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Ex-christian Women


CynthiaBelle
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One of the things that drove me crazy when I was a Christian was the blatant hatred of women in the bible. I couldn't help but wonder if the writers of this book ever intended for me to even be able to read this book. The obvious answer was no. I never accepted the idea of the pinnacle of my life being getting married and being a subservient wife. I saw my dad treat my mom like crap and she just took it. Obviously men and women aren't the same, but I do belief men and women are of equal worth...and then on a personal basis. :) So when I finally became an Atheist I was a bit disillusioned by the fact I actually submitted so long to this religion that gave me no rights and made me the property of men. If you haven't read this article yet, I would definitely recommend it.

 

http://suicidegirls.com/news/culture/23567/

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Of course after reading Raul's comment I had to go look. I agree with him.

 

Welcome to the pit of Heathens! This is where liberated women and men belong.

 

Aside: I am originally from Cincinnati, so I would appreciate it if you could go to Frisch's and White Castle on my behalf.

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I can remember once that I took a class called "Birth, Death and Sex in the Biblical World" and I often walked out of that class just feeling like the entire institution of my religion was stacked against me and that there was nothing I could do about it.

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When my husband and I had to do this mandatory pre-marital "coaching" thing to get married in the church for free, they pretty much accused me of being an evil feminist and not being willing to submit to god's will because I didn't want kids and planned on having a grad degree and a career. They told me "the Muslims are winning the war in the bedroom" (I guess to motivate me to get to it in army gear?). When we refused to change the course of our entire lives because of this random couple we had been forced to meet with, they dumped us off on the pastor, wouldn't meet with us any more, and said we were "unteachable."

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Of course after reading Raul's comment I had to go look. I agree with him.

+1. I hope you deal with praise well, Cynthia. We're not quite one-dimensional, but most of us guys here are shameless promoters of our species' better half. Get used to blushing. ;)

 

Also, excellent article you linked. I've seen it somewhere before, and it ranks somewhere around Jared Diamond's exposition of cultural evolution and dominance in Guns, Germs and Steel, IMO.

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My goodness, you are lovely. :)

 

The misogyny in the Bible was probably among the top 5 reasons why I ditched it. The OT is particularly egregious about it, but the NT has some zingers too. And really, what could be more obviously sexist than the conceit of a male god?

 

God is male, the priests are male, almost all the major players in the Bible are male, the messiah is male, his groupies are male, all the authors (as far as anybody knows) were male... really, the whole thing is just one big sausagefest. Not much room for women as anything other than accessories to and/or possessions of the men, or objects of their coupled resentment and desire. Not a very happy religion for us chicks.

 

At any rate - welcome out to a brighter world. :)

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When my husband and I had to do this mandatory pre-marital "coaching" thing to get married in the church for free, they pretty much accused me of being an evil feminist and not being willing to submit to god's will because I didn't want kids and planned on having a grad degree and a career. They told me "the Muslims are winning the war in the bedroom" (I guess to motivate me to get to it in army gear?). When we refused to change the course of our entire lives because of this random couple we had been forced to meet with, they dumped us off on the pastor, wouldn't meet with us any more, and said we were "unteachable."

Woooow that's crazy...is your husband also an ex-christian now?

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Of course after reading Raul's comment I had to go look. I agree with him.

 

Welcome to the pit of Heathens! This is where liberated women and men belong.

 

You know, this is something that surprises me about my current boyfriend. He's been an Atheist his whole life and for some reason I assumed that meant he was more open-minded, but he forbids me to communicate with guys. He doesn't even want me talking to life-long friends that I don't have chemistry with. Honestly I'm keeping my activity on this website secret from him. >.< He'd be pissed if he knew I was posting back to a guy right now. He says I just don't understand how guys think. Hmph... I guess you boys aren't exactly proving him wrong! :D hahaha.

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Of course after reading Raul's comment I had to go look. I agree with him.

 

Welcome to the pit of Heathens! This is where liberated women and men belong.

 

You know, this is something that surprises me about my current boyfriend. He's been an Atheist his whole life and for some reason I assumed that meant he was more open-minded, but he forbids me to communicate with guys. He doesn't even want me talking to life-long friends that I don't have chemistry with. Honestly I'm keeping my activity on this website secret from him. >.< He'd be pissed if he knew I was posting back to a guy right now. He says I just don't understand how guys think. Hmph... I guess you boys aren't exactly proving him wrong! :D hahaha.

