A Sincere Apology

[Deva]

Again...labels can be very confusing and mean several different things to different people, based on their pre-conceived notions. For example the label of Christian for a Catholic vs. a Protestant bears a completely different meaning. The same thing happens if you compare two different protestants such as a Babtist vs. a Covenantist. My own personal walk has to do with what I beleive and what I don't believe about the tennants of the faith. Those beliefs are based on personal spiritual experiences and common sense.

 

I would not go so far as to say it is a "completely different meaning" between Catholic and Protestant. Yes, there are differences. The structure of the Church, and the authority of the Pope and the Church to interpret scripture is the major one. The actual method of salvation is another. But they are both widely referred to as "christian" because both of them do hold major beliefs in common, such as the nature of Christ, the atonement and the trinity.

 

You said:

 

Salvation is about being saved from being eternally separated from God. Regardless of the form that takes, either punishment and then inihilation, or just eternal separation in a spiritually separate place. Does not sound like a state or place I would want to be in, that is for certain!

 

I believe, the question about why a Savior speaks to the first question of needing salvation. Aside from that, According to the tennants of Christianity and what is written in the Bible, I, in my fallen state, can not save myself. My rightousness is like filthy rags to God. And that is speaking about my best efforts! That is why a holy sacrifice had to be satisfied in my stead.

 

I accept the Trinity doctrin.

 

These positions are not "based on personal spiritual experiences". No one by themselves thinks up positions like this. They are down the line based on historical orthodox Christian beliefs. Let's do be honest.

 

As far as common sense goes, the trinity has none of that, or perhaps you would care to explain it from your own unique personal perspective?

[Abiyoyo]

Well yoyo, that seems like a very orthodox Christian position to me. So he was fully human and at the same time fully God. That would be the trinity.

 

Tis what it Tis Deva, but that came from the YoYo Academy

[Lady Wolf]

Hi All

I don't mean to bring the drama that I have been experiencing over at that other website to this website but I want to run something by you all. And thanks so much for all of you who posted to me. You don't know what this means to me. Anyway, here comes my long winded story. Lady Wolf came here and apologized for the way I was treated over there. Basically, what I did was take some verses from the Bible and try to prove that the God of the Bible is not such a nice "person." For instance, I quoted some Numbers Scriptures. Things like: "God's people kill like a lion and then drink the blood of the slain." (Numbers 23:24) Or God sending fiery serpents to kill his chosen people. (Numbers 21:6) And a man driving a spear through an interracial couple which was then rewarded by God. (Numbers 25:10-13) And God killing all the Egyptian babies. (Numbers 33:4) God commanding the Israelites to stone a man for picking up sticks on the sabbath. (Numbers 15:32-36) God killing those who murmured against him. (Numbers 14:36-37)

 

I just asked some basic questions like how can you love this God who kills men, women and children so willingly and, of course, I was met with insults. And, of course, no one could really answer that question. How they manage to "love" a God like this is beyond me? So I was told that I was a Nephilim again and that I was a fallen angel that had been bred with a woman or some other crazy shit, to tell you the truth I can barely read these posts without gagging. I was told I had no chance to be saved because Nephilim can't be saved. And some man then went on about how demons came to him last night and shouted at him. This is some strange website, let me tell you. I had mentioned that I am angry at Christians and this is the major reason. They just won't listen to reason or logic. And if you quote Scripture right to them, they turn that against you. It is really the oddest thing in the world to me. The God in that Bible makes Hitler look like a little pussy cat but they LOVE him. Go figure.

 

ANYWAY, I just wanted to mention something about Lady Wolf who has been posting here. As I mentioned, she seemed to be my "friend" at first but I just want to quote something at this website and run this past you and see what you think. One man posted this to her today: "There is a group of followers of the Darkness who have a simple agenda to eliminate all that Christianity stands for...once you understand this agenda, you can release it unto God. Hope this helps you." To which Lady Wolf ANSWERED: "It really does when you put it like this. In other words, it's not my battle. It's not something I have to own. I am merely the planter of the seed and then my job is done. It is His job to water and nuture the seed. I hope that in the future, I can remember this. It's not what I do, rather it is what He does through me...may He give all of us the wisdom of Solomon in these final days."

 

OKAY, now I am thinking that this Lady Wolf really is a wolf in sheep's clothing. She comes on pretending to defend me and yet her attitude is something completely different over there. She posted several times over there today and her posts were all like that one above. So I am a little pissed and thinking that she thinks I am some Nephilim as well. To me this is very manipulative and mean-spirited. I don't know if she thinks I don't read what she writes or maybe she is a little loo-loo in the head. But whatever it is, I don't think it is a good idea to trust her. And feel free to say whatever you want to her, you certainly will not offend me. In fact, I hope she doesn't really come here anymore and stays over there with her friends. Anyway, thanks for listening and I'm just giving you a warning. I wouldn't waste my time on her.

