Hello Everyone :-)

[Guest I_Love_Seitan]

Hi Everyone, I am really glad I have found this place!

Geez...where do I start. Ok, well I am 41 years old, and was raised a Catholic by my (very) Catholic Dad and Atheist Mum. From the age of about 2 years old I would toddle off to church with Dad every Sunday, and go through the various motions that one does as a Catholic kid. Went to Catholic schools, got beaten by Nuns etc. In other words I had a happy Catholic childhood I remember at the age of about 9 or 10 thinking that I didn't believe in God, and praying very hard for 'faith'. It seemed to work as around that time, I started to not mind going along to church with Dad. I actually came to enjoy it. The ritual kind of had me hooked.

 

Then when I was around 16 a new family joined our local church and they were 'charismatic'. Well talk about blow the cobwebs away from boring old church practices! this family had a great band and played at Sunday mass. They also started to run their own little youth group from their home and I went along. Next was a 'Life in the Spirit Seminar' which was basically a series of talks followed by being born again in the Spirit. And so I was. The next year or so I walked on a cloud. I remember being counseled to not let myself be carried along by emotions, but to work hard on developing my own personal relationship with Jesus. It just got harder and harder. If I didn't feel guilty enough before, I sure did now. This family taught us that rock music was evil, and TV wasn't far behind. We were not to have boyfriends/girlfriends, because going out with someone was a preparation for marriage. Bible to be read daily. EVERY day, etc etc....you guys probably know the score.

 

Well, I kind of extracted myself from this family eventually, and felt horribly guilty for years. I had over this period gotten married and had 4 great kids. We continued to go to church, but had left the catholic church for a community based one ( open Brethren ) when the kids were little. I don't remember ever being involved with such a weird bunch of social misfits in my life! It was a small community but many there never once spoke to us the whole time we went. Don't get me wrong - the ones who did were lovely. We ended up going back to another local Catholic church, and had been going along regularly for the last 10 years. Christmas day 2007 was the last time we went.

 

I know this probably looks like it's all over the place, but i am typing and trying to put my thoughts together at the same time So...where do I stand now? Well...when I was pregnant with my oldest child, 19 years ago I read The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley. I loved it so much it got me thinking about my whole spiritual life. I remember thinking " I wanna be a priestess!" Anyway that marvelous book got the ball rolling. Then in 2001 the 9/11 thing happened and that moved me along another few pegs. I kept thinking "those people genuinely think they are doing the right thing, and how could human beings do this to others?" what was worse was the thought that I had been just as zealous when I was a born again fundie...that scared the crap out of me.

Now....I am at a place where I think there might be a higher being who cares, but i don't know. I kind of like the idea of the force like in star Wars :-)

[Emme]

Hi Seitan! Welcome. I love your avatar!

[Trike]

Hello and welcome!

[deb]

Welcome I.L.S.! I enjoyed your story, and can relate to some of it. I was also raised Catholic, and I have 6 great kids. I figure once you go past 3, we're all in some kinda crazy club? Anyway, you'll enjoy it here, and I look forward to hearing more from you.

 

Deb

[Crazycatlady]

Wow, your Catholic childhood sounds very much like mine: father stricter catholic (Mom's a believer), begging for faith at around age 10/11, getting into charismatic stuff at high school age, etc. I feel like I can understand where you're coming from on a lot of things and look forward to getting to know you better. Course, I'm 21 years younger, so there's a lot that I won't be able to relate to at all.

 

Welcome and enjoy ex-christian (which I always think of as "ex-x," surely I'm not the only one?).

[pitchu]

Welcome to the forums, ILS.

 

I think you'll find many here who can relate to your journey.

 

Interesting that 911 was such an eye-opener for you... obviously you have a good ability to extrapolate.

 

Have fun here!

[hereticzero]

Growing up Protestant, I was also in a church youth group singing choir (whatever they call it) and we traveled to different churches singing. We had guitars, drums, everything, we even cut a record album, once. It was a real experience having our director tell us rock and roll was evil but the songs we sang were rock and roll that mentioned Jesus. It was crap and I left it after a year.

Welcome.

