge? You can't answer that question, can you?

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Doc,

Maybe I am not understanding, but why would you not assume that God would not be a fair judge.

 

See above. This is what you said. Then I explained why it's reasonable to believe that God would not be a fair judge based on the Biblical text.

 

Just like LNC you're trying your best to escape from the plain language of the Bible with references to everything but the Bible. You're going on about the nature of truth, free will, and who knows what else. But I'm here to refocus you. What does the text say? The text says that God has a "chosen people." So that's a pretty good reason to believe that God plays favorites.

 

If I went before a court, and in the case before mine, the judge said "I rule for the defendant because I like him," I'd be pretty nervous about the impartiality of the judge.

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Doc,

Maybe I am not understanding, but why would you not assume that God would not be a fair judge.

 

See above. This is what you said. Then I explained why it's reasonable to believe that God would not be a fair judge based on the Biblical text.

 

Just like LNC you're trying your best to escape from the plain language of the Bible with references to everything but the Bible. You're going on about the nature of truth, free will, and who knows what else. But I'm here to refocus you. What does the text say? The text says that God has a "chosen people." So that's a pretty good reason to believe that God plays favorites.

 

If I went before a court, and in the case before mine, the judge said "I rule for the defendant because I like him," I'd be pretty nervous about the impartiality of the judge.

 

I take it you have never read about Christ?

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Doc,

Maybe I am not understanding, but why would you not assume that God would not be a fair judge.

 

See above. This is what you said. Then I explained why it's reasonable to believe that God would not be a fair judge based on the Biblical text.

 

Just like LNC you're trying your best to escape from the plain language of the Bible with references to everything but the Bible. You're going on about the nature of truth, free will, and who knows what else. But I'm here to refocus you. What does the text say? The text says that God has a "chosen people." So that's a pretty good reason to believe that God plays favorites.

 

If I went before a court, and in the case before mine, the judge said "I rule for the defendant because I like him," I'd be pretty nervous about the impartiality of the judge.

 

I take it you have never read about Christ?

 

Admit it, you are LNC. Either that or all apologists are incapable of answering straight questions. Notice that you just asked me a question.

 

Look, if you want to defend your faith that's cool. I don't care. I have nothing against Christianity. I think of myself as a post-Christian. I like Jesus, I admire him despite his flaws.

 

But you're doing a terrible disservice to thinking Christians with your silly question-dodging. I asked you for an explanation of where in the Bible it says that God doesn't play favorites and how these passages relate to instances where it says that God does play favorites. See Deuteronomy 14:2.

 

If you don't know, just say "I don't know." But don't play games and answer questions with questions.

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Doc,

Maybe I am not understanding, but why would you not assume that God would not be a fair judge.

 

See above. This is what you said. Then I explained why it's reasonable to believe that God would not be a fair judge based on the Biblical text.

 

Just like LNC you're trying your best to escape from the plain language of the Bible with references to everything but the Bible. You're going on about the nature of truth, free will, and who knows what else. But I'm here to refocus you. What does the text say? The text says that God has a "chosen people." So that's a pretty good reason to believe that God plays favorites.

 

If I went before a court, and in the case before mine, the judge said "I rule for the defendant because I like him," I'd be pretty nervous about the impartiality of the judge.

 

I take it you have never read about Christ?

 

Admit it, you are LNC. Either that or all apologists are incapable of answering straight questions. Notice that you just asked me a question.

 

Look, if you want to defend your faith that's cool. I don't care. I have nothing against Christianity. I think of myself as a post-Christian. I like Jesus, I admire him despite his flaws.

 

But you're doing a terrible disservice to thinking Christians with your silly question-dodging. I asked you for an explanation of where in the Bible it says that God doesn't play favorites and how these passages relate to instances where it says that God does play favorites. See Deuteronomy 14:2.

 

If you don't know, just say "I don't know." But don't play games and answer questions with questions.

 

Gheez guy, do you want me to explain the entire difference between the old and renewed covenants? It's not a straighforward concept to many, but I think if you are arguing the point you are, then you would first have to consider the OT vs Christ.....seriously.

 

Do you think that the point of Christ was to deny entry?

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Doc,

Maybe I am not understanding, but why would you not assume that God would not be a fair judge.

 

See above. This is what you said. Then I explained why it's reasonable to believe that God would not be a fair judge based on the Biblical text.

 

Just like LNC you're trying your best to escape from the plain language of the Bible with references to everything but the Bible. You're going on about the nature of truth, free will, and who knows what else. But I'm here to refocus you. What does the text say? The text says that God has a "chosen people." So that's a pretty good reason to believe that God plays favorites.

 

If I went before a court, and in the case before mine, the judge said "I rule for the defendant because I like him," I'd be pretty nervous about the impartiality of the judge.

 

I take it you have never read about Christ?

 

Admit it, you are LNC. Either that or all apologists are incapable of answering straight questions. Notice that you just asked me a question.

 

Look, if you want to defend your faith that's cool. I don't care. I have nothing against Christianity. I think of myself as a post-Christian. I like Jesus, I admire him despite his flaws.

 

But you're doing a terrible disservice to thinking Christians with your silly question-dodging. I asked you for an explanation of where in the Bible it says that God doesn't play favorites and how these passages relate to instances where it says that God does play favorites. See Deuteronomy 14:2.

 

If you don't know, just say "I don't know." But don't play games and answer questions with questions.

 

Gheez guy, do you want me to explain the entire difference between the old and renewed covenants? It's not a straighforward concept to many, but I think if you are arguing the point you are, then you would first have to consider the OT vs Christ.....seriously.

 

Do you think that the point of Christ was to deny entry?

 

I want you to answer a simple question: Did God have a favored people or not?

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Doc,

Maybe I am not understanding, but why would you not assume that God would not be a fair judge.

 

See above. This is what you said. Then I explained why it's reasonable to believe that God would not be a fair judge based on the Biblical text.

 

Just like LNC you're trying your best to escape from the plain language of the Bible with references to everything but the Bible. You're going on about the nature of truth, free will, and who knows what else. But I'm here to refocus you. What does the text say? The text says that God has a "chosen people." So that's a pretty good reason to believe that God plays favorites.

 

If I went before a court, and in the case before mine, the judge said "I rule for the defendant because I like him," I'd be pretty nervous about the impartiality of the judge.

 

I take it you have never read about Christ?

 

Admit it, you are LNC. Either that or all apologists are incapable of answering straight questions. Notice that you just asked me a question.

 

Look, if you want to defend your faith that's cool. I don't care. I have nothing against Christianity. I think of myself as a post-Christian. I like Jesus, I admire him despite his flaws.

 

But you're doing a terrible disservice to thinking Christians with your silly question-dodging. I asked you for an explanation of where in the Bible it says that God doesn't play favorites and how these passages relate to instances where it says that God does play favorites. See Deuteronomy 14:2.

 

If you don't know, just say "I don't know." But don't play games and answer questions with questions.

 

Gheez guy, do you want me to explain the entire difference between the old and renewed covenants? It's not a straighforward concept to many, but I think if you are arguing the point you are, then you would first have to consider the OT vs Christ.....seriously.

 

Do you think that the point of Christ was to deny entry?

 

I want you to answer a simple question: Did God have a favored people or not?

 

Jesus is for all. God is immutable. Please connect the dots brother.

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