My Greatest Dilema - Please Help Me

[Scorpion]

is it a good idea to try to 'preach atheism?' It really is sad that it can separate families.

 

Hey there, Shockwave!

 

I read your story and I hope that you find yourself, essentially. You've had people for so long telling you what to do, what to think and what to feel that now you need to to find out what is yours and what has been imposed on you. That relates to the 'preaching atheism' thing.

 

In my humble opinion, I believe that you should first find out what you believe in. Ask yourself tough questions. Try to write down what your beliefs are. Think it through. Question things, especially things that others regard as unquestionable!

 

For curiosity's sake, I'd like to add two things I've found over the web, which may or may not help you on your journey. First, it's RationalWiki's Guide For The Newly Deconverted.

 

The other, well, takes a little more explaining. You said in your original point that you found yourself without a meaning to life. Well, I personally find meaning in my life trying to find more and more about the world I live in. And since I read you are going to college and enjoy learning there, I entertained the notion that knowledge as meaning to one's life could resonate with you.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, I present you:

 

The Hubble Deep Field!!!

 

In that picture there are over 3000 galaxies shown. Yet, the field of view that picture represents is about the same as a tennis ball when viewed from 100 yards (or meters) away.

 

I hope that blew your mind as it blew mine!

 

Lol, sorry, I'm not very coherent right now, damn sleep! Best of luck with your Journey, Shockwave! It sure is an exciting one!

[Scorpion]

Scorpion,

 

The first time I saw the Hubble Deep Field image, I was moved like nothing had ever moved me before. I felt like I was seeing the root of all life, of all questioning, and of all mystery: in essence, "God". I, like you, found tremendous excitement and purpose in pursuing knowledge of the world I live upon, as well as the universe that cradles us.

 

It's so cool to discover a kindred spirit in this!

 

Phanta

 

Hey Phanta!

 

I don't really know what to say. When I was little, my vaccine against religion was science. Namelly, a book about astronautics my mother had. I didn't know how to read back then but I liked to leaf through the pages filled with photos os Gagarin, the Vostok rockets, Sputnik, the Apollo spacecraft, Armstrong and Aldrin... When my grandma told me God was in "heaven", my first thought was "but if he's in heaven, why haven't the austronauts seen him?"

You know, I don't know if you like philosophy or not, but I would strongly recomend that you read Plato's Republic. In it, he argues that all Good comes from Truth and all Evil comes from Falsehood. It's a philosophy I try to live by. That's why those who try to banish the truth are, for me, the most evil persons on Earth. But truth is like olive oil. It allways comes up!

[TheMathGuy]

Thank you so much to all that responded so far.

 

Today, I was more depressed than ever. I need some help guys..I almost feel tempted to jump back into Christianity. I feel dull right now...I have this overall fear like I will never be able to truly enjoy life again if I 'forsake' Christianity. I keep remembering all the things Christians say about people that 'fall away' from the faith, and I keep wondering whether they are really right or not. Could we, all of us as 'ex-Christians' really just be doing all this because we want to sin? When I think about the things I read on here, the old 'red flags' I was taught to see pop up all over the place. I hear someone say they are no longer limited by the idea of 'sin,' I remember what I was taught about how people will become confused as to what is right, and about what is wrong.

 

Been there, done that! It's not about wanting to sin, it's about wanting to know the real truth. Christian fundamentalists will never stop accusing you of wanting to sin though, and unfortunately it's just something you're going to have to get used to. I don't know of any serious Christians who, after they left the faith, went out partying, doing illegal drugs, stealing things, raping people and all the ridiculous things they say you'll do without God there to help you not do them. They and you have already learned a lot within the context of their faith. Now you just need to transfer that knowledge to a new context. For example: You know it's wrong to do something to somebody that will hurt them. Plenty of non-Christians know this too. From your first post it's clear you've spent some serious time thinking about moral issues. This is not just going to suddenly 'vanish' once you stop being a Christian. You will still care about morality. While it may feel good not to be limited by the idea of 'sin', it is clear we need to be limited by something--some code of ethics that governs our behavior. But knowing the reasons for the limitations you impose on yourself is vastly superior to accepting the arbitrary limitations imposed on you by others. I have been a non-believer for long enough now that I am not at all confused about what is right and what is wrong. I have a system of ethics and I understand the reasons that are the foundation of that system of ethics. In fact I'd say I'm a lot less confused about what is right and wrong than I was back when I was a Christian. And when fundamentalist Christians accuse me of just wanting to sin, it doesn't bother me internally in the least--because I know it isn't true.

 

And then, what to you guys make of the fact that Christians always say (it is somewhere in the Bible, I'm not gonna look for it right now) that to unbelievers the things of God are foolishness?.....That is scaring me a little bit as well. What if I am really just 'blinded' to the sight of what Christianity is. Or what if the people here were never really Christians to begin with, the people in this forum are all the posers, like me?

 

I was as Christian as they come. I believed in the power of Jesus Christ. I had prayed the sinner's prayer and surrendered my life to Jesus. I had the evidence of the Fruits of the Spirit. I knew I was saved. Any criterion you can think of for a "real" Christian, I can assure you I qualified for. If I wasn't a real Christian then no one was. And what Christians call "the things of God" are not mere foolishness to me, because I've been there. I can understand that mindset even though I don't agree with it any more. Part of the reason the psalmist and the Christians who came later might have wanted to say "the things of God are foolishness to the unbeliever" is because they had doubts about it themselves. This is nothing more than a clever psychological device to justify one's inability to support one's position with reason. Rather than admit you have doubt (which is evil in the Christian's eyes), you make an appeal to having "special knowledge" that no one else has, and in so doing "explain away" all your opponents' reasons for disagreeing with you. You say to yourself "I can't explain it I just know it!" (when really you don't know it or you wouldn't be getting so defensive) in an attempt to cover up your own doubts.

 

HOWEVER, something happened today between my parents and I that really reminded me why I wanted to get away from Christianity. I was sitting at the table, eating with my parents, and telling my mom about my Anthropology class. At one point she just stopped me and said, "It would be a much better use of their time (the anthropologists') if they would read the Bible instead of spend all their time studying such nonsense." You see! this is what I am growing up with. I feel so disheartened...They see anything that simply advances mankind as meaningless in comparison to advancing one's spiritual walk. How can I regain my interest in things 'of this world,' that they have helped me lose? I feel so sad looking out at the world...my parents make it look so dry and worthless. I said back to my mom, "But, I have to take this course for my GE's." She said, "Well, son, it's just gonna have to be one of those things you just 'get through.'" So I'm not allowed, apparently, to have any real interest in my subject, so they really shouldn't be angry if I don't get an A? Wrong, they still value school in general, probably because they haven't thought about it. If they had, they'd recommend I be a monk, I'm sure. FML

 

If any of you have any advice you think would help me, I'm listening

 

I think the single most important thing you can do right now, if you can afford it, is to find a roommate to rent an apartment or a dorm with. Still living with your parents makes it very hard to mature and grow as your own independent person. Then see if your college has any kind of skeptic society or some similar student organization. No need to mention this to your parents of course--what they don't know won't hurt them. It would help you to meet people in real life whom you can relate to. This forum, as good as it may be, is no substitute for real human-to-human interaction.

