A Sincere Apology

[Lady Wolf]

 

To a dear lady, Maynoda, you know who you are:

 

I have taken the liberty of coming to this website in order to post an apology to you and hopefully to all others who have been wrongfully persecuted by either well meaning but woefully ignorant Christians or by "Christians" who are really not, but rather wolves that mascarade around in sheep's clothing to give authentic Christianity and its followers a bad name.

 

For those who don't know, Maynoda came to a forum that I frequent and that for purposes of privacy, I'll not divulge its name her, but will leave that up to her discresion. She came to a thread discussing Christianity and when it was learned she was an ex Christian seeking information and possibly some answers to some very good questions, she was immediately verbally attacked and labled with some pretty awful labels. Suffice it to say, she was not shown the Christian love that she should have, and because of this was subsequently chased away. No...that's not entirely correct. She was not chased away, but chose to leave and I don't blame her one bit afte the way in which she was treated. I was hurt for her and embarrased by those who would wear Christ's name and then act in such an unloving and unChrist-like manner:(

 

Maynoda, I am here to offer an appology on behalf of others who have wronged you. I don't blame you one bit, should you decide not to come back to that forum and especially that thread. I would encourage you to at least lurk though, as many, including myself are defending you and the treatment you recieved while there.

 

I hope you'll reconsider, and I sincerely hope that everyone, no matter what your beliefs will think twice before attacking another for their beliefs. Above and beyond what deity we do or do not hold in highest regards, we must always remember to love one another and show tolerance and respect to those with different views and beliefs than our own.

 

Maynoda, please except this sincere apology and may we all learn to be more loving and tolerant.

 

Sincerely,

 

Lady Wolf

 

PS: Would anyone who sees this and knows who this poster is, please direct her to this post. I am brand new to this forum and so I'm not familar with it's many different rooms and how they all work. I am only here as she mentioned this forum in a few of her posts and how much it has helped her since leaving Christiantiy.

 

Thank you in advance for helping me get this to the right person.

[Deva]

It seems like this would have been better posted on the other site where this "Maynoda" frequents and where she was allegedly attacked. If she is here, and she is an ex-Christian, she would get all the support we could give her. That is the purpose of this site.

 

Maynoda, I am here to offer an appology on behalf of others who have wronged you. I don't blame you one bit, should you decide not to come back to that forum and especially that thread. I would encourage you to at least lurk though, as many, including myself are defending you and the treatment you recieved while there.

 

I hope you'll reconsider, and I sincerely hope that everyone, no matter what your beliefs will think twice before attacking another for their beliefs. Above and beyond what deity we do or do not hold in highest regards, we must always remember to love one another and show tolerance and respect to those with different views and beliefs than our own.

 

Pardon me, but I have been here long enough to see Christians use this type of holier-than-thou approach many times as a way to promote their own views. It comes off as disingenuous and, quite frankly, fake. Christianity presents a particular view of the world. It is either true or it is not. We don't believe it is true. No, LadyWolf, you are not going to find too much tolerance of the false Christian view here, just as on the other site the ex-Christian was "wronged" by Christians. Why pretend, why play all nice? Let's get real and skip the fantasy. Christians and ex-Christians don't agree on these religious matters. You can't apologize on behalf of others.

 

Mods - can we slap a squiddie on this one?

[OpheliaGinger]

I think this is more of a hit and run poster.

[hereticzero]

Sneak attack! Fundy on the prowl.

It's a feeler thread. Getting to know the area before launching a Jesus-sent-me prophetic posting to lead us gently back to da cross! Thank you Geezus fer sending us this thy missionary to us heathens.

 

Somebody let the lions out!

[hereticzero]

Sharpening teeth here.

 

We thank thee oh Lord for these fruits which we are about to receive.

 

Ramen.

[hereticzero]

BTW: If this were legit, the other forum would have this other person's e-mail and that admin can contact her. She doesn't need to be stalked by Jesus' minions.

[Ouroboros]

For those who don't know, Maynoda came to a forum that I frequent and that for purposes of privacy, I'll not divulge its name her, but will leave that up to her discresion. She came to a thread discussing Christianity and when it was learned she was an ex Christian seeking information and possibly some answers to some very good questions, she was immediately verbally attacked and labled with some pretty awful labels. Suffice it to say, she was not shown the Christian love that she should have, and because of this was subsequently chased away. No...that's not entirely correct. She was not chased away, but chose to leave and I don't blame her one bit afte the way in which she was treated. I was hurt for her and embarrased by those who would wear Christ's name and then act in such an unloving and unChrist-like manner:(

Well, good then we--the Ex-Christians--could give Maynoda a good home, since Christianity failed her.

