Tithing

[Looking4Answers]

The small church I was a part of had a budget of almost $200,000 a year (salaries, missions, bills, projects, etc). All of this came from the tithe. Our church only had about 140 people and that is counting the children as well! And we did not have many that were well off. So this meant that many gave "sacrificially." I am ashamed to say that, even when money was bad in our home, we gave as well.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

On one hand there were the preachers claiming you can get rich in JE-sus, for a "seed faith" offering, then the sacrificial offering, then "faith promise" which I always likened to the temptation of jumping off the tower to see if God catches you. I saw people take 2nd mortgages, cash in CDs, sell stocks, all to support a church building project. I happened to sit in the office one day putting together a hymnal while an elder meeting took place on the other side of a room divider. They were talking about how the entrance had been built and torn out several times because it didn't meet the approval of the pastor. Of course this added a few hundred thousand to the bill, since it was an ornate entrance. Someone went to get a drink and saw me there and just about came unglued. They all came pouring into the room demanding that I leave the office while the meeting was going on, since "no business would ever allow someone who isn't involved in leadership to overhear a meeting." I said, "Hmm, I thought we were the body of Christ." I left.

 

My wife and I have easily given away in the $100K range over the 30 years we were in church. I'm glad that is over.

[godlessgrrl]

Before I was ever married, I never really tithed regularly. I'd give what I could, when I could. It never amounted to much.

 

My first spouse and I tithed at the Presbyterian church we attended. We did it nearly weekly for a couple of years. I suspect my ex still does. It was largely his choice and his responsibility. It irritates me a little, but we could afford it, and there are probably worse churches we could've given to.

 

Nowadays spouse and I use that same 10% guideline to put money away in our savings. It's the same as tithing was - we can't always do it, and sometimes it doesn't amount to much. But at least it goes towards our own needs instead of lining the pockets of some preacher man.

 

The pastor gave the usual spiel on tithing, Malachi, etc...then said you were robbing god if you didn't do it, and he also said it in essence "buys" gods protection.

 

Wow. Your pastor actually admitted openly that tithing is a protection racket?? Nice!

[Vigile]

The math just doesn't work for me....even when I assume an average of 50 regular attendees making $500 a week, and giving $50 each sunday....comes out to only $2500 a month in tithe money. It cannot pay both the maintenence fees AND church employee wages...it just can't.

 

When I was a financial adviser we would sometimes set up something called a charitable remainder trust for our clients who had property wealth.

 

In short it works like this: Lets say you have a farmer with property worth $2M. The farmer wishes to leave the property to his kids when he dies but the problem is there will be a large estate tax on the property as the title exchanges hands. It is likely that the kids won't have the cash to pay the estate tax so they will be forced to sell the farm in order to pay the gov.

 

The solution (unless the laws have now changed, dunno anymore) is to put the property in a trust while the farmer is still alive and to allocate the trust to a charity of the farmer's choice.

 

Charitable giving of an estate is nontaxable. Then, the farmer would buy a life insurance policy that is at least equal to the value of the trust account. Life insurance proceeds are also nontaxable.

 

When the farmer dies, the property gets donated and the kids get the insurance money and the government gets nothing. The charity doesn't want the property, they want the money, so it is written into the trust that the insurance money will be exchanged for the property. The kids then get the property and the charity gets the money.

 

I believe churches probably benefit from this situation all the time and obviously it amounts to much more than a measly 10%/week that most people give.

[Kathlene]

Before I was ever married, I never really tithed regularly. I'd give what I could, when I could. It never amounted to much.

 

My first spouse and I tithed at the Presbyterian church we attended. We did it nearly weekly for a couple of years. I suspect my ex still does. It was largely his choice and his responsibility. It irritates me a little, but we could afford it, and there are probably worse churches we could've given to.

 

Nowadays spouse and I use that same 10% guideline to put money away in our savings. It's the same as tithing was - we can't always do it, and sometimes it doesn't amount to much. But at least it goes towards our own needs instead of lining the pockets of some preacher man.

 

The pastor gave the usual spiel on tithing, Malachi, etc...then said you were robbing god if you didn't do it, and he also said it in essence "buys" gods protection.

 

Wow. Your pastor actually admitted openly that tithing is a protection racket?? Nice!

Yeah, no wonder I am such a messed up freak now. I think in my still brainwashed brain that I have walked away from the comfy protection of god and am now shuddering out in the cold with satan as my friend...oh were getting along just fine It is this indoctrinated crap that has really screwed me up. The guilt and fear that plagued me AS a xtian has now been reversed...oh when will it ever end???

[Deva]

The guilt and fear of the brainwashing will end, because we are all going to clearly see through all this crap for what it is -- total illusion and move on into clarity.