 

And yes, life still has meaning even if it comes to an end. If you read some of the other deconversion stories, they talk about this. Besides this site, there are also other excellent places where people have talked about their own experiences:

Ex-Christian Testimonials

Thequestionmarkofgod

[shockwaves]

Ok, I don't like how many views this is getting haha...making me a little bit nervous, maybe I should shut this down soon.

 

The Mathguy, I know exactly what you mean about wanting to know the real truth, that is what I have been searching for my entire life, and Christianity isn't giving it to me.

 

I am pleased to report that my outlook on life has quickly become much MUCH better. I now realize that the only reason I had to despair before was because I still had an inkling of a doubt - one that told me God MIGHT still exist. I really don't think so.

 

Already, I feel freed from all the conventions of my ubringing..I don't feel like I have to hold myself back and analyze my every motion during conversations, for one thing. I started (as of last week) going to the gym regularly again, and have enjoyed my time there so much now that I'm not worrying about disappointing God! wow!

 

I also joined an honor society, where I'm meeting other students with like interests in the academic field - I actually decided to run for an office haha (the group only has 20 members as of right now), and I am already good friends with the new president (she's the one who convinced me to run for an office).

 

OK, NOW FOR THE BIGGEST PIECE OF NEWS!! ......................... I have a date. I really don't believe it myself. I HAVE A DATE! I barely start to finally act on all my doubts and suspicions about God, my family, and the lifestyle I've been leading...and I actually have a date set up for next week!!!!!!!!! Like some of you said, I'm not planning on 'going crazy' and living the 'pagan life' (as defined by my church). I enjoy life when lived morally. I do, however, believe it is time I began dating. If I were still thinking like a Christian right now, I'd say that the way everything was working out was God's providence, but I'm not. Instead, I see it as proof that I did not need that construction that I called 'God' in order to suceed in life. In fact I found that 'God' held me back from everything.

 

Anyway, a girl left her number on my car (I saw her before, and she honked and pointed before she left), and, for the first time in my life, I didn't piously throw the number away. I started texting her.. I kept the texting going for about a week, and today I asked her to go out to coffee with me...she said yes. My parents, of course would never approve, which is why its good i'm also on the school newspaper (I have long assignments to do all the time) I can tell them I have an assignment during that time.

 

Two things: First, I really need to move away my parents don't believe me, they still think I'm a Christian. Whenever I tell them I'm not they threaten to make me move out. I can't move out yet...I need to be accepted into a good school or I would hurt their feelings if I just move out for no reason (other than a good school). I don't know what to do........

 

 

SECONDLY, I NEED HELP WITH MY DATE!!! I know its not a real first date, and the whole thing might've been a bad idea...just coffee?? neway, its set for 7:30pm, and I have no idea what to do. I have never been on a date before, and a part of me (the part that loves to live in anonymity) is wishing I had never asked her. How should something like this go?? I know that we'll sit there talk for one, maybe two hours (to get to know each other), but then what? I know I'll end up sitting there, wondering how to wrap it up. We are taking separate cars there...so no driving her home..(at least I think! come to think of it I never specified how we'd get there, I just asked her if 7:30pm at the place was good) damnit...bad idea? should I have said I'll pick her up?. . . . Shoot, and what about the problem with her not knowing I've never been on a date before? My nervousness level will be far superior to her own..

 

How do I dress....wow.. The only non-christian friends I can talk to about this are my co-workers, some of whom I am very good friends with. I've left them messages, hopefully they'll help me out too. Otherwise, I'm hoping to get some advice here?

 

I love you all, thanks so much

 

Btw, I had much more confidence in myself @ work today. My dad has always told me not to derive my confidence from myself, but to be confident in who I am in God. That always left me wondering what the point of learning to become skilled at anything was (If I couldn't rely on the confidence I would build up by studying), but anyways...I had a patient in bad shape today, and I was able to mask her, suction her, etc. without doubting myself or my 'motives.' Having to put God into my thinking everywhere really sort of blocked my 'processor' (brain). It was as if I had installed a huge, poorly developed anti-virus suite on my computer, and then asked my computer to continue being fast. Everything I had to process through 'God's Eyes' took me so much longer, I was always afraid of sinning, or of offending God.

 

BTW, the Hubble Deep Field Image is amazing!!!!!!!!!! I love that!

[Kurari]

Welcome to our board!

 

I'm sorry about your folks and how much this affecting you. Your parents have inadvertently shirked their duties as parents to you, focusing more on gods than giving you the essentials you needed to function as an adult. It's really no wonder you're feeling depressed, upset, and lost. Your parents haven't taught you how to live and function socially!

 

Because of this, now you are an adult and stuck without any "trail markers" in life to help you navigate. You want to keep going back to what you understand and know, very understandably because you don't know another way right now. This WILL change the more you work at it. I won't sugar coat it and say it won't be easy or quick, but it DOES happen. This forum is FULL of people who have overcome this very thing you are going through.

 

I echo you need to get out of your living situation. It doesn't matter if your commute is lengthened to your college. You're being mentally abused. I know that's a harsh thing to say, and I know your parents don't mean it to be cruel. They honestly think they are giving you what they think is best. But best intentions don't negate what they are doing is incredibly harmful to you. Religion is funny like that. Right now you desperately need your space and time to heal without influence.

 

We all want to please our parents, and it sounds like you've really tried. It hurts like nothing else on the planet when our loved ones don't accept us for being who we are. I really hate to say this, but you ARE going to have to disappoint your parents. You are going to end up locking horns with them on this and disrupt what little loving family life you have. I really hate saying that because I know how unbelievably painful that is...but I also know how painful it is trying to be myself in a household of people who wouldn't allow me to live as myself. That hurts even worse.

 

You are going to end up in a lot of fights with your family, and you need to get more steady on your feet and your life first without the strife. So definitely, the first thing you need to do is start researching. I recommend looking at http://www.ehow.com/ for learning how to budget, work your finances, look for an apartment, or even do basic cooking and cleaning.

 

You're going to be ok. You have a moral compass that is working just fine and doesn't need your parents or a god to babysit it anymore.

[Seeker630]

from Shockwaves:

 

"That brings me to a little side-theory - I think that perhaps Christians have to come to a realization that they see something wrong with Christianity on their own, but I'm not sure."

 

The next time he try's that same move,just ask him:

 

Who are you trying to convince--------me?---------or YOU?

 

you can bet that other people who still say they are believers are usually afraid that you may be right. They have to reinforce the beliefs to benefit and validate themselves-------not just you.

 

As for the rest of it, I'll only echo what so many others have now said. You need to get the hell out of that house ASAP. You have options, and one of them is not living in the emotional and psychological equivalent of a toxic waste dump. You don't need any excuse to move out. I'm sorry to say this, but as one or two others have pointed out, your parents feelings will almost certainly be hurt no matter what you do in this regard. If they press the issue of you moving, just tell them that you're a 20 year old man and it's time to start out on your own life path.

 

That's tough shit--------they're big kids and they can learn how to cope with the reality that not everyone in their lives thinks like they do about everything. If they can't that's their problem, and there isn't much you can do to change it. But continuing to live a lie for the sake of not upsetting someone else is just not a healthy thing for you to do. That, friend, is largely what was causing the bouts of depression. It's called cognitive dissonance-------trying to maintain two completely opposed situations in your head at the same time. Something had to give sooner or later and in this case you definitely went with a vastly better mental health alternative. You should now begin to see your self esteem improving too.

 

All of us in here have gone one brand or another of what you have been feeling, some to greater extents and levels of difficulty than others.

 

 

Welcome to the club------some of the finest people you will ever meet haunt this board and others for non-believers. You are in good company. There are resources out there you never dreamed of before for people who are no longer held in the mental trap of most religions.

[Mriana]

I know you've gotten a lot of advice already, but post shows that religion is a source of misery. Short and sweet, easier said than done, I know, but you may have to pull a carpe diem, jump ship as fast as you can, stand on your own two feet, face life head on, and do what you desire with your life. This does not mean you won't have moments of feeling miserable even after you do that, I know this from my own experiences, but of course, you also have to know yourself to know what you can do. The way I did it doesn't work for everyone and there comes a point where you discover some things you can't overcome without a little help. You have to do what is best for you and what makes you happier. It is possible that your mind is so filled with junk that you can't reach your full potential intellectually. I was told a long time ago that the fastest way to become a non-believer is to actually study religion, study everything that you can get your hands on, including the psychology of it... I did that and you do end up with a lot of mimes busted, before all is said and done- or at least I did. Again, you have to know yourself and know what you want, but this is only a start and it doesn't necessarily end there. You may have to seek some help also.

 

And then, what to you guys make of the fact that Christians always say (it is somewhere in the Bible, I'm not gonna look for it right now) that to unbelievers the things of God are foolishness?.....That is scaring me a little bit as well. What if I am really just 'blinded' to the sight of what Christianity is. Or what if the people here were never really Christians to begin with, the people in this forum are all the posers, like me?

 

All the more reason, IMO, to study it and get better than they are at it. Not that it actually works, but you will know. I'm not saying just study Xianity, but also gnosticism, Hindu, Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, Confucius, mythology, etc, even non-theistic philosophies too. It gets time consuming, even all consuming, and not everyone can do all of that. I was lucky to be able to take many classes at a local uni to help me get a start on studying all of them, as well as psychology. It was a start for me.

[Scorpion]

Hey Phanta!

 

I don't really know what to say. When I was little, my vaccine against religion was science. Namelly, a book about astronautics my mother had. I didn't know how to read back then but I liked to leaf through the pages filled with photos os Gagarin, the Vostok rockets, Sputnik, the Apollo spacecraft, Armstrong and Aldrin... When my grandma told me God was in "heaven", my first thought was "but if he's in heaven, why haven't the austronauts seen him?"

 

You are so cool.

 

Lol, why? I'm like the geekiest person ever!

[BlueGiant]

I fail to see how moving out is a great insult to them, particularly if it is on your terms. After all, they are raising you to be an independent adult, right? Moving away and living on your own not only shows how you have grown, but also their success as parents in raising a functional adult. Indeed, it is high praise and helps you learn the practical lessons in being a good shepard of resources, and eventually a good and godly husband...

 

The fact that it gets you out from under their controlling thumbs and removes a large beatstick that they already, from what you have said, they use for leverage against you, is entirely secondary, right?

 

Trust me, moving out onto your own (or even with roommates) is not an insult. It is only played as one if someone is trying to manipulate you. I can assure you that a parent trying to stop your independent function as a member of society or at least smoothly transitioning to living on your own (i.e. not tossing you out on your ear), does not have your best interests at heart.

[EmmaRose]

You've gotten so much great advice all ready, but our stories seem really similar....

 

I grew up at John MacArthur's church (lucky me), my dad even went to his seminary and now works at his college. My parents are super controlling, though they do let me wear jeans (but not date), and I'm counting the days until I can move out. I know Christianity is wrong, false, etc. but I still find myself being swayed by some of their arguments. Move out if you can, don't worry about insulting them or what not. Its your life.

 

I'm in college doing my GE's too, and my parents are always always always discounting what professors/books say with "The Bible...blah blah blah". It drives me crazy. As if every single thing in life can be contained in one book?

 

Congratulations on your date! Dress somewhat casually but still look nice (does that make sense?), be funny, ask her questions, and hope for the best. Don't drag it on too long. And if it doesn't work out, don't give up. Its just one date with one girl. Good luck!

[shockwaves]

Ok, while my last post was more up-beat, this post is more of a downer lol. It seems you all are very, VERY right. No matter how hard I try to ignore my parents, they keep depressing me...though you all said I should move out, I had this idea that I could progress with my life while still living at home. I don't think that's possible now

 

They keep saying these little comments that drive me nuts. I told them yesterday I was thinking about applying to Berkley (I have the grades), and they started laughing at me. They said that Berkley would destroy me, they told me that "those people have no use for God," and that I am "far from the strong Christian I need to be." I don't know what to say to them anymore...they really don't believe that I want to leave their religion, they think I'm struggling with some temporary thing, some temporary sin, and that I only want to tell them I don't think God exists so that I can continue sinning.

 

I am seriously going to start looking for appartments now..before I tell them that I'm thinking of moving out. I want to be READY to walk out of the door when I tell them, in case things blow up.

 

Hey Shockwaves,

 

Welcome to the board.

 

I had some somewhat controlling parents when I was growing up. I think most do. Yours may be among the most if you are comparing. One thing I started to do was to say some semi smart-assed statements to them. In your case, if your parents or christian friends are accusing you of wanting to sin, give them a half smile and a smart-assed statement like..."you know what...YOU ARE RIGHT...BUT ONLY BECAUSE YOU WANT ME TO SIN...AND YOU KNOW IT!....Even if you don't admit it!" Keep turning it back on them and dish it hard at them. Use kind of a cocky funny approach. It will irritate them but it is effective. If you want to get the attitude down, go rent the movie..."Real Genius", with Val Kilmer. It came out in the 1980's. Just take an "I don't give a shit what you think" attitude. You find it relieves much stress on your part and best of all, it drives your parents and christian friends crazy...LOL.

 

Thank you, I've gotta say, I am obviously very proud to have beaten your parents with mine, I'll let them know you gave them that honor

I love your statements about the smart-assed comments hahaha, I really feel like taking that with my brother. He thinks he is now the 'Alpha male' at home, as I couldn't possibly take any important responsibilities any more, at least until I've "stopped doubting God."

 

Welcome to our board!

 

I'm sorry about your folks and how much this affecting you. Your parents have inadvertently shirked their duties as parents to you, focusing more on gods than giving you the essentials you needed to function as an adult. It's really no wonder you're feeling depressed, upset, and lost. Your parents haven't taught you how to live and function socially!

 

Because of this, now you are an adult and stuck without any "trail markers" in life to help you navigate. You want to keep going back to what you understand and know, very understandably because you don't know another way right now. This WILL change the more you work at it. I won't sugar coat it and say it won't be easy or quick, but it DOES happen. This forum is FULL of people who have overcome this very thing you are going through.

 

I echo you need to get out of your living situation. It doesn't matter if your commute is lengthened to your college. You're being mentally abused. I know that's a harsh thing to say, and I know your parents don't mean it to be cruel. They honestly think they are giving you what they think is best. But best intentions don't negate what they are doing is incredibly harmful to you. Religion is funny like that. Right now you desperately need your space and time to heal without influence.

