David Wilkerson

[Vomit Comet]

David Wilkerson prophesies immanent catastrophe

 

Usually I just laugh that kind of shit off. Hal Lindsay anyone?

 

But when I was a Christian, David Wilkerson was like my #1 hero. At one point I sorely wanted to go work for Teen Challenge. I thought he was the real deal, the ultimate example of a man of God. Whereas even while still in the throes of Pentecostalism I knew that a lot of people (e.g. Kenneth Hagan) were either fucking nuts, mistaken, or just plain frauds. But to me, David Wilkerson was the real deal. The real deal.

 

I saw this on another forum, and a lot of the hardcore fundies started saying that Wilkerson prophesied or saw coming a lot of other shit, like the stock meltdown of '87, 9/11, the current crisis, etc. etc. And for a few moments there I was gripped in fear. In the old days I would've seen that and I would've gone "Lord, I'm ready, O' Lord, I'm ready, thank you for your servant David Wilkerson." But when I was struck with that fear, fuck man... for a few moments there, I was just fucking afraid. I'm still a little shaken.

[GraphicsGuy]

DW's been "prophecying" all kinds of catastrophes for years and he has particularly concentrated on New York for decades and decades. I believe it was in "Set the Trumpet to Thy Mouth" where he stated (paraphrasing from long memory), "If God does not destroy New York City he will personally have to apologize to Sodom and Gamorrah."

 

That was written...about...30 years ago?

 

And here he is once again saying something bad will happen to NY.

 

However, he didn't have the foresight to see the 9/11 disaster. Oh, he SAYS that he and his fellow ministers "felt" that something was going to happen, but they didn't know what.

 

Of course, he only said that AFTER it happened. How bloody convenient.

 

The guy's a loser that gets off on his own self-importance to the Alfuckingmighty.

[OpheliaGinger]

Anyone can predict just about anything. If you keep an eye on the news and look at past events, anyone can formulate possible future.

[R. S. Martin]

I am a prophetess. I prophecy that spring in Southern Ontario is just around the corner.

 

DISCLAIMER: I cannot see clearly regarding how long the corner is but you can count on it, spring is just around the corner.

[Vigile]

"you can cut me into a 1000 pieces Nicky and every one of those pieces will still say Jesus loves you..."

 

Cross and the Switchblade was one of my favorite books when I was a kid. Now I think Wilkerson was an obnoxious ass who took advantage of Cruz while he was at a low point in his already psychotic life. Even so, if the book is true, then Cruz was better off as a Jesus freak than he was as a gangbanger. At least it kept him from killing anyone and kept him alive.

 

As for why his prophesies bugged you, I'd say it has a whole lot to do with emotional, subconscious associations you have made in the past. In the past you tied DW with good feelings you experienced at that time (just like beer commercials attempt to tie good times and sex to their products). Those good feelings that got anchored to him as a symbol led to trust. Now that you don't believe anymore, you still have those emotional anchors in place so when the symbol talks, your emotions still respond.

 

Recognizing that will likely take care of most of the problem.

[glebealyth]

I am a prophetess. I prophecy that spring in Southern Ontario is just around the corner.

 

DISCLAIMER: I cannot see clearly regarding how long the corner is but you can count on it, spring is just around the corner.

 

I always know when Spring has arrived...

 

It is the moment my wife seeks me out to tell me that she needs new sandals.

 

;o))

 

Now THAT's prophecy. DW is your usual kind of xian who acquires and secures wealth by vomiting plausible bullshit to the gullible.

[Amethyst]

I am a prophetess too, Ruby!

 

Guess what, I predict that summer will be here soon.

 

I am not sure when, but it usually happens after spring has passed.

 

Oh, and global warming will ensue. Except in Australia, of course.

 

[Vomit Comet]

Now that you don't believe anymore, you still have those emotional anchors in place so when the symbol talks, your emotions still respond.

 

Recognizing that will likely take care of most of the problem.

 

Ah, makes sense.

[Vomit Comet]

DW's been "prophecying" all kinds of catastrophes for years and he has particularly concentrated on New York for decades and decades.

 

The guy's a loser that gets off on his own self-importance to the Alfuckingmighty.

 

Ah, thanks for cuttin' thru the bullshit for me.

[mwc]

he is "compelled by the Holy Spirit to send out an urgent message" about his prediction.

 

"An earth-shattering calamity is about to happen," he writes. "It is going to be so frightening, we are all going to tremble – even the godliest among us."

 

Wilkerson's vision is of fires raging through New York City.

