Big.blue.nation Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I got in touch with an old friend of mine who I served with in the Navigators while in the military. Hadn't talked to the guy in like 10 years. Had a lot of experiences together while in the ministry and were great friends. Reason I bring this up is that I need to get something off my chest. He asked me how my relationship with Jesus was doing and told him he might be shocked, but had become an atheist. Well anyway, he didn't get mad, but did shame me and in his shock put this guilt trip on me. He then said, "Hey, I could choose not to have anything to do with you, but won't, it's just not me and will pray for you". I didn't get mad at the time, but afterward kind of pondered what he said and saw some of what I despise so much about Xianity. He was nice about it, but how dare he put that divide between us, like i'm some sort of sinful apostate and look down on me! This attitude that pervades most of Christendom is one of the reasons there are so many walls in this world today. "Oh, you're an outsider, so I must now watch how I associate with you". It's indirectly implying that their faith is somehow threatened by the disease of the un-believing. How dare they look down on humankind in their elitism and judge "other" people, who although after honest objective doubt may not "believe" in some invisible "god" in heaven, but strive to live good lives anyway! Ok, I feel better now after that rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 It almost sounds like he was threatening you when he said, "Hey, I could choose not to have anything to do with you, but won't, it's just not me and will pray for you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 It almost sounds like he was threatening you when he said, "Hey, I could choose not to have anything to do with you, but won't, it's just not me and will pray for you." My theory is that he was in a state of shock like you said, and his mouth engaged beforehis brain. Instead of wisely remaining silent, he spewed out this BS rather than feel like he wasn't defending the faith. It is sort of like a parrot repeating things automatically. I wouldn't take it too seriously, but watch his further behavior in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I got in touch with an old friend of mine who I served with in the Navigators while in the military. Hadn't talked to the guy in like 10 years. Had a lot of experiences together while in the ministry and were great friends. Reason I bring this up is that I need to get something off my chest. He asked me how my relationship with Jesus was doing and told him he might be shocked, but had become an atheist. Well anyway, he didn't get mad, but did shame me and in his shock put this guilt trip on me. He then said, "Hey, I could choose not to have anything to do with you, but won't, it's just not me and will pray for you". I didn't get mad at the time, but afterward kind of pondered what he said and saw some of what I despise so much about Xianity. He was nice about it, but how dare he put that divide between us, like i'm some sort of sinful apostate and look down on me! This attitude that pervades most of Christendom is one of the reasons there are so many walls in this world today. "Oh, you're an outsider, so I must now watch how I associate with you". It's indirectly implying that their faith is somehow threatened by the disease of the un-believing. How dare they look down on humankind in their elitism and judge "other" people, who although after honest objective doubt may not "believe" in some invisible "god" in heaven, but strive to live good lives anyway! Ok, I feel better now after that rant. I agree 100% with the emotion you express. Nevertheless, just to keep things on the level, by definition you are a sinful apostate. And the rules are to not associate with the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Christians always feel like they should pray for the non-believers so we can find jeebus. However, the praying thing kind of insults me. It used to not bother me and thought, "well, do as you wish" but it's kind of like if I told them I'm going to pray to my voodoo gods that you find the mighty dead chicken on your doorstep that brings you luck. How about you don't do anything for me and I won't do anything for you. Unless of course your prayers include cash. The pray on brother! Pray On! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Yes I lost a few friends as well, and it was by their choice not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I’m home with a cold and I feel like stirring the pot… What about ex-Christian elitism? Hmm? How about it? Don’t we think ourselves better them because we stopped buying the BS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.blue.nation Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 My Dad had a really good point on his blog the other day, which reads as follows and think sums up the tradgedy of the eliteism that exists in many churches: It is sad to me that some people spend there whole life chasing after the pie in the sky. Going into huge ornate buildings that they have erected to honor what they think is God. Looking down on others who don't believe everything that they have interpreted as the truth. When in reality they are building monuments to themselves and glorifying their beliefs. Not realizing that they have turned there back on humanity, and don't understand the lessons that their sacred books are trying to teach them. Most of the writings have been twisted and some even eliminated because they didn't fit the objective of those in control of the time. People are easier to control when they are kept ignorant and afraid. People are afraid to live there lives to the fullest. They can't see the beauty all around them. They can't help others because they don't believe in the same thing, or they are different. Have they forgotten that Jesus (Who they believe is God) spent most of his life, with what was considered the scum of the earth. The poor, the sick, the drunks, the whores and the other sinners of that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 What about ex-Christian elitism? Hmm? How about it? Don’t we think ourselves better them because we stopped buying the BS? Maybe it is something we ought to keep in mind. I believed it once myself and take responsibility for it. I would not presume to try to deconvert someone. There are many reasons people believe Christianity, and also many versions of the religion. At the same time, people who come on here trying to reconvert me are going to get a response they may not like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessicaSideways Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Christians always feel like they should pray for the non-believers so we can find jeebus. However, the praying thing kind of insults me. It used to not bother me and thought, "well, do as you wish" but it's kind of like if I told them I'm going to pray to my voodoo gods that you find the mighty dead chicken on your doorstep that brings you luck. How about you don't do anything for me and I won't do anything for you. Unless of course your prayers include cash. The pray on brother! Pray On! I agree. I find it to be condescending, pretentious, sanctimonous and self-righteous. Like they are saying that we're right, you're wrong, but we hope that you'll figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I’m home with a cold and I feel like stirring the pot… Heh, one of the reasons I like you. What about ex-Christian elitism? Hmm? How about it? Don’t we think ourselves better them because we stopped buying the BS? Sure sounds like it sometimes. People even tend to forget that they were Christians themselves, often for a large portion of their lives. Shouldn't be hard to be understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessicaSideways Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 What about ex-Christian elitism? Hmm? How about it? Don’t we think ourselves better them because we stopped buying the BS? Yes, but we need to help inject a healthy dose of critical thinking in these people's lives. Ridiculing and making a joke out of their religion is the only way to get people to stop taking it so damn seriously and according it respect that it doesn't deserve. Xianity is a dangerous and deadly messianic cult that warps the minds of it's followers, let's not forget this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Christians always feel like they should pray for the non-believers so we can find jeebus. However, the praying thing kind of insults me. It used to not bother me and thought, "well, do as you wish" but it's kind of like if I told them I'm going to pray to my voodoo gods that you find the mighty dead chicken on your doorstep that brings you luck. How about you don't do anything for me and I won't do anything for you. Unless of course your prayers include cash. The pray on brother! Pray On! I agree. I find it to be condescending, pretentious, sanctimonous and self-righteous. Like they are saying that we're right, you're wrong, but we hope that you'll figure it out. Once I asked my sister to pray for me in the privacy of her closet. I put it to her as a test of faith. Do you believe in prayer? Do you trust the Holy Spirit? I asked her to pray instead of writing all those letters she was sending me. Now if she were the type to pray on the telephone, I would NOT have made this proposal. Yes, from evangelicals, offers of prayer are insults. It's a weapon. So the left and right hemispheres of their brains have these great relationships. Wonderful. So do mine. I don't give them special names and I don't have them praying to each other in either public or private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I’m home with a cold and I feel like stirring the pot… What about ex-Christian elitism? Hmm? How about it? Don’t we think ourselves better them because we stopped buying the BS? Well, I certainly do, but that's nothing to do with the fact I no longer believe. I'm just better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 He asked me how my relationship with Jesus was doing Why didn't he ask "jesus" this same question? Why didn't he threaten to break-up with "jesus" for becoming aBig.blue.nationist? Seems he lays a lot of blame on one side of this so-called relationship. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturalSelection Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 He then said, "Hey, I could choose not to have anything to do with you, but won't, it's just not me and will pray for you". Well you could choose not to have anything to do with him either since you now have higher moral standards than those espoused in the bible.....but it's just not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Yes, there is elitism on both sides, but I think the believers are way out in front of the freethinkers on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Elitism is in the eyes of the have-nots. Remember when we were christians...and the christians we perceived as 'holier-than-thou' before we'd even deconverted? In my case, the "fellow christians" I viewed in this way were very talented musically. They could sing or play piano...and so were often doing the singing and music during service. This made them more involved in the church than I. I did not have this kind of talent, and I admit I envied them. In this way...I was a have-not. Remember when we were still christians and we met someone who believed something completely different (or not at all)? They had a freedom, a confidence...they seemed happier with their choice than I was with mine...so it was easy to see them as the "worldly elitists" who would be swept aside for the "meek" like me (though that wasn't a particularly "meek" sentiment, and was super-saturatedly hypocritical). In this way...I was a have-not again. When looking back at christiantiy....again I see the 'holier than thou'...but it's not something I envy...or even want for myself anymore. I am a willing have-not this time, and could and would simply leave christians be, and pity them in their prison. However, unlike the prior two stages of life where what I did mattered little if at all to those I envied...now these people want me to HAVE HAVE HAVE! They are elitists again. The only difference is I want no part of them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Yes, there is elitism on both sides, but I think the believers are way out in front of the freethinkers on this one. I'm not sure. Some of those new atheist "brights" are awfully bloody arrogant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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