 

We all want to please our parents, and it sounds like you've really tried. It hurts like nothing else on the planet when our loved ones don't accept us for being who we are. I really hate to say this, but you ARE going to have to disappoint your parents. You are going to end up locking horns with them on this and disrupt what little loving family life you have. I really hate saying that because I know how unbelievably painful that is...but I also know how painful it is trying to be myself in a household of people who wouldn't allow me to live as myself. That hurts even worse.

 

You are going to end up in a lot of fights with your family, and you need to get more steady on your feet and your life first without the strife. So definitely, the first thing you need to do is start researching. I recommend looking at http://www.ehow.com/ for learning how to budget, work your finances, look for an apartment, or even do basic cooking and cleaning.

 

You're going to be ok. You have a moral compass that is working just fine and doesn't need your parents or a god to babysit it anymore.

 

Thank you so much!!! I have ALOT of reading to do, you guys have all given me links. THis one has to do with budgeting...oh ok I could really use that . ON THAT SUBJECT!!! I applied for a credit card yesterday, against my dad's wishes. My co-workers have been trying to help me become more independent financially, and have given me alot of good advice on how to build credit. I asked my dad about it, he doesn't want me to have a credit card. Also on the subject of finances...My parents owe me about $2500 (borrowed to pay taxes)....I think I should get that back before leaving? Anyway, for some reason my dad doesn't think its important for me to start building credit yet, but I disagreed. I'm buying alot of things, solely with my debit account (tied to my checking). Perfect opportunity to begin building credit, I think. Something I'll need in the real world?

 

I really do feel very lost right now, though..I feel like I have no past, and I'm afraid I will not be able to make friends that will accept me as who I am, because I am meeting them at an older age... i.e., I no longer want to hang out with any of my childhood friends (all made through christian schools), as they all try to 'keep me accountable to God,' etc. I am like...an island. No current ties to anything..

 

from Shockwaves:

 

"That brings me to a little side-theory - I think that perhaps Christians have to come to a realization that they see something wrong with Christianity on their own, but I'm not sure."

 

The next time he try's that same move,just ask him:

 

Who are you trying to convince--------me?---------or YOU?

 

you can bet that other people who still say they are believers are usually afraid that you may be right. They have to reinforce the beliefs to benefit and validate themselves-------not just you.

 

As for the rest of it, I'll only echo what so many others have now said. You need to get the hell out of that house ASAP. You have options, and one of them is not living in the emotional and psychological equivalent of a toxic waste dump. You don't need any excuse to move out. I'm sorry to say this, but as one or two others have pointed out, your parents feelings will almost certainly be hurt no matter what you do in this regard. If they press the issue of you moving, just tell them that you're a 20 year old man and it's time to start out on your own life path.

 

That's tough shit--------they're big kids and they can learn how to cope with the reality that not everyone in their lives thinks like they do about everything. If they can't that's their problem, and there isn't much you can do to change it. But continuing to live a lie for the sake of not upsetting someone else is just not a healthy thing for you to do. That, friend, is largely what was causing the bouts of depression. It's called cognitive dissonance-------trying to maintain two completely opposed situations in your head at the same time. Something had to give sooner or later and in this case you definitely went with a vastly better mental health alternative. You should now begin to see your self esteem improving too.

 

All of us in here have gone one brand or another of what you have been feeling, some to greater extents and levels of difficulty than others.

 

 

Welcome to the club------some of the finest people you will ever meet haunt this board and others for non-believers. You are in good company. There are resources out there you never dreamed of before for people who are no longer held in the mental trap of most religions.

 

I can't continue to live a lie...I know, I've read some of the testimonials on here, others have gone through very similar things to me. I'm very glad that I am here, and it didn't take me longer than it did to start looking in this direction.

 

I know you've gotten a lot of advice already, but post shows that religion is a source of misery. Short and sweet, easier said than done, I know, but you may have to pull a carpe diem, jump ship as fast as you can, stand on your own two feet, face life head on, and do what you desire with your life. This does not mean you won't have moments of feeling miserable even after you do that, I know this from my own experiences, but of course, you also have to know yourself to know what you can do. The way I did it doesn't work for everyone and there comes a point where you discover some things you can't overcome without a little help. You have to do what is best for you and what makes you happier. It is possible that your mind is so filled with junk that you can't reach your full potential intellectually. I was told a long time ago that the fastest way to become a non-believer is to actually study religion, study everything that you can get your hands on, including the psychology of it... I did that and you do end up with a lot of mimes busted, before all is said and done- or at least I did. Again, you have to know yourself and know what you want, but this is only a start and it doesn't necessarily end there. You may have to seek some help also.

 

And then, what to you guys make of the fact that Christians always say (it is somewhere in the Bible, I'm not gonna look for it right now) that to unbelievers the things of God are foolishness?.....That is scaring me a little bit as well. What if I am really just 'blinded' to the sight of what Christianity is. Or what if the people here were never really Christians to begin with, the people in this forum are all the posers, like me?

 

All the more reason, IMO, to study it and get better than they are at it. Not that it actually works, but you will know. I'm not saying just study Xianity, but also gnosticism, Hindu, Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, Confucius, mythology, etc, even non-theistic philosophies too. It gets time consuming, even all consuming, and not everyone can do all of that. I was lucky to be able to take many classes at a local uni to help me get a start on studying all of them, as well as psychology. It was a start for me.

 

Thanks jumping ship sounds great! Now to figure money out...hahaha, I've always wanted to take psychology, but my parents always told me it would "mess me up" and I was "too weak" to take it. They said it would rock my faith. As I think I said before, they were right, and boy am I glad I took those types of classes. I never took psych (though I can now), but I took sociology, and that really 'rocked my faith.' Of course, they saw all the questions I asked while I was taking the class, and it confirmed in their minds that it was evil to take such classes as sociology. I am interested in taking up the study of religion, thankfully my current anthropology class talks about that alot

 

 

I fail to see how moving out is a great insult to them, particularly if it is on your terms. After all, they are raising you to be an independent adult, right? Moving away and living on your own not only shows how you have grown, but also their success as parents in raising a functional adult. Indeed, it is high praise and helps you learn the practical lessons in being a good shepard of resources, and eventually a good and godly husband...

 

The fact that it gets you out from under their controlling thumbs and removes a large beatstick that they already, from what you have said, they use for leverage against you, is entirely secondary, right?

 

Trust me, moving out onto your own (or even with roommates) is not an insult. It is only played as one if someone is trying to manipulate you. I can assure you that a parent trying to stop your independent function as a member of society or at least smoothly transitioning to living on your own (i.e. not tossing you out on your ear), does not have your best interests at heart.

 

It is a huge insult. My parents have always told us they dreamed of having a 'clan,' they always talked down about the way kids always move away from their homes. They always said it was too bad the world got away from the whole 'clan' approach like it was in the 'old days.' "Why can't we have a family business?" They have sucked me in too, to the whole "family business" thing, and its started alot of fights. My dad is very low on money, and he uses pity techniques to make me be his 'tech guy.' He doesn't want to hire one, even though I've asked him to many times. Its extremely time consuming, it makes me late to classes, sometimes i miss classes because of it. So ya, to answer your question, it would DEFINITELY, AS IN WITHOUT DOUBT offend them if I left. They'd lose a tech guy, and their idea that a family should stick together as soon as possible. My dad has already said that if I go to UCLA he wants me to live at home still (even though its an hour 15 minute drive). Frankly, they are both hypocrites. My dad left New Jersey when he was 25 to come to Cali, and left his dad and mom out there. My mom left her parents, and her mom has lived in a nursing home for many years in another state. They should be treated differently, though, after all they are raising me

 

You've gotten so much great advice all ready, but our stories seem really similar....

