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I like to have the TV on for noise and I came across an episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit which involved some Hescidic (sp) Jews and the question came up did they have the right idea because the case involved a young teen rapist who watched a lot of porn and raped some younger kids (this is the shortened version of the story). It made me think about these societies like the Hescidics and the Amish where they believe that repressing sexuality and the world itself is a good thing. On one side they do have less worries, but then again these people pretty much have their lives decided for them from what they can wear to how they should eat or use (Amish can't use things made of certain, modern materials). The women seem to have it worse IMHO because the only option they have is to be housewives and while there is nothing wrong with that, it's not fair if it's your only option in life. I guess it's just that uncertainty comes with freedom, what do you guys thing?

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I think it is a misconception that the abandonment of technology makes life easier.

 

Closeted societies may look peaceful on the surface, but once you break through that there is a lot of tension. They have the same or if not worse petty issues everyone else does.

 

I think we would be better off if we learned to take time away from all of our electronic toys and enjoy simple conversation or taking a nice walk outside, but I do not advocate flushing it all down the toilet for a dream of an agrarian utopia that does not exist.

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I think if you looked closer in these communities you would find just as much, if not more sexual abuse, domestic violence, emotional abuse and everything else under the sun. Yes they look tranquil and peaceful, forsaking the modern world, but as we all know, materialism does not the human nature make. Regardless of how far you try to hide from it, run from it or squash it, human nature, the gamut of desires and dark recesses in our minds will always surface. You can never get rid of the greed, lust and depravity of mankind. Its like whitewashing a wall. It looks nice holy and white on the outside, but underneath well just normal everyday human nature. In these communities too when you suppress normal functions as humans you just end up with abnormal behaviours, as we can probably attest to when we were repressed in the christian faith, well I can anyway.

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I think if you looked closer in these communities you would find just as much, if not more sexual abuse, domestic violence, emotional abuse and everything else under the sun. Yes they look tranquil and peaceful, forsaking the modern world, but as we all know, materialism does not the human nature make. Regardless of how far you try to hide from it, run from it or squash it, human nature, the gamut of desires and dark recesses in our minds will always surface. You can never get rid of the greed, lust and depravity of mankind. Its like whitewashing a wall. It looks nice holy and white on the outside, but underneath well just normal everyday human nature. In these communities too when you suppress normal functions as humans you just end up with abnormal behaviours, as we can probably attest to when we were repressed in the christian faith, well I can anyway.

 

I remember seeing a news segment on the dark side of the Amish community. Some of the physical and sexual abuse stories were quite surprising. It's the old saying you attract what you fear.

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Yeah, well, the Hasidim aren't all "nicey nice" over in Israel either (I'm pretty sure they were the ones literally throwing stones at archaeologists...and one another...I believe they still uphold those laws). The new version is more mystic than the "traditional" version (though it essentially tries to paint itself with the same brush) and, as I recall, they get special consideration under the Israeli government which is why I understand they are about the only ones seeing growth in Judaism over there.

 

I don't know about the Amish but Ruby could sure comment on (what appears to me) the similar Mennonite horse and buggy community compared to where she is now. I mean she hasn't gone from tending fields to attending raves (as far as I know :HaHa: ) but it would still be informative.

 

mwc

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Yeah, well, the Hasidim aren't all "nicey nice" over in Israel either (I'm pretty sure they were the ones literally throwing stones at archaeologists...and one another...I believe they still uphold those laws). The new version is more mystic than the "traditional" version (though it essentially tries to paint itself with the same brush) and, as I recall, they get special consideration under the Israeli government which is why I understand they are about the only ones seeing growth in Judaism over there.

 

I don't know about the Amish but Ruby could sure comment on (what appears to me) the similar Mennonite horse and buggy community compared to where she is now. I mean she hasn't gone from tending fields to attending raves (as far as I know :HaHa: ) but it would still be informative.

 

mwc

If you walk through certain parts of Jerusalem, ie. Mea Shearim and you are a lady and not wearing clothing that fully covers you, you are likely to have stones thrown at you too..no, not nice. I would bet you anything those communities would have high rates of domestic violence...that simmering rage. Any religion that degrades women to servantile manners I suspect would shelter abuse in some form or another. In the Islamic faith, there is no doubt unspeakable abuse of women in their homes, restricted from society. Dont even get me started on the muslims with the honor killings either when a woman is raped, or seen fraternizing with a man not her husband. Muslim woman are not allowed to walk the streets on their own, or to be seen without a chaperone, ie. another woman. I have never thought the jewish hasidim looked sweet and innocent. Your right, they do throw stones at archaelogists and anyone else that incenses them in their strict religious madness!