 

"It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut. Major cities all across America will experience riots and blazing fires – such as we saw in Watts, Los Angeles, years ago," he explains. "There will be riots and fires in cities worldwide. There will be looting – including Times Square, New York City. What we are experiencing now is not a recession, not even a depression. We are under God’s wrath. In Psalm 11 it is written, "If the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?"

Ahhhh!!! Ahhhh!!! Ahhhh!!!

 

"God is judging the raging sins of America and the nations," claims Wilkerson. "He is destroying the secular foundations." Wilkerson urges everyone to stockpile a 30-day supply of food and other necessities to deal with the catastrophe he foresees.

 

"I do not know when these things will come to pass, but I know it is not far off," Wilkerson concluded in his message. "I have unburdened my soul to you. Do with the message as you choose."

Really? 30 days? Things will be basically back on track in a month? I think that's better than Bush and Katrina.

 

mwc

[hereticzero]

The world and humans are getting older. Sooner or later a major cataclysm will happen. In every generation, there is a major disaster that kills off millions of people. The natural occurrence of the laws and actions that run the planet is a disaster for humans. Disease, famine, and pestilence, the three basic food groups for humanity. There will always be someone around to make a buck off despair or guilt. Keep an eye on this guy and see what excuse he uses in 2014. Personally I think we get whacked by a big rock in 2033.

[upstarter]

Fire in NYC! I think ol' Dave fell asleep watching an episode of Heroes!

 

I must say that I too fall into the camp of people who love Wilkerson when I was a young xtian. That Nicky Cruz book meant more to me than the bible for quite a few years in my youth. I always secretly wished I had a testimony like that!

 

Shit will happen, and people like Wilkerson will claim they saw it coming. There's no point in fearing what hasn't happened.

 

Heather

[Mongo]

"you can cut me into a 1000 pieces Nicky and every one of those pieces will still say Jesus loves you..."

 

Cross and the Switchblade was one of my favorite books when I was a kid. Now I think Wilkerson was an obnoxious ass who took advantage of Cruz while he was at a low point in his already psychotic life. Even so, if the book is true, then Cruz was better off as a Jesus freak than he was as a gangbanger. At least it kept him from killing anyone and kept him alive.

 

As for why his prophesies bugged you, I'd say it has a whole lot to do with emotional, subconscious associations you have made in the past. In the past you tied DW with good feelings you experienced at that time (just like beer commercials attempt to tie good times and sex to their products). Those good feelings that got anchored to him as a symbol led to trust. Now that you don't believe anymore, you still have those emotional anchors in place so when the symbol talks, your emotions still respond.

 

Recognizing that will likely take care of most of the problem.

 

Great freaking quote!!! I remember that too; I think it was a tag line to something... the book cover maybe?

 

When I was a fundy... I carefully watched people and what they said. The scientific approach was this...

 

1. Pay attention to the facts and 2. compare them to what the most "holy" (actually sanctimonious) of people say.

 

Interestingly I discovered a significant distortion of fact - exaggeration!!!

 

This behaviour was observed amongst the most gregarious christians who were bragging about what Jesus did for them. Invariably these stories from exaggerating braggarts were the testamonies that were repeated from the pulpit. It was a serious blow to my faith amongst other things.

 

Later in life I learned that human memory is maleable and with repeated exposure to a lie people can be convinced that a ficticious event actually happened. Both the liar and the audiance develop a belief that the lie is true.

 

That brings me back to the scene where Nikki is about to cut Wilkerson in pieces... I no longer find any reason to believe it is much more than a little pushing and shoving that over the years became something bigger than life.

 

But it was a hell of a good story wasn't it???!!!

 

Mongo

[Andy]

It must be terribly inconvenient to have your life constantly disrupted in preparation for an "imminent disaster" at the whim of a loony preacher. I feel sorry for the people who believe this. The paranoia must be overwhelming.

[Snafutopia]

Hey, small world. I just stumbled across the Wilkerson "prophecy" while googling an (or so I thought) unrelated book. Below is the "current" version. Anybody have a link to its original publication? I'm wondering about the exact date.

 

And the part about, "... a practical word I received for my own direction. If possible lay in store a thirty-day supply of non-perishable food, toiletries and other essentials" is especially snark-worthy.

 

Is Wilkerson seriously trying to convince people that the creator of the universe recommended stocking up on toilet paper?

 

 

 

I am compelled by the Holy Spirit to send out an urgent message to all on our mailing list, and to friends and to bishops we have met all over the world.

 

AN EARTH-SHATTERING CALAMITY IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN. IT IS GOING TO BE SO FRIGHTENING, WE ARE ALL GOING TO TREMBLE - EVEN THE GODLIEST AMONG US.

