ShackledNoMore Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 A lot of us have already deconverted when we find this site. The cool thing about you, was that you were in the process, to be sure, but at the very beginning, not yet what I would think of as an ex-christian, but rather a questioning christian. You were asking the tough questions. You digested ideas and subjected your beliefs to serious examination. You critically challenged what you were hearing from both apologetics and secular camps and boldly decided to go wherever the facts of your investigation led. Even on this site, you don't usually get to see this process unfold before your very eyes in the way we did for you. Although primarily a landmark journey for you, I think it was enriching for others as well, and no doubt something a lot of folks could identify with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkins Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I started reading material from two separate ex-Christians, and what they said started to feel really close to home. I can relate. But at the same time, I still want to believe. This is all very new to me. I do not want to leave Christianity out of anger. Neither do I want to be pressured into joining with other ex-Christians. That makes it feel almost like a cult. I want to be wise about my descisions. So, I've come here for help. I will be talking with my church pastor(s) to also seek guidance. Like I said, I am seriously seeking the truth, not just looking for answers I want to hear. I hope that no matter the outcome, I will be welcomed here. I will also vow not to be the typical "Christian" and judge people for any descision they make, or have made. I hate when Christians do that. So, thanks and I'll be around. Oh, and by the way, I'm a member of several internet forums and I have a tendancy to cluster post, and then retreat for a while. It's just the kinda guy I am! You should seek the truth in a more serious Christian forum instead of here. First, the Jews are strictly demanded to obey the Law (Mosaic Law mostly), they are taught so such that they can develop a serious religion which can last and penetrate through human history. Thus God's demand for the Jews is strict, especially to His direct servant the prophets, as any wrong message or wrong deed might set a bad example and could be disastrous to modern day's soul saving. It is because strict Law is taught this way, it allows modern day humans to understand God's grace through Jesus Christ. There's a strong contrast between the "strict Law-punishment" and the "Jesus Christ-Grace" for God's sheep to recognise. Moreover, the death punishment by no means equivalent to a dead soul. So when God takes back the souls of those 'punished' prophets, the souls may still be savable. If on the ohter hand, if God allows a servant or prophet to screw up as Balaam did, his soul may not be savable. Anyway, we humans may not be able to understand God's deed fully simply because we are humans. We thus need faith to trust a loving and just God. Actually, you might the same amount of faith (or even more faith) to rely on your own human intelligence. "I reject because I don't understand completely" doesn't sound to be a wise choice in regards to one's after life, as humans actually understand just a tiny part of this universe, and an individual as a common folk can't even comprehend developed mathematics and physics completely. Say, do you understand quantum-physics? So will you reject science just because quantum-physics won't make sense to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Faith, realities defintion of faith is, buying a used car without taking it for a test drive, just buying it and taking it of the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dB-Paradox Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 A lot of us have already deconverted when we find this site. The cool thing about you, was that you were in the process, to be sure, but at the very beginning, not yet what I would think of as an ex-christian, but rather a questioning christian. You were asking the tough questions. You digested ideas and subjected your beliefs to serious examination. You critically challenged what you were hearing from both apologetics and secular camps and boldly decided to go wherever the facts of your investigation led. Even on this site, you don't usually get to see this process unfold before your very eyes in the way we did for you. Although primarily a landmark journey for you, I think it was enriching for others as well, and no doubt something a lot of folks could identify with. This is the second anniversary that I've brought this post forward. If I can find it again next year, maybe I'll do it again! But yes, I was still a Christian when I joined this site, albeit a doubting Christian. I was cautious not to get sucked into evil, or to be pressured into something I might regret. But today, I am agnostic atheist and feel very comfortable with everything I've learned. Looking back at my first post is like visiting myself in the past. If I knew then what I know now... I never really thought of the progression you mentioned, but if it helps someone new, then I will be honored! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dB-Paradox Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Faith, realities defintion of faith is, buying a used car without taking it for a test drive, just buying it and taking it of the lot. Oh, and this quote reminded me of a part in The Christian Delusion where one of the contributing authors says something like, a doubting Christian looking to Christianity to find answers is like asking a used car salesman to tell you about the car he has for sale. It's a biased opinion. And fallacious, at that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkins Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Faith, realities defintion of faith is, buying a used car without taking it for a test drive, just buying it and taking it of the lot. Still, most people don't need a DNA check to verify with proof who their parents are. They call their parents dad and mom till they have double, and only then they look for a DNA check. Moreover, there's no proof and whatsoever that you are talking to humans here in the forums. Faith can lead to truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Faith, realities defintion of faith is, buying a used car without taking it for a test drive, just buying it and taking it of the lot. Still, most people don't need a DNA