RevOxley_501 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Thinking of joining the army. What do you all think? do you agree with all of the goals of the current military and the direction of our country? if not...you may ought to consider the militia...yea there are some nutjobs there you might have to deal with, but you'll be needed soon enough to actually protect this country rather than spread its empire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Spend a year working at your local VA Medical Center and then decide if enlisting is worth it. That hospital is where you will be receiving treatment when you come back, so you may as well get to know the place. If you go be sure you head stays screwed on right, people will be trying to kill you and the war is personal for them. Keep in mind, you are no longer in your own country and every opportunist will be looking to score a shot at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artiss Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 If anything I would make sure I know the possible mental ramifications of becoming any type of soldier. My family has been closely affected my post- traumatic stress disorder. An uncle we all thought the world of came back with a lot of problems. Long story short he ended up kidnapping a family for ransom and shot up by the feds. Now I know this is an extreme case, but the things a lot of people see or do while serving can be psychologically damaging to say the least. If you choose to enlist I would make sure to weigh all the pros and cons thoroughly, and take into account that your physical well being is linked directly to your mental well being and reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 For me, the biggest issue with military service is that I'd be essentially selling my freedom. You can't just quit like you can any other job... you can (and likely will) be prosecuted if you just walk away. In any other context, this would be something along the lines of indentured servitude... which I don't really cotton to. It's awful close to selling yourself as property. But since this has been standard military policy since the dawn of time- nobody seems to question it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QuidEstCaritas? Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 If you do wind up going Air Force or Marines, make sure you get to a really good unit or go the SF/SOCOMM/SPEC OPS/W/e route. If you go spec ops route you will be literally killing people to earn your pay, but at least you will get respect from your peers that is real and unquestioned. If you go anywhere else you are liable to get treated shitty for awhile. Remember, Garrison sucks ass. Remember that. For every 20 or 30 kids that get Spec Ops in their contract, with dreams of elite glory straight out of a Tom Clancy novel, maybe one makes it. Possibly less! Many try, the majority will fail. Unless you're totally obsessively driven and have wanted to be an elite super-stud since you were 13 years old, I don't know that I would bank on that. Hell, I bet even most those kids that have such a hard-on for being an elite super trooper don't make it. From what I've seen, most of them were serious jocks in high school that lived and breathed athletics, especially if you're talking anybody with dive wings (SEALs and Recon). Although the Green Berets do tend to attract the brainier types. I got a buddy who's a Sergeant in the 82nd Airborne and who's going for his second try for Special Forces School. He fucked up his ankle in a rappelling accident, which is why he didn't make it before. He tells me he has a pretty good shot at making it. He was no jock in high school, just a skinny chain-smoking goth weirdo who collected German war memorabilia and who spent hours a day playing video games, in the days before multi-player PC games like Warcraft. Although he was a lot more obsessed with military history and all that stuff than the average nerd was, and he did go on these epic treks through the desert with his guns and survival gear. If you do suddenly feel a "calling" to be a Green Beret or a SEAL or something, drop to the ground and start doing pushups right now. I'd embark on basically an Olympian training regimen about a solid year before showing up for Basic. Some of the smartest guys in the US Army are in Special Forces units. Which isn't to say much of anything in some senses, but hopefully you get my drift. \ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Some of the smartest guys in the US Army are in Special Forces units. Which isn't to say much of anything in some senses, but hopefully you get my drift.\ Brains ain't the problem. Those Recon guys, for instance, can do a 7 minute mile running backwards with 80 lbs. of gear. You more or less have to be in superb Olympian shape, and even that may not be enough. For those that want to be SEALs, the vast majority wash out from BUDS; there was one class where only one guy made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Some of the smartest guys in the US Army are in Special Forces units. Which isn't to say much of anything in some senses, but hopefully you get my drift.