 

Wow! I don't even know what to say to this. You could not be more wrong about me, and I'm just sorry you feel this way. I, like many others am searching for truth. During that search, if something that someone else says makes sense to me, then I will certainly comment on it. Just because I agreed with what was said about our role as a Christian, does not in any way shape or form change how I feel or felt about you. Have I planted a seed? I sincerely hope so, but if I did, it would have been a seed of question. To question everthing and to not close your mind to things just becasue you believe you've found your ultimate stance on Christianity. I do not think that you are a Nephilim Maynoda. That is not my place nor have I been given the discernment nor the authority to make such a call. I don't even know you! Why would I make a summation such as this without having ever met you? What I do sense, is that you are a confused person who just wants some solid concrete answers to some very good questions about Christianity. I'm not about to go brow beat you into eccepting any seed that I may have inadvertently planted. What you choose to do with any seed I may have planted whether deliberately or by way of my 'fruit' is between you and Him. I am not your judge, nor your teacher. That is completely out of my hands. How can I teach something that I'm not even rock solid in myself?

 

I think I've been perfectly open and honest with you regarding how I think that people with different beliefs can still treat each other with mutual respect and kindness. I believe that I have done this with you. What's more, I have even invited you to email me and told you where you could find my address. You could have chosen to take me up on that and question me about these things in private, but you instead chose to publicly slander me with lies about my very character. That is just wrong and I sincerely hope I've caused you to think about what you have done. There are other ways you could have handled this like coming directly to the source of your confusion and hurt, in private.

 

You have wrongfully slandered me on here Maynoda, and I don't think that is very nice. But nevermind. It is what it is. I don't hate you for it, rather I love you in all of your faults. Do you know why? Because they are a mirror to my own. None of us are perfect, but you have opened up a can of worms here, and to be fair, I'm going to post the address of that website so that those on here who may have formed an opinion on here of me based on your accusations and slander can now decide for themselves. I don't know if one is allowed to post addresses to other forums on here, so if I get banned for doing so, than so be it. For all of you who would like to go to the website and view ALL comments given, please go to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Let the truth speak for itself. The defense rests!

[Lady Wolf]

I've heard this refered to as "Pauline theology" or "Pauline doctrin." Will you expound on what you know? This is certainly a man seemingly out of left field based on his background of persecuting Christians, but then again we're told that God can use a "bad vessal" for good sometimes, case in point how God hardened Pharohs heart in order to show both the Children of Israel and the Egyptions His power. I respectfully reserve judgement on this one. But would love to discuss it if you'd like?

 

Paul was influenced by Greek philosophy, and goes a bit different than Jesus's teachings. I read Paul's writings, and learn from them; but I do not use it a the infallible word of God, because it's not. It's Paul's teachings, that incorporate Jesus.

 

Interesting...would you mind pointing out some of those differences? I'm genuinely curious.

[Abiyoyo]

Interesting...would you mind pointing out some of those differences? I'm genuinely curious.

 

Women. Some churches believe this. Jesus spoke of his mother to be a memorial to all, so how does that jive into infallible?

1 Cor 14:35

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

(KJV)

 

 

Paul teaches about the fruits of the spirit, prophecy of tongues, and how to distinguish whether it is true or not. Fruits of the spirits. Discerning of the spirits, and it usually is taken literal, and used in judgment in some churches. Jesus said, Judge not. Also, that the spirit goes as the wind, nobody knows where it come from or goes.

1 Cor 14:14

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

(KJV)

 

So, just a few. Don't want to derail the thread. PM me if you have anymore questions about what I think on it.

 

 

 

 

Jesus said the spirit is as the wind blows, not knowing where it comes, and gone. Prayer, Paul taught fellowship

[Guest adonisai]

Lady Wolf:

I really don't know what is up with you? Are you a Christian or not? I am NOT a Christian. I think I am clear about that. I NEVER once said on that website that I was a Christian, so why would you assume I am telling lies? I hope these people here do take you up on this and go read that thread because you are the one pretending to be someone your not. You just don't get it. I DON'T want your seed, whatever that seed may be. I have already found my truths and my truths tell me that there is no God, so religion is not for me. I suppose I shouldn't post on crazy-ass threads like that one over there but sometimes I get bored and, truthfully, I find some of you Christians to be funny. Maybe this is cruel but I actually didn't take it as an insult when they called me a Nephilim and some new ones, I think Threshing Sword said I was raised by the Illuminati. I actually just see most of you as brainwashed fools who live in the strange world of superstition. So I was just playing around with some of those people there. For instance, I told Threshing Sword tonight that I am of the bloodline of Mary Magdalene and she BELIEVED me. If these people are going to be so pathetically gullible then, I'm sorry, maybe it is cruel, but I will play along. And sometimes it is sort of fun for me but I am a boring housewife so this is the way I get my kicks. I don't particularly care for Christians because I have seen so many in my lifetime that I really don't like. But I am trying to rid myself of my anger of them but I don't think I'm doing such a good job right now.

