Tabula Rasa Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I was going to post this in General Theological issues, but it'd attract the fundies like flies there, so here it is, let's see what apologetics they might have. One of the reasons we were told we should be saved, is because of what a life changing experience it supposedly is. We'd have hearts like christ, full of love for our fellow man , wanting to help the poor and downtrodden, heal the sick, feed the hungry etc, etc. Now while there are christian organizations who undertake these things, the world is still in a pretty bad way, so obviously getting "saved" isn't the life changing experience it's claimed to be. So the question for the christians: If becoming a christian is so life changing because you get a heart like christ, why is it two thousand years later, the world isn't paradise. Surely, the non believers seeing how full of love and compassion christians have for their fellow man would make them want to convert immediately if not before? Why isn't the entire world "saved"? Tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 My stance: because Yahweh is a regional deity to start with and somehow he didn't catch on until after much of ancient history has kicked off. Basically, Yahweh allowed the scattering but he did a pretty sloppy job in ensuring that his name would be remembered always and forever. It's just another reason of why I don't think he exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 "Because man is still sinful" ought to be the typical excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazycatlady Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Well, most people aren't really saved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Well, most people aren't really saved... *ding* *ding* *ding* We have a winna! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Because those evil atheists and secular humanists are running the show! Does that qualify for second place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlene Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Tab I was just thinking this very thing this morning!! I had a hypothetical scenario in my mind. Just say the entire world was filled with people who believed in Jesus. Would it be the most beautiful peaceful place ever? No!!!!! Why cause christians still behave the exact same way as we do! Simple. _Churches split due to jealousy, bitterness, greed, pride, etc... _ There is still sexual sin...just look at Ted Haggard,lol _ People still steal from the church money box, or do devious deals under so called xtian premises but they are really dodgy, land sales, real estate etc.. _ Xtians still bitch and gossip, judge each other. _Xtians still run after the material lifestyle of greed, debt, _ I am sure there are xtians out there who battle the sin of kleptomania, pornography(wonder if there would be an industry that would grow in a non-heathen world?), smoking, drinking, domestic abuse, swearing,.. _xtians still commit incest...just look at the mormons...Oh but they aren't true christians...really who is anyone to say? They believe in Jesus... _ Now this is an interesting point to consider. Would there be rape, murder and war?? I wonder...xtians had no problem with it centuries gone..the crusades, inquisitions...Im sure they would find some biblical text to point out gods will somewhere. Just look at Ireland anyway between the Catholics and Protestants...???? _ I imagine there would be lots of different sects proclaiming the truth, splitting off.. Mmm interesting world, but really probably no different to the one we live in now. So xtians please stop with the continual crap I believe in jesus and a relationship with him, just not the church...well who is the church..but your fellow human man who presumably believes in jesus too!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you xtians not see the hypocrisy in that statement. If you want the world to believe in jesus, the only way its gonna happen is if your church, ie your people become normal.. Oh but then it will be xtians aren't perfect, just forgiven. Then what the hell is the reason and purpose of being a freakin xtian in the first place????????????????? Well because you sin and you need your dirty heart mind and body to be washed(????) by the blood of jesus. Can blood really clean anything...gheesh. Life as a xtian is more of an inward struggle. Struggle against guilt, struggle against god, his will, confusion, you are constantly fighting an inward battle with your thoughts, your desires, your lusts...its more painful in it than out!!! And now the judgements on just about everyone else in the world outside your faith...gay people, divorced, sexually wild, sexually transgendered, so much discrimination.....its disgusting. I am embarrassed that I was ever part of that way of thinking. It truly distorts reality for you in a big way. I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 So the question for the christians: If becoming a christian is so life changing because you get a heart like christ, why is it two thousand years later, the world isn't paradise. Surely, the non believers seeing how full of love and compassion christians have for their fellow man would make them want to convert immediately if not before? Why isn't the entire world "saved"? I say because they don't understand Greek philosophy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tabuwn Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I was going to post this in General Theological issues, but it'd attract the fundies like flies there, so here it is, let's see what apologetics they might have. One of the reasons