\ Brains ain't the problem. Those Recon guys, for instance, can do a 7 minute mile running backwards with 80 lbs. of gear. You more or less have to be in superb Olympian shape, and even that may not be enough. For those that want to be SEALs, the vast majority wash out from BUDS; there was one class where only one guy made it. I had a buddy that joined the Army and went through Green Beret training when he was 31 (his dad was a ret Col and pulled some strings). He graduated top of his class out of 100 guys (he says and I can't find a decent reason to disbelieve him) and then he subsequently bailed on the military taking a medical discharge. He took the discharge because he never committed to anything in his life. He was able to get a medical discharge because the training really did fuck up his 31 yo body that badly. This guy is quite a character. You guys wouldn't believe the stories I can tell you about him. VC, you know the Ted Binion/Horseshoe Casino case in LV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 VC, you know the Ted Binion/Horseshoe Casino case in LV? I most certainly do. Was he a player in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 VC, you know the Ted Binion/Horseshoe Casino case in LV? I most certainly do. Was he a player in that? He's Kurt:http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2452547 The article doesn't tell the whole story. Kurt was friends with Tabish. Tabish asked Kurt to do the murder and Kurt conspired to do it. He went to a pharmacist friend and asked about lethal meds and then he considered using his Ranger (sorry, about the GBs, I just remembered he was a Ranger not GB) training to play sniper. In the end he backed out and Tabish and Sandy (who Kurt was also fucking) took care of Binion. The story gets even crazier. I read a story once in the LV Sun that said Kurt was in trouble with prosecutors for running up hotel fees while he was under witness protection. I was in Italy at the time and Kurt would call me every day and talk for hours on the city's tab. LOL Long story short, Kurt was arrested digging up Binion's silver in the desert with Tabish. Kurt turned on Binion and got a free pass (and he says $100k reward money - though I always found this one hard to swallow - OTH, everything he told me other than this has been verified by the book below, LV Sun and a Dateline episode I saw) for being a witness for the prosecution. Here's a really ironic twist. A few years ago an American friend of mine in St. Pete moved into an apartment that had a library of English books inside. One of the books was http://www.amazon.com/Positively-Fifth-Str.../ref=pd_sim_b_3 which had about 10 pages dedicated to Kurt backing up most of Kurt's claims to me. So I move half way around the world and end up reading a murder mystery about my old roommate and good friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Thinking of joining the army. What do you all think? I served in the 90's. It wasn't easy, but overall, it was a positive experience. My question is why do you want to be a soldier? If you can answer that, and if it really means something to you, then do it. If not, you might want to rethink things. The life of a soldier isn't easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhia Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Maybe I'm just a bit biased, but I would say no to the Army. My mother's partner was in the Navy for years, and was trying to raise me to join myself. Needless to say I didn't, but I can still tread for 3 hours in moving water without so much as getting tired. Gotta love muscle memory. Anyway, I have some friends in the Navy, and they're being treated a LOT better than those in the Army Reserves. Many of them are stationed around Egypt, Japan, South Korea, etc - and are happy where they are. You'll get to see a lot of port cities, meet new people, and still get the tuition reimbursement; but without being sent to Afghanistan or Iraq in desert fatigues. I'd say before signing ANYTHING, go down to the local recruitment offices for each - Army Reserves, Navy, Air Force, and Marines and speak to someone. Get educated first, and then make a decision. Personally, I'd rather be on the water than in the desert, but it's your life and ultimately what you prefer the best. Then again, I wouldn't join any branch of the military if given the choice - I'd rather be a civilian. If you feel this is the best way to go - then good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKR Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I strongly suggest you seriously research the US' use of military force around the world over the past 100 years. I'm not just talking legal wars, but their use of the military in less well known ways. Look at the "dirty wars" of South America; look at the gulf of Tonkin inicident; look at how Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen; look at the Iraq war. Then, look at the use of the stop loss tactic; ; look at how they experiment with drugs on their own soldiers; look at how they cover up sexual abuse, suicides, domestic violence; look at how they treat vets; oh, and last but not least, look at the strong Christian presence in the military. You will be owned by the military and can be called back any time they want you. Just ask yourself it this military is really a military you want to be owned by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I strongly suggest you seriously research the US' use of military force around the world over the past 100 years. I'm not just talking legal wars, but their use of the military in less well known ways. Look at the "dirty wars" of South America; look at the gulf of Tonkin inicident; look at how Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen; look at the Iraq war. Then, look at the use of the stop loss tactic; ; look at how they experiment with drugs on their own soldiers; look at how they cover up sexual abuse, suicides, domestic violence; look at how they treat vets; oh, and last but not least, look at the strong Christian presence in the military. You will be owned by the military and can be called back any time they want you. Just ask yourself it this military is really a military you want to be owned by. I think out of all the members on this board Doc is probably one of the most well versed on US foreign policy. Not to put words in his mouth, but I suspect if he is considering this he already feels fairly owned by the current