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Christians: Why Do You Defend The Hell Teaching?


Not_Scarevangelist
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Oh, I have read dozens of thread in this forum. I can see that Hell is a horrible doctrine, it doesn't make sense, it's awful. Robert Ingersoll tells us: "I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena."

 

This is an interesting statement. And I pretty much agree with Ingersoll.

 

So why the hell there are many people who still defend this teaching? I just can't understand. I have met people who have had their friends and relatives dying without knowing God. Actually, I haven't yet met a single person who doesn't have a mother/father/brother/sister/granny/grandpa/uncle/aunt/cousin/second cousin who has died in unbelief. A friend of mine amazes me - her grandparents died in unbelief and when I say that the doctrine of hell is so horrible, she continues to defend it.

 

Why, I challenge you, Christian fundies!!!

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I honestly think some defend it because it's the only reason they have to hang on to their faith. Their faith is their fire-insurance:

 

"I believe because I don't want to go to hell."

 

If there is no hell then there's really no reason for other people to believe as they do. What is there to be "saved" from?

 

People generally don't want to be alone. They don't want to stand out. They don't want to be different:

 

"I've got 500 people that I hang out with every week and we all believe the same thing. You should too."

 

When someone challenges their beliefs, it's threatening to their entire life and social structure and general worldview.

 

So even if it's horrible, they defend it to the last.

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In my own experience, I believed because I was afraid of the devil and wanted protection (I was about 11 or so). The hell idea seemed to be a good approach for the devil, so it made sense to me at the time. 28 years later I wrote a sermon about "The Terrible Reality Of Hell" to spur other believers to take it very seriously. This is the same behavior pattern that is commonly visible in cults where people join for one reason, and then are introduced to concepts and behaviors that are more and more wacky. These concepts are accepted due to the perceived credibility that their authorities have. So once I felt that I was "saved" I felt the need to follow the rest of the religion, and those parts that seemed shocking or extreme, I just put on a mental shelf so I could deal with them later.

 

Hell played a big part in my deconversion once I decided to study how hell was treated in the Old Testament. I figured that since the OT God seems more vicious that there must be some really nasty references to hell. Now I had already read the Bible through a few times, but couldn't remember any hell verses from the OT (in modern translations). I quickly discovered that there were none. In great surprise, I asked my Jewish sister-in-law about hell in Judaism and she said there isn't one. The closest thing to hell that they have is in the Kaballah, where it is more like purgatory, a place to be punished temporarily before we come back and try again (reincarnation). Then I saw a History Channel presentation on hell, and how it wasn't in the Jewish religion but evolved from the influence of other religions in that area, and the character of the devil was greatly enhanced in the imaginations of believers during the Medieval era.

 

But for those who consider themselves true believers, this kind of information is looked at with great skepticism or outright ridicule, since the scriptures are assumed to be "the word of God". For some people, information is enough to get them to question whether or not what they believe is really true, or whether it is just another of the several thousand cults and religions around the world. However, emotional fulfillment is the main thing that keeps adherents true to their faith, and this is why it often takes more than information to break the hold that religion has on believers. Most church-goers are heavily invested emotionally in their congregations, and it is a hard thing to let go of for the sake of truth. For me it took the shock of a catching a trusted preacher making up stories where before I had believed that his stories were examples of the power of God in the present age. That was the impetus for all the questions I had to come off their mental shelves and shortly thereafter I deconverted entirely. Truth was and is more important to me than the relationships I had in church. I also bristled at the idea that I had been following a 1st Century cult, since I was well read on cults, so leaving became easier as I saw the similarities.

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Oh, I have read dozens of thread in this forum. I can see that Hell is a horrible doctrine, it doesn't make sense, it's awful. Robert Ingersoll tells us: "I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena."

 

This is an interesting statement. And I pretty much agree with Ingersoll.

 

So why the hell there are many people who still defend this teaching? I just can't understand. I have met people who have had their friends and relatives dying without knowing God. Actually, I haven't yet met a single person who doesn't have a mother/father/brother/sister/granny/grandpa/uncle/aunt/cousin/second cousin who has died in unbelief. A friend of mine amazes me - her grandparents died in unbelief and when I say that the doctrine of hell is so horrible, she continues to defend it.

