Question For Ex-c Ladies!

[gypsy79]

I've gotten this vibe from a few people that being a skeptic/agnostic/atheist/rational is such an unfeminine thing. Have any of you experienced that sort of attitude before? I've been told many times in my life that I'm "such a guy" for being more logical than emotional. Just wondering if any of you have encountered this, and if so, does it bother you? I'm new enough to this identity that I haven't really formed an opinion about this stereotype. I'm really interested in hearing any stories about being a female ex-c, if you have any.

 

Prysm, I have gotten that vibe too. When I told my husband I was agnostic, he said something to the order of, "You are the least girly girl I have ever met." Not sure why the two are related, but okay.

 

It doesn't really bother me personally because I have always been told this due to other traits/behaviors. I am not a masculine-looking girl by any stretch (okay, I'm cute, LOL!) but I have never played with dolls, never even OWNED a Barbie, wear minimal makeup and only because society forces me to wear some, drink whiskey by the gallon, play Rock Band all night, and prefer to discuss the Wall Street Journal and power-sharing in Zimbabwe over Sex and the City. Okay, I admit it. I hate Sex and the City and Private Practice and love to stare blankly at female acquaintances when they talk about these things.

 

What DOES bother me is the larger macro problem of gender-based stereotyping. There are SO many girls out there like me (obvious from this thread) but I have yet to meet ANY in real life for some reason. Is it because they are scared of being labeled non-girly? If I meet a girl who likes intellectual discussion, she also wants to go shopping and get manicures (sigh). If I meet a girl who likes to get rowdy and admits she is an atheist (just an example), she hasn't a clue about current events. I'd like a combo, please! My male friends are just as bad, including Mr. Gypsy. "What? She likes to drink all night and play Rock Band? Well, that's what we're doing! Forget stimulating conversation!" Argggghhhh.

 

Okay, I answered your question and then moved into a rant that is only semi-related. My apologies.

[Neon Genesis]

There are some awesome female atheists out there, but they don't seem to have the same rock star status as the guys do. I mean the "Four Horsemen" are all guys; you hear plenty of people vilify Dawkins, but nobody seems to attack, say, Julia Sweeney. (Although mention Madalyn Murray O'Hair and they'll have a conniption fit.)

I love Julia Sweeney. She's effing hilarious and totally pwns certain male comedians. *coughdanecookcough*

[ClaraOlive]

What DOES bother me is the larger macro problem of gender-based stereotyping. There are SO many girls out there like me (obvious from this thread) but I have yet to meet ANY in real life for some reason. Is it because they are scared of being labeled non-girly? If I meet a girl who likes intellectual discussion, she also wants to go shopping and get manicures (sigh). If I meet a girl who likes to get rowdy and admits she is an atheist (just an example), she hasn't a clue about current events. I'd like a combo, please!

 

I think maybe the problem is in being disappointing if we can't find the ONE thing (church, husband, female friend) that meets all our needs in one package.

 

I was having a discussion with some other people about the difficulty for atheists (and particularly newly deconverted ex-Christians) to find a group that replaces a church. But maybe it isn't healthy to have one thing fill all those roles. In fact, that's partially why it hurt so much to be rejected by the church- because it previously was an all-encompassing social group.

 

Of course, we all want someone to be a true friend who really understands a lot of what we're going through, but that means compromises on our behalf too. Maybe it means enjoying a manicure as a way to spend time with a friend whose conversations are always great. Just because she has some interests that you don't like, doesn't mean she's really unlike you.

[gypsy79]

Yeah, I agree ClaraOlive. I'm glad you brought that up because it's something I really need to either work on or accept about myself. I'm really time-selfish, so HATE spending time on things that are not important to me.

 

Compromise can work, though. For example, although I hate shopping because it KILLS conversation and turns into "Isn't this cute?" over and over, manicures can be a compromise because you're just sitting there and good conversation can't help but follow. Maybe next time a friend asks me if I'll go shopping, I'll just say, "Well, you know I'm a horrible shopping partner. Would ya like to get a pedicure instead?"

 

It's true that it can't be healthy for one group or person to fulfill all our needs.

[noob]

Prysm, this is an interesting question. Since I haven’t gone out of my way to announce my atheism to a lot people, I don’t think anyone has labeled me because of it. But as I pondered the question, I realized that I certainly do not fit into a box. I’ve been told that I think too much, talk too loud, swear too much, read too much, party too much, and that I am too kind-hearted, too messy, too independent, too easy going, and such a girl! I don’t think you can say many of these things are particularly feminine or unfeminine. They just are what they are.