system that bites pretty hard when you are young and lack money (or even old and lack money). I and I think Doc probably share your sentiment on US foreign policy. At the same time, if used correctly it may not be such a bad alternative to getting one's start in life and getting on their feet. Sometimes idealism and damn the consequences is meaningless when faced with a daily grind. The military can in many cases help one get a better start in life and refusing that out of idealism can often times ring hollow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XtianChris Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 I don't know anything about you, but your profile says you are a bit of a socialist and a bit of a liberal (or libertarian). That's reason enough to say no. You will be torn apart mentally and emotionally from joining. I am speaking from experience. I regret my decision every day of my life. Others have listed the evils that the military has done, and aside from waste of public money I have not personally experienced any injustice in the Army. However, I fully believe that it is happening and will continue to happen. The Army is made up of people, and many are not good people. There is power to be taken at all levels in the military, much more power than most people will ever have on the outside. Power in the wrong hands produces undesirable results, whereas power in the right hands can produce positive results. Power generally flows to the wrong hands. That's my view on this debate. Personally, I am glad the US has a powerful military, because without it I believe our country would fall, but I am not proud to be a part of the Army. I would do much better to be out. I have four years to go, and I fear that before the end of my term I will have been changed too much for the worse to achieve anything close to the kind of life I want to have. Whatever your reasons for wanting to join are, I suggest that you find alternative routes to achieve your goals. There are much better alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I think out of all the members on this board Doc is probably one of the most well versed on US foreign policy. Not to put words in his mouth, but I suspect if he is considering this he already feels fairly owned by the current system that bites pretty hard when you are young and lack money (or even old and lack money). I and I think Doc probably share your sentiment on US foreign policy. At the same time, if used correctly it may not be such a bad alternative to getting one's start in life and getting on their feet. Sometimes idealism and damn the consequences is meaningless when faced with a daily grind. The military can in many cases help one get a better start in life and refusing that out of idealism can often times ring hollow. The Army is made up of people, and many are not good people. There is power to be taken at all levels in the military, much more power than most people will ever have on the outside. Power in the wrong hands produces undesirable results, whereas power in the right hands can produce positive results. Power generally flows to the wrong hands. That's my view on this debate. This thread has been very educational for me, a cultural Mennonite who has lived all my life in the bosom of a pacifist community and never heard about life in the army or military. Reading these two posts back to back made me think. "Power generally flows to the wrong hands." Yes, I have seen that all my life. In addition to personal experience, I've read stories, studied sociology and history, watched WW2 movies, etc. There are exceptions to the rule. There is the exceptionally talented general or emperor who knows how to combine justice with compassion, discipline with mercy. There is also the rank and file soldier whom everyone knows won't lie or steal or pull dirty tricks even though "everyone" is doing it. Vigile seems to be suggesting that Doc is the one person on these forums who may fit this description if anyone does. I can see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live and learn Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 My perspective coming out of a Mennonite pacifist family to working at a VA hospital for the last 16 years: Join the Coast Guard. My son went in straight out of high school and it has been a very good thing for him. The Coast Guard is technically not even the military, it's under the Dept. of Transportation, except in "times of war", whatever that means now. My son volunteered for a year in the Middle East, but he was on a ship, not in an unarmored tin box on wheels. His cutter Tornado rescued the guy off of Forida (a huge news story). I am so extremely proud of him. Like Heretic Zone, I've seen what happens on the other end of the recruiting line after it's all done. And for many guys, it's never really over. They carry that stuff with them to the grave, either physically or mentally. One more thought: my son can retire about 7 years before I can. That can't be all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Here's a really ironic twist. A few years ago an American friend of mine in St. Pete moved into an apartment that had a library of English books inside. One of the books was http://www.amazon.com/Positively-Fifth-Str.../ref=pd_sim_b_3 which had about 10 pages dedicated to Kurt backing up most of Kurt's claims to me. So I move half way around the world and end up reading a murder mystery about my old roommate and good friend. Oh man, that's classic. He reminds me of my one friend who's a bonafide elite trooper himself over in the Sandbox. You talk to him and you think he's totally full of shit -- and he certainly was back when we were kids, always making shit up -- but he actually managed to become the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts