Howdy

[Ouroboros]

Perhaps He chooses to communicate to only certain people? Perhaps you aren't one of those people?

...

So, yes, Biblically, God choses certain ''chosen'' ones to communicate through, and seems He also choses when to show signs to His creation.

Here's a thought, maybe God is Nature, and we all are seeing the real, true signs of God, which are that we can live, breathe, talk, experience, etc. So if God is Nature, and Nature is God, then God does prove him/her/itself to us all the time, but there's nothing more to it, or any supernatural or infinite incorporeal brain somewhere which proves itself. Life and Nature is what it is. Instead of "I AM WHO I AM" we could say "IT IS WHAT IT IS." And there you have the one and only true God, which is just life, nature, existence, and the universe. Why is it necessary to invent something beyond what is?

[godsfavoritecolor]

Fish Thirteen has never gotten around to explicitly defining his concept of god. These godbots never do because then they are trapped into defending an indefensible definition that is irrational and illogical.

[Zaramon]

Perhaps He chooses to communicate to only certain people? Perhaps you aren't one of those people?

...

So, yes, Biblically, God choses certain ''chosen'' ones to communicate through, and seems He also choses when to show signs to His creation.

Here's a thought, maybe God is Nature, and we all are seeing the real, true signs of God, which are that we can live, breathe, talk, experience, etc. So if God is Nature, and Nature is God, then God does prove him/her/itself to us all the time, but there's nothing more to it, or any supernatural or infinite incorporeal brain somewhere which proves itself. Life and Nature is what it is. Instead of "I AM WHO I AM" we could say "IT IS WHAT IT IS." And there you have the one and only true God, which is just life, nature, existence, and the universe. Why is it necessary to invent something beyond what is?

That just fricking rocks Innominatus! The ancients were unfortunately too ignorant of how nature works so they invented gods for different events and circumstances. We all know that. Having experienced the Enlightenment and the Age of Reason, we pretty much need to stop thinking as ignorant children about gods that want us to have the coolest stuff and hang out on streets-o-gold.

 

God did speak to the ancients, I believe that. He spoke in thunder and rain, through good crops and drought. Those people worshipped nature and for want of a more informed method of nomenclature they assigned gods to these events. Hell, even now the religious are unwittingly still guided by a certain nature worshipping ritual, namely Easter and Passover. They are determined by the lunar cycle that was the representation of the goddess of fertility. Asherah and Estra.

[Ouroboros]

And we still pray to and try to please the fickle Nature-God, and we try to circumvent its actions against us, for instance by eating vitamins to live longer, driving cars to get faster between places, making and using computers to help us think and communicate with each other and conspire even more against the powers of Nature, and so on. We interact with Nature, because simply put: we exist in Nature, we are gods ourselves within Nature. So really, why add an extra layer of God-outside-of-nature-and-not-of-it, if Nature is talking to us all the time, and we are part of it? I'm not sure why people need to have schizophrenic episodes just to experience God? Why not just take a walk or a bike ride in the nearby park? That's true spirituality!

[chefranden]

Perhaps He chooses to communicate to only certain people? Perhaps you aren't one of those people?

 

I see your getting roasted here Trout, and I probably will as well; but I agree. If we are talking Bible God, for Bible God, then it is only fair to point out that Bible God does usually ''choose'' the people He wishes to communicate with. But... then usually Biblically, He shows signs to most of His people. So, maybe the question here should be, Why doesn't He show His creation any signs? Which is impossible to answer really, because it is based on the individual interpretation from the person that asked the question; thus making it an individual inquiry, making it a matter of if that person is a ''chosen'' vessel or not. So, back to the general. The cold fact is that to many people, God does show them signs, which would make the inquiry of God showing a group a sign pointless. Then, you have to determine what kind of sign would be sufficient, which is a whole other conversation.

 

So, yes, Biblically, God choses certain ''chosen'' ones to communicate through, and seems He also choses when to show signs to His creation.

 

I can answer it. He doesn't show his creation any signs because he is a fictional character. This is why one doesn't actually see the Bat Signal in the sky.

[Zaramon]

A FREAKING MEN to Han! Preach it broman!!!

[Ouroboros]

A FREAKING MEN to Han! Preach it broman!!!