 

The truth is that you THINK you can change me and you want to change the people here too. That is the real reason you are here and it is the same reason all Christians come here. They think they have some valuble truth that they would like to impart to us. And so they think they have these seeds of wisdom that we all need so much, only we just don't know until the likes of you come along and then we suddenly wake up. Tell the truth. That is your real purpose in talking to me and in coming here. And I have a good intuition so, of course, I am not going to E-mail you. Why should I? I read your posts over at the other website and you are just as much a "christian" as they are. I don't want that anymore. I've been there and done that. And I happen to think you are all very self-centered. I could never love a "God" who kills innocent men, women, children, cattle, babies, etc., in the Bible like your demented God does. I think that anyone who would "worship" such a God has a few screws loose. And I simply asked those people over there how they can LOVE this God and no one answered me. So I got angry. Big deal. I don't use fake humility and pretend like I'm not angry. If I'm angry I just tell it like it is. And we are all different.

 

I couldn't care less if you are a Christian. If you are, that's fine. But that was a thread to ask questions to fundie Christians so I asked them. I post on lots of threads over there and mostly not the religious ones but I just happened to be in the mood to post there that day. That opened up this big can of worms, so let's just forget about it. I won't bother you and you don't need to bother me. I won't post to you over there and you don't really need to come here either. Unless, of course, you think you can CHANGE someone with one of your valuable SEEDS. If so, then do plant a few seeds here. I hope you reap your harvest. GOOD-BYE

[Neon Genesis]

I guess one would be compelled to define "torture." We throw people in prison in order that justice be served.

How is being thrown into a lake of fire whether eternal or not in any way justice? That's like saying that waterboarding prisoners in Guantanamo Bay prison is justice just because we throw people into prison.

 

If they weren't unpleasent, then there woul be no deterrant correct? With all of the symbolism used in the Bible, we have no way of knowing what EXACTLY Hell is.

If you don't even know what hell is like, why even believe in it? Doesn't the bible say Christians are always supposed to be ready with an answer for the reason of their faith? And if so much about hell is symbolic, how do you know which parts of it are to be interpreted literally and which parts are to be interpreted allegorically? Why bother with the bible at all if you're just going to cherry pick the scriptures? And how can you feel pain after you're already dead, anyway?

 

A God of justice, must punish sin. Otherwise the tyrants of the past that you named would get away with all kinds of evil, and where then is justice in that?

If your God is so just, why didn't he punish those tyrants of the past while they were still alive? What's the point in having divine "justice" when you can't get it until you're dead? And if God's going to wipe away your tears, what would the point be in the punishment if you're not even going to care in heaven? It sounds to me like you care more about seeing bloodshed and vengeance than you do justice. If God really cares about justice, why does he allow so much injustice in this world?

 

I define a loving God as one who rights the wrongs, and replaces sin and hate with love and laws of obediance based on that love for Him and for one another.

Does Anne Frank deserve to go to hell because she was a Jew instead of a Christian? Hasn't she been tortured enough in this life? Is this your idea of love and justice?

 

For all of you who would like to go to the website and view ALL comments given, please go to XXXXXXXXXXX the thread where all this has taken place is: "

Aren't board wars against the forum rules here?

[freeday]

Friend Freeday, this is not an answer to the questions. This is a regurgitation of doctrine. I know what the doctrine is. What I don't know is why it makes no sense.

 

So Christ instructs us to live Christ like. So how is that different than any other teacher of good? The teachings have no more effect on the good than any other teacher of good. So what is special about it?

 

Why is there "satanic influence"? Why are Christians still subject to "satanic influence". Why isn't "Christic influence" stronger than "satanic influence"? Jesus doesn't save you from your shortcomings because you still have your shortcomings. Why does God have to wait until heaven to do away with satanic influence? If you are unable to ignore satanic influence in this life why does God condemn you for it? It may follow that Jesus was a great teacher, one of many, but it does not follow based on the evidence that Jesus is or was a savior.

 

I was wondering why I was answering this since you knew the doctrine already, I feel like a preacher on sunday morning. Maybe I am not understanding exactly what you are asking here.