 

I have a very geeky hobby that is predominantly male and when we have social gatherings, I rarely hang out with the women, who are mostly wives of the hobby guys. (These particular women love to talk about shopping. Ugh!) I much prefer hanging with the guys and talking trash. In fact, I frequently instigate the trashy talk!

 

On the other hand, I enjoy dressing up and looking nice, going out to nice restaurants, going to the theatre, getting massages and pedicures. I get a kick out of getting my hobby guys (I’m a little possessive, eh?) to talk about stuff that they would not normally talk about like mascara, lipstick, toe rings, toenail polish colors, etc. I figure I am helping them broaden their horizons!

 

But… I also get a kick out of doing things for myself that many people would expect a man to do. I installed my own dishwasher and range hood one New Year’s Day. They were both new, but previously installed so I did not have instructions. I just took the old ones out and installed the new ones by reversing the process. After listening to the men in my office gripe for over a year about the huge piece of ugly turquoise carpet glued to the wall of my office, last weekend I tore it down and then scraped, sanded, applied joint compound, sanded, applied Kilz, and painted it without any help. In spite of the fact that they kept telling me it could not be done without a professional, the wall looks great!

 

I guess it all boils down to - I am just a simple atheist girl with a mish mash of characteristics!!! I don’t care how people label me, I am what I am and I'm happy with it!!!!

[Jane of the Jungle]

WHAT MORE CAN I SAY

 

SIMPLY ..................

 

I LOOOOOOOVE YOU GALS

 

 

I had the time of my life reading this thread, LMAO not only because you guys has a fantastic sense of humor but also because it seems like I was reading "The story of my life" here

 

If I see all your personalities it seems like I am looking into a mirror and yap I also neva neva found a female friend to match. Dono why, but always manage to find someone who is

sensitive, whereto after a visit with them I feel drained, cause I had to keep the conversation running for almost the entire time and also listening to stories about the terrible failure of a cake

6 years ago, shopping fun or troubles their kids have at ballet school KILLER!!!! when I would much rather be talking about interesting stuff I saw on Discovery or Nat Geo, new inventions,

watching Top Gear, laughing my a$$ off at some of the crazy stuff the presenters came up with, that kinda thing...... Nah, I still didnt find any galfriends who share the same interests and

if I do find one, it was mostly lesbian, who took off when realized I am not interested in a love afair but only friendship.

 

I live in South Africa and having a lot of BBQ's here and sadly, for some stupid reason, could also be a stone aged custom, the women sit in a circle one side and do the chit chat thing and men

stand next to the fire and do their thing. Gheeeeeeeee what a killer for me, think if I didnt have a cigaret in my hand to keep me busy, or burn me when on its limit, I would have fallen asleep long time ago!!! (yap sowi, smoker this side, also not the lady like thing to do here) Anyways, I usually pretend to go to the bathroom at such events and slip away, go chatting to the guys, my husband already know how I feel, so he told me its fine, I can join them, he "apparently" dont mind. I also (like Noob) dont mind doing things expected from men only, cause I believe that women could (if they really want to) do all men can do + all things expected from women, why not??? It is a chalenge for me! (If at a BBQ I usually start to discuss my Tiling project and I can see the gals fading away, but I dont forget to mention to them, that I am also a master cook and can help myself very well when I need to do some sowing) Ya needlessly to say, they think I am the Tomboy of the group, but I think to many of them are only to scared to tackle "men" stuff and have much more potential than they realize. Just wanna give them a kick in the b*** being like that!!! lol

 

Getting to the other side of the story: Me realizing there's no god or gods

Shared all the info I could gather on this issue with my hubby. He listened to all I had to say and didnt say a word. (being me, who always want to be updated on what his feelings are) I could take

the silence after that, asked him what he thought of it and got NO RESPONSE!!! (I have a lot of info on marriages, actually bought a package 2yrs ago, which said: Never tackle a man and force him to respond on what you just told him, give him time to think about it) so thats what I did. I told him that its ok, I would give him time and we would discuss it the next day. The next day (2weeks ago) came and went........no discussion from his side. Yesterday I decided not to attend church with him, had a bit of a disagreement the previous night. OOOOOh my, could have been the nail in the coffin for me....... Total different man came back from church and it drives me crazeeeee......knowing that he also got issues with lots of the stats in the bible, I just cant believe after all I've showed him, he is still hanging onto the church. Dono what I am gonna do..... did any of you guys have similar situations or know of someone who went through this and can maybe help, cause it seems like this is going to cause a divorce in the end Please help if you can???

