nightflight Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Are these two doctrines compatible, free will and God's justice? See, Christianity teaches us that people have free wills, to sin or not to sin. They also teach that God is just in condemning sinners to an eternity in hell for their sin. But is this really just? All Christians will agree that all people will sin, eventually. Here's the problem though; if ALL people will sin, how can their really be "free will"? I mean, what are the odds that ALL humans will "choose" to sin if all have free will? Seems like something else is at work here, perhaps a propensity to sin? If so, that opens a whole new can of worms. I mean how can God be just for condemning people to an eternity in hell for doing the thing that they can't help but to do? Strange justice if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafutopia Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 ITA. Much to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Are these two doctrines compatible, free will and God's justice? They aren't compatible. See, Christianity teaches us that people have free wills, to sin or not to sin. They also teach that God is just in condemning sinners to an eternity in hell for their sin. But is this really just? All Christians will agree that all people will sin, eventually. Here's the problem though; if ALL people will sin, how can their really be "free will"? You're right, there can't be any "freewill". I mean, what are the odds that ALL humans will "choose" to sin if all have free will? Seems like something else is at work here, perhaps a propensity to sin? If so, that opens a whole new can of worms. I mean how can God be just for condemning people to an eternity in hell for doing the thing that they can't help but to do? Strange justice if you ask me. When I became a born again fundie-gelical, I was taught that humans are born with the propensity to sin. God provides the escape plan to remedy our position. We can choose to accept it, but in reality, we have no freedom to reject it. We are born separated from god, so we are in sin without any choice or alternative to our sinfulness. Then god offers to rescue us. ..and being a sinful little wretch, I fell for it hook, line, and sinker! DAMN!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Are these two doctrines compatible, free will and God's justice? See, Christianity teaches us that people have free wills, to sin or not to sin. They also teach that God is just in condemning sinners to an eternity in hell for their sin. But is this really just? I found the "free will" claim to be one of the most dishonest doctrines that Christians try to promote. It misuses the word "free" and the Bible undermines claims about free will in many places. The Bible claims God predestines the paths of at least some people, so free will is a mirage, something that preachers can foist on the faithful to make them feel responsible for what turns out to be a rigged game. Apart from these problems, if the sin of one man, namely Adam, contaminated humanity then some sin is present at birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 There's no Free will in the dogma, Their version of "Free will" is tantamount to... If a robber walks in and puts a gun to your head and says Give me all your money and jewels. Sure you have "Free will" You can either get your brains blown out, or hand over the stuff. Handing over the money and jewels isn't done so at free will,It's a form of coercion. Hell is the proverbial gun to the head, with the fear of burning forever in the lake of fire, unbearable torture and the like. Xtians like to call this coercion love and grace, which of course it's not. Anyone who escapes the cult, can see it for what it is, unfortunately the effects of the guilt, self hating and so forth take a very long time to recover from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 :whs: :ditto: :goodpost: I am God, the benevolent dictator. I control you, I watch your every move, I give you some semblance of choice. Before you die, you have your entire life to make a decision whether or not to worship me. Worship me and go to heaven. Don't worship me and go to hell. The choice is yours, even though you really have no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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