check to verify with proof who their parents are. They call their parents dad and mom till they have double, and only then they look for a DNA check. Moreover, there's no proof and whatsoever that you are talking to humans here in the forums. Faith can lead to truth. It can also lead to mental illness. One can call god father, until they realise there is no one listening................It's called growing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Faith, realities defintion of faith is, buying a used car without taking it for a test drive, just buying it and taking it of the lot. Still, most people don't need a DNA check to verify with proof who their parents are. They call their parents dad and mom till they have double, and only then they look for a DNA check. Moreover, there's no proof and whatsoever that you are talking to humans here in the forums. Faith can lead to truth. If you don't get it, which you don't, I am not going to explain it to you, I think others get it. Its not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Faith, realities defintion of faith is, buying a used car without taking it for a test drive, just buying it and taking it of the lot. Still, most people don't need a DNA check to verify with proof who their parents are. They call their parents dad and mom till they have double, and only then they look for a DNA check. Moreover, there's no proof and whatsoever that you are talking to humans here in the forums. Faith can lead to truth. Exactly It can also lead to mental illness. One can call god father, until they realise there is no one listening................It's called growing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 You should seek the truth in a more serious Christian forum instead of here. Anyway, we humans may not be able to understand God's deed fully simply because we are humans. We thus need faith to trust a loving and just God. Actually, you might the same amount of faith (or even more faith) to rely on your own human intelligence. "I reject because I don't understand completely" doesn't sound to be a wise choice in regards to one's after life, as humans actually understand just a tiny part of this universe, and an individual as a common folk can't even comprehend developed mathematics and physics completely. Say, do you understand quantum-physics? So will you reject science just because quantum-physics won't make sense to you? " I think you're confused, understanding something technical is not the same as being baffled at the actions of an intelligent being. Also why should "faith" justify "gods'" actions? The monstrosities that the bible "god" commits and the hypocrisy is too much to just sweep under the rug with a broom of faith. With that said, I can learn math, I can learn science-even without understanding it I don t need to reject it when I can see and verify that it works, faith on the other hand, is bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dB-Paradox Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Three years this month! Prolly the longest I've remained a part of any web forum, even though I haven't contributed regularly lately. One of the main reasons for that is work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Faith can lead to truth. As my sig says. Faith is silly. It is blind acceptance of things you have every right to question. EDIT: D'oh... Congrats db! sorry for addressing an old comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted March 6, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 6, 2012 Three years this month! Prolly the longest I've remained a part of any web forum, even though I haven't contributed regularly lately. One of the main reasons for that is work. Congratulations dB on 3 years!! You've come a long way from the start of this post!! You've played a big part in my recovery in the last year and I want to thank you for staying on this site to encourage others!! Your friend, Margee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I don't really know you, and this might be addressed elsewhere, but how did your family take your deconversion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dB-Paradox Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Thanks, Margee. I think you've played an even larger part in my recovery. Your posts are so honest and genuine! FeelHappy; My family has been mainly silent. Some are angry (VERY angry) but most ignore the issue and silently pray (as they tell me from time to time), hoping that it will do something. Even the angry ones ignore the issue when we get together. They're verbal in email only. But then, I don't talk about it too much, either. If you come across some of my older posts, you'll quickly learn that my father-in-law is the most passive-aggressive about it. He subtly talks about amazing archaeological discoveries which prove the bible. In all his rambling, I generally stay silent and respectful, but lately, I have been unable to handle the stupidity, and I point out the truth of his absurdity. But all in all, they're still family, and I haven't been kicked out the door yet! Oh, and my wife is still a Christian also...she's taken it pretty hard in the past, but generally, things are still good between us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Yeah I was curious about your wife because I assumed she was still a christian. Back in my fundi days, I broke up with a girl because she questioned the historical accuracy of Moses and the exodus. I get quite a few calls from my family trying to talk to me about "getting my life right", my grandmother called me yesterday almost crying because she said she was praying for me and god let her feel for a minute what I felt, I get stuff like that a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dB-Paradox Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 "...god let her feel for a minute what I felt..." No disrespect to your grandmother, but that's funny! If God really did let her feel for a minute what a non theist feels, she should be thrilled! Most atheists I've encountered say they feel so free! I also feel this way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilcoppertop Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Oh, but freedom is such a horrible thing! You might do ANYTHING! I mean, really, what's keeping you from murdering everyone on your street if you're so free? =P And congratulations on three years, Paradox! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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