[Lady Wolf]

It seems like this would have been better posted on the other site where this "Maynoda" frequents and where she was allegedly attacked. If she is here, and she is an ex-Christian, she would get all the support we could give her. That is the purpose of this site.

 

Maynoda, I am here to offer an appology on behalf of others who have wronged you. I don't blame you one bit, should you decide not to come back to that forum and especially that thread. I would encourage you to at least lurk though, as many, including myself are defending you and the treatment you recieved while there.

 

I hope you'll reconsider, and I sincerely hope that everyone, no matter what your beliefs will think twice before attacking another for their beliefs. Above and beyond what deity we do or do not hold in highest regards, we must always remember to love one another and show tolerance and respect to those with different views and beliefs than our own.

 

Pardon me, but I have been here long enough to see Christians use this type of holier-than-thou approach many times as a way to promote their own views. It comes off as disingenuous and, quite frankly, fake. Christianity presents a particular view of the world. It is either true or it is not. We don't believe it is true. No, LadyWolf, you are not going to find too much tolerance of the false Christian view here, just as on the other site the ex-Christian was "wronged" by Christians. Why pretend, why play all nice? Let's get real and skip the fantasy. Christians and ex-Christians don't agree on these religious matters. You can't apologize on behalf of others.

 

Mods - can we slap a squiddie on this one?

 

 

Actually I did post an apology on that forum. I was hoping if I posted it here as well she might have a better chance at seeing it, as she mentioned upon leaving that she would not be returning...

 

Wait...are you saying that my apology is disengenuous and fake, or Christianity in general? LOL! Sorry, I'm a bit confused here:) If my apology, I can only tell you that it is given with the utmost sencerety in mind. If Christianity in general, all I can tell you, is that unfortunately, one's beliefs and how others views them is in the eye of the beholder. I also think that it might not be wise to lump one's character with one's choice of religion;) We all stand or fall on our characters, and those same characters either mirror their beliefs, be they true beliefs or false.

 

Given the name of this forum, I didn't expect, nor come here to find tolerance of my beliefs, rather I came here to apologize to one who was wrongfully persecuted and treated quite badly. Why? Because I disagreed with how she was treated and wanted her to know it.

 

I don't play nice lol, as a rule I try to be nice and show respect to everyone. Life is too short to creat negative energy and gain pleasure at the expense of another's pain don't you think? No fantasies here, just trying to show a little love and respect for my fellow man, or in this case woman;)

 

As far as whether or not agreement leads or does not lead to anything, I think we all have the ability to disagree and love one another inspite of those disagreements. As for apologies on behalf of others. I respectfully disagree with you. Positive energy is a good thing regardless of the vehicle that brings it about. Much like giving someone a hug who's had a bad day that you had nothing to do with. We all need a little empathy, compassion and understanding at times don't you think?

 

Thanks for responding. Maynoda has seen my apology on the other forum and we are back in communication...life is good:D

[Lady Wolf]

I think this is more of a hit and run poster.

 

LOL, no hit and run...just one with too much on her plate today. Peace:)

[Lady Wolf]

Sneak attack! Fundy on the prowl.

It's a feeler thread. Getting to know the area before launching a Jesus-sent-me prophetic posting to lead us gently back to da cross! Thank you Geezus fer sending us this thy missionary to us heathens.

 

Somebody let the lions out!

 

Nope, hate to dissapoint the lions...hope you've got a substitute dinner in mind for the poor kitties LOL! Just a sincere apology:)

[Lady Wolf]

BTW: If this were legit, the other forum would have this other person's e-mail and that admin can contact her. She doesn't need to be stalked by Jesus' minions.

 

No stalking here...just showing some genuine love. Believe it or not it really does still exist in this crazy upside down world;)

[Lady Wolf]

Sharpening teeth here.

 

We thank thee oh Lord for these fruits which we are about to receive.

 

Ramen.

 

LOL! fruits?? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't lions meat eaters?

[Lady Wolf]

For those who don't know, Maynoda came to a forum that I frequent and that for purposes of privacy, I'll not divulge its name her, but will leave that up to her discresion. She came to a thread discussing Christianity and when it was learned she was an ex Christian seeking information and possibly some answers to some very good questions, she was immediately verbally attacked and labled with some pretty awful labels. Suffice it to say, she was not shown the Christian love that she should have, and because of this was subsequently chased away. No...that's not entirely correct. She was not chased away, but chose to leave and I don't blame her one bit afte the way in which she was treated. I was hurt for her and embarrased by those who would wear Christ's name and then act in such an unloving and unChrist-like manner:(

Well, good then we--the Ex-Christians--could give Maynoda a good home, since Christianity failed her.

