Why I Am Stupid And Lnc Is Smart

[Ouroboros]

It's a czech brand of pilsner. It's pretty good.

I should look for it at the import store then.

 

Personally I'm into dark or heavy beers. Hence my Arrogant Bastard (logo copyright infringement) avatar. It's made in San Diego, and next month I'll be going there with friends and my oldest son.

[agnosticator]

It's a czech brand of pilsner. It's pretty good.

I should look for it at the import store then.

 

Personally I'm into dark or heavy beers. Hence my Arrogant Bastard (logo copyright infringement) avatar. It's made in San Diego, and next month I'll be going there with friends and my oldest son.

 

My tastebuds don't handle bitter well, but I willingly try brands of different stripes. Any recommendations?

[Ouroboros]

My tastebuds don't handle bitter well, but I willingly try brands of different stripes. Any recommendations?

Have you tried Heffenweizen? It's a bit heavier beer, and more hoppy. There are different kinds of heavier beers you know. The ones with more hop, and the ones which are darker, and the ones with spice or herbal hints. I'm a beer connoisseur. The Arrogant Bastard isn't so bitter, but rather more on the sweet and somewhat flavored side. It got hints of cherry, IMO. Another one I like is Russian Stouts (several smaller breweries make them). Especially the Old Rasputin: Russian Imperial Stout. It's US made, but not for the faint of heart. link

 

We've talked about maybe get the equipment and make our home brew. We'll see.

[shantonu]

My tastebuds don't handle bitter well, but I willingly try brands of different stripes. Any recommendations?

Have you tried Heffenweizen? It's a bit heavier beer, and more hoppy. There are different kinds of heavier beers you know. The ones with more hop, and the ones which are darker, and the ones with spice or herbal hints. I'm a beer connoisseur. The Arrogant Bastard isn't so bitter, but rather more on the sweet and somewhat flavored side. It got hints of cherry, IMO. Another one I like is Russian Stouts (several smaller breweries make them). Especially the Old Rasputin: Russian Imperial Stout. It's US made, but not for the faint of heart.

 

We've talked about maybe get the equipment and make our home brew. We'll see.

 

I can't stand beer really. I go for rum though. Swedish women are beautiful, at least so I've been lead to believe. What made you leave the land of Saabs and Antia Ekberg?

[agnosticator]

Cool, thanks Hans. I gotta try your recommendations, since you're a connoisseur.

 

Oh I've heard of Heff. Never had it though.

[Ouroboros]

I can't stand beer really. I go for rum though. Swedish women are beautiful, at least so I've been lead to believe. What made you leave the land of Saabs and Antia Ekberg?

Taxes and work. I tried to get a new start, get a better job, and make more money. But now it seems this place is going the same path to over-taxation of the constituents. And also the frigging cold winters and rainy summers. It's beautiful there though, and very nice people. It's hard to start and run a business there, or at least it was, they changed a lot of tax laws after we left (of course), so I suspect it's a bit better.

[Ouroboros]

Cool, thanks Hans. I gotta try your recommendations, since you're a connoisseur.

 

Oh I've heard of Heff. Never had it though.

Please do, and let me know. Some of these beers are hard to find. You sometimes have to go to a specialty store, like BeMo's.

[Skankboy]

the way that we know much of what we know, that certain things are objectively wrong for all people at all times. For example, I believe that it is alway wrong for people to torture babies, or to murder, or to be racist.

 

This is where his argument falls apart for me. With very little research I could find examples of cultures where these activities were encouraged if not sanctified by the culture. In other words, these actions were morally acceptable and so can't be objective.

 

Toture babies - circumsicion, sacrifices, exposure, etc.

Murder - war and executions (both are state-sanctioned murder), exposure, human sacrifice, etc.

Racism - this is the weakest of them all. Racism (or the "us" and "them" mentality) has been encouraged throughout most cultures throughout most of history.

 

Anyways... that's my take.

 

[Ouroboros]

Here's an interesting thought, what do we believe to be accepted in society today, which in the future could be considered immoral and wrong?

 

Maybe one or some of these:

 

- animals as food (only manufactured proteins allowed)

 

- driving polluting cars (but non polluting cars accepted)

 

- having sex with a person under 21 (new age limit for statutory rape)

 

Just some wild thoughts. Will our children's-children look back to us and call us "savages?"

[Skankboy]

I imagine so Han. Most would consider the gladitorial games of ancient Rome to be "barbaric" but I'm sure future generations might feel the same way about some of our habits.

 

The examples you gave are great. Consider how much the "age of consent" has changed throughout history. Animals as food and polluting cars I can see both as being seen as "immoral" in the future (though I'll be damned if I'm going to give them up any time soon... animals is tasty!).

[Ouroboros]

I imagine so Han. Most would consider the gladitorial games of ancient Rome to be "barbaric" but I'm sure future generations might feel the same way about some of our habits.