 

I grew up at John MacArthur's church (lucky me), my dad even went to his seminary and now works at his college. My parents are super controlling, though they do let me wear jeans (but not date), and I'm counting the days until I can move out. I know Christianity is wrong, false, etc. but I still find myself being swayed by some of their arguments. Move out if you can, don't worry about insulting them or what not. Its your life.

 

I'm in college doing my GE's too, and my parents are always always always discounting what professors/books say with "The Bible...blah blah blah". It drives me crazy. As if every single thing in life can be contained in one book?

 

Congratulations on your date! Dress somewhat casually but still look nice (does that make sense?), be funny, ask her questions, and hope for the best. Don't drag it on too long. And if it doesn't work out, don't give up. Its just one date with one girl. Good luck!

 

WOW...are you serious? That's pretty scary. We are extremely similar..you're not making all this up are you? Don't let yourself be swayed! It is my life, so what are your plans for moving out?? Does it include waiting till you get into college? Your dad works at the Masters College...amazing. I'm afraid you have it harder than me, I suppose.

 

Yes lol, I still looked nice, wore jeans, vans, and a button-up shirt Date didn't go too well, though, but that's ok.

 

 

 

If anyone here wants me to stop replying to this thread, its ok, I think its gotten too many views...lol, and my posts are always so long haha, sorry

You guys bring up such great points, though! I want to address all of them!

 

Thanks guys

[shockwaves]

I am seriously going to start looking for appartments now..before I tell them that I'm thinking of moving out. I want to be READY to walk out of the door when I tell them, in case things blow up.

 

When I first decided to move off the family compound, I didn't let them know I was looking at apartments at first, because I wanted OUT and I wanted minimal drama. I had a place lined up before I told them, and was out shortly thereafter. By then, I was single-minded in my determination to leave. If there was a fight (there usually was), I don't remember it; I was full of freedom.

 

Thank you so much!!! I have ALOT of reading to do, you guys have all given me links. THis one has to do with budgeting...oh ok I could really use that . ON THAT SUBJECT!!! I applied for a credit card yesterday, against my dad's wishes. My co-workers have been trying to help me become more independent financially, and have given me alot of good advice on how to build credit. I asked my dad about it, he doesn't want me to have a credit card. Also on the subject of finances...My parents owe me about $2500 (borrowed to pay taxes)....I think I should get that back before leaving? Anyway, for some reason my dad doesn't think its important for me to start building credit yet, but I disagreed. I'm buying alot of things, solely with my debit account (tied to my checking). Perfect opportunity to begin building credit, I think. Something I'll need in the real world?

 

I'm pretty unhappy about the debt economy we live in. It really is a warped system.

 

I love my debit card, but my credit card is, to me, a not-quite-necessary evil. I often find myself hovering over it with a pair of scissors, pissed that I am a slave to this manipulative debt system. Who ever heard of building credibility with others by digging yourself constantly into a hole?

 

Anyway. If you chose to "build credit" with the rest of us lemmings, build it with care. I had a friend that built her credit buying a candy bar a week at the corner drug store and then paying the balance at the end of the month. Brilliant!

 

Regarding the money your parents borrowed from you, did you have an arrangement with them for paying it back?

 

I really do feel very lost right now, though..I feel like I have no past, and I'm afraid I will not be able to make friends that will accept me as who I am, because I am meeting them at an older age... i.e., I no longer want to hang out with any of my childhood friends (all made through christian schools), as they all try to 'keep me accountable to God,' etc. I am like...an island. No current ties to anything..

 

What kind of stuff do you like doing, or what have you always wanted to try? If you go away to University, you'll meet a lot of people who won't care a fig about keeping you accountable to God. Whatever that means.

 

Thanks jumping ship sounds great! Now to figure money out...hahaha, I've always wanted to take psychology, but my parents always told me it would "mess me up" and I was "too weak" to take it. They said it would rock my faith. As I think I said before, they were right, and boy am I glad I took those types of classes. I never took psych (though I can now), but I took sociology, and that really 'rocked my faith.' Of course, they saw all the questions I asked while I was taking the class, and it confirmed in their minds that it was evil to take such classes as sociology. I am interested in taking up the study of religion, thankfully my current anthropology class talks about that alot

 

Psychology is my favorite "religion". Enjoy.

 

If anyone here wants me to stop replying to this thread, its ok, I think its gotten too many views...lol, and my posts are always so long haha, sorry

You guys bring up such great points, though! I want to address all of them!

 

I really enjoy your posts! Please continue as you are moved.

 

Cheers!

 

Phanta

 

thanks Phanta, I really enjoy reading yours too

 

TOTALLY agree about minimizing drama, I need to start looking. Where do I look? Craigslist?

 

As far as building credit goes, I'm NOT by any stretch of the imagination saying that I intend to go into debt haha. I said build credit, NOT ruin my life haha.

 

Right now I make purchases all the time - some big, some small, but I only buy what I have the money for right now.

 

In order to build credit, I plan on buying only what I have the money for right now, except instead of using my debit card, I'll use my credit card, and then pay the credit card off each month.

 

Basically, the point is, now is the best time of my life to 'build credit' because I can actually afford everything I'm spending money on. If I spend that money 'through' a credit card, it will seem like I am a very good credit card user.

 

I will look like I pay things back right away, when really, I didn't need to use the credit card in the first place, see what I mean? That's how you build credit (I'm told )

 

Psych is amazing , anthropology isn't bad either, Indiana Jones!!

 

Thanks again Phanta

[Seeker630]

thanks Phanta, I really enjoy reading yours too

 

TOTALLY agree about minimizing drama, I need to start looking. Where do I look? Craigslist?

 

As far as building credit goes, I'm NOT by any stretch of the imagination saying that I intend to go into debt haha. I said build credit, NOT ruin my life haha.

 

Right now I make purchases all the time - some big, some small, but I only buy what I have the money for right now.

 

In order to build credit, I plan on buying only what I have the money for right now, except instead of using my debit card, I'll use my credit card, and then pay the credit card off each month.

 

Basically, the point is, now is the best time of my life to 'build credit' because I can actually afford everything I'm spending money on. If I spend that money 'through' a credit card, it will seem like I am a very good credit card user.

 

I will look like I pay things back right away, when really, I didn't need to use the credit card in the first place, see what I mean? That's how you build credit (I'm told )

 

Excellent boy-----just excellent! Treat that damned credit card like poison. Use it only when you absolutely must and

 

Psych is amazing , anthropology isn't bad either, Indiana Jones!!

 

Thanks again Phanta

 

Sounds like a plan! (credit cards)

 

Regarding apartments, when I was escaping, I used the newspaper. Later I used word-of-mouth, but that's not always a possibility when one is trying to escape. Craigslist is probably a decent start. Or go to the university itself and look on the boards for someone advertising a room for rent.