 

That's wonderful! I'm sure she could do with some good love right now:)

[hereticzero]

Sensual-Spiritualist milksop.

Seen it before in charasmatic churches.

New Age Shamon or shame-on?

Seeking a quest?

Vision dialog?

Feeling the need to share true-Christian® love and concern for a wrong you did not commit? That is characteristic of Münchausen syndrome but in your case it has to do with spiritual affliction rather than medical but you still get your attention for your undying sympathy for others. God bless you, crying towels on the left, now off you go ... Go nest some where else.

[Lady Wolf]

Sensual-Spiritualist milksop.

Seen it before in charasmatic churches.

New Age Shamon or shame-on?

Seeking a quest?

Vision dialog?

Feeling the need to share true-Christian® love and concern for a wrong you did not commit? That is characteristic of Münchausen syndrome but in your case it has to do with spiritual affliction rather than medical but you still get your attention for your undying sympathy for others. God bless you, crying towels on the left, now off you go ... Go nest some where else.

 

Hmmm Ya know...if I didn't know better, I'd almost think you're afraid of me. Is this true? Afraid of little ole me?? LOL! But seriously..all joking aside, throw any labels you want on me. I stand by my character, and who knows, I might just stick around for a while, this place intrigues me;)

[Skeptic]

...We must always remember to love one another and show tolerance and respect to those with different views and beliefs than our own.

 

Maynoda, please except this sincere apology and may we all learn to be more loving and tolerant.

 

Why should we be tolerant of beliefs that are not based on factual evidence? I'm not tolerant of the incorrect belief that the world is flat. We all know the world is round. Christianity is no different. There is no empirical evidence for your god--actually, there's mounds of evidence that prove that your god does not exist--so why should anyone automatically tolerate your belief? I will tolerate and even accept the right to hold the belief and the person him/herself, but not the belief.

[Vixentrox]

I think she is sincere in her own mind about the apology though it's also misguided to some degree. I also don't think it matters a whole lot. The majority of us on this site have been Christians, been wronged by Christians, and have been victimized by it, and have been on the other side of the patronizing of things for which we regret. The apology about "un-Christian" like behavior is kinda like an SS doctor apologizing for the horrible train ride to the death camps but then selecting them for the gas chamber anyway. Christians often apologize for the "fake Christians" without even understanding that to some other sect, they themselves are the "fake Christians".

[Caretaker]

Lady Wolf~

 

Please do understand that with this being a forum for people who have left Christianity, some here have developed a certain distrust of Christians who come here and may often interpret a Christian's first motive here as being to try to bring them back to Christianity. After all, members here have come here seeing this as a sanctuary, some having been scarred by mistreatment (which you have acknowledged).

 

While I personally do not mind constructive dialog here with a Christian, I just hope you keep in mind that there are those members here who tend to be suspicious of a Christian's motive here.

 

Of course, you will also find others who are more open to having a certain level of dialogue with Christians here as well.

 

Some are interested in being able to establish good relations. I certainly don't choose my neighbor's religion, but I certainly would like to be on good terms with my neighbors regardless of any difference in our beliefs.

 

Other than that, I would certainly welcome your presence here.

 

~Caretaker

[Lady Wolf]

...We must always remember to love one another and show tolerance and respect to those with different views and beliefs than our own.

 

Maynoda, please except this sincere apology and may we all learn to be more loving and tolerant.

 

Why should we be tolerant of beliefs that are not based on factual evidence? I'm not tolerant of the incorrect belief that the world is flat. We all know the world is round. Christianity is no different. There is no empirical evidence for your god--actually, there's mounds of evidence that prove that your god does not exist--so why should anyone automatically tolerate your belief? I will tolerate and even accept the right to hold the belief and the person him/herself, but not the belief.

 

Right...that is what I meant. you simply put it more succinctly than I did. Thank you:)

[Lady Wolf]

I think she is sincere in her own mind about the apology though it's also misguided to some degree. I also don't think it matters a whole lot. The majority of us on this site have been Christians, been wronged by Christians, and have been victimized by it, and have been on the other side of the patronizing of things for which we regret. The apology about "un-Christian" like behavior is kinda like an SS doctor apologizing for the horrible train ride to the death camps but then selecting them for the gas chamber anyway. Christians often apologize for the "fake Christians" without even understanding that to some other sect, they themselves are the "fake Christians".