 

 

Emphasis mine:

 

I find your boyfriend's attitude way to controlling for my tastes. I am quite sure you are aware of "how guys think" (after all we are somewhat simple), and you know how to make up your own mind about who you want to be more than friends with.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how some men have a possession complex when it comes to women. :banghead:

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Of course after reading Raul's comment I had to go look. I agree with him.

 

Welcome to the pit of Heathens! This is where liberated women and men belong.

 

You know, this is something that surprises me about my current boyfriend. He's been an Atheist his whole life and for some reason I assumed that meant he was more open-minded, but he forbids me to communicate with guys. He doesn't even want me talking to life-long friends that I don't have chemistry with. Honestly I'm keeping my activity on this website secret from him. >.< He'd be pissed if he knew I was posting back to a guy right now. He says I just don't understand how guys think. Hmph... I guess you boys aren't exactly proving him wrong! :D hahaha.

 

Cynthia, these men here at exC are just being honest when they say you're a lovely lady because you are. I looked at your profile, too. They're not lusting after you in the way that they'll steal you from your boyfriend. I'm a woman and I'd rather be single for the rest of my life than be controlled by a guy like yours. He has NO RIGHT to do this to you. I'd dump him this minute. Of course, I don't know him, but I've known women who weren't allowed to have friends so long as they were married to their controlling man. They had to get a divorce just to have a decent social life. I would guess that was only the tip of the ice berg. I would really hate to see you go through that kind of horror....Sorry, now I see you say "current boyfriend." So maybe you're not thinking long term.

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I agree, this sort of behavior is completely unhealthy. I had a boyfriend in undergrad who was exactly like that... he wouldn't let me dress up when we went out because he freaked out anytime he saw another guy look at me. It got to the point where I had to apologize to him if some other guy yelled, whistled, or stared at me, like it was my fault. That didn't last! My husband (the former youth pastor mentioned in the thread below) is much more sane. He has no problem with my male friends, I have no problem with his female friends, and neither of us is paranoid about the other cheating. If you can't find someone with a healthy sense of reality, it doesn't matter what they believe or disbelieve. There are xtian, muslim, hindu, and buddhist jerks. There are also atheist jerks. Some guys are just jerks, and you ditch them.

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Yeah I'm really not thinking it's a healthy relationship and once I can afford to move out I'm sure I will. I know that sounds so awful...like I'm using him. But I honestly don't have the means to leave just yet. He and his mom have gotten on me about wearing tank tops. *gasp* Ugh. I don't think it's a crime for guys to check me out or think I'm attractive. And I do like having male acquaintances. So long as I can't just function like normal I'll consider this relationship crap. :(

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One more thing to think ahead about, when you leave him will he react violently (even if it is months later)? Sometimes control freaks like this can't emotionally let go of those they obsess about. If you can find a women's center, get some advice about local options for safe places to go, or ways to defend yourself. I've seen so many of these stories in the news lately about guys that murder their ex (and often the kids too) and then kill themselves.

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He says I just don't understand how guys think. Hmph... I guess you boys aren't exactly proving him wrong! :D hahaha.

 

Dunno... I don't mind my wife talking to, posting to, or meeting in RL with friends. :)

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Let me add mine to the chorus of voices about how controlling your SO is.

 

You have every right to be friends with whoever you wish, to speak to whomever you wish, to interact with whomever you like. If your SO is so controlling and insecure that he freaks out about you responding to even an anonymous male on an internet forum, he he is Very Bad News™.

 

I have been with men like this. They do not change and they do not get any better. In fact they get worse over time. Guys that freak out about their SO's having contact with other men will do everything they possibly can to isolate you just to allay their own insecurities; if you stay with him long enough I bet you dollars to dimes there will come a time when you are forbidden from even leaving the house at all. Because, y'know, men are everywhere. Can't avoid that...

 

And let me guess: does he pretend as if it's all about the guys? Does he express a worry that guys will come after you, or is it that he openly fears you will stray?

 

Truth is, it doesn't really matter; either way, it's really all about HIM. His insecurities, what he wants, what he thinks you should do and be and how you should act to please him. Take this to heart: NOTHING you do will ever please him. You could be the most faithful woman on the planet, and he will forever be looking for signs of your infidelity, punishing you for breaches of trust that he only imagines, regardless of your actual actions.