 

Sorry for the dramatic end, I still think you all are extremely cool and would love friends like you!!

 

Take care!!!

[CynthiaBelle]

Hehe, I love you ladies too! I wish I knew gals like you IRL. My feelings about marriage have gotten really skewed. I got married at only 21 and he became an abusive alcoholic...we separated shortly after I admitted I'm an Atheist. My current boyfriend is controlling and has been the topic of another discussion... I'm feeling pretty sure I'll never get married again. It sounds like chains to me...I reserve the right to change my mind at any time and I've seen how men can change when they get too comfortable...so I never want it to be so difficult and dangerous to leave as in marriage. I am still very young though and realize I could meet a man so great that I change my mind...but I really don't see a purpose in marriage anymore. And historically it does seem to be about men claiming women as their property. Grrrr....

 

Has anyone else's ex-christian status changed their feelings on marriage??

[joD]

I just found this thread and read it from top to bottom! Wow! All of a sudden I don't feel like the only woman out there with these issues! I have been married for 27 years. My hubby and I were of the conservative christian variety, I am out, but he is still very much in. We have 6 children together. I don't regret that, they are amazing kids. What i resent is that my husband talks down to me, treats me like I have no brain. When, if fact I do. I have homeschooled for 20 plus years, have learned enough reflexology, herbs, naturopathy to help "nurse" our sick child, and keep her out of the hospital, I read voraciously, can converse with people with much more education than I have and love the company of men probably more than the company of "girly" women. My husband insists that he respects me and and thinks I'm smart, but when it comes down to it, he treats me like the cook and laundry girl. I have less respect for him, because of that. He thinks our marriage is perfect, I say it sucks! He also would be insecure about me chatting with a male friend on line or striking up a conversation with someone I have something in common with if it was a guy. I feel trapped, love my kids and hate the marriage. Unfortunately, I spent my youth (ages 29-30) having babies, skipped college, so my highest degree of formal education is only high school. Retail work is all I'm really qualified for, which doesn't pay well. I'd love to hear how more of you are dealing with these issues. I feel like now that I am not trying to be a "submissive wife" .....that was my life for my entire adulthood, I am trying to find myself. Who the hell am I without that god-awful role? Thanks for listening, i look forward to reading more on this thread!

[CynthiaBelle]

Sometimes I can't help but kind of daydream about how different my life might have been...how different my choices would have been, if I was raised in a non-religious home. It's hard to not feel cheated out of something and like this whole mess could have been avoided...you know?

[ClaraOlive]

Yeah, I agree ClaraOlive. I'm glad you brought that up because it's something I really need to either work on or accept about myself. I'm really time-selfish, so HATE spending time on things that are not important to me.

 

Another thing I thought of was that many of your male friends probably have just as many dissimilar interests than yours as your female friends. They probably spend a lot of time doing things that you're not into (not because they're male, just because they're a different person than you), but you don't have to participate or probably aren't even invited. It seems like if a man says "I like tennis, reading, video games and I'm an atheist" and a "non-girly" woman has two of those four things in common, she'll think- oh we have a lot in common, we could be friends. But if a woman says "I like tennis, reading, shopping, and I'm not really religious", the non-girly woman will find excuses to pick her apart- oh we really only have a few things in common and she said "not really religious" instead of atheist, and she likes shopping, we probably wouldn't get along that well... There's this feeling that if you're going to be friends with another woman, you need your "list" to match up almost perfectly, and if you become friends with someone who's too 'girly' that's going to reflect on you, when in reality, a good friend can be someone totally different from you.

 

I got to a point where I was so miserable that I felt the only options left were suicide, homicide, or divorce - which was a crucial point in my deconversion, because I realized that a deity that would condemn anyone to a lifetime of misery like that was a really shitty deity.

 

I hear you on this. I posted more about my situation here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=29189

 

I am still very young though and realize I could meet a man so great that I change my mind...but I really don't see a purpose in marriage anymore. And historically it does seem to be about men claiming women as their property. Grrrr....

 

Has anyone else's ex-christian status changed their feelings on marriage??

 

After I divorced/deconverted, I didn't see a purpose in marriage, and I still don't think it's necessary for myself. However, I've gotten into a committed relationship with a man who wants to be married. He doesn't want a ceremony, or for me to change my name, or for us to combine finances (which is something I am dead set against doing), but the act of getting married means something to him. I'm still thinking about it, but I'm leaning toward the idea that doing something that has meaning to him is more important than not doing something so that society won't infer the wrong things about me.