we were told we should be saved, is because of what a life changing experience it supposedly is. We'd have hearts like christ, full of love for our fellow man , wanting to help the poor and downtrodden, heal the sick, feed the hungry etc, etc. Now while there are christian organizations who undertake these things, the world is still in a pretty bad way, so obviously getting "saved" isn't the life changing experience it's claimed to be. So the question for the christians: If becoming a christian is so life changing because you get a heart like christ, why is it two thousand years later, the world isn't paradise. Surely, the non believers seeing how full of love and compassion christians have for their fellow man would make them want to convert immediately if not before? Why isn't the entire world "saved"? Tab I don't know? Maybe because people are far too self absorbed to truly do as Jesus commanded? We are so caught up in our own wants/desires to be bothered with the central theme of Jesus' ministry, which I view to be love. I am extremely frustrated with Christians today, as they do a great injustice to the man called Jesus [iMO]. It's not that I dislike Christianity, I dislike those who claim to be Christian, lol. Tab Tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabula Rasa Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 So the question for the christians: If becoming a christian is so life changing because you get a heart like christ, why is it two thousand years later, the world isn't paradise. Surely, the non believers seeing how full of love and compassion christians have for their fellow man would make them want to convert immediately if not before? Why isn't the entire world "saved"? I say because they don't understand Greek philosophy How does greek philosophy figure into it? If accepting christ into one's heart supposedly wipes the believer's heart clean of it's sinful nature,and christ's influence replaces it, why then, would the believer not always want to do good deeds? Surely, having a portion of the spirit of the creator of the universe inhabiting your soul would be joy beyond understanding, even though one would still inhabit this imperfect world and face it's trials and tribulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabula Rasa Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 I don't know? Maybe because people are far too self absorbed to truly do as Jesus commanded? We are so caught up in our own wants/desires to be bothered with the central theme of Jesus' ministry, which I view to be love. I am extremely frustrated with Christians today, as they do a great injustice to the man called Jesus [iMO]. It's not that I dislike Christianity, I dislike those who claim to be Christian, lol. Tab Tab Good reply Tabuwn and welcome to the boards! It is frustrating isn't it, that the people who say they're christians may talk the talk, but many don't walk the walk, that is try to " Love thy neighbor" and follow the good things christ espoused. But of course, as been noted before, concern for one's fellows didn't start with Christ, though some christians might think they have the patent on it. Since there's another Tab here, guess I'll compromise, you guys can just call me Rasa if you'd like. Or Tabby as one of the posters called me when I hadn't been here for very long.(Nyaow!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlene Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 If accepting christ into one's heart supposedly wipes the believer's heart clean of it's sinful nature,and christ's influence replaces it, why then, would the believer not always want to do good deeds? Surely, having a portion of the spirit of the creator of the universe inhabiting your soul would be joy beyond understanding, even though one would still inhabit this imperfect world and face it's trials and tribulations. Tab, Im not sure a believer's heart is ever cleaned of the sinful nature...there's the nature of the beast. The two supposedly struggle within your heart and brain and your supposed to let the holier one have it's way...therefore you don't always want to do good deeds, cause your sinful nature always struggles with what god wants done in your life. It's meant to be joy beyond understanding..but it's not. You just end up a confused mess, constantly feeling guilty and stressed cause you think bad thoughts and do bad things. Nothing really changes in your life except a higher standard to live to that you always fail at. You are always told you are nothing by the church cause your sinful nature just wants to have its wicked way in you. Now I am out of it, I feel relief honestly. I don't feel that inner struggle anymore of trying to be good and please all the time. Funnily enough my life hasn't changed that dramatically now Im out. I didn't run out and become the mother of all sinners...Im trying to though. My only change of thoughts are that I don't care wether sex is deemed a sin outside of marriage, Im gonna do it anyway. he he. I am now a lot more accepting of people's lifestyles and seem to be non-judgemental about a lot of things now...surely a good vice to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 If accepting christ into one's heart supposedly wipes the believer's heart clean of it's sinful nature,and christ's influence replaces it, why then, would the believer not always want to do good deeds? Surely, having a portion of the spirit of the creator of the universe inhabiting your soul would be joy beyond understanding, even though one would still inhabit this imperfect world and face it's trials and tribulations. That's kinda what I meant by understanding Greek philosophy. Paul