 

Why, I challenge you, Christian fundies!!!

 

I want to plagiarize and change your Ingersoll quote.

 

"I do believe in justice,and so do you. If you did, you would sleep more than one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will understand it is relevant. A man who believes in justice and sleeps in created governed, and moral peace has the heart of one that believes justice is necessary for peace and sanity among human creation"

 

 

:grin:

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You guys mind if I throw in my two cents?

 

Hell is not justice, but vengeance, revenge, and cruelty. They are not related to what us moderns see as justice.

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Probably it has... using fear tactics to unite people...

 

Then that would imply a religious justice, of the concept of Hell and Heaven in a spiritual, eternal matter. Compared to prison or freedom for obedience in the physical world. Whether it's made up or real, to me the concept of Hell affected humanity as a whole. One question would be, Would a non existent concept of Hell have made humanity different? I say from looking at the history of humanity, yes. In the physical world, without justice, criminals would roam free. Right?

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Let's ask the question otherwise...

 

How would the world have been affected if Univeral reconciliation hadn't been banned after the first 500 years after Christ lived?

 

We need to clear out this question: Was hell necessary?

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Let's ask the question otherwise...

 

How would the world have been affected if Univeral reconciliation hadn't been banned after the first 500 years after Christ lived?

 

We need to clear out this question: Was hell necessary?

 

From what I understood. It was completely debunked in the 1600's by Catholics. Necessary is a strong word, as I am just a feeble, finite creature; and not the omni-everything. But, I think the concept of Hell affected overall humanity.

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Necessary is a strong word, as I am just a feeble, finite creature; and not the omni-everything.

 

This is a pat answer. The Bible tells you to defend a sound doctrine, you probably know this.

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Probably it has... using fear tactics to unite people...

 

Then that would imply a religious justice, of the concept of Hell and Heaven in a spiritual, eternal matter. Compared to prison or freedom for obedience in the physical world. Whether it's made up or real, to me the concept of Hell affected humanity as a whole. One question would be, Would a non existent concept of Hell have made humanity different? I say from looking at the history of humanity, yes. In the physical world, without justice, criminals would roam free. Right?

 

Oh no, not this shit again.

 

Okay, let's review. YOU CANNOT COMPARE CHRISTIANITY'S TEACHING OF ETERNAL TORMENT TO HUMAN SOCIETY'S SET UP OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE. AT MOST, A CRIMINAL WILL LOSE HIS/HER LIFE AND THAT'S THE END OF IT. CHRISTIANITY HOWEVER TEACHES THAT HUMAN BEING WILL WRITHE ETERNALLY IN TORMENT, NO REPRIEVE, EVER. AND THIS STRANGE "JUSTICE" INCLUDES NOT JUST THOSE DEEMED BAD OR CRIMINAL BY HUMAN SOCIETY, BUT ANY HUMAN BEING WHO FAILS TO ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS LORD AND SAVIOR.

 

Sorry for shouting but I get so sick of these stupid fucking lame ass Christian defenses of their most vicious doctrine.

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Questions for the "Christians" here. Here is an article about a 16 year old Iranian girl who was executed for "adultery".

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5217424.stm

 

After enduring several episodes of punishment by the so-called "moral police", which included imprisonment, lashes and.....rape, this girl was eventually executed. A hellish life indeed.

 

Now my question for our Christian friends; does this girl deserve an eternity of torment?

 

Its a simple question; it requires only a "yes" or a "no". What say ye, Christians?

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Probably it has... using fear tactics to unite people...

Then that would imply a religious justice, of the concept of Hell and Heaven in a spiritual, eternal matter. Compared to prison or freedom for obedience in the physical world. Whether it's made up or real, to me the concept of Hell affected humanity as a whole. One question would be, Would a non existent concept of Hell have made humanity different? I say from looking at the history of humanity, yes. In the physical world, without justice, criminals would roam free. Right?

 

Oh no, not this shit again.

Okay, let's review. YOU CANNOT COMPARE CHRISTIANITY'S TEACHING OF ETERNAL TORMENT TO HUMAN SOCIETY'S SET UP OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE. AT MOST, A CRIMINAL WILL LOSE HIS/HER LIFE AND THAT'S THE END OF IT.

 

It's only eternal torture if you believe in eternal life.