[R. S. Martin]

I'm still thinking about it, but I'm leaning toward the idea that doing something that has meaning to him is more important than not doing something so that society won't infer the wrong things about me.

 

That part that I bolded sent up red flags for me. It might work well for everyone else on the planet but I've found when I do things for no other reason than for public opinion it always works out wrong in the end. Maybe that's just me.

 

I must say it's really good to see a thread about other women who find it difficult to "fit in." I come from a large family of women, most of them single. I have seven sisters. My mother had six sisters. I've always felt the entire tribe of women looked down on me and I don't know how to be a woman. I just know how to be a brain. I think I survived by my wits because there was no way I could survive by femininity--I haven't got any that I know of--not like the others do. I'm not submissive. I hate to cook and keep house and socialize and be a hostess and entertain and all the good stuff Christian women just do by second nature.

[joD]

sorry, i just reread my post and realized I said I spent my youth from ages 29-30 having babies, that should have read 19 to 30!

Anyway, it is interesting how for a woman to leave christianity, she has to almost redefine who she is, especially if she has spent her whole adult trying to be a "submissive" wife, etc.

[godlessgrrl]

Has anyone else's ex-christian status changed their feelings on marriage??

 

Well, I don't think my ex-Xian status has, but getting divorced sure did.

 

It came stunningly clear to me during the process that marriage is nothing more than a civil contract, authorized by the state, conferring a certain set of legal rights and responsibilities (somewhere around 1400 federal ones alone) to a couple. One must appeal to the state to establish it, and appeal to the state to dissolve it. It really is a separate process from any actual relationship a couple has, though we tend to link the two in both theory and practice.

 

So when my second spouse asked me to marry him, I wasn't thinking about the relationship. I was thinking about the legal process, and asking myself if I wanted to go through it again. Did I want to legally entangle myself with an intimate partner again? And, well, two years later I decided I did.

 

Fwiw, the contrast between the two marriages is like night and day. The first one was supposed to be this godly Christian marriage to a godly Christian man. I don't recall that my ex was particularly sexist or demeaning in any overt way, nor was there any indication that he had any disrespect for me as an intellectual being. He did, however, disrespect me as an emotional being, and we were unable to maintain any kind of emotional intimacy.

 

And because we were Christians, though many things were equal, there was always a subtext of Biblical female submission at play. I think it expressed itself mainly in the unspoken assumption that, as the woman, I was the one responsible for maintaining the domestic relationship, creating a peaceful home for my husband, fixing our marital problems by myself, preventing arguments, and so on. Biblical prohibitions against divorce also kept me in it longer than was healthy, but I eventually gave the Bible the finger and bailed. If god wanted me to stay in a miserable marriage I couldn't possibly fix by myself, he's a right royal asshole and doesn't deserve my loyalty, any more than my ex did.

 

My second marriage is radically different. I don't think I've ever had such an equal relationship, to be perfectly honest, married or otherwise. It isn't just a matter of personal or social equality, either - it's daily life stuff too. He actually does more housework than I do! Oh man, and we actually squabble - something my ex and I never did, but which we've discovered is crucial to hashing stupid little conflicts out. I never thought I'd be content to argue, y'know? I love him to bits.

 

Probably the most mindboggling thing, though, is that our relationship is polyamorous (a V of 3 people), and it's working. Which is like a nuclear bomb dropped into all my sexual paradigms, bigtime. I mean I was taught that intimate relationships must be monogamous, must be exclusive, and if you involve anyone else it's adultery, has to be done on the sly, and means the relationship breaks up. I was taught that if I got attracted to someone else, my male partner was supposed to flip out and get violent and controlling. To find that both the men with whom I am involved not only tolerate but also enjoy the other's presence in both my life and each other's is just so far beyond the crappy little patriarchal model I was taught... well, I could gush about it for hours and probably never adequately explain how amazing it is.

 

But there it is, regardless.

 

The thing that nails me about marriage is that I was also socialized, as a girl, to believe that marriage and babies was my goal in life. I dunno about anybody else but I had that shit hammered into my head practically from birth. I was supposed to grow up, find a man, get married, settle down, and raise a mess of his babies. It isn't that I ever thought that was bad work or nobody should do it, what upset me when I finally grew was nobody had ever asked if that was what I really wanted to do. They always assumed that since I'm female, marriage and kids are my thing, and that they would comprise the core of my identity and existence when I grew up. And that was the only acceptable way, as a woman, that I was ever supposed to find fulfillment in life.