You know, a couple of weeks after I lost my faith, I had a strong spiritual experience. I was walking late at night, and it was a crystal clear sky where I could see the moon and the stars, and I had this feeling of connectivity to it all. I felt a true unity with everything, the Universe, and what to be a being existing in an finite place and time, within the infinite. It was *awesome*! Christianity and any other fake/plastic substitute can not give you that feeling, because it's just a bromide for the true sublime experience of living.

[florduh]

Goddamit Hans! REBOOT was right! You ARE a god!

 

Now, stop denying it.

[Ouroboros]

Goddamit Hans! REBOOT was right! You ARE a god!

Of course I am, we all are.

 

Now, stop denying it.

I can't reveal my true existence... people might start a religion!

[willybilly30]

That's a cool thought and makes the most sense. We only see,feel,hear and smell the Earth and Universe not some man in the sky or any god.

I'd rather worship the earth it has no intolerance we are just as the Earth created us to be and we got a brain so theirs no use for books, preachers or Gods.

It's a beutiful thought.

 

Here's a thought, maybe God is Nature, and we all are seeing the real, true signs of God, which are that we can live, breathe, talk, experience, etc. So if God is Nature, and Nature is God, then God does prove him/her/itself to us all the time, but there's nothing more to it, or any supernatural or infinite incorporeal brain somewhere which proves itself. Life and Nature is what it is. Instead of "I AM WHO I AM" we could say "IT IS WHAT IT IS." And there you have the one and only true God, which is just life, nature, existence, and the universe. Why is it necessary to invent something beyond what is?

[willybilly30]

I like the idea of everyone being a god. When you think about it if their was a God why would he try to watch over all the billions of people on Earth and tell them what to do. A really busy and annoying thing to do.

Why not just give us all brains to think on our own it just makes more sense.

 

 

Goddamit Hans! REBOOT was right! You ARE a god!

Of course I am, we all are.

 

Now, stop denying it.

I can't reveal my true existence... people might start a religion!

[Ouroboros]

Exactly. It's a true belief, since you know that you exist in some fashion, and that the world must exist to some degree as well, which means, you are not believing in some fairytale. We are all part of this world. And we make it and shape it, and we control our destiny (at least to some level), so prayer for a better tomorrow is when we act on it and make it happen. You are your own God. So act like it.

[Neon Genesis]

And we still pray to and try to please the fickle Nature-God, and we try to circumvent its actions against us, for instance by eating vitamins to live longer, driving cars to get faster between places, making and using computers to help us think and communicate with each other and conspire even more against the powers of Nature, and so on. We interact with Nature, because simply put: we exist in Nature, we are gods ourselves within Nature. So really, why add an extra layer of God-outside-of-nature-and-not-of-it, if Nature is talking to us all the time, and we are part of it? I'm not sure why people need to have schizophrenic episodes just to experience God? Why not just take a walk or a bike ride in the nearby park? That's true spirituality!

I wonder if Deuteronomy 4:19 condemned pantheism because the biblical authors were jealous they didn't make reality themselves?

"And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, (Y)all the host of heaven, (Z)and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

[willybilly30]

Yea, people need to try to work on making the world a better place besides praying to a god you can't prove exists.

Even if god does exist I think it would want us to do things for ourselves and not depend on it.

If I was a god i'd be that way it'd be more interesting then telling everyone what to do.

Kind of like having ants in an ant farm and watching them do their work.

 

 

Exactly. It's a true belief, since you know that you exist in some fashion, and that the world must exist to some degree as well, which means, you are not believing in some fairytale. We are all part of this world. And we make it and shape it, and we control our destiny (at least to some level), so prayer for a better tomorrow is when we act on it and make it happen. You are your own God. So act like it.

[RankStranger]

Perhaps He chooses to communicate to only certain people? Perhaps you aren't one of those people?

You're avoiding my question. Why should I believe that God had an experience with you but not Muhammed? Simply saying you had the experience is not enough. You have to present evidence. If you have no evidence or are incapable of presenting evidence, then your claims of experience are totally worthless and you're wasting our time. Besides, doesn't the bible say God shows no partiality to anyone? Why is he showing partiality to you by revealing himself to you but not us? Or are you saying God lied? You're still refusing to answer the question. Simply saying that God chooses who he wants to appear to does not answer the question as to WHY HE CHOOSES to appear to some people if he really wants us to believe. If you refuse to answer why, you're a troll that's wasting our time.

 

Maybe I'm not getting my point across. If God is all powerful, He can communicate with anyone He so chooses. MAYBE, He doesn't delegate the revelation of Himself to anyone else. Perhaps He has revealed Himself to some in such a way that they can be assured of His existence yet incapable of demonstrating His existence to others?