 

Hmmm interesting way of viewing a sincere apology. If you are using gas chamber as a euphamism to describe the hell doctrin that many Christians stand by, than you would be wrong. I myself have many questions about Hell. I don't hold to the place of eternal torture that many do. I simply cannot reconcile that with a loving God. It makes absolutely no sense to me. A just god would have no reason to punish endlessly with no lesson to be learned from it. What would be the point beyond sadism?? And If I could never conceive of doing such a thing to my worst enemy...how can I be more just than my own creator? OTOH if you're not refering to the hell doctrin, than I'm afraid you've lost me lol! Then again, it's late and my brain's not working too well right now. Would you care to elaborate?

[Lady Wolf]

Lady Wolf~

 

Please do understand that with this being a forum for people who have left Christianity, some here have developed a certain distrust of Christians who come here and may often interpret a Christian's first motive here as being to try to bring them back to Christianity. After all, members here have come here seeing this as a sanctuary, some having been scarred by mistreatment (which you have acknowledged).

 

While I personally do not mind constructive dialog here with a Christian, I just hope you keep in mind that there are those members here who tend to be suspicious of a Christian's motive here.

 

Of course, you will also find others who are more open to having a certain level of dialogue with Christians here as well.

 

Some are interested in being able to establish good relations. I certainly don't choose my neighbor's religion, but I certainly would like to be on good terms with my neighbors regardless of any difference in our beliefs.

 

Other than that, I would certainly welcome your presence here.

 

~Caretaker

 

Hello Caretaker and thank you so much for your explanation of this forum and your very warm welcome:)

 

I came here expecting to be treated exactly as I have been, but the point is, I came anyway, because a wrong needed to be put right. I also registered here because that is the only way the wrong could be righted. I have responded back using my sense of humor to deal with some of the barbs thrown my way, as I do understand that when people are hurt they tend to not trust others, and they tend to strike out at others. I do understand that. I've come from a pretty rough background myself, but that background has taught me to have a tough skin. Over the years I've learned to try to temper that toughness with humor and kindness where I can.

 

It's good to know that there are people such as yourself willing to extend an olive branch to a potentially harmful stranger. I can assure you I'm not and I have a deep respect for everyone's personal journey they're on, regardless of what form it takes. We all need to find our way do we not?

[Deva]

Wait...are you saying that my apology is disengenuous and fake, or Christianity in general?

 

Both -- but actually what I mostly had in mind was the "apology".

 

 

If Christianity in general, all I can tell you, is that unfortunately, one's beliefs and how others views them is in the eye of the beholder. I also think that it might not be wise to lump one's character with one's choice of religion;) We all stand or fall on our characters, and those same characters either mirror their beliefs, be they true beliefs or false.

 

Just don't even bother with the sincerity act. It won't fly here. You bet your bippy its in the eye of the beholder, but Christianity makes claims that are far beyond something like viewing a picture. If I lump character with a choice of religion, its only because of my personal experience with Christians.

 

I came here to apologize to one who was wrongfully persecuted and treated quite badly. Why? Because I disagreed with how she was treated and wanted her to know it.

 

Does that now mean you can leave?

 

I don't play nice lol, as a rule I try to be nice and show respect to everyone. Life is too short to creat negative energy and gain pleasure at the expense of another's pain don't you think? No fantasies here, just trying to show a little love and respect for my fellow man, or in this case woman;)

 

Blah, Blah,.....

 

Thanks for responding. Maynoda has seen my apology on the other forum and we are back in communication...life is good:D

 

So now you will leave?

[Antlerman]

Lady Wolf~

 

Please do understand that with this being a forum for people who have left Christianity, some here have developed a certain distrust of Christians who come here and may often interpret a Christian's first motive here as being to try to bring them back to Christianity. After all, members here have come here seeing this as a sanctuary, some having been scarred by mistreatment (which you have acknowledged).

 

While I personally do not mind constructive dialog here with a Christian, I just hope you keep in mind that there are those members here who tend to be suspicious of a Christian's motive here.

 

Of course, you will also find others who are more open to having a certain level of dialogue with Christians here as well.

 

Some are interested in being able to establish good relations. I certainly don't choose my neighbor's religion, but I certainly would like to be on good terms with my neighbors regardless of any difference in our beliefs.

 

<snip>

It's good to know that there are people such as yourself willing to extend an olive branch to a potentially harmful stranger. I can assure you I'm not and I have a deep respect for everyone's personal journey they're on, regardless of what form it takes. We all need to find our way do we not?

I appreciate Caretaker's words. I agree with them and they express my feelings as well. Everyone is at different places in their post-Christian experience (I liken it to the various stages of moving beyond a failed long-term relationship in ones life), others simply just dislike the views in general, perhaps never even having been involved themselves and are happy having nothing to do with it. There is no one-size fits all "believer" or "non-believer".

 

Personality for me, diversity is the name of the game, and my personality is one that isn't comfortable in becoming "comfortable" with any one set of beliefs as "the truth". There's truth in everything for me, just as there's error in everything. And I refuse to simply settle for trading one set of religious thought for another. There's too much in life to put up fences around it. And that explains why I left Christianity as a system and why I reject any system of thought that claims to be true because all others false. There's too much wonder and beauty in the world to plumb to put up walls around it, slapping labels on it as "true" or "false", motivated by a desire to be faithful to ones ideological camp.

 

Now that said, that you see the failings of those in your camp that you associate with as an embarrassment is telling to me on a certain level. You can correct me of course, but you seem to see how they behave as reflective of you on some level; that them acting as intolerant, suspicious, ill-mannered, unkind, stubborn, closed-minded, persecuting, in a word - religious, somehow weakens your beliefs by association. You don't see their behavior as reflective of what being Christian means to you and feel a need to defend the belief system by apologizing for those adherents to it whose behaviors don't reflect your beliefs within the same system.

 

Here's the point. That their behavior as a social group disturbs you reveals that your "faith" in it is in fact tied to it as a social system. Christianity is not really as much about a personal belief in God and your individual religious experience, as it is a social experience. Now, with that said, do you see that calling it "the truth", with the singular, exclusionary language, is really more a matter of symbolic rhetoric and not a factual thing? And that the insistence on that is really more about defining social camps, rather than establishing a basis for knowledge and understanding? I see no difference in the secular camp labeling and branding religious symbolic thought as "false". It's all about defining social groups, not pursuing knowledge and wisdom.

 

I'm hardly laying down much of a groundwork here for this, but I guess what I'm getting it is wanting to ask do you see that perhaps what you're seeing in the social group you're a part of that you see as faulted, might simply be symptomatic of a larger issue? That maybe its not a question of believing the truth, as it is about opening up our belief systems to allow for greater understandings? Do you think that the rhetoric of "the truth" in the singular is more problematic in this current culture than helpful? Do see your friend's bad behavior as reflective of greater problem, not just "fallen humanity", but a broken social system?

 

Not sure how well I put my thoughts together in this post, but I'll toss it out there and see if it sticks...

[chefranden]

... I simply cannot reconcile that with a loving God. It makes absolutely no sense to me. A just god would have no reason to punish endlessly with no lesson to be learned from it. What would be the point beyond sadism?? And If I could never conceive of doing such a thing to my worst enemy...how can I be more just than my own creator? OTOH if you're not refering to the hell doctrin, than I'm afraid you've lost me lol! Then again, it's late and my brain's not working too well right now. Would you care to elaborate?

 

Oh oh, that's how Ex-Christianity starts. First you see one thing is absurd then it's another. After awhile it's the whole shebang. Welcome to Ex-Christian.

[hereticzero]

I think she is sincere in her own mind about the apology though it's also misguided to some degree. I also don't think it matters a whole lot. The majority of us on this site have been Christians, been wronged by Christians, and have been victimized by it, and have been on the other side of the patronizing of things for which we regret. The apology about "un-Christian" like behavior is kinda like an SS doctor apologizing for the horrible train ride to the death camps but then selecting them for the gas chamber anyway. Christians often apologize for the "fake Christians" without even understanding that to some other sect, they themselves are the "fake Christians".

 

Hmmm interesting way of viewing a sincere apology. If you are using gas chamber as a euphamism to describe the hell doctrin that many Christians stand by, than you would be wrong. I myself have many questions about Hell. I don't hold to the place of eternal torture that many do. I simply cannot reconcile that with a loving God. It makes absolutely no sense to me. A just god would have no reason to punish endlessly with no lesson to be learned from it. What would be the point beyond sadism?? And If I could never conceive of doing such a thing to my worst enemy...how can I be more just than my own creator? OTOH if you're not refering to the hell doctrin, than I'm afraid you've lost me lol! Then again, it's late and my brain's not working too well right now. Would you care to elaborate?

This is typical of a fundy troller. Any comment we make gives them license for a sermon, this one is about hell. This is how they get their hooks into the forum. Hell was not mentioned in the OP but the fundy uses the comment to make a sermon. What trollers do is they collect answers made on different forums and they then sit down and make up a script they use to approach boards. We make a comment, they respond with doctrine, make another response and they will try to use more doctrine and if you ask them to clarify a statement, they will go into a gyration to connect the last two posts with their doctrine. Ignore it and it will go away.