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It's more insideous than you know.

 

Watch this movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0293088/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Playground_(film)

 

Because you are right...these kids are cloistered, sheltered, and kept ignorant of the "outside world"....UNTIL Rumspringa time. And it's like the attitude abruptly 180s and all the restraints come off. It's an interesting film. These kid's actually think they are experiencing the average modern life during rumspringa (they are really sheep running with wolves...big surprise), when they are really burning it at both ends like Rock Stars at Spring Break. Gee...wonder why most burn out and rush back to the "safety" of their childhood community?

 

In terms of social indoctrination, this concept is BRILLIANTLY manipulative.

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I've sometimes looked at societies like Hasidic Jews and Amish and thought how nice it would be to have that certainty of the future of a place to live and food to eat...but what kind of a life would it be anyway when your mind and body are pretty much in chains. These societies do have men in power still and as we all know that means there will be some corruption and stifling of the truth. Not cool. I always feel so sorry for the women in those societies because their treatment and roles always seems so demeaning. And the children are of course rampantly indoctrinated, which I consider child abuse. I wonder how a small closed Atheistic society would look...I don't think that would probably be great either...people who seek power are just usually corrupt.

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From time to time I think about the attractions of living on some kind of commune or monastery. An even more closed and protected sort of community than described by the OP. It is just so anxiety producing to keep a house up, a car, pay a mortgage and work a job! On the other hand, you must work in close proximity with others in the commune/monastery whether you like them or not. You may have the same values and world view, but-- you know how just looking at some people sets you off inside and you can't figure out why? Well, you have to be around them 24/7.

 

I recently listened to a CD where Buddhist nun Pema Chodron described her problems with someone in the monastery that didn't like her. She was able to come to terms with it only after hours and hours of intense meditation.

 

It is also a very structured life bounded by lots of rules. It may suit you now, but 10 years later it may not.

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I wouldn't mind living on a commune as long as:

 

- It was easy to travel to a nearby large city to get my kicks.

 

- There was endless orgying, debauchery, and revelry. Sex, sex, and more sex.

 

- I was able to get some monetary income and sock away some of it for my feeble years.

 

- We were growing/raising the best possible pure organic food possible in the local ecology.

 

- It was less hard work than living in the "real world." Or, I should say, the work was less shitty than work in the real world.

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I wouldn't mind living on a commune as long as:

 

- It was easy to travel to a nearby large city to get my kicks.

 

- There was endless orgying, debauchery, and revelry. Sex, sex, and more sex.

 

- I was able to get some monetary income and sock away some of it for my feeble years.

 

- We were growing/raising the best possible pure organic food possible in the local ecology.

 

- It was less hard work than living in the "real world." Or, I should say, the work was less shitty than work in the real world.

 

This was a lot like the Rajneeshpuram that was in Oregon back in the 80's, except for the guys with machine guns acting as security. Lots of sex, probably some that was unwanted as well. Most of the money went to the guru, who arrogantly titled himself "Baghwan" (Sir God). The leadership was clearly corrupt and on a power trip, even using cultivated salmonella against the locals that opposed them. Most of the followers were just being hippies, dancing themselves into an emotional rush, working on the collective farm, and smiling - always smiling. And everyone wore red.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneeshpuram

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Rajneesh...ioterror_attack

and for a pro "Osho" link: http://www.swami.de/ranch_e.htm

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This was a lot like the Rajneeshpuram that was in Oregon back in the 80's, except for the guys with machine guns acting as security. Lots of sex, probably some that was unwanted as well. Most of the money went to the guru, who arrogantly titled himself "Baghwan" (Sir God). The leadership was clearly corrupt and on a power trip, even using cultivated salmonella against the locals that opposed them. Most of the followers were just being hippies, dancing themselves into an emotional rush, working on the collective farm, and smiling - always smiling. And everyone wore red.

 

Well, that sounds kinda shitty, all things considered.

 

That is, unless I got to be the guru!!! :lmao:

 

This is probably way TMI, but sometimes I have the "Charles Manson" fantasy minus the murder and mental illness of course!!! Basically, I'm the sleazy dirty guru prowling around on a ranch spread in the Santa Monica Mountains, its' the late 60s, and I've got more hot young female hippie followers riding my jock than I know what to do with. I read Helter Skelter and said "shit, that guy had quite a racket going, and then he went and ruined it by being crazy enough to take his own religious delusion seriously."

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