 

MAYBE you're schizophrenic.

[Ouroboros]

I wonder if Deuteronomy 4:19 condemned pantheism because the biblical authors were jealous they didn't make reality themselves?

"And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, (Y)all the host of heaven, (Z)and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

True. They probably were afraid alternative, natural views on the world, would deteriorate the power the religious elite had over the people.

 

However I think that verse is about astrology and about worshiping nature, like literal offering, real prayers, etc. And I think that is making nature into more than what it is. Nature isn't God in the sense of a conscious, aware being, who is in need of real worship etc.

 

 

 

Yea, people need to try to work on making the world a better place besides praying to a god you can't prove exists.

Even if god does exist I think it would want us to do things for ourselves and not depend on it.

If I was a god i'd be that way it'd be more interesting then telling everyone what to do.

Kind of like having ants in an ant farm and watching them do their work.

Very true.

[Neon Genesis]

Maybe I'm not getting my point across. If God is all powerful, He can communicate with anyone He so chooses. MAYBE, He doesn't delegate the revelation of Himself to anyone else. Perhaps He has revealed Himself to some in such a way that they can be assured of His existence yet incapable of demonstrating His existence to others?

 

According to the Bible, God knocked Paul down in the middle of the road and said, "Why are you persecuting me?" If God is all powerful He could do that to everyone, He chooses not to, His universe, His rules.

You're still avoiding my questions. Why should I believe God communicated with you but not believe God communicated with Muhammed? Or what about those people who kill their children because they believe God told them to? Why should I believe they're crazy but not you? Again, you must provide evidence. Simply saying you had an experience is not evidence. And if God just picks and chooses at a whim who he wants to reveal himself to yet demands us to be his slaves, are you basically saying God is an asshole? Also, you can't use the bible to prove the bible is true. That's called circular logic and is intellectually dishonest. Otherwise, I could easily say that the Koran proves that the claims of the Koran are true or that the Harry Potter books proves Harry Potter is true. Why should we believe the bible isn't a fairytale over other fictional books?

[agnosticator]

A FREAKING MEN to Han! Preach it broman!!!

You know, a couple of weeks after I lost my faith, I had a strong spiritual experience. I was walking late at night, and it was a crystal clear sky where I could see the moon and the stars, and I had this feeling of connectivity to it all. I felt a true unity with everything, the Universe, and what to be a being existing in an finite place and time, within the infinite. It was *awesome*! Christianity and any other fake/plastic substitute can not give you that feeling, because it's just a bromide for the true sublime experience of living.

 

I haven't had much time to stop by the forums lately, till tonite.

When I stumbled upon this thread and read your posts, I saw my thoughts and experience with nature in written word. This is exactly how and what I feel too, Hans. I also view god in the same manner: no frills, just the awesome reality of our universe. After all, who needs a glorified human to tell us what to do and how to do it?

[Zaramon]

A FREAKING MEN to Han! Preach it broman!!!

You know, a couple of weeks after I lost my faith, I had a strong spiritual experience. I was walking late at night, and it was a crystal clear sky where I could see the moon and the stars, and I had this feeling of connectivity to it all. I felt a true unity with everything, the Universe, and what to be a being existing in an finite place and time, within the infinite. It was *awesome*! Christianity and any other fake/plastic substitute can not give you that feeling, because it's just a bromide for the true sublime experience of living.

OK,

This isn't a "one upsmanship" moment. It's a pretty bizarre thing I'm going to spill out. Actually, it's something that should have gotten me commited to an institution of some sort.

 

In the southeastern most part of Virginia we get some healthy thunderstorsms. Last May a tornado ripped through my neighborhood ripping out houses as close as 75 yards to my own house. Wifey and I have always enjoyed watching heavy duty storms roll up out of the southwest, esp. thunderstorms. I didn't enjoy watching that F2 tornado rip up my neighborhood, but that is another story.

 

Coming out of borderline insanity, I realize that I was borderline insane and I would sit out on front steps of our house in severe thunderstorms and dare God to hit me with a lightning bolt. I even had an aluminum flagpole 20 feet away from the steps. I mocked God as each bolt of lightning obviously missed. Wifey was mortified at my actions and each time tried to drag my ass back into the house.