 

CHRISTIANITY HOWEVER TEACHES THAT HUMAN BEING WILL WRITHE ETERNALLY IN TORMENT, NO REPRIEVE, EVER. AND THIS STRANGE "JUSTICE" INCLUDES NOT JUST THOSE DEEMED BAD OR CRIMINAL BY HUMAN SOCIETY, BUT ANY HUMAN BEING WHO FAILS TO ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS LORD AND SAVIOR.

 

Yeah, that's how most Christians sum it up; as to why they die trying to tell people about 'Jesus' :dumbo:

 

Sorry for shouting but I get so sick of these stupid fucking lame ass Christian defenses of their most vicious doctrine.

 

It wasn't a defense you moron it was a discussion about Hell in a thread. Go take a shower.

 

:Wendywhatever:

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Necessary is a strong word, as I am just a feeble, finite creature; and not the omni-everything.

 

This is a pat answer. The Bible tells you to defend a sound doctrine, you probably know this.

 

Which doctrine? Catholics? Protestant? Jewish? Muslim?

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It wasn't a defense you moron it was a discussion about Hell in a thread. Go take a shower.

 

Yes, it was a defense. It might not be a defense you hold personally, but it is one that countless Xtians hold. But why if you don't hold it would you corrupt Ingersoll's great quote? Idiot.

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But, I think the concept of Hell affected overall humanity.

What about Buddhists, Hindus, pagans, etc? Do they believe in Christian/Muslim Hell?

 

Hans, The portion that do believe in the Hell concept is what I think 'affected to some degree' ( saying that as a possibility, not as a fact) overall general humanity. Just my opinion. Just as the opinion of Greek influence to Christianity. Same difference.

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Hans, The portion that do believe in the Hell concept is what I think 'affected to some degree' ( saying that as a possibility, not as a fact) overall general humanity. Just my opinion. Just as the opinion of Greek influence to Christianity. Same difference.

Sure. A large part of humanity was and is affected by the theology. However, I can't say if it was to the better or not, since other societies managed to become civilized without it.

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YoYo: But, I think the concept of Hell affected overall humanity.

 

Hell never stood alone as a threat to disobeying rules and laws, religious or secular. There always were real consequences for law breakers. Hell wasn't effective enough to stop criminal behavior then and now.

Was hell's effect positive or negative? I think more negative than positive. Criminals disregard everything to get what they desire. It's the sensitive, thoughtful people who were damaged by it.

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It wasn't a defense you moron it was a discussion about Hell in a thread. Go take a shower.

 

Yes, it was a defense. Idiot.

 

:grin: How you doing there Nightflight.

 

Alright. Instead of virtual yelling, and name calling; What position was I defending from my previous posts?

 

Last checked, I was stating that the 'concept' of Hell had in my opinion affected humanity to some degree. Thats all :twitch:

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It wasn't a defense you moron it was a discussion about Hell in a thread. Go take a shower.

 

Yes, it was a defense. Idiot.

 

:grin: How you doing there Nightflight.

 

Alright. Instead of virtual yelling, and name calling; What position was I defending from my previous posts?

 

Last checked, I was stating that the 'concept' of Hell had in my opinion affected humanity to some degree. Thats all :twitch:

 

Okay, sorry if I misunderstood. You just repeated the fundy argument so well, it seemed like the real thing, maybe even a genuine Poe.

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YoYo: But, I think the concept of Hell affected overall humanity.

Hell wasn't effective enough to stop criminal behavior then and now.

 

That's an opinion. On a wider range than that, there are so many billion Christians/ Muslims influencing each other by Hell doctrine. Personal example, my kids. They attend kids church on Sunday, Awanas. Two of them were fighting the other day and one said to another, you better quit or you will go to hell, the bad place. I told them not to talk like that :shrug:

 

Anyway, even in the smallest of ways as we don't attend church like the good Christians say we should. Point is it's being taught and for a child it can be influential even up to adulthood as a fearful thing. I also think it could had/have prevented behaviors that would cause criminal activity.

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I also think it could had/have prevented behaviors that would cause criminal activity.

 

YoYo: Quite true. It could have prevented such behaviors. But do a quick google search on: "Doctrine of Hell terrorizes", check the other threads here. Obviously it doesn't bring joy to all people.

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