 

Why is there satanic influence can also be restated as why does evil exist? This is a topic that has been discussed on this site many times and I don't really want to get into that. For simplicity, I believe there is evil in the world to add balance and free will to life. How can you define good if there is nothing to contrast it to?

 

I feel that Luke 11 talks about the power of Christ IS stronger than satan and his influence. Therefore, with the help and salvation of Christ, we can overcome satan in this kingdom; of which, God gives satan some control over (presumably to add balance and free will). Because of his salvation, we are not condemned for our shortcomings.

 

My logic goes as follows: Christ establishes his Kingdom on earth. If Christ is now king of the dominion, He had to take it from somebody. Therefore satan must have had kingship over earth prior to Christ. Jesus saves us from satan's kingdom now and in the after life.

 

something like that anyway.

[freeday]

So Christ instructs us to live Christ like. So how is that different than any other teacher of good? The teachings have no more effect on the good than any other teacher of good. So what is special about it?

 

For me Chef, it's because, unlike the others; Jesus claimed one of the oldest forms of God/religion, as His God. That's why He is special.

 

Well you might have a point if Jesus was claiming the oldest form of religion. But there are older forms in history, and probably thousands of even older forms in pre-history. Did Lucy believe in Jesus? Did Neanderthals have souls? If age is the criteria, Krishnah should be your man/god.

 

Actually, the bible predates the Mahabharata which contains Krishna's great advice to Arjuna based on earlier Hindu concepts. Vishnu and Brahma probably predate the bible if I remember right.

[Lady Wolf]

I guess one would be compelled to define "torture." We throw people in prison in order that justice be served.

How is being thrown into a lake of fire whether eternal or not in any way justice? That's like saying that waterboarding prisoners in Guantanamo Bay prison is justice just because we throw people into prison.

 

If they weren't unpleasent, then there woul be no deterrant correct? With all of the symbolism used in the Bible, we have no way of knowing what EXACTLY Hell is.

If you don't even know what hell is like, why even believe in it? Doesn't the bible say Christians are always supposed to be ready with an answer for the reason of their faith? And if so much about hell is symbolic, how do you know which parts of it are to be interpreted literally and which parts are to be interpreted allegorically? Why bother with the bible at all if you're just going to cherry pick the scriptures? And how can you feel pain after you're already dead, anyway?

 

A God of justice, must punish sin. Otherwise the tyrants of the past that you named would get away with all kinds of evil, and where then is justice in that?

If your God is so just, why didn't he punish those tyrants of the past while they were still alive? What's the point in having divine "justice" when you can't get it until you're dead? And if God's going to wipe away your tears, what would the point be in the punishment if you're not even going to care in heaven? It sounds to me like you care more about seeing bloodshed and vengeance than you do justice. If God really cares about justice, why does he allow so much injustice in this world?

 

I define a loving God as one who rights the wrongs, and replaces sin and hate with love and laws of obediance based on that love for Him and for one another.

Does Anne Frank deserve to go to hell because she was a Jew instead of a Christian? Hasn't she been tortured enough in this life? Is this your idea of love and justice?

 

For all of you who would like to go to the website and view ALL comments given, please go to www.jesusnutsmymomproductions.com the thread where all this has taken place is: "

Aren't board wars against the forum rules here?

 

 

 

 

1. Again we don't know, or rather I don't as I have no way of knowing what others do or don't know, if "lake of fire" is symbolic or not. I don't know how God will reconcile sin or what form it will take. I do believe that whatever He decides, it will be just.

 

 

2. I believe I have already stated that I don't profess to know or completely understand the Bible. I have also said, I'm uncertain as to whether or not it's infallible in its present form today (the canon of the 66.) Maybe you didn't see this post, but because of this admission on my part, your questions are moot. When I am certain of the Bible, it's origins and whether or not is in infallible in its present form, I will then and ONLY then be ready to give an answer for the reason of my faith in terms of what is written in the Bible. For now, my faith stands on prayer, guidance by The Holy Spirit, and personal experience.

 

 

3. I don't know the answer to that question, as I am not God. Perhaps they served a purpose while at the same time excercising a wrong choice in their free will while in human form? In other words, God knew ahead of time what their choice would be and then used that choice to manifest other lessons to be learned by the majority about war and dictatorships?

 

4. I believe that God looks at the heart. That is where I stand in my current beleifs, and it is subject to change upon learning knew truths.

 

5. I don't know, as I stated before I posted the url for that website. I also stated that if I am to be banned for doing so, than so be it. It is what it is.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Continue right along with crap that wasn't started, nor belongs here at ExC.

 

I stand corrected, locking this mess down was none of my business to fuck with.

 

Carry on.

 

 

Topic locked. 2043PDT 03.12.2009

Topic Unlocked 1153PDT 03.14.2009

 

kevinFuckin'L