 

This tithe and offering scam -- isn't it really nothing more than buying salvation? Think about the absurdity of that for awhile. Think about an eternal, all powerful, all knowing God needing your money.

[angelinabee]

I never bought into that scam.

 

My (wealthy) parents knew it, and they'd look at me and tell me that I HAD to tithe ten percent of my very meager paycheck that I got from working at the frickin grocery store as a teenager. They'd tell me that if they didn't tithe they'd be afraid of god's wrath.

 

Even back then I knew that was nonsense. If god is god, why does he need my twenty-four dollars? Also, why does he need several thousand dollars a month from my parents that should have been going to my college fund?

[Guest sinderella60]

In my "fundie" marriage of 25 years, yikes!, we tithed religously. More out of fear than anything. They know how much you tithe because they strongly encourage you to set up an "account" to be tracked for your tax deduction. You do want your tax deduction, I mean you are giving, giving, and giving. So, they know, when you didn't give your blood money. We never considered cheating God and the church. Wow, I mean the terrrible, horrible things that could befall you were just too scary to imagine. Shiver and Shudders. If we didn't give no matter what, then the devil would find a way for that money to be taken from us. The washer might break down, the furnance would need replacing, the car wrecked, or worse yet, an illness may befall us or a loved one, that would take the difference and MORE. Because if you cheated God, you not only would be made to pay the difference, but a lesson had to be taught, and it would cost you a lot more then what you didn't give.

 

I used to carry a $100 and $50 dollar bill in my wallet for "just in case" money. I always thought if things got real tough I had that money. Well just recently, (I am new to this re-examining why I believe what I thought I believed stuff) I was racked with guilt about keeping this money and not giving it to the church (now a spiritulist church instead of fundie, oh how I have grown). It was more to do with the "laws of attraction" if I hold this money out of fear or a sense of lacking, then the universe can read my thoughts and know that I have a sense of lack, AND THAT IS WHY I HAVE NO MONEY!!! If I truly wanted all the abundance that is mine to have, then I cannot have any sense of lack....so I dropped it in the collection basket, and the kicker is, now with my tithing, I don't even put my name on it!!!! Thinking if I want something back, say a tax deduction, then I was not truly giving out of a sense of abundance.

 

Guilt and fear. It seems no matter what "religion" you believe in, be it traditional, fundie, pentacostal, spiritual...guilt and fear are the driving forces.

[NaturalSelection]

I would say that if you added up the total amount of money I gave to the "church", from the time I was a child to the time I deconverted at age 43, it would not even come to $2000....maybe not even $1500. And almost $800 of it happened in a 6 month period that I attended a Baptist Church in 1999. It just killed me to hand that much over then plus I'd wallow in guilt for feeling reluctant to give it.

 

Mama and Daddy had a rule, "don't put more than a dollar in the collection plate (it's already 75 cents too much LOL).

 

 

My grandma's minister visited her when she got too disabled to attend church and reminded her that she still needed to give the church some money even though she couldn't come and she was on a very limited fixed income. My grandma leaned in toward the preacher and said, "The bible says you're supposed to take care of widows and orphans"...."I'm a widow on a fixed income and I "gave" what I could all my life, now YOU are supposed to be giving me and all the other old widows and widowers money". "I'd like mine in cash". -- Well, that was the last time that preacher ever hit my grandma up for another dime....and he didn't send her the money she was biblically due".

 

 

Another time, sometime in the early 2000's my dad was visiting a friend of his who ran a used car lot. They were talking and the man said, "Oh no, here comes that goddamn preacher begging for money again." The preacher comes over to them and starts begging for money to build on to his church. Now keep in mind my dad and his friend, the used car salesman, were both christians....but when the preacher started begging my dad said, "why don't you just pitch a tent, it's cheaper" and the friend added, "Yeah, Jesus did his preaching outside, if it's good enough for Jesus it ought to be good enough for you". Daddy said you should have seen the look on that preacher's face and the "tail between the legs" body language as he meandered away to look for the next "mark".

 

That's the way most of the Christians in middle Tennesse, in my area, viewed tithing in my parents generation. I think a lot has changed about that in the past 30 yrs. Now, even their local mega church takes in hundreds of thousands of dollars and people will cut their own kids out of their wills so they can leave it all to the church. Really sad.

[Deva]

IAnother time, sometime in the early 2000's my dad was visiting a friend of his who ran a used car lot. They were talking and the man said, "Oh no, here comes that goddamn preacher begging for money again." The preacher comes over to them and starts begging for money to build on to his church. Now keep in mind my dad and his friend, the used car salesman, were both christians....but when the preacher started begging my dad said, "why don't you just pitch a tent, it's cheaper" and the friend added, "Yeah, Jesus did his preaching outside, if it's good enough for Jesus it ought to be good enough for you". Daddy said you should have seen the look on that preacher's face and the "tail between the legs" body language as he meandered away to look for the next "mark".