 

Sortah resembles the scene from Forest Gump where Lt. Dan jumps out of the shrimp boat. We are all handicapped in one way or another. Religion promotes handicaps by teaching us that we are all sinners. But I sat out there, fist in the air screaming, "HIT ME MOTHERFUCKER!!! IF I'VE PISSED YOU OFF HIT ME GODDAMMIT!!!"

 

Obviously he missed. Because he lives I can face tomorrow...hehe..what a fucked up bastard I am. God is nature, thank goodness God isn't Randy Johnson because I'd be dead by now.

 

Amen and amen. HIT ME

[ShackledNoMore]

Perhaps He chooses to communicate to only certain people? Perhaps you aren't one of those people?

 

I see your getting roasted here Trout, and I probably will as well; but I agree. If we are talking Bible God, for Bible God, then it is only fair to point out that Bible God does usually ''choose'' the people He wishes to communicate with.

 

...

 

So, yes, Biblically, God choses certain ''chosen'' ones to communicate through, and seems He also choses when to show signs to His creation.

That's where I am, I've had some sort of communication/connection with God, I can't explain it in any detail, but it seems very real to me none the less.

No personal offense, Trout and YoYo, but your statements are just pure and utter crap.

 

Not that a personal anecdote is necessarily the way to prove something, and I know this is subject dead end "No True Scotsman" fallacy to counter, BUT it illustrates my point so well...

 

My mother "knew" proof positive, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the xian godhead existed because jesus, according to her, physically appeared to her, i.e. stood there in body and literally talked to her, in the flesh, one day when she was taking a bath. This is full a full blown appearance I'm talking here, not "a still small voice" not a feeling of assurance, nothing figurative she drew a conclusion from, she believed as fully as I believe I'm sitting in this chair that Jesus Christ appeared bodily to her and had a specific conversation, for which she supplied details, as literal and tangible as a conversation in the flesh with me.

 

She semi-regularly repeated this story to me and my wife as irrefutable proof for use in her incessant efforts to "get us saved."

 

Unfortunately, jesus seems to had made my mother a very specific promise during that conversation (it involved another physical healing for her), and my mother was pretty clear that that promise was to be fulfilled in "this life," or at least omniscient jesus led her to believe that. She died last year with that promise not only unfilled, but her condition had worsened (or at least she believed it had) until the end.

 

Now I'm not playing a psychiatrist and diagnosing full blown schizophrenia based on one episode, but I am saying that she had a full blown hallucination for this incident. However, assuming for the sake of argument that it was not a hallucination, then jesus came down, in the flesh, and told her a baldfaced whopper of a lie, directly to her face. Or, perhaps my mother told me a direct and convincingly executed lie in an attempt to convert me (clearly forbidden by the god working through her--not very likely).

 

Before you tell me that my mother was not a True Christian^TM, I have to tell you that I have never met anyone as devout and unwavering a xian as her.

 

To reign all this back in, unlike you Trout, this was not "some sort of connection/communication with God" that she "could not explain in detail" as your experience has been. It was not the "still small voice" or something that could be construed as "god speaking to you through his word" or the "know that I know that I know" explanation that xians give to describe their personal belief. The fact is, devout, convinced xians like you (or ones who tell themselves they are convinced) range the gamut from my mother (way out there, at an extreme), to you, to a connection of even less substance than you claim, if that is possible. If you dismiss my mother's experience as the hallucination it clearly was, then how can you possibly claim that god has communicated to you, on something so much less and so less tangible? That based on your perceived connection that exists within the confines of your own skull you can claim that the xian god has personally communicated with you? How can you, when what you describe is so tenuous, and so universal among believers of every other god imaginable throughout human history? As I say, you're coming here trying to feed us total baloney.

[Ouroboros]

...

Obviously he missed. Because he lives I can face tomorrow...hehe..what a fucked up bastard I am. God is nature, thank goodness God isn't Randy Johnson because I'd be dead by now.

 

Amen and amen. HIT ME

I don't think you were crazy, but I think it was a moment where you had to deal with you taking charge over your life. You had to prove to yourself that the life you have is completely yours. Well done. And ... thank Thor that you didn't get hit!

[Ouroboros]

Some kind of "something more" connection seems to be wired into humans. It manifests in so many ways. What you describe, I've felt something similar looking up at the sky at night.

 

Sometimes when I sing positive, praiseful music in a group, I get hot inside for the duration of the song. I get that interconnected feeling there, too, and I am filled with joy. It's beautiful.