[Guest I_Love_Seitan]

Thanks for the warm welcome Peeps! Yes indeedy...this has been, and continues to be a rather painful journey for me. Not helped by certain things like the following....When we first stopped going to Mass my Dad would corner my kids and say things like " You know its a sin to not go to Mass don't you? You'll go to hell!" It didn't bother them at all, they thought it was funny, but boy...it made me mad as hell! I caught him one day and had to firmly put him in his place. I keep waiting for him to ask me straight out what the story is - but he never has. I think he's too scared what he might find out!

 

Debs - ha! I know what you mean! We used to call it 'The Van Club ' at church because when you hit 3 or more kids you had to buy a van because you couldn't fit them all in the car anymore!

 

I hear where you are coming from HZ....we were told all manner of crap like that too. I swear you hear more BS in supposed 'Christian' circles than anywhere else! I remember the rubbish about 'backward masking' in rock music - how it was supposed to contain subliminal messages to make you do 'naughty' stuff' ha! what a scream! Oh yes...and how KISS ( the band ) stood for Knights In Satans Service.....man talk about deluded!

 

pitchu - it seemed quite obvious to me, the people who did that were fundamentalists. Whether Muslim, Christian or Jewish did not matter. ALL fundamentalists are capable of dangerous stuff. Some of them even bomb abortion clinics. Self delusion is a powerful thing!

[LBW]

Thanks for the warm welcome Peeps! Yes indeedy...this has been, and continues to be a rather painful journey for me. Not helped by certain things like the following....When we first stopped going to Mass my Dad would corner my kids and say things like " You know its a sin to not go to Mass don't you? You'll go to hell!" It didn't bother them at all, they thought it was funny, but boy...it made me mad as hell! I caught him one day and had to firmly put him in his place. I keep waiting for him to ask me straight out what the story is - but he never has. I think he's too scared what he might find out!

Welcome to the forums, Seitan. I am going to blow a gasket if that type of exchange ever happens between one of our family members & our kids. I'm glad your children aren't bothered by his threats. My oldest is only 5, and she is extremely suggestible, so the concept of hell (which I had never shared with her even as a Christian) would likely terrify her.

 

I'm in the, "van club," too, with my four kiddos. Although mine is the SUV chapter of the club. I'm minivan-averse.

[defygravity]

Thanks for the warm welcome Peeps! Yes indeedy...this has been, and continues to be a rather painful journey for me. Not helped by certain things like the following....When we first stopped going to Mass my Dad would corner my kids and say things like " You know its a sin to not go to Mass don't you? You'll go to hell!" It didn't bother them at all, they thought it was funny, but boy...it made me mad as hell! I caught him one day and had to firmly put him in his place. I keep waiting for him to ask me straight out what the story is - but he never has. I think he's too scared what he might find out!

 

Debs - ha! I know what you mean! We used to call it 'The Van Club ' at church because when you hit 3 or more kids you had to buy a van because you couldn't fit them all in the car anymore!

 

I hear where you are coming from HZ....we were told all manner of crap like that too. I swear you hear more BS in supposed 'Christian' circles than anywhere else! I remember the rubbish about 'backward masking' in rock music - how it was supposed to contain subliminal messages to make you do 'naughty' stuff' ha! what a scream! Oh yes...and how KISS ( the band ) stood for Knights In Satans Service.....man talk about deluded!

 

pitchu - it seemed quite obvious to me, the people who did that were fundamentalists. Whether Muslim, Christian or Jewish did not matter. ALL fundamentalists are capable of dangerous stuff. Some of them even bomb abortion clinics. Self delusion is a powerful thing!

 

Hahaha, I so remember those days. I went to a private Christian school and we had Bible class everyday then we would have assembly or as they called it "fellowship" on Fridays and they would bring in supposed experts on this backwards masking crap! I was in junior high when that all started, so roughly 13-14 years old. I remember being told that ACDC meant Against Christ Devils Children. I bought it, too. I believed it all and was scared but I just couldn't stop listening to Duran Duran, LOL! So I did it in secret. Now I let my kids listen to mostly whatever they want. Oh you want that Outcast CD, sure why not! It was funny going into Best Buy, me being a thirty-something white, suburban, minivan driving mom buying my son an Outcast CD.

Welcome to the group. I only have 2 boys but I still had that van! It was quite roomy!

[deb]

I remember being told that ACDC meant Against Christ Devils Children

 

The version I heard was "Assassinate Christ, Destroy Christ" Too funny.

 

And I cannot WAIT til the day I can drive a normal sporty "non-minivan" type car!!