 

For ten years I have been warning about a thousand fires coming to New York City. It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut. Major cities all across America will experience riots and blazing fires—such as we saw in Watts, Los Angeles, years ago.

 

There will be riots and fires in cities worldwide. There will be looting—including Times Square, New York City. What we are experiencing now is not a recession, not even a depression. We are under God’s wrath. In Psalm 11 it is written,

 

“If the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?” (v. 3).

 

God is judging the raging sins of America and the nations. He is destroying the secular foundations.

 

The prophet Jeremiah pleaded with wicked Israel, “God is fashioning a calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Oh, turn back each of you from your evil way, and reform your ways and deeds. But they will say, It’s hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart” (Jeremiah 18:11-12).

 

In Psalm 11:6, David warns, “Upon the wicked he will rain snares (coals of fire)…fire…burning wind…will be the portion of their cup.” Why? David answered, “Because the Lord is righteous” (v. 7). This is a righteous judgment—just as in the judgments of Sodom and in Noah’s generation.

 

WHAT SHALL THE RIGHTEOUS DO? WHAT ABOUT GOD’S PEOPLE?

 

First, I give you a practical word I received for my own direction. If possible lay in store a thirty-day supply of non-perishable food, toiletries and other essentials. In major cities, grocery stores are emptied in an hour at the sign of an impending disaster.

 

As for our spiritual reaction, we have but two options. This is outlined in Psalm 11. We “flee like a bird to a mountain.” Or, as David says, “He fixed his eyes on the Lord on his throne in heaven—his eyes beholding, his eyelids testing the sons of men” (v. 4). “In the Lord I take refuge” (v. 1).

 

I will say to my soul: No need to run…no need to hide. This is God’s righteous work. I will behold our Lord on his throne, with his eye of tender, loving kindness watching over every step I take—trusting that he will deliver his people even through floods, fires, calamities, tests, trials of all kinds.

 

Note: I do not know when these things will come to pass, but I know it is not far off. I have unburdened my soul to you. Do with the message as you choose.

 

God bless and keep you,

 

In Christ,

 

DAVID WILKERSON

[Snafutopia]

Wilkerson has the gall to gush about his deity's "tender, loving kindness" in the very act of "fashioning a calamity."

 

ppfffft.

[Snafutopia]

At the "Salt Sister" blog (she poses herself as a prophetess) where I found the text of Wilkerson's disaster prediction, I decided to post the following, but assume it'll be deleted as soon as "Salt Sister" returns.

 

(I've linked to ex-christian.net in case any of her readers decides to click on my screenname)

Dear people. Jesus is dead. He’s never “coming back”. Wake up and smell the reality.

 

“End Times Fiction” by Gary DeMar

 

“Gospel Truth” by Russell Shorto

 

“Why Won’t God Heal Amputees?”

 

By the way, what does YOUR Bible say is to be the fate of false prophets like David Wilkerson? While you’re trying to ignore that, you might want to read the following, from blogger Rollan McCleary:

 

http://rollanscensoredissuesblog.blogspot....n-disaster.html

 

“David Wilkerson’s bestselling and still highly influential work of 1973, The Vision, includes the information that the late healer, Kathryn Kuhlmann, would be persecuted (she never was) similarly to Billy Graham who now nearly ninety enjoys a good reputation he is not now likely to lose. The book foresaw (soon!) a vast economic crisis and collapse leading to a one world order, but it begins in Europe not America like the current crisis, the most serious since the 1930s. If by chance W was glimpsing events today (even accurate prophets can get wrong time frames) he does see banks and the automobile industry collapsing, that much can be granted him. But this pastor would subsequently predict total collapse through the Y2K and then total economic collapse in 2004. He also maintained America would “die” back in August ‘98 when a gay Jesus play which didn’t last long on Broadway, was premiered. Back in 1994 he was predicting that within five years America would have no further gospel networks but they are still with us like the reputation of Reagan who was supposed to leave office in disgrace, just as America was supposed to lose the Gulf War. Well over 30 years after his initial main vision nudity is not featured on at any rate mainstream US TV and there is certainly no nude dancing in churches.