 

Phanta

[Seeker630]

thanks Phanta, I really enjoy reading yours too

 

TOTALLY agree about minimizing drama, I need to start looking. Where do I look? Craigslist?

 

As far as building credit goes, I'm NOT by any stretch of the imagination saying that I intend to go into debt haha. I said build credit, NOT ruin my life haha.

 

Right now I make purchases all the time - some big, some small, but I only buy what I have the money for right now.

 

In order to build credit, I plan on buying only what I have the money for right now, except instead of using my debit card, I'll use my credit card, and then pay the credit card off each month.

 

Basically, the point is, now is the best time of my life to 'build credit' because I can actually afford everything I'm spending money on. If I spend that money 'through' a credit card, it will seem like I am a very good credit card user.

 

I will look like I pay things back right away, when really, I didn't need to use the credit card in the first place, see what I mean? That's how you build credit (I'm told ) OK I don't know what happened there------------but don't use that damned credit card for anything unless it's an emergency. And then pay it off as fast as you can. The credit card companies are fucking vultures-----they will suck you dry.

 

Excellent boy-----just excellent! Treat that damned credit card like poison. Use it only when you absolutely must and

 

Psych is amazing , anthropology isn't bad either, Indiana Jones!!

 

Thanks again Phanta

 

Sounds like a plan! (credit cards)

 

Regarding apartments, when I was escaping, I used the newspaper. Later I used word-of-mouth, but that's not always a possibility when one is trying to escape. Craigslist is probably a decent start. Or go to the university itself and look on the boards for someone advertising a room for rent.

 

Phanta

[pitchu]

Shockwaves, don't worry about "getting too many replies." Support is what this site is about. At about 20 pages it may be time to put a thread to bed, but you're far from that.

[.god]

hey shockwaves,

 

sounds like you might live near the orange county area? That place always scares me =)

I'd caution you about posting too much personal information, although your parents don't sound that tech savvy, you still wouldn't want them stumbling across your posts online, however unlikely that may be. The shit should hit the fan on your own terms if you know what I mean.

 

I think you should totally apply to berkeley, north cali is great, and would be a excellent change of pace especially if you have no ties. There are some stout christians there too, in fact just about every college has its little cult of fellowships, or whatever, so I'm sure you could reassure your parents that you won't be far from the house of god at all hehe. ucla is an awesome school as well though.

 

looking for apartments - if you need to move out immediately, most JC's usually have an area with a lot of apartments that the students stay at. I don't know how popular your JC is with foreign or out of town students, but generally there is a residential area where most of them live. If you take a walk around there you should see flyers, banners or ads for apartments that are leasing. Staying in the same area as other students also makes it much easier to find roommates and such. At 20 years of age it really is time to become independent. If you stay at home thru your entire college career you may find yourself suddenly ill-equipped for life when you're thrust out into the world after graduation.. unless you intend to be your parents tech slave for the rest of your life. I know how it is being the tech support person for everyone, but there's something wrong about making you miss your classes because they insist you fix some tech issue for them. There's being cheap, and then there's taking advantage and becoming abusive.

 

Credit cards - definitely get one. Go to creditcards.com and look for the one that offers you the most rewards of the type you want, with no annual fees. Basically use it as you do your debit card. An amazing number of people spend much more than they can pay for, but I can tell you're smart enough not to get caught up paying 20% finance charges every month. You will definitely need to build up a reputable credit history if you ever plan on purchasing a house/condo/townhouse, or even leasing a car or obtaining a load. The creditors will need to see that you can be relied on to make your monthly payments responsibly. A pretty screwed up sounding system for sure, but unless you can pay the $800K+ outright it costs in cali for a run-of-the-mill 2 bedroom home, you're going to have to take out some fairly large loans.

 

Your parents are very, very controlling and possibly insecure, I'd almost think they were like some crazy asian parents I know of. I'm sure the idea of you getting a credit card just screams independence to your dad. That, and the fact that they can actually make you miss your classes by causing you to feel guilty enough to stay around fixing their computer.. just reinforces the idea that you should really get out of the house asap.

 

These will be the best years of your life to explore, experiment and learn (via college classes), so take advantage of it! Take those psych classes (I highly recommend abnormal psych and pyschobiology).

 

ja ne,.

[sethosayher]

Shockwave - you kick ass! Your posts are so thoughtful, sincere and introspective, I only wish more people were willing to evaluate their beliefs like you have these past three pages.

 

You should also be proud of the fact that despite such an overwhelmingly repressive upbringing, you have begun to cast of your mental shackles. Wherever your journey leads you, I hope dearly it brings you happiness and the freedom you deserve.

[shockwaves]

hey shockwaves,

 

sounds like you might live near the orange county area? That place always scares me =)

I'd caution you about posting too much personal information, although your parents don't sound that tech savvy, you still wouldn't want them stumbling across your posts online, however unlikely that may be. The shit should hit the fan on your own terms if you know what I mean.

 

I think you should totally apply to berkeley, north cali is great, and would be a excellent change of pace especially if you have no ties. There are some stout christians there too, in fact just about every college has its little cult of fellowships, or whatever, so I'm sure you could reassure your parents that you won't be far from the house of god at all hehe. ucla is an awesome school as well though.

 

They are extremely un-tech savvy, don't worry, my computer is passworded, I am not worried that they will find anything. They can't sign onto their emails without my help most of the time...lol. My JC is pretty popular with foreign students, I know a couple. I'll start looking for the flyers. I applied for a credit card, but was told I was not likely to get anything but a secured credit card, which is not really a credit card at all, but a debit card disguised as one . What do you know of this?

 

I will take psych

 

Shockwave - you kick ass! Your posts are so thoughtful, sincere and introspective, I only wish more people were willing to evaluate their beliefs like you have these past three pages.

 

You should also be proud of the fact that despite such an overwhelmingly repressive upbringing, you have begun to cast of your mental shackles. Wherever your journey leads you, I hope dearly it brings you happiness and the freedom you deserve.

 

Wow you mean that? Thank you so much sethosayher. I'll tell you..its really not easy casting those 'shackles' off. I haven't posted in 5 days..AND I went to church yesterday, and I can feel myself weakening quite a bit. I remember seeing a few happy christians, including some couples who all looked so happy and sure of where their lives were heading. Being at home with my brother and my parents is not helping at all either. I'm still pretty lonely most of the time, I still haven't joined that honors group @ school, I was planning on doing that tomorrow though (actually today haha, its 3AM). I also hate the fact that my dad and brother walk around as if they know the absolute truth about God; in their minds it is unchallengeable. Of course I'm not thinking of being a Christian, but I'm desperately trying to figure out where my life is heading now, where I may fit in. I've always had too many interests, I'm still not sure which I would like to pursue as a career.

 

On a good side, my drive to study has improved 100%. I no longer feel like I have to purge my mind of 'unholy thoughts, motives, and desires' before allowing myself to concentrate wholly on my studies. I think that type of thinking actually led me to do things MORE for myself than now. Now that I don't have to feel like my every motive must be pure, I spend much less time thinking about myself (I think I worried alot that I wouldn't be taken care of if I purged my motives...something like that, once again I'm tired), a great relief. I'm really enjoying school and the studying.

