A Sincere Apology

[chefranden]

So Christ instructs us to live Christ like. So how is that different than any other teacher of good? The teachings have no more effect on the good than any other teacher of good. So what is special about it?

 

For me Chef, it's because, unlike the others; Jesus claimed one of the oldest forms of God/religion, as His God. That's why He is special.

 

Well you might have a point if Jesus was claiming the oldest form of religion. But there are older forms in history, and probably thousands of even older forms in pre-history. Did Lucy believe in Jesus? Did Neanderthals have souls? If age is the criteria, Krishnah should be your man/god.

[Deva]

...unlike the others; Jesus claimed one of the oldest forms of God/religion, as His God. That's why He is special.

 

 

What do you mean by "claimed"? What is your view of Jesus? After all, most Christians would say he WAS and IS God.

 

Or, is it that he is just special because you view him as special and no other reason?

 

You must be aware that there are older forms of God/religions still surviving today.

[Lady Wolf]

If Hell was all about complete and total separation from God, then that is what Jesus had to endure, because that is OUR punishment. And if He was the sacrificial lamb, than the sacrifice had to be completely satisfied.

 

Incorrect. OUR punishment (based on the doctrine) is eternal suffering. When we die....we tend to stay dead. There was no true sacrifice at all in the story. There was a three day "inconvenience". The character jesus does not stay dead, he returns to life then ascends to heaven returning to his father. Or is the 33 years of Jesus existing on earth supposed to be the sacrifice? Still doesn't add up to eternity.

 

How does three days in hell = a sacrifice completely satisfied? Common lambs, doves, and oxen of the era endured a more complete sacrificial procedure than the jesus character does.

 

There was no sacrifice at all...unless writers choose to distort the meaning of words and encourage their followers to do likewise...which they do.

 

Ummm I fail to see where we disagree here?? LOL! I think you and I are on the same page? Maybe I'm missing something??

[Lady Wolf]

I think she is sincere in her own mind about the apology though it's also misguided to some degree. I also don't think it matters a whole lot. The majority of us on this site have been Christians, been wronged by Christians, and have been victimized by it, and have been on the other side of the patronizing of things for which we regret. The apology about "un-Christian" like behavior is kinda like an SS doctor apologizing for the horrible train ride to the death camps but then selecting them for the gas chamber anyway. Christians often apologize for the "fake Christians" without even understanding that to some other sect, they themselves are the "fake Christians".

 

Hmmm interesting way of viewing a sincere apology. If you are using gas chamber as a euphamism to describe the hell doctrin that many Christians stand by, than you would be wrong. I myself have many questions about Hell. I don't hold to the place of eternal torture that many do. I simply cannot reconcile that with a loving God. It makes absolutely no sense to me. A just god would have no reason to punish endlessly with no lesson to be learned from it. What would be the point beyond sadism?? And If I could never conceive of doing such a thing to my worst enemy...how can I be more just than my own creator? OTOH if you're not refering to the hell doctrin, than I'm afraid you've lost me lol! Then again, it's late and my brain's not working too well right now. Would you care to elaborate?

If you do not believe in hell, what do you need to be saved from? Why a savior? Could you concieve of the other atrocities your god committed in the Old Testament? If Jesus and the Father are one then Jesus is just as guilty of the crimes is he not? Or do you also reject that Trinity doctorine? Are you even sure you are a Christian and not some sort of cultist heritic?

 

Good questions! LOL...to be completely honest with you, I'm not comfortable with labels. I call myself a Christian, because I believe in Jesus Christ. I may not know or understand much of what is in the Bible as I've already pointed out on here I believe, but I'm not about to throw the baby out with the bathwater simply because I don't understand it all at this point in my life. I am, however, willing to keep searching for the truth...

 

with that said, I'll try to answer your questions.

 

Salvation is about being saved from being eternally separated from God. Regardless of the form that takes, either punishment and then inihilation, or just eternal separation in a spiritually separate place. Does not sound like a state or place I would want to be in, that is for certain!

 

I believe, the question about why a Savior speaks to the first question of needing salvation. Aside from that, According to the tennants of Christianity and what is written in the Bible, I, in my fallen state, can not save myself. My rightousness is like filthy rags to God. And that is speaking about my best efforts! That is why a holy sacrifice had to be satisfied in my stead.

 

I accept the Trinity doctrin.

 

I'm always searching, always learning and always growing. I am an imperfect and sinful creature. I acknowlege it and I accept it. But I also acknowlege and accept the divine plan for my redemption from this curse.

 

So, you DO accept the fact that Jesus is a torturing murdering bastard then. The God of the OT that confuses you and Jesus are one in the same. Therefore your "savior" is worse than Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, and Kim Jong Il combined. Are you happy to worship such a monster? And why did god require a "holy sacrifice"? Is he not all powerful? Is he so fucking warped that he would demand such a thing? Do you demand human sacrifice before YOU forgive someone?

 

My response was in reference to redemption of sin and the curse. I do not yet know for certain what the consequences of that curse are, and I have yet, as I believe I've already stated, to understand and reconcile the glaring differences in character between the god of the OT and Jesus Christ of the NT.

[Lady Wolf]

From what I am reading, LadyWolf is a Christian that believes in hell, but doesn't believe it is eternal. That is the only spot she parts with orthodoxy. In every other respect, a total Christian. Believes the atonement, sin and the eternal separation thing from God, salvation, the Trinity, all the other stuff. Nothing complex or particularly thought provoking here. No new twist or new exploration of Christianity. Same old thing.

 

Mainstream Christianiaity would probably see me as NOT a "true" Christian based on my doctrinal stand or should I say lack thereof?

 

Oh yes they would. Any mainline Protestant church would welcome you with open arms. Their churches are packed with people who don't like one or two particular Christian doctrines. Now there are some radical fundy churches that might throw you out.

 

I think you said something about "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". No danger of that. You are still bathing happily together.

 

You won't get any insights from prayer while your mind continues to be influenced by the Bible. Throw the Book out, then we can talk.

 

Again...labels can be very confusing and mean several different things to different people, based on their pre-conceived notions. For example the label of Christian for a Catholic vs. a Protestant bears a completely different meaning. The same thing happens if you compare two different protestants such as a Babtist vs. a Covenantist. My own personal walk has to do with what I beleive and what I don't believe about the tennants of the faith. Those beliefs are based on personal spiritual experiences and common sense.

[Lady Wolf]

Hello, I really like your avatar! But I'd like it even more if it said, "he wants his truth back." Sadly religion has muddied the water so much that His true message has been all but lost I'm afraid:( Much like the Pharisese muddied the old law to the point that it became so legalistic noone could follow it. I'm afraid that we will never learn. :sigh:

 

Thanks be to Paul.

 

I've heard this refered to as "Pauline theology" or "Pauline doctrin." Will you expound on what you know? This is certainly a man seemingly out of left field based on his background of persecuting Christians, but then again we're told that God can use a "bad vessal" for good sometimes, case in point how God hardened Pharohs heart in order to show both the Children of Israel and the Egyptions His power. I respectfully reserve judgement on this one. But would love to discuss it if you'd like?

[Guest adonisai]

Hi All

I don't mean to bring the drama that I have been experiencing over at that other website to this website but I want to run something by you all. And thanks so much for all of you who posted to me. You don't know what this means to me. Anyway, here comes my long winded story. Lady Wolf came here and apologized for the way I was treated over there. Basically, what I did was take some verses from the Bible and try to prove that the God of the Bible is not such a nice "person." For instance, I quoted some Numbers Scriptures. Things like: "God's people kill like a lion and then drink the blood of the slain." (Numbers 23:24) Or God sending fiery serpents to kill his chosen people. (Numbers 21:6) And a man driving a spear through an interracial couple which was then rewarded by God. (Numbers 25:10-13) And God killing all the Egyptian babies. (Numbers 33:4) God commanding the Israelites to stone a man for picking up sticks on the sabbath. (Numbers 15:32-36) God killing those who murmured against him. (Numbers 14:36-37)

 

I just asked some basic questions like how can you love this God who kills men, women and children so willingly and, of course, I was met with insults. And, of course, no one could really answer that question. How they manage to "love" a God like this is beyond me? So I was told that I was a Nephilim again and that I was a fallen angel that had been bred with a woman or some other crazy shit, to tell you the truth I can barely read these posts without gagging. I was told I had no chance to be saved because Nephilim can't be saved. And some man then went on about how demons came to him last night and shouted at him. This is some strange website, let me tell you. I had mentioned that I am angry at Christians and this is the major reason. They just won't listen to reason or logic. And if you quote Scripture right to them, they turn that against you. It is really the oddest thing in the world to me. The God in that Bible makes Hitler look like a little pussy cat but they LOVE him. Go figure.

 

ANYWAY, I just wanted to mention something about Lady Wolf who has been posting here. As I mentioned, she seemed to be my "friend" at first but I just want to quote something at this website and run this past you and see what you think. One man posted this to her today: "There is a group of followers of the Darkness who have a simple agenda to eliminate all that Christianity stands for...once you understand this agenda, you can release it unto God. Hope this helps you." To which Lady Wolf ANSWERED: "It really does when you put it like this. In other words, it's not my battle. It's not something I have to own. I am merely the planter of the seed and then my job is done. It is His job to water and nuture the seed. I hope that in the future, I can remember this. It's not what I do, rather it is what He does through me...may He give all of us the wisdom of Solomon in these final days."

 

OKAY, now I am thinking that this Lady Wolf really is a wolf in sheep's clothing. She comes on pretending to defend me and yet her attitude is something completely different over there. She posted several times over there today and her posts were all like that one above. So I am a little pissed and thinking that she thinks I am some Nephilim as well. To me this is very manipulative and mean-spirited. I don't know if she thinks I don't read what she writes or maybe she is a little loo-loo in the head. But whatever it is, I don't think it is a good idea to trust her. And feel free to say whatever you want to her, you certainly will not offend me. In fact, I hope she doesn't really come here anymore and stays over there with her friends. Anyway, thanks for listening and I'm just giving you a warning. I wouldn't waste my time on her.

[Abiyoyo]

So what is your point? It still doesn't answer the questions. So what if God is able to resist Satan? One would expect this to be the case. If a disciple in the physical presence of Jesus can't resist Satan, how does Jesus' resistance help you? You still can't resist Satan so what are you saved from?

 

The beast and the false prophet, because Jesus already warned us about that.

[Lady Wolf]

The Apostles’ and the Athanasian Creeds both confess Christ’s Descent into Hell. However, the Descent was not into torment, since the payment for our sins was completed on the cross. This is why Jesus could say, “It is finished.” His true agony was expressed in the words, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? (Mt 27:46)” Jesus’ quote from Psalm 22 underscores the seriousness with which God views human transgression. He made Jesus, who knew no sin, to be sin for us (cf. 2 Cor 5:21) — and He then punished that sin with ruthlessness. Being abandoned by God must be the greatest torment that even Hell has to offer, yet Jesus willingly accepted this to bring us reconciliation with his Father.

But that's what the creeds say. It's not what the scriptures say about it. How can Jesus be both God and sin at the same time? God is supposed to be perfect, but you're saying Jesus who was God in the flesh became sin and immorality. So, that would mean God is not perfect and God sinned.

 

If Hell was all about complete and total separation from God, then that is what Jesus had to endure, because that is OUR punishment. And if He was the sacrificial lamb, than the sacrifice had to be completely satisfied.

If hell is separation from God, yet Jesus is God at the same time, how can God be separated from himself?

 

 

I do believe in Hell or a place of punishment for the wicked, but I don't believe it is eternal as far as how long it lasts. I think that it is based on each person's life and how they lived it here on Earth. If God is a "just" god as we are told all through out the Bible that He is, then it is the only thing that makes sense. A just god would not punish someone without end imho.

If you reject the traditional beliefs of hell as being eternal, why not just go all the way and disbelieve in any hell? Why is a temporary hell more moral than eternal hell? If it's immoral for God to torture people for all eternity, why is it more moral to torture people temporarily? We consider it immoral to torture people in this life. Why is hell somehow justice? You might want to watch this video about hell by the Christian bishop John Shelby Spong:

Even though you believe in a temporary hell, I think this video still will be applicable to you.

 

To me, sin means anything that is contrary to God's new testament law of "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and all thy soul and all thy might, and love one another."

How do you define loving God?

 

I guess one would be compelled to define "torture." We throw people in prison in order that justice be served. I'm sure many people would consider those prison sentences torture. If they weren't unpleasent, then there woul be no deterrant correct? With all of the symbolism used in the Bible, we have no way of knowing what EXACTLY Hell is. A God of justice, must punish sin. Otherwise the tyrants of the past that you named would get away with all kinds of evil, and where then is justice in that? No, one way or the other, those who refuse to turn away from sin and refuse to except the plan of redemption offered to them through the sacrifice, leave God no other choice but to pay for their own sinful ways. The justness of it measures the punishment against the sin imho.

 

I define a loving God as one who rights the wrongs, and replaces sin and hate with love and laws of obediance based on that love for Him and for one another.

[Lady Wolf]

Oh oh, that's how Ex-Christianity starts. First you see one thing is absurd then it's another. After awhile it's the whole shebang. Welcome to Ex-Christian.

 

Sometimes I think I almost bought the t-shirt.....leave now lady before it's too late!

 

Hello end 3 LOL! warning noted, however I think I might stick around for a bit. I'm rather enjoying getting to know all of you:) Is that your little guy in your avatar? What a cutie! "I can too drive!" Reminds me of my oldest. At the age of 4 she wanted to drive and she knew how! And no one could tell her otherwise hehehe 21 now and hasn't changed a bit! She's a real type A personality. She's been a real blessing to us:) She's in college now majoring in nursing. Wants to become a flight nurse and believe you me she'll do it too! I pity the first doctor who crosses her path! LOL!!!

 

 

leave now before you are an ex-christian, they are exceptionally persuasive with their loquacious dialectic. I only remain a christian by hiding in seclusion and reading the Bible to abrogate their philosophy.

 

Also, nursing is a great field of choice.

 

Yes, and during these tough economic times it is a field that so far remains unaffected...

 

Your warning is noted, but to stick one's head in the sand does not change the thoughts and ideas prevalent in the world that one inhabits;) Knowlege can never be wrong if it is truth:)

[Abiyoyo]

So what is your point? It still doesn't answer the questions. So what if God is able to resist Satan? One would expect this to be the case. If disciple in the physical presence of Jesus can't resist Satan, how does Jesus' resistance help you? You still can't resist Satan so what are you saved from?

 

Jesus's salvation is through the Holy Spirit, not the flesh. Kingdom is within us? He will send the Spirit to show us the truth? Spiritual matter here Chef, not physical. Paul says we must die to the flesh and be born again. Peter says we should be perfect, as God is perfect. Yet, we are not, in flesh. In spirit though, we are able to via the death of Jesus and anointing of the Holy Spirit on mankind, that believed in Him.

 

 

The only way you can say something so idiotic is due to your obvious ignorance and disregard (seasoned with a maybe hint of subconscious rascism) of the MAJORITY of religions that predate those beliefs.

 

Go to Godchecker.com and read every single entry. THEN come back here and be stupid.

 

WR, I have read upon read upon read through this site. I know it's not THE oldest, that is why I said, ONE of the oldest. But, it is the oldest one, still largely current that has a Messiah, as to Jesus Christ. No?

[Lady Wolf]

Hello, I really like your avatar! But I'd like it even more if it said, "he wants his truth back." Sadly religion has muddied the water so much that His true message has been all but lost I'm afraid:( Much like the Pharisese muddied the old law to the point that it became so legalistic noone could follow it. I'm afraid that we will never learn. :sigh:

 

So what's the problem? Why doesn't he get his truth back? Do you have it? If you do, it is kinda sad that you are holding out on him. However, being the God of life, the universe, and everything, one would think that he wouldn't even have lost his truth in the first place. Forty-two skidoo

 

I guess that free will kind of throws a monkey wrench into things on many levels;)

[Lady Wolf]

...I do believe in the super naturel, miracles, broken laws of nature etc. But when it comes to beliefs in general such as doctrinal viewpoints, it needs to add up, or I'm not buying into it...

 

But miracles don't need to add up? How do you add up the earth stopping its angular momentum for a few hours or even reversing it? Physics needs to add up. Doctrine doesn't, because it is horseshit to start with. One can say anything in a fairy tale, but you can't fuck with the laws of physics for real.

 

Sorry but the fundies are right once you get rid of hell, you have nothing left. That is the baby you think you are not throwing out. I know you are big on experience, well this is my experience. If you really are big on knowing what is real*, you will figure this out eventually. One of your studies ought to be physics.

 

*I'm using real instead of truth, because there seems to be 6 billion or more view of truth.

 

Maybe this will clarify my point...do you think that if someone from say the 16th. century time traveled to today and saw a televison, would that person not think that television a miracle? Is it a miracle? Maybe to their minds because it defies 100% of everything they've ever known. But we know it today as simply an advance in technology, not a miracle. Don't you think it's possible that we could be the equivalent of that same "imature" mind with resect to knowege light years ahead of us?

[white_raven23]

WR, I have read upon read upon read through this site. I know it's not THE oldest, that is why I said, ONE of the oldest. But, it is the oldest one, still largely current that has a Messiah, as to Jesus Christ. No?

 

 

Good lord YoYo, the Jesus character is an composite blend of prior Savior myths. Nothing about him is original.

[Lady Wolf]

Hi Maynoda/Adonisai:)

 

LOL! Ok now you've got me confused. Which would you prefer to go by? I'm glad you decided to post. I do appreciate the support, but to be quite honest with you, the 'lions' here haven't been too bad lol. You know it's amazing how much more you can learn when you visit the other "camps" it broadens the mind and stretches the possibilities:) Anyway...hope you too can sort through a few things while here.

 

A mind is indeed a terrible thing to waste!

[Abiyoyo]

Well you might have a point if Jesus was claiming the oldest form of religion. But there are older forms in history, and probably thousands of even older forms in pre-history. Did Lucy believe in Jesus? Did Neanderthals have souls? If age is the criteria, Krishnah should be your man/god.

 

Krishna of Hinduism, What about it? What does that have to do with Jesus?

 

 

What do you mean by "claimed"? What is your view of Jesus? After all, most Christians would say he WAS and IS God.

 

Or, is it that he is just special because you view him as special and no other reason?

 

You must be aware that there are older forms of God/religions still surviving today.

 

Jesus was sent, just as Elijah was sent. Jesus even said himself, I came already three times, right? Jesus was God's son, whom He was well pleased. I do believe Jesus is of God as it is in the trinity. But, I do also believe he was flesh as well, claiming heritage to God of Israel. Right? To the people Deva, He claimed heritage to the God of Israel, to His people. He was 'of' this God.

[Abiyoyo]

Good lord YoYo, the Jesus character is an composite blend of prior Savior myths. Nothing about him is original.

 

Is that a fact?

[Lady Wolf]

If you do not believe in hell, what do you need to be saved from? Why a savior? Could you concieve of the other atrocities your god committed in the Old Testament? If Jesus and the Father are one then Jesus is just as guilty of the crimes is he not? Or do you also reject that Trinity doctorine? Are you even sure you are a Christian and not some sort of cultist heritic?

 

Our own hedonism and egocentrism. I feel altruism benefits the self and society as a whole. Would you not agree?

 

How does that work? How does Jesus save one from hedonism and egocentrism? What good does it do to be free of hedonism and egocentrism in heaven? I know that Jesus does nothing about these things here. What would be the point of being altruistic in heaven? Everything is taken care of there, isn't it? Rather than waiting for everyone to be altruistic, why doesn't God just see that everyone has enough? He owns all the stuff, right? Other than the touchy feelly stuff that folks of any religion often experience -- where is God/Jesus evident as a savior?

 

I feel that the primary bulk of his teachings is self denial of self self-centeredness, therefore I would conclude that Jesus would consider partaking in debaucheries to be sinful. Hence, in a Christian theology, Jesus holds an altruistic characteristic in high regards on earth.

 

As far as these traits being present on absent in heaven, I can't answer this for you.

 

Well the Buddha taught this too. Is he the savior? Obviously Jesus hasn't taken care of the self-centeredness problem on earth. Therefore he hasn't saved anything. The best you could say is that he was a teacher of "the good". But he is not the only one.

 

Usually a Christian is saved from hell not from his/her bad behavior in spite of shit loads of christian testimony to the contrary. You have to wait until death for salvation from hell, so I suppose that you have to wait for heaven for salvation from bad behavior -- if that is what it is about.

 

But why do you have to wait for the afterlife? Why is it only in heaven that Jesus can modify your behavior? Would you make the free will excuse for this? If so what happens to free will in heaven? Is it taken away? Are people somehow good in spite of free will? Why does God wait until heaven before doing this? Why not do it now? All it takes for evil to triumph is for a Good God to do nothing.

 

I'm glad you asked this question. It is one of those that has been plagueing me as well...for now my answer would have to be that their is a time for every purpose under Heaven as well as the universe? We are currently in the age of free will, sin and redemption (in that order). In the new age to come, we will be under different "laws." Perhaps the law of love? I certainly hope so. We are told that He will wipe away every tear of our eyes and sin and it's consequences i.e. war, illness, death, disease will be no more.

[Abiyoyo]

I've heard this refered to as "Pauline theology" or "Pauline doctrin." Will you expound on what you know? This is certainly a man seemingly out of left field based on his background of persecuting Christians, but then again we're told that God can use a "bad vessal" for good sometimes, case in point how God hardened Pharohs heart in order to show both the Children of Israel and the Egyptions His power. I respectfully reserve judgement on this one. But would love to discuss it if you'd like?

 

Paul was influenced by Greek philosophy, and goes a bit different than Jesus's teachings. I read Paul's writings, and learn from them; but I do not use it a the infallible word of God, because it's not. It's Paul's teachings, that incorporate Jesus.

[Deva]

Jesus was sent, just as Elijah was sent. Jesus even said himself, I came already three times, right? Jesus was God's son, whom He was well pleased. I do believe Jesus is of God as it is in the trinity. But, I do also believe he was flesh as well, claiming heritage to God of Israel. Right? To the people Deva, He claimed heritage to the God of Israel, to His people. He was 'of' this God.

 

Well yoyo, that seems like a very orthodox Christian position to me. So he was fully human and at the same time fully God. That would be the trinity.

[Guest adonisai]

I love the fake humility, Lady Wolf. Anyway, you know who you are. Or do you? Because you seem to be a little confused yourself. You seem like you're with the best of friends over there at the real Lion's Den. If you want to post here, that's great. But don't try to be something you're not.

 

Maybe you will find out that what you think is true, isn't really true at all. And that would be wonderful. So I hope you DO stay here, come to think of it. The mind really IS a terrible thing to waste.

[white_raven23]

Good lord YoYo, the Jesus character is an composite blend of prior Savior myths. Nothing about him is original.

 

Is that a fact?

 

 

Google Jesus Origins yourself.

 

Or quit playing dumb. Someone, sometime during your tenure here someone has posted links, book titles, and whatnot. I'm not re-posting information you've already been offered. If you actually want to know, you will do your OWN homework. And if you don't want to know, you wouldn't have bothered to click any links I might have taken MY time to compile anyway.

[chefranden]

So what is your point? It still doesn't answer the questions. So what if God is able to resist Satan? One would expect this to be the case. If a disciple in the physical presence of Jesus can't resist Satan, how does Jesus' resistance help you? You still can't resist Satan so what are you saved from?

 

Jesus's salvation is through the Holy Spirit, not the flesh. Kingdom is within us? He will send the Spirit to show us the truth? Spiritual matter here Chef, not physical. Paul says we must die to the flesh and be born again. Peter says we should be perfect, as God is perfect. Yet, we are not, in flesh. In spirit though, we are able to via the death of Jesus and anointing of the Holy Spirit on mankind, that believed in Him.

 

I think that you are drifting about in lala land with those that still think that angels are still fucking human women. What is this a bad left behind novel?

 

So is this like Watchman Nee and you are already seated with Christ at right hand of god, but somehow you are connected to the physical still? Your spirit (soul?) is sinless but nevertheless you still sin?

 

Do you notice that you are making ever more convoluted and meaningless statements? Are you serious or pulling my leg? I can't really tell.

[Abiyoyo]

Google Jesus Origins yourself.

 

Or quit playing dumb. Someone, sometime during your tenure here someone has posted links, book titles, and whatnot. I'm not re-posting information you've already been offered. If you actually want to know, you will do your OWN homework. And if you don't want to know, you wouldn't have bothered to click any links I might have taken MY time to compile anyway.

 

If I hadn't read them already, I would've. How many times have you, or anyone else here told me this, ...to be factual, regardless that they see I have been here, and have probably read about it. They all are different with similarities to Christ, and some, with further research, you will find are bogus.

[Abiyoyo]

So is this like Watchman Nee and you are already seated with Christ at right hand of god, but somehow you are connected to the physical still? Your spirit (soul?) is sinless but nevertheless you still sin?

 

Possibly. Maybe that's why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable?

 

Do you notice that you are making ever more convoluted and meaningless statements? Are you serious or pulling my leg? I can't really tell

.

 

Thanks Chef.