And sometimes I can get this feeling when listening to some good song too. The kind that just take you away, and you prefer to sit in a chair with a headset, close your eyes, and just drift away in a trance-like state.

[Abiyoyo]

A fact? Since when? What signs are those and what evidence do you have of that? And no, the bible doesn't count as a sign. If it's a fact, why don't you try to win Randi's million dollar prize? http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html And how is it pointless for God to show a sign to everyone just because he showed a sign to some people? That's like saying since a judge has evidence a criminal is guilty, then it's pointless to show the rest of the court the evidence. Your argument would never fly if you were trying to prove something in a court of law.

 

People feeling as though God is giving them signs is as factual in our world as people that swear they feel like someone at school is picking on them. The feeling from the person that someone is picking on them is real and genuine, yet, nobody may be actually picking on them; same to a person that feels that God is communicating to them. Is is factual in the sense of it is a feeling from the person that stated the claim.

[Abiyoyo]

Perhaps He chooses to communicate to only certain people? Perhaps you aren't one of those people?

...

So, yes, Biblically, God choses certain ''chosen'' ones to communicate through, and seems He also choses when to show signs to His creation.

Here's a thought, maybe God is Nature, and we all are seeing the real, true signs of God, which are that we can live, breathe, talk, experience, etc. So if God is Nature, and Nature is God, then God does prove him/her/itself to us all the time, but there's nothing more to it, or any supernatural or infinite incorporeal brain somewhere which proves itself. Life and Nature is what it is. Instead of "I AM WHO I AM" we could say "IT IS WHAT IT IS." And there you have the one and only true God, which is just life, nature, existence, and the universe. Why is it necessary to invent something beyond what is?

 

 

And we still pray to and try to please the fickle Nature-God, and we try to circumvent its actions against us, for instance by eating vitamins to live longer, driving cars to get faster between places, making and using computers to help us think and communicate with each other and conspire even more against the powers of Nature, and so on. We interact with Nature, because simply put: we exist in Nature, we are gods ourselves within Nature. So really, why add an extra layer of God-outside-of-nature-and-not-of-it, if Nature is talking to us all the time, and we are part of it? I'm not sure why people need to have schizophrenic episodes just to experience God? Why not just take a walk or a bike ride in the nearby park? That's true spirituality!

 

 

You know, a couple of weeks after I lost my faith, I had a strong spiritual experience. I was walking late at night, and it was a crystal clear sky where I could see the moon and the stars, and I had this feeling of connectivity to it all. I felt a true unity with everything, the Universe, and what to be a being existing in an finite place and time, within the infinite. It was *awesome*! Christianity and any other fake/plastic substitute can not give you that feeling, because it's just a bromide for the true sublime experience of living.

 

I respect that Hans, as I also respect your beliefs. I too have had this moment in life, where you stated that the sky was crystal clear, and see the moon and stars, with the connectivity. I never noticed much of life around me, until I had this moment. It truly is an awesome feeling. You and I are not that much different Hans. I didn't have this and other moments with nature until I became religious, in respect of acknowledging God in general. I paid no mind to these things before I put my thoughts into God. Your moment was by loss of faith in God, which is the exact opposite. I bet though, we could both sit, look, and be in awe at the same time with the same moments, no matter what our differences are. Hopefully, we wouldn't disrupt the beauty of it all with a debate on whether it all came from God, or of itself. :wink:

[Abiyoyo]

Perhaps He chooses to communicate to only certain people? Perhaps you aren't one of those people?

 

I see your getting roasted here Trout, and I probably will as well; but I agree. If we are talking Bible God, for Bible God, then it is only fair to point out that Bible God does usually ''choose'' the people He wishes to communicate with.

 

...

 

So, yes, Biblically, God choses certain ''chosen'' ones to communicate through, and seems He also choses when to show signs to His creation.

That's where I am, I've had some sort of communication/connection with God, I can't explain it in any detail, but it seems very real to me none the less.

No personal offense, Trout and YoYo, but your statements are just pure and utter crap.

 

What did any of that have to do with the fact that Bible God chooses people?? I pointed out the obvious, which isn't crap, but obvious. The Bible God choses people. What does that have to do with your post?? It doesn't relate. Even if we were just speaking in general, it still wouldn't apply; as there are plenty of people that claim that God communicates with them, and they are clinically fine. I understand if you want to vent, but calling an obvious fact ''crap'' makes you look a little immature, as it isn't really crap. It's just not your cup of tea