Believe

[florduh]

Just trying to get a bead on where you are coming from...

 

Good luck with that. Personally, I think he needs to sort out his personal dogma at a religious forum. He accepts Christ and denies Christianity. I mean, WTF? What do real non-Christians have to offer such a person?

[Kathlene]

Depending on whether or not the sect you belong to/are referring to holds a mass delusion that they are the one and only "True Christians" and what form of non sequitor arguments they use to justify said delusional beliefs...The answer is either "No","Yes","Maybe", or "I haz cheezeburger".

love the cheezeburger line there...so funny!!

yep thats funny i don't care who you are

today, ...is english your first language? because there are a lot of things you are typing that just dont make sense to me. Btw, is it breeding season for disruptive christians around here? This thread is starting to look a lot like the "Howdy" thread that TroutX11 started a few days ago..

Come on guys, start making sense and you might gain a little shred of respect or at least ears that might want to listen to you. If not, what the hell do you think we are? I feel like a school teacher trying to decipher a kid's homework on some of these threads that just dont make any sort of sense.!

[centauri]

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

I cannot find the water part here can you help me

 

Here's the water:

Acts 8:36-38

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

[today]

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

I cannot find the water part here can you help me

 

Here's the water:

Acts 8:36-38

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

yes i see the water here, i just don't see where you have to be imersed in water.

[Ouroboros]

yes i see the water here, i just don't see where you have to be imersed in water.

From the word "baptize". Comes from the Greek word: "baptizein", which means: "to immerse". The Catholic Church re-interpreted it to "ceremonial washing."

 

From Strong's Lexicon:

Strong's Number: 907

baptivzw from a derivative of (911)

Transliterated Word

Baptizo

Phonetic Spelling

bap-tid'-zo

 

Definition

 

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)

2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe

3. to overwhelm

 

Not to be confused with 911, bapto. The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped'(bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change. When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g.Mark 16:16. 'He that believes and is baptised shall be saved'.Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle! Bible Study Magazine, James Montgomery Boice, May 1989.

[today]

cannot find the water part here can you help me

 

Not sure if you're being cute. Chef was referring to the section he bolded in the original quote:

 

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

Let me guess - you don't follow a religion, you have a personal relationship? Just trying to get a bead on where you are coming from...

i am not trying to be cute, i am really trying to find where the water was in that scripture, it does talk about being imersed in the name of Jesus.i do not mean any disrespect.

 

that was a good guess my friend, so many differant religions, and christains have told me that i am wrrong when ask queastions, like if there was a world wide flood around 2285 B.C. why the pyrimids that where built before that time did not have any evidense of a flood, let me tell you the t will bring a left foot of fellowship quick.

i was not trying to challenge them are any one here.

trying to find people who are open minded is prooving to be a daunting task.

[shantonu]

i was not trying to challenge them are any one here.

trying to find people who are open minded is prooving to be a daunting task.

 

Open-minded about what? The existence of an invisible God? Why should we be open-minded about that? You're not open-minded about the existence of an invisible Atman that permeates the universe? Or are you? Maybe you are. If you're willing to talk about Atman, I'll be willing to talk about YHWH.

[today]

yes i see the water here, i just don't see where you have to be imersed in water.

From the word "baptize". Comes from the Greek word: "baptizein", which means: "to immerse". The Catholic Church re-interpreted it to "ceremonial washing."

 

From Strong's Lexicon:

Strong's Number: 907

baptivzw from a derivative of (911)

Transliterated Word

Baptizo

Phonetic Spelling

bap-tid'-zo

 

Definition

 

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)

2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe

3. to overwhelm

 

Not to be confused with 911, bapto. The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped'(bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change. When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g.Mark 16:16. 'He that believes and is baptised shall be saved'.Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle! Bible Study Magazine, James Montgomery Boice, May 1989.

 

thanks my friend for the definition, and the not to be confused with,

but more improtantly the second part,

[today]

i was not trying to challenge them are any one here.

trying to find people who are open minded is prooving to be a daunting task.

 

Open-minded about what? The existence of an invisible God? Why should we be open-minded about that? You're not open-minded about the existence of an invisible Atman that permeates the universe? Or are you? Maybe you are. If you're willing to talk about Atman, I'll be willing to talk about YHWH.

who is atman

[par4dcourse]

I'm not as PC as some of my brethren here. Your bible is bullshit, your gawd is bullshit, and therefore your belief system, whatever that is, can't be anything but bullshit. Any questions?