 

This guy is trouble. Get away from him as soon as you can. In secret, if you must.

 

And keep us posted.

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Gwen, and everyone else, I appreciate your voice of support because I have no experience. All I have is the memory of a few former classmates who told me that if they were still married they couldn't be friends with me. That seemed so horrible because these friends were my own lifeline at the time.

 

Cynthia, you might not know my history but you can see my profile if you're interested. I was way too new to the culture at the time to have a clue what my classmates were talking about re their own lives; I only knew how much I needed them. But Cynthia, what you posted made me see what my classmates must have meant. It's like a flashback. It's as though I can hear the darkness and horror in my friends' voices that I missed at the time and I just had to post a warning. I've been out of my community so much longer by now so I have a much better idea of the culture out here and what it means when a woman says her man won't let her have friends. What Gwen says explains how it goes from being your case to being as bad as my friends described.

 

You're such a wonderful young lady and you have such a strong sense of self esteem. You will do fine if you can escape safely in the very near future. I'm glad you shared about this problem and I think I speak for everyone here.

 

Note that I used the word "escape" because others warned that it could be more complicated than just getting out of the house. I wish you well.

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Ola! Welcome to the boards!

 

I always think I'm a jealous boyfriend, but I've dated a couple of strippers in my day- I guess some things put that into perspective. :woohoo:

 

I'll not bother to reiterate most of what others here have said- but if you're ever looking for someone to grab a beer with, I'm just over the border in Muncie, IN.

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Thanks for all the nice comments. You made a lot of really good points Gwen. It really is all about HIM...I honestly feel irrelevant in this relationship the majority of the time. I'm not afraid of him being physically abusive at all, but I do think he's highly emotionally abusive. I think my Christian background and the way my parents put me down all the time has kind of set me up for abusive relationships. If any of you saw my testimony posted, I'm in such a weird situation that I never thought I'd be in and don't really know how to fix. It's a rough time... I escaped an abusive marriage and my boyfriend is the only person that was willing to help me. So when this relationship started getting controlling I was kind of in denial about it and of course, blamed myself... I'm isolated with or without his influence because leaving Christianity put me on the outs with everyone I used to know and I moved to a new state to put as much distance as I could between me and the abusive marriage. I thought I was doing everything as correctly as I could, but I find myself in another situation I don't want to be in. I know now that I just really need to be single for a while and stop handing prison keys to men who promise they'll take care of me. Pretty pathetic, huh? Well I moved here when the economy started going to crap and I just finally will be starting work next week. It's such a low-paying job though that it could be months before I can afford to just get out on my own. I know that things won't just get better around here though. I tried to talk to him last night about the blatant distrust of me in his forbidding I speak anonymously online because guys might read it...and he told me to "shut the fuck up" several times. :( My daddy always told me that he felt sorry for any guy that would be with me...I need to retrain myself and not just hope but demand to be treated fairly...

 

Glad I found this site though, you guys are great. :)

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Of course after reading Raul's comment I had to go look. I agree with him.

 

Welcome to the pit of Heathens! This is where liberated women and men belong.

 

You know, this is something that surprises me about my current boyfriend. He's been an Atheist his whole life and for some reason I assumed that meant he was more open-minded, but he forbids me to communicate with guys. He doesn't even want me talking to life-long friends that I don't have chemistry with. Honestly I'm keeping my activity on this website secret from him. >.< He'd be pissed if he knew I was posting back to a guy right now. He says I just don't understand how guys think. Hmph... I guess you boys aren't exactly proving him wrong! :D hahaha.

 