 

Yeah, why can't they just pitch a tent? Not good enough any more, is it? There is an old tradition in the south of "camp meetings", where a traveling preacher would come to town and literally put up a tent and preach for a week, then move on. I remember attending one of these myself in Virginia. Now they have to have 2 million dollar megachurch buildings with giant auditoriums.

[noob]

Yes. It’s embarrassing, but I admit I fell for it in a big way. The way I understood it, if you were not able to tithe 10% or more, you were not managing what gawd had blessed you with. And, if you couldn’t manage what you already had, why would he bless you with more? So, I tithed. In fact, if my memory serves me correctly, one year I deducted over $12,000 on my income taxes in charitable contributions and almost all of that went to the church. It wasn’t bad enough that I tithed 10% plus of my income, but that year I stupidly cashed out my 401K to purchase some land that my husband wanted (sometimes I act so stupid, I embarrass myself) and I gave 10% of the proceeds from that! Loser!!!!!

[Amethyst]

Had no choice but to tithe as a kid. As an adult, I rarely tithed.

 

However I do give money to charity now when I can afford to, but non-religious charities.

[Seeker630]

You know I've read this whole thread so far, and it brings back some pretty serious memories for me too. I was raised very hard core Roman Catholic. 8 years Catholic school, altar boy---the works. I remember that as children we were expected to give part of our meager weekly allowance (I got 50 cents a week as I recall) for any number of special collections they had---starving children someplace or other, missions, you name it. That was in addition to the little numbered envelopes they gave us to use at Sunday mass every week. They got you in the giving habit early on in life.

 

For the kids it was nothing special----after all even buzzards like them knew that we had no income of our own. But they dept track of what adults were or were not giving. Every so often each family was told to pick up some boxes of envelopes after mass on a particular Sunday. The envelopes were numbered and the name of the family picking up that box was written down.

 

And all those millions they are having to pay out for the paedo lawsuits------guess who's footing the bill for all of that?-----------the poor dumb saps in the pews.

 

I give money now to the ACLU, Americans United, and non-profit's like the American Lung Association, Easter Seals, Paralyzed Veterans of America and others. Not one damned nickel to any religious organization.

[GraphicsGuy]

I've lived paycheck to paycheck for most of my adult life (never been good with my money) and always felt really guilty about not being able to tithe while a Xian.

 

Towards the last few years of my stint in the cult I did start trying to give some money directly to people in the church that I felt needed it...or that I felt God "told" me to give it to. I didn't feel it was right for it to sit in the church coffers.

[freeradikle]

The time I attended church and the time I've held real jobs barely overlapped, so I didn't end up paying much into the system.

 

With regards to where the church got the mainstay of its income, my church was "blessed" with at least four or five multimillionaire families who would just cut blank checks every time the church had some kind of big building project or budget shortfall.

[cmotdibbler]

I still attend church with my fundy family (long story). The non-denominational (Baptist-lite) church doesn't really get into tithing as a subject. Since I am an atheist and my salary as a PhD level scientist is significantly smaller than the insurance agents and engineers I put only $2 in the plate. Mostly to pay for any flies I might accidentally inhale while waiting for service to end. I am guilty of trying to peek at the checks when they come around and am shocked how much people contribute.

[therunner]

i've never tithed. never attended a church that I felt deserved my money. Now i did throw a buck or two in the plate when it came around on a few occasions, but never a 10% of my earnings check. I feel now I am still being tithed, and we all are, by those tax sucking bastards of a church. I wish I could conjure up a scam where everyone in the community would give me 10% of their money and I tell them they're going to have ever-lasting life.

 

The largest business in my community is a church yet it pays no taxes! It creates more revenue than the town I live in and I had to pay for the road to get paved leading to the enormous pillar of Jesus with an LED flashing sign detailing when sunday school and services began.

[Deva]

The largest business in my community is a church yet it pays no taxes! It creates more revenue than the town I live in and I had to pay for the road to get paved leading to the enormous pillar of Jesus with an LED flashing sign detailing when sunday school and services began.

 

Enough to make you sick, isn't it? We even have a large church nearby that has but up sexually suggestive billboard advertisements in a shameless attempt to pander to people's prurient interest just to get them in the door. Then it turns out to be a series of sermons on married sex:

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/con...ipped_0216.html

 

The tax thing is outrageous. I am already getting ripped off paying extra high taxes as a single person. If it was actually going to help me in my old age I wouldn't mind but we don't even know if social security will exist in 20 years. What a farce!