speaks in a different way than the other Gospels writers. Paul was the one that spoke about our old self dying, in character; being made perfect in Christ; etc. Sinful nature to Christ was more evident. Hence, if your arm causes you to sin, cut it off. See the difference. Ironically, I was saying that about Greek philosophy as a joke; but it really is true. Another example; the body of Christ. The act of making us all little Godheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 That's kinda what I meant by understanding Greek philosophy. Paul speaks in a different way than the other Gospels writers. Paul was the one that spoke about our old self dying, in character; being made perfect in Christ; etc. Sinful nature to Christ was more evident. Hence, if your arm causes you to sin, cut it off. See the difference. Ironically, I was saying that about Greek philosophy as a joke; but it really is true. Another example; the body of Christ. The act of making us all little Godheads. So, who's guilty of being parasitic now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 So, who's guilty of being parasitic now? Parasitic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 So, who's guilty of being parasitic now? Parasitic? Christians have a tendency to accuse atheists of being moral parasites because we don't believe in a divinely-ordained objective morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Christians have a tendency to accuse of atheists of being moral parasites because we don't believe in a divinely-ordained objective morality. That whole parasite thing really bothers you, huh? I don't say atheists can't be 'good people'; to most Christians it's like saying, I worship Satan, but I'm a good person. The immediate thought is; Devil! I used to drive a cab, third shift. I picked up a crack addict, prostitute one night. She asked me if I liked to screw; then she said " I just smoke crack!, I'm not a bad person! Then she proceeded to the crack hotel, then to the hotel where her client was waiting. It was sad. I think atheists get a bad wrap when it comes to morality because of the simple notion that an atheist doesn't believe in God. Which alot of Christians would interpret as; lawless, uncommitted, not for God but against God. People don't consider philosophy; when they believe that all they are suppose to see in life is written in the Bible. What about doubting Thomas? Jesus didn't say, You heathen, sinner, traitor! Get away from me! That's my Bible view. It all lies in the individual Christian, and their agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 What about doubting Thomas? Jesus didn't say, You heathen, sinner, traitor! Get away from me! That's my Bible view. It all lies in the individual Christian, and their agenda. You're on the right track Yoyo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Christians have a tendency to accuse of atheists of being moral parasites because we don't believe in a divinely-ordained objective morality. That whole parasite thing really bothers you, huh? I don't say atheists can't be 'good people'; to most Christians it's like saying, I worship Satan, but I'm a good person. The immediate thought is; Devil! I used to drive a cab, third shift. I picked up a crack addict, prostitute one night. She asked me if I liked to screw; then she said " I just smoke crack!, I'm not a bad person! Then she proceeded to the crack hotel, then to the hotel where her client was waiting. It was sad. I think atheists get a bad wrap when it comes to morality because of the simple notion that an atheist doesn't believe in God. Which alot of Christians would interpret as; lawless, uncommitted, not for God but against God. People don't consider philosophy; when they believe that all they are suppose to see in life is written in the Bible. What about doubting Thomas? Jesus didn't say, You heathen, sinner, traitor! Get away from me! That's my Bible view. It all lies in the individual Christian, and their agenda. You are right, it really does bother me. I have nothing against you personally, YoYo and you are right about Doubting Thomas. I need to get past that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Because those evil atheists and secular humanists are running the show! Does that qualify for second place? How the fuck are we running the show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 How the fuck are we running the show? All that science and rational thought...it's just eeeeevil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Because those evil atheists and secular humanists are running the show! Does that qualify for second place? How the fuck are we running the show? In the minds of the fundagelicals we be runnin' it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 How the fuck are we running the show? All that science and rational thought...it's just eeeeevil. ...and it's a conspiracy. SHHHHHH!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 How the fuck are we running the show? All that science and rational thought...it's just eeeeevil. ...and it's a conspiracy. SHHHHHH!!!!!!! Here's a depiction of the evil Atheists' agenda from a xian source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Tab I was just thinking this very thing this morning!! I had a hypothetical scenario in my mind. Just say the entire world was filled with people who believed in Jesus. Would it be the most beautiful peaceful place ever? No!!!!! The United States is nearly filled with people who believe in jesus, and we don't live in a more beautiful peaceful place than you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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