 

Deb

[Guest dragonfly310]

Thanks for the warm welcome Peeps! Yes indeedy...this has been, and continues to be a rather painful journey for me. Not helped by certain things like the following....When we first stopped going to Mass my Dad would corner my kids and say things like " You know its a sin to not go to Mass don't you? You'll go to hell!" It didn't bother them at all, they thought it was funny, but boy...it made me mad as hell! I caught him one day and had to firmly put him in his place. I keep waiting for him to ask me straight out what the story is - but he never has. I think he's too scared what he might find out!

 

Debs - ha! I know what you mean! We used to call it 'The Van Club ' at church because when you hit 3 or more kids you had to buy a van because you couldn't fit them all in the car anymore!

 

I hear where you are coming from HZ....we were told all manner of crap like that too. I swear you hear more BS in supposed 'Christian' circles than anywhere else! I remember the rubbish about 'backward masking' in rock music - how it was supposed to contain subliminal messages to make you do 'naughty' stuff' ha! what a scream! Oh yes...and how KISS ( the band ) stood for Knights In Satans Service.....man talk about deluded!

 

pitchu - it seemed quite obvious to me, the people who did that were fundamentalists. Whether Muslim, Christian or Jewish did not matter. ALL fundamentalists are capable of dangerous stuff. Some of them even bomb abortion clinics. Self delusion is a powerful thing!

 

Hahaha, I so remember those days. I went to a private Christian school and we had Bible class everyday then we would have assembly or as they called it "fellowship" on Fridays and they would bring in supposed experts on this backwards masking crap! I was in junior high when that all started, so roughly 13-14 years old. I remember being told that ACDC meant Against Christ Devils Children. I bought it, too. I believed it all and was scared but I just couldn't stop listening to Duran Duran, LOL! So I did it in secret. Now I let my kids listen to mostly whatever they want. Oh you want that Outcast CD, sure why not! It was funny going into Best Buy, me being a thirty-something white, suburban, minivan driving mom buying my son an Outcast CD.

Welcome to the group. I only have 2 boys but I still had that van! It was quite roomy!

 

I could tell the same story as most of you about my childhood and church. I too almost bought into the "backwards masking" crap. I never bought it because at the time, I was a stubborn child. I wanted to listen to the music I liked, so I made every excuse. I wasn't buying that "backwards masking" crap. Oh, and speaking of AC/DC, the version I was raised with was: After Christ, Devil Comes. (I wonder how many hours, if any, the actual band members spent laughing at the US population's ignorance and odd thinking...)

 

My mom can tell a similar story about me and music. When I was a teenager, I lived in the high and mighty, pious state of Texas, in a little bitty town. I was maybe 16 when they started labeling CD's with those explicit lyrics warnings. I didn't think the music stores would actually enforce those darned things, but to my surprise, they did. I went into a store in the local mall to get the new Red Hot Chili Peppers CD (at the time, it was Blood Sugar Sex Magic. Laughter to a minimum, please. I still own and love that CD....). They asked for my ID and then asked me to get parental consent. So, I make a mad dash to the food court to find my mom. She was dressed conservatively and acted the part, meaning, she was nice and proper until her BS meter went off. My mom didn't care what music I listened to, so she went with me back to the store, and reamed the store clerk. She was NOT happy that she had to go in there and tell the clerk it was ok for me to have that CD before he'd let me buy it. Boy, was that store clerk shocked. He couldn't believe that my mom, looking as she did, would allow me to have that type CD. The look on his face was priceless!!

 

I too am like that with my kiddos. I don't care what music they listen to or watch on TV, even if it annoys me (they just have to listen to the annoying crap with the volume down). I too own a van but I only have two kids. But, I did get a chuckle at the "van club." Oh, how I understand!

[deb]

I'm with you guys...my kids get to listen to whatever they please now. Which is a far cry from how I used to be in my fundie days!! My how things change. But honestly, I really believe the more rules we lay down for our kids, the more they want to break them! We are deluding ourselves if we think we can control everything about what our kids think and desire. I'd rather give them the freedom to be who they are and explore the things they're interested in. Sure they may make some choices that we ourselves aren't 100% comfortable with. But I'd rather live with a few uncomfortable moments then try to squeeze them into any kind of box.

