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On Christian Camp And Biblical Classes


Guest Eccentrus
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Guest Eccentrus

Because I live in a heavily religious nation, I can't announce my atheism, and I have to experience the gruesome routine of going to church every Sunday, where somebody often ask "Have you got to the camp yet?" and hell yeah, to stop them from asking, I eventually went to their camp, and lo, at the holy spirit section, where people was asked to shout their so called "new tongue" I was nearly shouting the Cogito from Descartes. It's still hard to accept the reality that they didn't realize that their "being possessed by the Holy SpiritTM" is the same by being possessed by any spirits (or Temporal Lobe Epilepsy), I don't believe in the supranatural so then I can't help but to say that they're all stupid to their core, even if I said that the case above is true, then they'll say, "Oh, No, because the bible says so". Oh, Right, at there, I disguise myself as a "Christian Deist", I know that the term itself is an oxymoron, but hey, they don't know about it right? In this very case, I'm thankful for the illiteracy of most Indonesian. When I explain about my doubt to my counselor, he still says "your faith will be the evidence", I don't want to debate him at this time, because, he's starting to be a dear friend to me, he's virtually my only video game sparring partner.

 

But then, the camp is still not the worst one, it turned out that everybody who got to the camp, have to attend on a Biblical Class from the church, and hell, I signed up, afraid of being "found out", the following months will be a course through a living hell for me, and I think this thread will be the home of my rants after I got home from that classes, it will start this Wednesday, and I will post about it here. Oh yeah, before I forgot, the preacher at the end of the camp said, "Start to look for a community, to support your own faith", but I think, I will run to this community to protect my sanity, oh well, thank you for reading.

 

PS: Mods, if I put this in the wrong place, please feel free to move it.

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Sounds like you've got a really tough row to hoe, Eccentrus. You also seem to be really smart. I think you're find ways to survive till you can improve your situation. I really don't know much more to say except to hang in there.

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It's still hard to accept the reality that they didn't realize that their "being possessed by the Holy SpiritTM" is the same by being possessed by any spirits (or Temporal Lobe Epilepsy), I don't believe in the supranatural so then I can't help but to say that they're all stupid to their core, even if I said that the case above is true, then they'll say, "Oh, No, because the bible says so".

 

I've done a lot of research on this subject and I continue to look into it. I'm a neuroscience/psychology nerd and I'm really interested in how the human brain interprets these things. You're right that this mimics certain types of epilepsy. "Speaking in tongues" is a kind of epilepsy called glossolalia. I think that, with some people, it is an epileptic seizure, but with the majority, I think they're either mimicking what they've seen/what they've been taught or that's just how their brain interprets the information. Take the phenomenon of "faith healing" for example. When the "healer" touches the person, different people react in different ways. Some fall down, some have what appear to be grand mal seizures, and some just stand there amazed. Each category of person interprets the event in a different way based on what they've seen other people do in the same situation and based on what they think they should do in the situation. The human brain is a very complex organ that can trick itself into believing a multitude of illusions, and the more research you do on this phenomena, the more you'll come to realize that it's more probable that the things you witness other people doing are just their brains tricking themselves, not any act of divinity.

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I'm really starting to see the truth in Sam Harris' book "The End of Faith". Faith itself, moderate or extreme, is the basis for continuing the mindless control games of Christianity and Islam (and other religions given to fanaticism). Minds put on hold; reason mocked and science disregarded; fake miracles promoted to sell books and tapes and generate fervor to inspire the believers to give and submit. Indonesia, like Europe in the Middle Ages, is under the iron fist of religion. Societies worldwide give faith a default shield of something sacred and something not to be questioned or mocked. It must be mocked, it must be questioned, it must be vociferously opposed and reviled for the harm it does and the wall it represents to reason and the advancement of humankind. Sadly I know that to do so in many countries is a death sentence, sometimes with torture. A plague on them!

 

(From Apocalypse Now) Kurtz: "Drop the bomb. Exterminate them all." If only it were that simple. But it will take a long, long time to change minds with consistent reason, questions, and exposé of religious false prophecies, false promises, false power, blatant manipulation, and all under a guise of being good and moral. In the meantime, extremist churches, mosques, and schools continue to infect and warp the minds of thousands, thus perpetuating the myths and mental/emotional slavery to fanatical teachers and views of reality.

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We are more than happy to help you maintain your sanity. Best of luck to you in your upcoming trials, and keep us updated.

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Good luck. I know how you feel, but my situation isn't nearly as hard as yours.

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If you've any interest in writing, why don't you write an article about your experiences? That way when you're in the class, you're an investigator, looking for information, looking for ways to put your story together. Maybe imagining yourself as a reporter (and really becoming one) can give you the emotional distance you need.

 

Maybe something like this:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/excerpt/2009/03/1...iple/index.html

 

Not only might it help you get through, but I must admit that it's something that I and others would find very interesting to hear about.

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Guest Eccentrus
Sounds like you've got a really tough row to hoe, Eccentrus. You also seem to be really smart. I think you're find ways to survive till you can improve your situation. I really don't know much more to say except to hang in there.