 

I can't think of a single man who got the same kind of indoctrination about marriage and kids. All the guys I know describe being taught that marriage and kids was one part of a life that included many other equally important things, not something that was supposed to consume their entire existence. No man I know of was ever expected to give up his name, his career, his job, his lifestyle, or his religion in order to devote himself exclusively to staying home and tending to his wife and raising his children.

 

Heh. This is getting long. Sorry for rambling, thanks if you read all this...

[CynthiaBelle]

Heh. This is getting long. Sorry for rambling, thanks if you read all this...

You're welcome. haha! It was a very interesting read. I was also told that the pinnacle of my existence would be to get married and have kids...and basically that I couldn't or wouldn't have any worth outside of that. My parents have never said, "We just want you to be happy" or "What do you want in life?" I'm glad we managed to break free. Your relationship(s) sound very interesting and fun. *jealous* hahaha!

[Amethyst]

I too had the "you must get married and have kids" thing rammed down my throat as a kid. In fact, my mother used it as a weapon which wreaked havoc on my self-esteem for years.

 

I am most certainly *not* a girly girl...I like computers, for gosh sakes! And the only bits of femininity I have is that I don't mind cooking from scratch, and I will clean when I have to. Otherwise - not much.

[Kathlene]

Since coming out of xtianity my views of marriage have completely changed. Hell, my views on sex have completely changed. Im not sure I would ever legally get married anymore. At this stage in my life I would be happy to have a relationship and live separately, and then eventually move in with each other. I dont think I need the legal status of marriage anymore. Funnily enough all my growing up years I just wanted to have a baby. I got married very young at 19, and had a baby straight after. Ive been divorced for many years now, so Im kind of over the whole baby thing. But I still haven't made up my mind if I ever want another one in the future. But marriage? Not really. Once you step out of the constraints of xtianity you realise you are free, and you dont have to live by that model anymore...its so enlightening, like a big weight has been lifted off your shoulders. Its all good. I can take my life, my body, my sexuality and have my own decisions over them. Not a church, or god, or xtian friends or pastors..I am free.

[WCrystal]

People have told me many times, since I was a child ('cause asking "why" isn't what you're supposed to do, yah know) that I'm SO unfeminine and un-girly. And that I'm intimidating. And my mom got pissed off at me one time because I wouldn't take a former relation back because I said "I'm using rational thinking instead of that whole 'love' cop-out". Most people who really don't know me think that I lack empathy and compassion. And one lady at a church I went to got mad at me because she always saw me wearing jeans and shirts, and didn't take my explanation that they were comfortable. People have always thought I'm strange for never wanting children, and me trying to explain that I have no maternal instinct, and that I have a relaxed view on marriage. I could give a shit if I get married. If others get married, cool. Hope they are happy. I'm not too concerned whether I get married or not, and I better not pop out any fucking kids. I couldn't even see the point in playing with dolls when I was little because I didn't want kids, even then. I was like this since I was little. I am like this now, still. And sure, some people are bothered by it.

 

When I was younger (in my teens), all of my other friends were doing the dating thing and acting like they were dumb to get a guy. And it worked. I didn't act dumb, I was proud of what I knew, the fact that I passed everything with high marks, and comfortable with the fact that I didn't show much emotion, and I seemed to repel every person I wanted to date -- and my mom made me feel like shit about it because she said I wasn't "girly" enough. Well, I decided I'd rather be alone and know who I am and why I am that way that bullshit everyone. So it doesn't bother me anymore. I'm not going to lie to myself and others just to subscribe to what they want me to be. I know who I am and I know what I want (for the most part).

 

It seems that a lot of people (or at least a lot that I've encountered) are freaked out by women who are confident and know who they are, mainly because of the western gender roles of the female being dependent and subservient and the male being dominant and protective. Not all people are, but a lot.

[Jane of the Jungle]

Yap the "girly" thing also passed me since birth I think lol, grew up with 3 brothers, so it was a matter of "fight for your rights or loose all" not Necessarily a bad thing though,

I think it prepared me much better for adult life! Sure didnt prepare me for ALL the heartaches, sure I can be the touch cookie, but it doesnt mean I am without a heart! Must also say,

I wasnt the Mommy tipe, when I finished school, but unfortunitely fell pregnant very early after that, had a real tough time, divorced.......and all the bad things with it. But ........ walked

out much stronger there, I must say it is amazing how ones Maternal instincts grow stronger, protecting your child! Got married approx 4yrs after that and decided to have a honeymoon babes cause the age difference would be much larger later. Had my second baby (planned this time) and enjoyed her soooooo much, still do and shes almost 16 this year lol.