Cynthia, these men here at exC are just being honest when they say you're a lovely lady because you are. I looked at your profile, too. They're not lusting after you in the way that they'll steal you from your boyfriend. I'm a woman and I'd rather be single for the rest of my life than be controlled by a guy like yours. He has NO RIGHT to do this to you. I'd dump him this minute. Of course, I don't know him, but I've known women who weren't allowed to have friends so long as they were married to their controlling man. They had to get a divorce just to have a decent social life. I would guess that was only the tip of the ice berg. I would really hate to see you go through that kind of horror....Sorry, now I see you say "current boyfriend." So maybe you're not thinking long term.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't mean to turn this thread into a relationship help thread, but since it was brought up and it pretty much goes with the theme of the thread anyway... I'm a guy, and I'm also quite bothered by any man who is so insecure that he feels such a desire to control women. My gf posts in a religion/politics forum full of horny bodybuilders, many of them in great shape; she has also always had only male friends, and to my knowledge, has never slept with any of them. I see the ones online hit on her quite often and I could care less because a) I'm not insecure about myself b- I trust her, and c) whatever will be will be, as you (CynthiaBelle) are proving right now - that you're going to converse with other guys whether he likes it or not. I would never tell my gf that she cannot talk to other guys or hang out with them, regardless of whether or not they want to sleep with her. If the only think that would be stopping her from being emotional or physical intimate (or anything on a completely harmless level, such as this conversation) with another guy was my demands , I would only be projecting my feelings onto her, perpetuating the myth that she felt the same as I did. By not trying to control her, I don't have to wonder whether or not she's being loyal to me because I demand it or because that's what she really wants. I also feel that it is selfish, as she prefers male friends, so who am I to tell her she can't have intellectually and emotionally (to a certain degree) relationships with others?

 

You can't force people to behave a certain way or feel about you in a particular way, so he's only delaying the inevitable and trying to put love in a cage. Also, having studied domestic abuse in Sociology in college, I can tell you that a guy who is this controlling smells like a possible abuser. If he starts limiting your female friends as well, you're in serious trouble.

 

My daddy always told me that he felt sorry for any guy that would be with me...I need to retrain myself and not just hope but demand to be treated fairly...

 

I'm sorry your dad said something fucked up like that to you, but I'm glad to see you are realizing you need to demand respect. Girls with low self-esteem are magnets for abusers, whether physical or just mental. They know women with low self-esteem are less likely to stand up for themselves and/or leave. Once you get out of this situation, the best thing you can do for yourself is to stand tall, look men in the eyes, and give off an aura of strength and independence. This is a major turn off for women-beating lowlife pussies who can't stand a woman with a backbone; a woman who doesn't NEED them. The truth is the need you more than you need them and once you start showing these man-children that you don't need them and can ditch them in a second if they cause you trouble, they will realize they can't get you and they'll go prey on some other poor soul. Self esteem is one of the most empowering traits one can own.

 

 

 

 

But aaanyway, back to the religious misogyny....

 

 

I like to compare Christianity to an abusive partner. Christianity tries to destroy people's self-esteem. It basically says, "you're a worthless piece of shit and you don't deserve love....but I'll love you anyways because I'm so wonderful and I've decided to show you mercy." It makes you feel guilty for everything you do and tries to control every aspect of your life. The Christian god is a jealous god; a god of war; the ultimate jealous, abusive boyfriend. I mean, He got pissed off at everyone and drown them in a giant flood. Then, what does he do afterward? He sends us fucking rainbows to make it all better. "I promise I'll never do it again! Here, baby, I got this rainbow for you!" Sure, no more floods, but then he goes out and kills off a bunch more people and prepares for Armageddon. The Bible even talks about us being the bride of god. Don't you dare you turn your back on him, or he'll punish you. Don't you ever think of leaving him, because you're a worthless piece of shit and no one else wants you. Only through him can you be happy. You're nothing without him.

 

 

What pisses me off about Christianity is that it generally exerts power over women in a passive-aggressive manner. When you point out Christianity's misogyny to Christians, they say, "well, yes, men are the head of the family, but they are required to treat women with great respect." They'll cherry pick their passages, trying to make it look like it's not so bad, but when it comes down to it, the over all message of the Bible is that women should shut the fuck up and do what they're told. Oh, and if you get raped, then the rapist gets to buy you from your father. But hey, let's focus on the warm, fluffy verses about women...all two of them.

 

 

I think the loss of a social network is why an Atheist club of some sort would be a good idea. It can be hard for Atheists to lose their social network after they ditch religion. Online networks are good, but live interaction with people in your own area can be even better. I think if there were more of these groups that met on a regular basis, maybe more people wouldn't be as afraid to leave their religion. They could meet once a week or a few times a month and just have a round table discussion and maybe guest speakers. Religious people would be welcome to come if they were considering leaving their religion. There could be something for everyone at various points along the spectrum of belief.

 

 

And, wow, you are pretty. You look just like Angolina Jolie. :tongue:

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