[Caretaker]

To Believe in the Bible,Christ and God.

Does that make you a Christain.

 

 

Depends on the Christian you ask.

 

 

 

 

 

Hehehehehe.... Gotta love paradoxes.

christains, where ? I asked you

 

paradoxes does that take out stains too

 

 

Perhaps you should look up paradox on Wikipedia.....

 

 

Here's another example of a paradox:

 

The statement below is true.

The statement above is false.

 

Can you logically deduct whether or not those statements can be true or false?

 

Here's another one:

 

Let N be the set of sets that do not contain themselves.

Does N contain itself?

 

So think about it. How can we really know what a Christian is when we have millions of self-described Christians who tend to disagree with each other about what a Christian is.

[shantonu]

i was not trying to challenge them are any one here.

trying to find people who are open minded is prooving to be a daunting task.

 

Open-minded about what? The existence of an invisible God? Why should we be open-minded about that? You're not open-minded about the existence of an invisible Atman that permeates the universe? Or are you? Maybe you are. If you're willing to talk about Atman, I'll be willing to talk about YHWH.

who is atman

 

Atman is an impersonal force that underlies all existence. It can be thought of as "breath," or the "self," but really Atman lies beyond human understanding.

 

Imagine that you are a person, which of course you are. But now meditate on yourself. Are you a male or a female? Imagine that your gender we stripped away. Are you a certain profession or are you studying something in particular? Now strip that away. Strip away your nationality. Strip away your age, your language. Keep meditating on how all of these qualties are not really you.

 

If you keep going you'll eventually wind up recognizing that you are nothing and yet you are all things. This, is a sense, it the beginning of understanding Atman that is true Self.

[today]

Just trying to get a bead on where you are coming from...

 

Good luck with that. Personally, I think he needs to sort out his personal dogma at a religious forum. He accepts Christ and denies Christianity. I mean, WTF? What do real non-Christians have to offer such a person?

you asked, could you define real non-christains for me, i am not trying to challenge you, i just think that would be a great offer to such a person as me,

[today]

I'm not as PC as some of my brethren here. Your bible is bullshit, your gawd is bullshit, and therefore your belief system, whatever that is, can't be anything but bullshit. Any questions?

no if that is what you believe then bullshit works for me, do you have any queastions for me

[today]

To Believe in the Bible,Christ and God.

Does that make you a Christain.

 

 

Depends on the Christian you ask.

 

 

 

 

 

Hehehehehe.... Gotta love paradoxes.

christains, where ? I asked you

 

paradoxes does that take out stains too

 

 

Perhaps you should look up paradox on Wikipedia.....

 

 

Here's another example of a paradox:

 

The statement below is true.

The statement above is false.

 

Can you logically deduct whether or not those statements can be true or false?

 

Here's another one:

 

Let N be the set of sets that do not contain themselves.

Does N contain itself?

 

So think about it. How can we really know what a Christian is when we have millions of self-described Christians who tend to disagree with each other about what a Christian is.

thanks for the leason in paradox

i have thought about that very point the name christain came after the day of penticost in the bible i don't believe that Christ came up with that, and you are 100% right,

[today]

i was not trying to challenge them are any one here.

trying to find people who are open minded is prooving to be a daunting task.

 

Open-minded about what? The existence of an invisible God? Why should we be open-minded about that? You're not open-minded about the existence of an invisible Atman that permeates the universe? Or are you? Maybe you are. If you're willing to talk about Atman, I'll be willing to talk about YHWH.

who is atman

 

Atman is an impersonal force that underlies all existence. It can be thought of as "breath," or the "self," but really Atman lies beyond human understanding.

 

Imagine that you are a person, which of course you are. But now meditate on yourself. Are you a male or a female? Imagine that your gender we stripped away. Are you a certain profession or are you studying something in particular? Now strip that away. Strip away your nationality. Strip away your age, your language. Keep meditating on how all of these qualties are not really you.

 

If you keep going you'll eventually wind up recognizing that you are nothing and yet you are all things. This, is a sense, it the beginning of understanding Atman that is true Self.

 

you know i think i have heard about atman, have you got any books or papers that i can identify your thoughts and beliefs with.

[shantonu]

i was not trying to challenge them are any one here.

trying to find people who are open minded is prooving to be a daunting task.