 

Deb

[Guest I_Love_Seitan]

Hey again peeps! Sorry it's been a while since I checked in here. Thank you all for your friendliness and great comments yep the good ol' van club....If we could afford it we would sell it now and get a hybrid I think, but it owes us nothing and the engine is still in good nick, so we may just drive it into the ground I think. My kids are now 12, 15, 17 and 19, and the oldest - my daughter moved out to live with her lovely boyfriend a couple of weeks ago...much to my parents disgust! Ha! I feel so old....

Anyway back to the backward masking thing and band names.....I can't believe how much utter shit Christians propagate in the name of God...I mean just straight out damned lies...its a wonder many haven't been sued for libel! Actually....I heard ACDC meant 'goes both ways' as in bisexual.....thats probably more like it! Yeah.....I listen to much the same stuff as my kids do...well...except for my 17 year old son who is into death metal.....

[Tabula Rasa]

Welcome I love Seitan! I remember when I was a teenager how the youth pastors were always telling us how bad rock music was. I remember one who said that he wouldn't listen to anything that wasn't christian music or glorified god.

And you might remember back around the eighties, Bob Larson writing a book about that there "ebil" rock music. I think he was about the same as that old youth pastor, he thought that anything that wasn't christian music was bad. I also remember some of the more ridiculous stories, like how the metal band Merciful Fate made altar calls to satan at their shows, and AC/DC meant "Antichrist, Devilchild"

 

 

Sorry for the ramble, welcome to freedom!

 

Tab

[LBW]

Ha-ha - when I was growing up my parents didn't mind Christian rock, and even listened to some of it themselves (though they did start getting concerned when I began listening to secular music in my teens), but I remember one of my childhood pastors condemning even Christian rock, saying, "you can't put God's words to the devil's beat!"

[Guest I_Love_Seitan]

Yep, I know what you all mean. I don't live in the US so I had never heard of Bob Larsen till I saw a tv show recently that featured him. Hes just another run of the mill tv evangelist probably getting rich off the poor people who give money to him. They're all the same.

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

Cool posts. Welcome Seitan.

 

I heard much of the stuff posted here but never really paid much attention to it in my former group.

 

I think the group had it pegged on a much different level, and the group understanding came from other non-group sources in this area. Anything that was "syncopated" was alleged to arouse the sexual faculty and thus give rise to temptation. The end result was that it was considered "sinful" to listen to anything other than Classical and Gregorian Chant. I must admit I didn't always follow those rules, but extreme guilt due to mortal sin and potential hellfire was the automatic result when I did not. That and "struggling" with my mother about whether I should or shouldn't listen to "sinful" forms of music.

 

I do know how to sing Gregorian Chant somewhat though . Dunno how useful that is exactly in the "real world". Especially when most of what I learned was dependent on having a Schola.

[Guest I_Love_Seitan]

Thanks for your comment Quid - and nice chatting with you in the chatbox tonight.... I had no idea such groups existed within the catholic church.

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

Same,

 

I love your avatar too btw.

[Guest I_Love_Seitan]

Same,

 

I love your avatar too btw.

 

Thanks! She looks just like me btw.....

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

Same,

 

I love your avatar too btw.

 

Thanks! She looks just like me btw.....

 

Wicked Sexy

[Guest Abby84]

Ha Ha, I remember hearing about backwards lyrics in secular music as well, my mother still has books about the subject! I'm just now discovering music outside the christian genre ( I still love Switchfoot though).

The Mists of Avalon was a great book, I had to read it secret of course and I hid it under my bed along with all my other "pornographic" romance novels. I think that book was the first one to open my mind to the possibility of the pagan origins of christianity.

[Guest I_Love_Seitan]

Ha Ha, I remember hearing about backwards lyrics in secular music as well, my mother still has books about the subject! I'm just now discovering music outside the christian genre ( I still love Switchfoot though).

The Mists of Avalon was a great book, I had to read it secret of course and I hid it under my bed along with all my other "pornographic" romance novels. I think that book was the first one to open my mind to the possibility of the pagan origins of christianity.

 

Yes! Yes! Abby.....that book totally rocked my world at the time, it still does. It is what got the ball rolling in my mind about other ways of thinking about things, even though I mostly suppressed it all for several years. I will be forever grateful to Marion Zimmer Bradley though for opening my eyes...( I was really sad to learn she died a few short years ago....) I am now leaning towards The Craft as a spirituality that works for me....