rabbi tt Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Nietzsche said that morality is the herd instinct in the individual. I don’t know, but there might be a grain of truth to that. Absolutely. Evil is the selfish act of an individual at the expense of the herd. Just like in Dungeons and Dragons... Good is for the benefit of the group, Evil is for one's own benefit. I know, I know... "tentmaker" isn't a necessary scholarly source of information. http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-Etymo...heWordEvil.html According to the Dictionary of Word Origins by John Ayto, the original meaning of the English word "evil" has changed considerably over the last few hundred years. Not surprising. It seems theologians have had considerable influence upon shaping words to cause us to see according to their doctrines rather than what is plainly written. Mr. Ayto writes: "Evil" has gotten distinctly worse over the millenia. Originally it seems to have signified nothing more sinister than "uppity," and in the Old and Middle English period it meant simply "bad"; it is only in modern English that its connotations of "extreme moral wickedness" came to the fore. It probably comes ultimately from "upelo-", a derivative of the Indo-European base "upo-, under (source of Greek hupo, under, Sanskrit "upa", at, to, and English "up" and "over"), and so its underlying connotation is of "exceeding due limits, extremism. Its Germanic descendant was "ubilaz", source of German übel, evil as well as English evil." Evil is one of those Christianese words like "saved" or "blessed" that no one really knows what it means, we just like saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 That would be a topic of debate. Jesus chastised his followers for acting in violence at times; as far as the parable, I think thats more geared toward when Christ is suppose to return in Armageddon. Jesus acted like an ill tempered child when he drove out the mongers in the temple, he cursed a tree for not having fruit in the off-season (IIRC), and he said he came to bring swords and war, and not peace... it's a mixed message. I think that is the problem with the Bible, it is not distinctly and succinctly in one direction. The message is all over the place, and you--as the interpreter--make the Bible fit your views, instead of you conforming to the Bible. The Bible has been the foundation and argument for warfare and slavery, all the way to pacifism and universal inclusion. It is too vague and undefined to be an absolute. I will reply to this post Hans, then leave this thread alone since R.S seems to think he/she is above decent conversation. My lastly thought on the Jesus/war topic in this thread, unless a new thread is opened. The disciples/followers wanted to revolt, make their kingdom, then, during His ministry; Jesus was not there for that. You are correct, it is mixed up. But not impossible to understand; for me, Jesus is speaking in spiritual terms on one end and the physical on the other. If Jesus were speaking in the physical terms in both; why did no revolt come about during His ministry? Personally, Matt 10.34 Lk 12.51, Jesus said I bring not peace but a sword. Then goes on to explain His words saying that He is setting a dividing line between belief and family. Mark and John, omit these verses; John goes into Jesus's peace more in depth, to the world. I'm sure there are other verses somewhere that speak about the topic more, as I don't have the time to dig into it this second; thats what I take from it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I, before God and after God, always had a set common sense about war. We are free people because of war. Yes, war is made for wrong reasons. But, war is why Americans have freedom. We also protect our neighbors And the Native Americans were kicked out of their own land because of war, too. War might sometimes be inevitable, but also speaking as a pacifist here, I fail to see how this makes killing others in war a virtue to be emulated, but perhaps this is a discussion for another thread? I can't make sense of your answers, Yoyo. You say you're not a Christian but you say you believe in the Christian God.I can never make sense of Yoyo's posts either. He'll start off making a comprehensible post but then when he gets backed into a corner, he suddenly changes his position on things and I get the feeling he's making his posts purposely incomprehensible to avoid the issues, which is why I tend to either skim over his posts or just ignore him most of the time because he really makes no sense half of the time. I will reply to this post Hans, then leave this thread alone since R.S seems to think he/she is above decent conversation.How does she think she's above decent conversation? I'd say you're the one who thinks they're above decent conversation since you just ignore R.S.'s response and just instead choose to insult her for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 If Jesus were speaking in the physical terms in both; why did no revolt come about during His ministry? That's a good point. However some have argued that Jesus might be a character partly built upon one or more zealots of that time. The zealots were basically the Jewish terrorists, killing and fighting guerrilla warfare against the Roman empire. If there's any truth to that, Jesus might have been an Osama of his time, and the Gospel were just polished to not reveal his true identity or intentions. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Evil is the selfish act of an individual at the expense of the herd. This is essentially my current definition of “sin”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I, before God and after God, always had a set common sense about war. We are free people because of war. Yes, war is made for wrong reasons. But, war is why Americans have freedom. We also protect our neighbors Here I am in agreement with you, YoYo. In addition to being a practical pacifist (don't start trouble, but always keep a weapon handy in case somebody else does), I am also libertarian. I live and let live, which is why I don't go into churches and start blaspheming in front the worshippers. To hinder the rights of man when man is not threatening anybody else is both unlawful and immoral. The ethical context of the Revolutionary War is still in debate at least for me. I think we could have made peace with Britian without drawing blood, but the war was as much about self-preservation as it was about commerce. From my own stance, I was born into the common class. I would have seen the British as invaders of my home and town, threatening my loved ones and friends in the process. This is why I am more in favor of a local militia over a standing army anyday. It is more ethical to kill an hostile invading my home than it is for me to fight in an army in a foreign country and I kill a man who has the same thoughts I do right now. This may have been the underlying reasons why I was against the invasion into Iraq. I wasn't really that gung-ho about going into Afghanistan at all either. If a bully were picking on me, I would only strike back if I were touched first. To me, that is my stance about war. War is the absolute last resort and I will only fight if my life is directly threatened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbi tt Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Evil is the selfish act of an individual at the expense of the herd. This is essentially my current definition of “sin”. I think that is reasonable. Sin = evil = selfishness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbi tt Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 'Neon Genesis' date='Feb 14 2009, 12:02 PM' And the Native Americans were kicked out of their own land because of war, too. War might sometimes be inevitable, but also speaking as a pacifist here, I fail to see how this makes killing others in war a virtue to be emulated, but perhaps this is a discussion for another thread? BRAVO!!!! Native Americans... Canaanites... Celts... History is written by the victors. War is NEVER justified, except by the victors. If two Kings, Presidents or Chiefs want to fight, let them duke it out. Leave the people out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 ) I will reply to this post Hans, then leave this thread alone since R.S seems to think he/she is above decent conversation.How does she think she's above decent conversation? I'd say you're the one who thinks they're above decent conversation since you just ignore R.S.'s response and just instead choose to insult her for no reason. Thanks, Neon. In looking over the posts tonight I see that I might not have given Yoyo's posts fair treatment. However, this: We also protect our neighbors says "arrogant American" like nothing can. Yoyo, and any other American who imagines Canadians look to their neighbour to the south for protection, take a look at this. My apologies to the rest on here who are also Americans. I spent some time last night looking at national anthems of various countries. I found an on youtube with a batch of O Canada, and then a batch of Stars and Stripes. After watching the Stars and Stripes long enough I finally got it into my head that you guys can't help having been born south of the border and that you have every right to like your country, same as we Canadians are ever so "Proud to be Canadian."* I'm sure that sounds foreign to American ears but it's true. As a child I used to feel so sorry for Americans because they didn't have O Canada. They didn't have what we had in our great country Canada. When I moved into the larger world away from the horse and buggy community and found that Canadians aren't even on the map, it was quite a let-down. But as I look at my fellow Canadians, I find nobody minds in the least. We're Canadians, after all, so why would we mind not being on the map! One young prof joked in the years shortly after 9/11 (Winter 2002, I think) that if the American army showed up on our doorstep we would probably wave them over with a smile of welcome. He taught just war theory. People around here did not think the war in Afghanistan was just. I'm sure the Americans won't bomb us if we don't bomb them back. They don't want a wrecked country if they can get it otherwise; hence the secret meetings in 2006. The stupid border security is just a sham. Zeitgeist is right. *I'm not sure if it's Canadian Tire, or what company, that carries that as a slogan. That's why I always feel like I should put it in quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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