 

Well, life's already tough here even without being an atheist or a smart ass, so this kind of things is just like the cherry on the top of the cake. Well, I'm not really that smart, even though I excels at Physics and Biology, I'm sucks at pure Calculus and pure Maths. Don't worry R.S.Martin, I will find the way to survive, it's what I've been doing for the past 4 years, but well, I still gotta be careful on this, and thank you for your concern.

 

I've done a lot of research on this subject and I continue to look into it. I'm a neuroscience/psychology nerd and I'm really interested in how the human brain interprets these things. You're right that this mimics certain types of epilepsy. "Speaking in tongues" is a kind of epilepsy called glossolalia. I think that, with some people, it is an epileptic seizure, but with the majority, I think they're either mimicking what they've seen/what they've been taught or that's just how their brain interprets the information. Take the phenomenon of "faith healing" for example. When the "healer" touches the person, different people react in different ways. Some fall down, some have what appear to be grand mal seizures, and some just stand there amazed. Each category of person interprets the event in a different way based on what they've seen other people do in the same situation and based on what they think they should do in the situation. The human brain is a very complex organ that can trick itself into believing a multitude of illusions, and the more research you do on this phenomena, the more you'll come to realize that it's more probable that the things you witness other people doing are just their brains tricking themselves, not any act of divinity.

 

yep, in the majority, they only repeat of what they have heard before, in different community, you got different pronunciation of "tongues" (what else is the explanation of this, but the very same by how you get different dialects fro different places), but I did saw some of them having seizures and screaming, so, it looks like an epilepsy, it sounds like one, and hell, it might even taste like one, so it's an epilepsy.

 

I'm really starting to see the truth in Sam Harris' book "The End of Faith". Faith itself, moderate or extreme, is the basis for continuing the mindless control games of Christianity and Islam (and other religions given to fanaticism). Minds put on hold; reason mocked and science disregarded; fake miracles promoted to sell books and tapes and generate fervor to inspire the believers to give and submit. Indonesia, like Europe in the Middle Ages, is under the iron fist of religion. Societies worldwide give faith a default shield of something sacred and something not to be questioned or mocked. It must be mocked, it must be questioned, it must be vociferously opposed and reviled for the harm it does and the wall it represents to reason and the advancement of humankind. Sadly I know that to do so in many countries is a death sentence, sometimes with torture. A plague on them!

 

(From Apocalypse Now) Kurtz: "Drop the bomb. Exterminate them all." If only it were that simple. But it will take a long, long time to change minds with consistent reason, questions, and exposé of religious false prophecies, false promises, false power, blatant manipulation, and all under a guise of being good and moral. In the meantime, extremist churches, mosques, and schools continue to infect and warp the minds of thousands, thus perpetuating the myths and mental/emotional slavery to fanatical teachers and views of reality.

 

When I step outside of it, I started to see what "faith" really is, and yeah, trying to convince them will not work, the only weapon left (I think) is Reasonable Education, a whole educational system based on doubt and reason for the whole world, but we'll need an "Imperium Terra" or something like that for it to work.

 

We are more than happy to help you maintain your sanity. Best of luck to you in your upcoming trials, and keep us updated.

 

Oh right, I forgot to mention that the schedule is moved to the Thursdays, so wait for me here.

 

Good luck. I know how you feel, but my situation isn't nearly as hard as yours.

 

Thanks, mate. but about the latter, tell that to those atheists from the Middle East, they have tougher time than me of course, it's a good luck that my nation still hold on secular laws and only mingling a bit into religions (such as must have a religion on your ID, have proof of it, you can only marry if you have legal letters that you've been baptized by a church, etc.)

 

If you've any interest in writing, why don't you write an article about your experiences? That way when you're in the class, you're an investigator, looking for information, looking for ways to put your story together. Maybe imagining yourself as a reporter (and really becoming one) can give you the emotional distance you need.

 

Maybe something like this:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/excerpt/2009/03/1...iple/index.html

 

Not only might it help you get through, but I must admit that it's something that I and others would find very interesting to hear about.

 

that's a very nice idea, I can be like the skeptical investigator with disguises in those classes. I do have a blog about my atheist life, but it's in Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian Language), I think I will update my classes there too.

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Hoo boy. Prepare yourself; I would have said the camp itself would be more dangerous, because it's more controlled a setting and what equates to brainwashing can more easily be done.

 

Stay skeptical, stay questioning. We'll be here if you need a reality check.

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Guest Eccentrus

*Update*

 

I'm sorry I'm late on updating this thread while I promised to post it on Thursday after the Class, but then, I am now addicted to Orbiter Space Simulator and my head still spins because of it.

 

Btw, the first class was practically a joke, they gave away a book in Indonesian Language with English Quote which structure is heavily impaired, makes me wonder on how untrained foreign speakers of English can have the same errors to the Creationists. The books is a complete load of craps depicting on how Paul grew in Christianity and so on, while people who know who Paul was will not follow him, he's practically the source of all this Fundamentalism we have now, remember his writings "Now faith is the bla bla bla, the evidence of the unseen"? The very source of my most hated argument in the whole world, since when having faith that there's no wall in front of you when you close your eyes and hitting on it affect anything?

 

And about Creationism, I can't believe it turned out in my Biology test, oh crap!

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