 

When I talk to people though, I continue to have this feeling like I need to be afraid of the conversation heading toward spiritual beliefs. I know many people don't even care what your spiritual beliefs, or religion is, but I need to find those people. I need to find some friends who are just trying to figure life out, but aren't total druggies/morons either lol . Perhaps this is the type of person I'll find in the sociology club. My teacher invited me to that last year, but I wasn't far enough along to consider it. Of course my parents don't approve of sociology - they see it as "man's feeble attempt to solve problems only God has an answer to." Does that.....Frustrate you? hahaha It does me.

 

I'll try to stay on here (xchristian) more..this site really grounds me. Whenever I talk to my parents I feel like I'm jolted hundreds of feet into the air, and then tossed and turned until I don't know which way is up. I know I need to move out, but I'm pretty scared to do so. I almost feel like it would be dishonorable to leave, unless I did it a certain way. I feel like it would be totally wrong of me to leave home unless I laid out my entire beliefs against God before them first, just so they knew exactly where I stood. This would be an extremely hard thing to do, and it would involve a lot of screaming and emotional heartbreak, and I'm not sure its a good idea. Another person on this thread addressed this topic - she said she lies to her parents (tells them she's a church going christian) because she needs the family harmony. That too may be an option. I really don't know how to handle the situation.

 

Thanks for all your fantastic advice thus far guys, I'll try to keep it in mind (especially the pieces regarding my parents)

[CelticWhisper]

I know I need to move out, but I'm pretty scared to do so. I almost feel like it would be dishonorable to leave, unless I did it a certain way. I feel like it would be totally wrong of me to leave home unless I laid out my entire beliefs against God before them first, just so they knew exactly where I stood. This would be an extremely hard thing to do, and it would involve a lot of screaming and emotional heartbreak, and I'm not sure its a good idea. Another person on this thread addressed this topic - she said she lies to her parents (tells them she's a church going christian) because she needs the family harmony. That too may be an option. I really don't know how to handle the situation.

 

My suggestion would be to keep your religion (or, more to the point, lack thereof) under wraps until you've moved out and have yourself, your belongings, and your financial resources on the other side of a locked door that your family can't open. These people won't disappear once you move out, so if you feel the need you can always tell them when you come to visit (or perhaps when they come to visit you, so that you have the home court advantage, as it were). Potential blowups will be easier to handle if you don't share a home and can either drive away or tell them to get the hell out. You're legally an adult so the only real sway they have over you to force you to do, think, or be what they want is the "under my roof" argument. Once you take that away, you're their child on your terms and nobody else's. The other nice thing is that when you break the news to them, you can easily be somewhere else when they would otherwise subject you to their arguments and accusations.

 

Be warned, there will still be a lot of heartache when you tear away, but after they realize their own powerlessness to control you they'll have to assess whether they care more about their beliefs or about maintaining a relationship with you. If they care about you more, then things will improve. If they care about their beliefs more, then they're not real family and you're better off for having left.

[Mriana]

I know you've gotten a lot of advice already, but post shows that religion is a source of misery. Short and sweet, easier said than done, I know, but you may have to pull a carpe diem, jump ship as fast as you can, stand on your own two feet, face life head on, and do what you desire with your life. This does not mean you won't have moments of feeling miserable even after you do that, I know this from my own experiences, but of course, you also have to know yourself to know what you can do. The way I did it doesn't work for everyone and there comes a point where you discover some things you can't overcome without a little help. You have to do what is best for you and what makes you happier. It is possible that your mind is so filled with junk that you can't reach your full potential intellectually. I was told a long time ago that the fastest way to become a non-believer is to actually study religion, study everything that you can get your hands on, including the psychology of it... I did that and you do end up with a lot of mimes busted, before all is said and done- or at least I did. Again, you have to know yourself and know what you want, but this is only a start and it doesn't necessarily end there. You may have to seek some help also.

 

And then, what to you guys make of the fact that Christians always say (it is somewhere in the Bible, I'm not gonna look for it right now) that to unbelievers the things of God are foolishness?.....That is scaring me a little bit as well. What if I am really just 'blinded' to the sight of what Christianity is. Or what if the people here were never really Christians to begin with, the people in this forum are all the posers, like me?

 

All the more reason, IMO, to study it and get better than they are at it. Not that it actually works, but you will know. I'm not saying just study Xianity, but also gnosticism, Hindu, Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, Confucius, mythology, etc, even non-theistic philosophies too. It gets time consuming, even all consuming, and not everyone can do all of that. I was lucky to be able to take many classes at a local uni to help me get a start on studying all of them, as well as psychology. It was a start for me.

 

Thanks jumping ship sounds great! Now to figure money out...hahaha, I've always wanted to take psychology, but my parents always told me it would "mess me up" and I was "too weak" to take it. They said it would rock my faith. As I think I said before, they were right, and boy am I glad I took those types of classes. I never took psych (though I can now), but I took sociology, and that really 'rocked my faith.' Of course, they saw all the questions I asked while I was taking the class, and it confirmed in their minds that it was evil to take such classes as sociology. I am interested in taking up the study of religion, thankfully my current anthropology class talks about that alot

 

Well in one respect they are right- getting an education does help to rid one of superstition- "Reason is the enemy of faith". As for religion- if you study more than one as in monotheism v a religion like Buddhism or hinduism, it will really rock your mind and bust a few memes. I highly recommend both Buddhism and Hinduism. The "I AM's" and Jesus being the incarnation of God v Krishna being the incarnation of Vishnu will never look the same again (both from Hinduism- The Bhagavad-Gita). Hinduism did a lot for blowing the last memes I had and didn't realize it, then mythology reinforced it. Katabasis stories are not unique to previous myths, regardless of what an apologist might say of the Jesus story.

[cvd26]

I am sorry for all the emotional turmoil you seem to be going through. Leaving Christianity is NOT easy, but it is done...just look at all the stories on this board. I had to learn that there are "stages" to deconverting. Once you understand this you will be easier on yourself and get through it. And you WILL get through this. The more stories you read on here the more you will find that many people have been where you are. This will come as a great comfort to you. Your intellect and gut instinct is trying to tell you something and that is why you are questioning your beliefs.

 

Your parents sound so incredibly fundamentalist it isn't even funny. The best thing you could do for yourself is to move out... as soon as possible. You are 20 years old.. they cannot tell you what to do anymore!! You are allowing them to control your every move. How insane at your age. Most men/women your age are off in college living in a dorm or apartment, finding themselves, having the time of their life. I am not saying you should go out and binge drink or sleep around..that would not be smart either. But like someone else on here said, take it slow and put yourself out there in the "real" world. Not the jacked up version your parents what you to live in.

 

You are obviously smart, you have your whole life ahead of you, and a big part of you is wanting out of your current situation. You have all the power to change that. You mentioned that you didn't know if you could be happy ever again after leaving Christianity... I think you currently don't know what it is like to be happy considering the way you have been brought up. You will discover, in time, that freeing your mind from insane nonsense and cult thinking, that there is a whole incredible world out there to be discovered. Give yourself a chance to go find that out... and give yourself more credit that you WILL get through this just fine.