 

DAVID WILKERSON AND HOMOSEXUAL PANIC

 

No amount of failure can diminish Wilkerson’s influence as prophet even if people get hurt and misled along the way like people back in 1993 told to stock up with a month or more’s goods in order to manage the impending crisis. (The latest warning advises similarly). Gays could well complain that Wilkerson’s The Vision, along with other statements, is virtual fons et origo of much contemporary Christian conservative prejudice and paranoia since the book saw gays as becoming so strong and “brazen” (W’s image of gays is derived almost wholly from pride parades!) they will be raping kids in the parks – as the Bible forecasts (which of course it doesn’t). I don’t have my copy of The Vision to supply page and exact quote for that but I recall my shock at reading the libel and I see from a published book of mine that on p. 78. W associates gays with the coming church of the Antichrist. There’s not a thing in or out of religion or public space gays could do right!

 

Wilkerson is seriously one of the homosexual panic types for whom no real distinction exists between homosexual and pedophile, a confusion conservatives almost need to keep alive in order to protest the laws as they do. Given this assumption everything becomes a slippery slope towards pedophilia if society tolerates gays and a slippery slope nationally towards fires from heaven too since any tolerance duplicates doomed Sodom. Wilkerson has been so far from risking fires from heaven and contamination for himself and associates that in the past I recall reading somewhere he excluded gays from his drug cure programs. If so, it’s one of the most questionable, unattractive things about him and which if it went on overtly today would have him up for politically incorrect behaviour, one imagines.

 

It’s worth mentioning in parenthesis that when a couple of years ago I tried to communicate some criticisms to Rev Wilkerson I found that like most American religious orgs one is against a fortress system which wants to limit and rank any questions and suggestion in advance thus making almost any personal contact with the “star” figure impossible, (though W’s latest development towards influential blogging appears to allow contact). Whatever, there is no question that Wilkerson’s reading should include such as Dr Michael Carden’s study, Sodomy: The Story of a Christian Biblical Myth (2004). Its scholarship conclusively demonstrates that Sodom as home of homosexuality and judged for it from heaven is a late invention of Christian rather than Jewish rabbinic commentators and some Christians, like especially medieval fanatic, Peter Damien, similarly to Wilkerson, are happy to misquote scripture to have the kind of Sodom, Sodomy and Sodomites they choose to imagine.

 

There is a lot of choosing to do where Wilkerson is concerned. I was amazed that he released his recent urgent prophecy to unburden himself. Normally one would expect a prophet would release a major forecast under the immediate direction of God and granted he does begin by saying the Holy Spirit compels him - a major claim he should really hesitate to make given his history of failures - but it’s typical of the ambiguities that attend his absolutes that he speaks of an unburdening of soul to us which, given his history and style, is very likely the case. But as though introducing an element of doubt he suggests we do with the message as we choose. If this really is a divine message whatever happened to the uncompromising delivery “Thus says the Lord”?

 

DAVID WILKERSON, CULT FIGURE

 

As a well-established figure people want, even need, to believe Wilkerson. I see there is even an urban myth (someone who recently used it to “prove” to a religion site that believers must listen to Wilkerson as a true prophet has since apologized for mentioning it) that he and his Times Square Church people foresaw 9/11 to the point they prepared sandwiches the night before to be given out to those in distress. There is another myth that Wilkerson’s org itself has had to deny that he forecast the closing of all American banks following troubles in Latin America. The forecast is from someone many years ago but keeps getting recycled to this day. Such myths arise because to a certain sensibility W’s forecasts, often delivered in woeful and even weeping when not angry tones (one wonders does this pastor/prophet ever laugh) seem wonderfully stirring and sensational; it’s some people’s idea of the biblical “real thing” even though, so far as one can see, it’s either untrue or at most half true.

 

Ironically, the relative success of the gay movement that W never understood, is the nearest to his hitting the prophetic gong and for good reason. Though his various forecasts in 1973 of the advent of gay clergy and acceptance of gayness as gift etc probably seem magically accurate to his average reader, someone living in the major gay centre of New York and aware the MCC church was founded in 1968 by an excommunicated Pentecostal pastor who had been ordaining gays and preaching an inclusive message, would supply Wilkerson his rumour-like prophecies. Noticeably W’s prophecies in this area didn’t extend to foreseeing the more recent and unexpected movement for gay marriages which slippery slope conservatives now have to portray as an attack upon marriage itself.

 

Wilkerson’s latest urgent forecast seems strangely like a re-hashed enlargement of the fires and mayhem in New York vision that he released in 1993 and gave the next year as the latest time for its fulfillment. It’s as though the pastor has an idee fixe around fires, the fires of anger and lust, the fires of hell, of judgment fires from heaven and now the fires of Manhattan."

[Snafutopia]

oops I hit the publish button at Salt Sister's blog before editing out the astrology crap from McCleary's otherwise excellent rant. sigh.