 

Open-minded about what? The existence of an invisible God? Why should we be open-minded about that? You're not open-minded about the existence of an invisible Atman that permeates the universe? Or are you? Maybe you are. If you're willing to talk about Atman, I'll be willing to talk about YHWH.

who is atman

 

Atman is an impersonal force that underlies all existence. It can be thought of as "breath," or the "self," but really Atman lies beyond human understanding.

 

Imagine that you are a person, which of course you are. But now meditate on yourself. Are you a male or a female? Imagine that your gender we stripped away. Are you a certain profession or are you studying something in particular? Now strip that away. Strip away your nationality. Strip away your age, your language. Keep meditating on how all of these qualties are not really you.

 

If you keep going you'll eventually wind up recognizing that you are nothing and yet you are all things. This, is a sense, it the beginning of understanding Atman that is true Self.

 

you know i think i have heard about atman, have you got any books or papers that i can identify your thoughts and beliefs with.

 

I have a few suggestions. First (and I know this is controversia) I'd watch the movie or read the book Legend of Bagger Vance. Read the book or watch the movie Siddartha. The book, by Herman Hesse, is awesome.

 

None of these books and movies really discuss Atman, but they are about Eastern philosophy, Hinduism and Buddhism. I think these books and movies best explain Eastern and Indic thought to Westerners. You can, if you want, read the Isa Upanishad here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe01/sbe01243.htm

 

But I think it's a bit confusing to just jump in. You would need a starter, which is why I recommend the books and movies as a first step.

[Neon Genesis]

To Believe in the Bible,Christ and God.

Does that make you a Christain.

Which bible?

 

the first ones to follow Christ did not really have A Name they where called the way or the sect, it was not till penticost that they where labeled christains.

Not another one of these The Way xtians. Didn't we have one of these a few months ago? What evidence do you have of this claim?

 

yep christianity thats the one you have to believe thier way and only they are right

How are you any different?

 

i have thought about that very point the name christain came after the day of penticost in the bible i don't believe that Christ came up with that, and you are 100% right,

There weren't any non-Jewish Christians until after the Day Of Pentecost either, so why don't you become a Messianic Jew if you want to be consistent?

[Astreja]

Given that, in My opinion, neither Jesus nor Biblegod nor the Holy Spook actually exist, and considering that the Bible is a poorly-written plagiaristic anthology of middle Eastern mythology and historical tidbits...

 

...And given that behaviour of alleged Christians is all over the board, from compassionate, first-rate citizen of the world to evil scumbag extraordinaire...

 

...What else could define a Christian, other than an profession of belief?

that is deffinantly an opinion, what do you believe

What do I believe? Well, I think that gods are improbable at best, and that the god of the Bible is far too absurd to take seriously.

 

And I've read enough Mesopotamian mythology to recognize it when it pops up in the Old Testament. The story of the flood is borrowed; 'Elohim' is probably the god El and his family of gods; and I think that the snake in the Adam and Eve story represents the early goddess-worship that was subsequently crushed by the cult of Yahweh.

 

Lately, I've come up with a new hypothesis regarding the origins of Christianity: That the character of Jesus is a myth based on the teachings of the Jewish scholar Hillel the Elder, with a bit of Dionysus thrown in.

 

As for the Holy Spirit, the character represents yet more meddling in human free will by an all-powerful puppetmaster-deity. Between "Satan" allegedly pulling one way on the human conscience, and the H.S. pulling the other way, what's the point in Biblegod judging humanity at all? It's essentially having an argument with itself, with humans as collateral damage.

[today]

To Believe in the Bible,Christ and God.

Does that make you a Christain.

Which bible? the concordant literal version,

 

the first ones to follow Christ did not really have A Name they where called the way or the sect, it was not till penticost that they where labeled christains.

Not another one of these The Way xtians. Didn't we have one of these a few months ago? What evidence do you have of this claim?

no not a the way xtain, is he still here, this is just one

Act 9:2 requests from him letters for Damascus to the synagogues, so that, if he should be finding any who are of the way, both men and women, he may be leading them bound to Jerusalem."

yep christianity thats the one you have to believe thier way and only they are right

How are you any different?

i believe that we can all learn the truth together christain,jew,atheist,humanist no one group has the corner on truth.

 

i have thought about that very point the name christain came after the day of penticost in the bible i don't believe that Christ came up with that, and you are 100% right,

There weren't any non-Jewish Christians until after the Day Of Pentecost either, so why don't you become a Messianic Jew if you want to be consistent?

you say that much clearer than i did, and thanks for asking but in checking that out i think i will stay out.