 

The examples you gave are great. Consider how much the "age of consent" has changed throughout history. Animals as food and polluting cars I can see both as being seen as "immoral" in the future (though I'll be damned if I'm going to give them up any time soon... animals is tasty!).

I'm a bigot, and I know it. I love animals, both as friends, and on the sandwich.

[agnosticator]

I hope you don't eat dog meat in front of your dog Hans.

[Ouroboros]

I hope you don't eat dog meat in front of your dog Hans.

No, that would be way too cruel... (I never had dog--to eat--and since I have three dogs--alive--I don't know, it would be too close to me emotionally.)

[agnosticator]

I hope you don't eat dog meat in front of your dog Hans.

No, that would be way too cruel... (I never had dog--to eat--and since I have three dogs--alive--I don't know, it would be too close to me emotionally.)

 

Maybe it's because you aren't chinese.

 

Yeah, I could NEVER eat dog meat. I've always had dogs since I was a wee lad. They make better companions than most people!

[Neon Genesis]

- having sex with a person under 21 (new age limit for statutory rape)

 

Just some wild thoughts. Will our children's-children look back to us and call us "savages?"

Isn't the age of consent for sex in Sweden 15? I wonder if Sweden has less crime than the U.S., what their crime rate in regards to rape is like compared to the U.S.

[Ouroboros]

Isn't the age of consent for sex in Sweden 15?

You got me there friend... I don't remember. I think it's 18 there too, but I'm not sure.

 

I wonder if Sweden has less crime than the U.S., what their crime rate in regards to rape is like compared to the U.S.

They have less crime, or at least they used to. And their penalties are a walk in the park compared to US prisons. Not only that, they have less violence inside the prisons, from what I remember. But, it might be different now. Things change. I'd say culture and social attitude is the main cause. People expect people to behave right.

[Neon Genesis]

You got me there friend... I don't remember. I think it's 18 there too, but I'm not sure.

I was reading the Wikipedia article about LGBT rights in Sweden and they had a section about the age of consent.

Homosexuality was legalised in 1944, the age of consent at the time after 1944 was 18. In 1987, a law against sex in gay saunas and prostitution was created to prohibit the spread of HIV, but this was repealed in 2004. Since 1972, there has been an equal age of consent set at 15, regardless of sexual orientation and/or gender. Homosexuality was filed as an illness until 1979.

[Ouroboros]

To tell you the truth, I don't remember that I ever knew that, but maybe I did... I have just been in US too long. But that explains why there wasn't any issues with the ages and dating when I grew up.

[Looking4Answers]

This thread has been an interesting discussion (even including a discussion on beer ).

 

I wanted to react to the following comment:

 

This is where his argument falls apart for me. With very little research I could find examples of cultures where these activities were encouraged if not sanctified by the culture. In other words, these actions were morally acceptable and so can't be objective.

 

Toture babies - circumsicion, sacrifices, exposure, etc.

Murder - war and executions (both are state-sanctioned murder), exposure, human sacrifice, etc.

Racism - this is the weakest of them all. Racism (or the "us" and "them" mentality) has been encouraged throughout most cultures throughout most of history.

 

Anyways... that's my take.

 

Now, I am not schooled in philosophy, ethics and the like, so I am only going to react to this to see what answers are presented. Despite what is said here, I still think that most people would find the torture of babies wrong, as well as things like murder, etc. So, for me, this would make up a base-line morality that most cultures would find in common with each other. However, because people think and reason (though not always correctly, to be sure!) we can override these morals. For example, one culture could very well take the "natural" idea (or moral) of valuing children for granted, but reason that the children of the enemy do not deserve such treatment and, thus, offer a conquered enemies children as a sacrifice to their gods. A man may dearly love his child, but be led to believe that by cutting off the foreskin he will ensure that his child is favored by his deity and, thus, ensure a better life for him. This does not mean that the "moral" of valuing a child is not common to man, but that other concepts are "reasoned" into the collective of a culture an these reasons can cause people to do things that, to the objective observer, seem immoral but, on some level, seem perfectly moral within the concepts of the culture itself.

 

Murder was mentioned and, yes, I think that it would be a common moral among people to agree that murder is wrong. However, people can find reasons to go against that basic moral. If one loves his family and loves his village and another village is planning to attack and destroy both your village and your family, then the basic moral of not murdering is somewhat transformed at this point. It becomes something like, don't let them murder (my family, my friends, etc) and, as a result, a call to war.

 

We also know that men's minds can become dulled to horrible things. A serial killer may have been sicked by his first murder, but after several more, that sickness is transformed into something else. Just because this is the case does not mean that the moral of not murdering is not common to men. It simply means that the serial killer ignored the moral and then became addicted to the killing just as an alcoholic becomes addicted to the alcohol. This may explain why it is typical for a serial killer to, eventually, want to get caught. He can't stop himself because of his addiction and, thus, requires someone to get him and end his killing spree. All along the killer has been fighting against his inner moral.