(Ps. only telling you this, because if you told me at a age of 16, I would have kids and enjoy them, I would have lmao) But sure, I think if I didnt have a kid that early I most possibly

wouldnt have had any at all, so I must say, I do understand what youre saying there!

 

Ghee gals, your talking about household chores I hate those, the food preparing "thing" is much easier and much more fun than the cleaning "thing" hey! Ive been wondering:

"If I work 1 hour extra every day, use that money to pay someone to come and do what they Love to do" lol

 

Take care all

[ClaraOlive]

People have always thought I'm strange for never wanting children, and me trying to explain that I have no maternal instinct...

I'm childfree too, and I feel like this makes it doubly hard to find female friends. Even non-religious women my age tend to have small children, and while this isn't a reason I would reject someone as a friend, our priorities, lifestyle and schedule are bound to be radically different. I would never monopolize an entire conversation talking about something a friend didn't have an interest in- sure I'd give her an update about all the parts of my life, but I wouldn't spend hours and hours on that one subject...

 

My boyfriend has male friends with children, and although it does make scheduling harder, these male friends don't tend as much to talk about the kids constantly, and are more ok with leaving them home with a sitter to go out.

[godlessgrrl]

Y'know, I guess I'm not really terribly girly either, and as I think of it, I never really have been. At the same time I wouldn't say I've ever been a tomboy either; I always knew I was a girl, and just did whatever I wanted to, when I was a child. I climbed trees, played with Tinkertoys, tended to fall into puddles and streams a lot; but I also wore skirts and had long pretty hair that I liked to comb. Strangely, I was never interested at all in playing with baby dolls. Barbie was OK, but I would rather have had Lego.

 

I don't think I minded being a girl when I was a child. But it occurs to me that gender wasn't really as strictly enforced back then (despite the mandate about girls growing up and having kids). The demand to be exclusively feminine didn't really hit until I hit puberty. Then I was supposed to put away the Tinkertoys and the jeans and stop falling into puddles, and I was supposed to start wearing makeup and styling my hair and demurring to everyone. I had my first period early too, at 11 (started in earnest at 12); it was a nightmare from day one. So I don't know, it was like I suddenly had all this bullshit hanging over me.

 

It isn't so much that there was no femininity before that, it's more like puberty marked the point at which being feminine was the only thing allowed for me anymore - demanded, even. Fortunately nobody required me to give up being smart, in fact they were proud of me for that. It was the sudden obsession with my skin quality and the demand that I wear makeup and become concerned with fashion and my looks, and the strange mixed message insisting that I find a man to marry without ever being actually sexually interested in men until marriage, that really threw me.

 

So I don't think I've ever had much interest in being feminine, and I also think that when being "ladylike" was thrust upon me, I just ended up resenting it, and rejecting it in general. Took awhile for me to figure out; I had a long struggle between independence vs. status quo, but independence won out in the end.

 

To this day, though, I can't say I'm particularly feminine. I rarely wear skirts, I'm not a fan of makeup (though I do wear it, because I just look better with a little), I'm not into styling my hair or shopping a lot or cleaning house or having babies or being particularly passive or submissive. On the rare occasions when I do get all dolled up and adopt "feminine" dress, I tend to go for a sexy look: reds and blacks, dark lipstick, a vampy look. If you asked me what it means to be a woman, I could talk about my biology, and I could talk about the negative aspects to gender socialization - but I wouldn't really know what the answer is.

 

I suppose the drawback is that I felt compulsory feminization of myself was such a negative thing, and I got only the negative side of it, that I really don't feel like I take part in the good parts of femininity either. I can get emotional, but I'm not very good at talking about my feelings. Neither am I terribly nurturing or compassionate. I don't have many female friends, because I can't really relate to women very well. I don't take any pride in being beautiful. (I don't even know whether I am beautiful, except in this vague sort of "some might find me so" way.)

 

Fuck, Eddie Izzard is more feminine than I am, and he's a man.

 

I do love beautiful jewelry, though. And I guess if anything makes me feel anything resembling feminine, it's lovely, exotic-looking jewelry. Interestingly enough, a friend of mine said once that jewelry is women's armor. I've always thought that was an interesting idea.

 

Anyway.