[Guest Net Eng]

I'm not as PC as some of my brethren here. Your bible is bullshit, your gawd is bullshit, and therefore your belief system, whatever that is, can't be anything but bullshit. Any questions?

no if that is what you believe then bullshit works for me, do you have any queastions for me

 

 

One question. Why do you believe in bullshit ?? (See definition 2 of the noun form please).

[today]

Given that, in My opinion, neither Jesus nor Biblegod nor the Holy Spook actually exist, and considering that the Bible is a poorly-written plagiaristic anthology of middle Eastern mythology and historical tidbits...

 

...And given that behaviour of alleged Christians is all over the board, from compassionate, first-rate citizen of the world to evil scumbag extraordinaire...

 

...What else could define a Christian, other than an profession of belief?

that is deffinantly an opinion, what do you believe

What do I believe? Well, I think that gods are improbable at best, and that the god of the Bible is far too absurd to take seriously.

 

And I've read enough Mesopotamian mythology to recognize it when it pops up in the Old Testament. The story of the flood is borrowed; 'Elohim' is probably the god El and his family of gods; and I think that the snake in the Adam and Eve story represents the early goddess-worship that was subsequently crushed by the cult of Yahweh.

 

Lately, I've come up with a new hypothesis regarding the origins of Christianity: That the character of Jesus is a myth based on the teachings of the Jewish scholar Hillel the Elder, with a bit of Dionysus thrown in.

 

As for the Holy Spirit, the character represents yet more meddling in human free will by an all-powerful puppetmaster-deity. Between "Satan" allegedly pulling one way on the human conscience, and the H.S. pulling the other way, what's the point in Biblegod judging humanity at all? It's essentially having an argument with itself, with humans as collateral damage.

Given that, in My opinion, neither Jesus nor Biblegod nor the Holy Spook actually exist, and considering that the Bible is a poorly-written plagiaristic anthology of middle Eastern mythology and historical tidbits...

 

...And given that behaviour of alleged Christians is all over the board, from compassionate, first-rate citizen of the world to evil scumbag extraordinaire...

 

...What else could define a Christian, other than an profession of belief?

that is deffinantly an opinion, what do you believe

What do I believe? Well, I think that gods are improbable at best, and that the god of the Bible is far too absurd to take seriously.

i can live with that, where did we come from, that is the human part of us.

 

And I've read enough Mesopotamian mythology to recognize it when it pops up in the Old Testament. The story of the flood is borrowed; 'Elohim' is probably the god El and his family of gods; and I think that the snake in the Adam and Eve story represents the early goddess-worship that was subsequently crushed by the cult of Yahweh.

where was the flood borrowed from, the rest i will have meditate on

 

Lately, I've come up with a new hypothesis regarding the origins of Christianity: That the character of Jesus is a myth based on the teachings of the Jewish scholar Hillel the Elder, with a bit of Dionysus thrown in.

i will look at those guys later

 

As for the Holy Spirit, the character represents yet more meddling in human free will by an all-powerful puppetmaster-deity. Between "Satan" allegedly pulling one way on the human conscience, and the H.S. pulling the other way, what's the point in Biblegod judging humanity at all? It's essentially having an argument with itself, with humans as collateral damage.

free will now thats another story in its self, and being doubled minde is just what the advisary wants. how are humans collateral damage

[today]

I'm not as PC as some of my brethren here. Your bible is bullshit, your gawd is bullshit, and therefore your belief system, whatever that is, can't be anything but bullshit. Any questions?

no if that is what you believe then bullshit works for me, do you have any queastions for me

 

 

One question. Why do you believe in bullshit ?? (See definition 2 of the noun form please).

if that is what you believe and you feel so strongly about what I believe, "is bullshit" who am i to change your mind, that is one we will deffinently have to wait on to find out.

[mwc]

To repeat myself:

 

Why don't you just cut to the chase and save us all a lot of trouble?

 

mwc

[Astreja]

free will now thats another story in its self, and being doubled minde is just what the advisary wants. how are humans collateral damage

What adversary? If your myths are to be believed, your hypothetical god is the creator and controller of literally everything, including Satan and the Holy Spirit. Biblegod, being omnipotent and omniscient, decides what Ultimate Reality should be. Then it assigns a Good Cop and Bad Cop to jerk us around; and tosses into eternal perdition anyone who fails the test that he/she couldn't possibly pass because Biblegod was in control of the whole situation from the beginning.

 

In a universe supposedly controlled by an all-powerful, all-knowing deity, "free will" is an illusion.