 

As I said, these are my thoughts. I just don't think that just because we can see many, many examples of murder, baby torture, etc, throughout history that we can conclude that there is not a common moral against murder, etc, among men.

 

Thoughts?

[MathGeek]

LNC could flatten me in a debate. Guy's a regular logical deconstructionist. I don't even know how to set up an argument and make it into a fallacy of beard or whatever else he's using today.

[Skankboy]

L4A,

 

I can certainly see where you are coming from, but I think the biggest distinction is when the majority of the population of these cultures not only condone, but encourage these acts that makes them "moral" in the eyes of that culture.

 

does not mean that the "moral" of valuing a child is not common to man, but that other concepts are "reasoned" into the collective of a culture an these reasons can cause people to do things that, to the objective observer, seem immoral but, on some level, seem perfectly moral within the concepts of the culture itself.

 

I don't believe in the existence of an "objective observer". What a society decides is moral, is what is moral for that society. If anything I think your argument speaks even stronger for relative morality than anything.

 

As I said, these are my thoughts. I just don't think that just because we can see many, many examples of murder, baby torture, etc, throughout history that we can conclude that there is not a common moral against murder, etc, among men.

 

I'm sorry, but I just don't see this when I look through history. If the vast majority of a culture decides that a type of murder is OK (war, execution, etc) it doesn't change the nature of the act. It only changes the justification of the act. If there was some kind of embedded "objective" morality, then only the mentally ill would be able to go against it without huge provications.

[Ouroboros]

LNC could flatten me in a debate. Guy's a regular logical deconstructionist. I don't even know how to set up an argument and make it into a fallacy of beard or whatever else he's using today.

He's wrong many times, but it's impossible to debate him because he's annoyingly stubborn he's right. He misrepresented several things in both philosophy and science, and I just don't care to correct him, because he doesn't get the concepts. He throws out "fallacy" whenever he can, even when it is not accurate, because he only have one goal: to confuse you enough, and get you to admit that you don't know, so he can claim he knows more than you, and he's going to tell you the "ultimate truth" about Jesus, and end with a "gotcha" just because you couldn't fixate on the points where he was wrong. It's a bit like verbal judo.

[agnosticator]

My tastebuds don't handle bitter well, but I willingly try brands of different stripes. Any recommendations?

Have you tried Heffenweizen? It's a bit heavier beer, and more hoppy. There are different kinds of heavier beers you know. The ones with more hop, and the ones which are darker, and the ones with spice or herbal hints. I'm a beer connoisseur. The Arrogant Bastard isn't so bitter, but rather more on the sweet and somewhat flavored side. It got hints of cherry, IMO. Another one I like is Russian Stouts (several smaller breweries make them). Especially the Old Rasputin: Russian Imperial Stout. It's US made, but not for the faint of heart. link

 

Back to the continuing saga of beer....

I finally found a heffeweizen. It's brand is Weihenstephaner, hefe weissbier. The name is quite a mouthful. I can't describe the taste, probably because I never really tasted hops before. But I liked it. It wasn't bitter. I would get it again. I have yet to find the others you mention, but Binny's beverage depot could order them for me. Thanks again.

[Ouroboros]

Back to the continuing saga of beer....

I finally found a heffeweizen. It's brand is Weihenstephaner, hefe weissbier. The name is quite a mouthful. I can't describe the taste, probably because I never really tasted hops before. But I liked it. It wasn't bitter. I would get it again. I have yet to find the others you mention, but Binny's beverage depot could order them for me. Thanks again.

What's interesting is that some of the beers can be extremely filling, almost like having a whole lunch. And some are better before food, some during, and some after, of course.

 

There's one expensive beer that I just discovered, and it's very good.

 

It's called Samuel Adam's Chocolate Bock. Yes, it's a chocolate flavored. But it's just a hint of it, but oh, it's a very delicious beer... but it's frigging $15 bucks for a bottle (large bottle though, not the regular size)! (But that isn't the most expensive one I ever had. I had a champagne beer which costs about 30-40 bucks... I heard from one of my beer-lover friends that there is some super-limited beer that costs like 100-200. ... ... eek...)

 

 

As I said, I'm a connoisseur. Most of the brands I drink are lot less of course, and I have a Bevmo card and get discounts. And I don't drink so much during the week, maybe a half of a bottle, so one lasts two days. But Friday comes I have maybe one or two of those giant bottles.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the Heffen experience. It's a very good starting point, and it's easier to find.

[Neon Genesis]

He's wrong many times, but it's impossible to debate him because he's annoyingly stubborn he's right. He misrepresented several things in both philosophy and science, and I just don't care to correct him, because he doesn't get the concepts. He throws out "fallacy" whenever he can, even when it is not accurate, because he only have one goal: to confuse you enough, and get you to admit that you don't know, so he can claim he knows more than you, and he's going to tell you the "ultimate truth" about Jesus, and end with a "gotcha" just because you couldn't fixate on the points where he was wrong. It's a bit like verbal judo.

Did he ever finally grasp the concept that atheism is not a belief?