 

CVD

[shockwaves]

CVD - and Celtic Whisper, I'm at a conflict between the advices here lol. I definitely feel like I need to move out, but I SO want to break the news to them once I'm out on my own, and have friends, a lifestyle, to turn to. Right now, I have only them, pretty much.

I can't figure out what to do about them either. I currently (for the last week) go through cycles. I go to school depressed, I pop back by the middle of the day, and am happy, I'm meeting new people, participating in my classes, etc. Then I come home, and I'm only able to stay happy for about half an hour (on average) before I become completely depressed again. Its as if It takes me half a day @ school to convince myself that my parents/life aren't that bad, and then that misconception is broken instantly upon my arrival @ home.

 

I told you guys about the 'tech guy' thing my parents want me to be. Well, that isn't going well. I got into an argument with them yesterday about that, and told them I WOULD NOT be their tech guy any more, I needed to get A's in all my classes. I told them that by the nature of the job, they always need the job done RIGHT NOW, because they always need something fixed to make some deadline. I told them that I did not like how that was making me sacrifice my school-work time. Here's what they told me. First, they said "well, then you need to move out." then they told me "While you live here, it is your responsibility to pull your weight, and that means whenever we tell you to do something, you have to do it." Then I told them about the schoolwork problem again, and they said, "Ok, lets look @ how you spend your time. You spend FAR more time on your newspaper photo shoots than you spend helping us with your computers. We think you just aren't using your time wisely enough." Then they told me I must not care about them as much as I do about the newspaper, or I would sacrifice that, and they told me that I could get it all done if I stopped hanging out with friends...They still don't get it that it is the NATURE OF THE WORK that I don't like. PERFECT EXAMPLE! happened this morning. I usually take my brother to school @ 8 for his class, and then I wait there to do homework until my 9:30 class. This morning, I was all ready to go to school with my brother, and then they told me the printer was broken AGAIN, and I had to fix it. I said no, I have a class soon, and then they gave me this guilt trip about how they'd miss the deadline, etc, so I stayed, let my brother take the car alone. I had to have my dad drop me off @ school in his car, and then I didn't have a car to use later in the day when I had to go to lunch with friends, AND I was late to my 9:30 (not to mention missing out on the before class homework time). So...Am I being selfish here?? Of course I want you to say no, but if I am, I will accept it. I want your honest opinion.

 

All this to say I want to move out. Oh and on the computers, they are using computers that are over 6 years old!! I keep telling them most of the problems I spend my time on will fix themselves if they update their equipment, but of course they don't have money for that...Plus they owe me three grand already. We live in a very nice house (worth about a million), but every time I suggest downgrading our house in order to help our lifestyle out they yell..They really want to hold onto this house....even though the mortgage is killing them. Gah..I feel selfish. I need A's though..I guess I maybe should forget about the newspaper?? But that's part of my future.. I don't know. When's the soonest a transfer student can apply to another school?? If I get into another school they'd be all proud of me all of a sudden, and I'd be sent off happily, and they'd force themselves to come up with a tech guy alternative. Do transfer students HAVE to start at the beginning of a school year? Or if I applied now, could I start next fall, or spring??

 

Thanks guys,

 

You'll find these people! Soc club sounds like a good start.

And yeah, we're here for you, too.

I think there are good things in your future.

 

Phanta

 

<3 phanta haha

 

My suggestion would be to keep your religion (or, more to the point, lack thereof) under wraps until you've moved out and have yourself, your belongings, and your financial resources on the other side of a locked door that your family can't open.

 

I can definitely see the wisdom in this advice. Even now I'm just barely keeping my parents from excommunicating me from the family (figuratively). The only problem with this advice is that it means waiting. I don't think there is any way I could possibly move out of my house without telling them I'm doing so because we no longer believe the same things about God. So I'd have to wait until next fall, when I plan on applying to my colleges of choice (currently Berkley, UCLA, and Harvard). I'm telling you, there would be NO way I could move out and continue to go to the school I go to now...I'm so close to it I can walk there in about 45 minutes (I used to).

 

Well in one respect they are right- getting an education does help to rid one of superstition- "Reason is the enemy of faith". As for religion- if you study more than one as in monotheism v a religion like Buddhism or hinduism, it will really rock your mind and bust a few memes. I highly recommend both Buddhism and Hinduism. The "I AM's" and Jesus being the incarnation of God v Krishna being the incarnation of Vishnu will never look the same again (both from Hinduism- The Bhagavad-Gita). Hinduism did a lot for blowing the last memes I had and didn't realize it, then mythology reinforced it. Katabasis stories are not unique to previous myths, regardless of what an apologist might say of the Jesus story.

 

It really does seem to. Hahaha you would've laughed SO hard if you saw me reading your post mriana hahaha I crinjed, almost fell off my chair when you suggested I study Buddhism or Hinduism hahaha. I've always been trained to ABSOLUTELY SHUN any and all knowledge/advice/philosophies, etc that they have to offer. I'm not looking to jump into any other religion, but your idea about studying them to help me realize that some stories in the Bible are recycled myths is amazing! Can that really be? I do need to see that for myself - that would really confirm some things in my mind!

 

I am sorry for all the emotional turmoil you seem to be going through. Leaving Christianity is NOT easy, but it is done...just look at all the stories on this board. I had to learn that there are "stages" to deconverting. Once you understand this you will be easier on yourself and get through it. And you WILL get through this. The more stories you read on here the more you will find that many people have been where you are. This will come as a great comfort to you. Your intellect and gut instinct is trying to tell you something and that is why you are questioning your beliefs.

 

Your parents sound so incredibly fundamentalist it isn't even funny. The best thing you could do for yourself is to move out... as soon as possible. You are 20 years old.. they cannot tell you what to do anymore!! You are allowing them to control your every move. How insane at your age. Most men/women your age are off in college living in a dorm or apartment, finding themselves, having the time of their life. I am not saying you should go out and binge drink or sleep around..that would not be smart either. But like someone else on here said, take it slow and put yourself out there in the "real" world. Not the jacked up version your parents what you to live in.

 

You are obviously smart, you have your whole life ahead of you, and a big part of you is wanting out of your current situation. You have all the power to change that. You mentioned that you didn't know if you could be happy ever again after leaving Christianity... I think you currently don't know what it is like to be happy considering the way you have been brought up. You will discover, in time, that freeing your mind from insane nonsense and cult thinking, that there is a whole incredible world out there to be discovered. Give yourself a chance to go find that out... and give yourself more credit that you WILL get through this just fine.

 

CVD

Thanks CVD They are pretty extreme fundys. Some friends of mine (non-christians) were laughing at me earlier today @ lunch when I told them some little thing I always did @ home, saying it sounded like I was in a mormon family haha (once again, I didn't even realize it would strike them as wierd, I thought it was totally normal....awkward) haha, they're becoming good friends tho, so its cool.

[Seeker630]

from shockwaves---------------

 

"I'm not looking to jump into any other religion, but your idea about studying them to help me realize that some stories in the Bible are recycled myths is amazing! Can that really be? I do need to see that for myself - that would really confirm some things in my mind!"

 

Yes guy---most of the basic stories in Christianity appeared in other cultures long before anyone knew what a Christian was. Resurrections, virgin births, gods coming to earth in human form to "save" humanity, all of it. Check out this site and get ready for the ride----then let us know what you think-----------

 

http://www.pocm.info/

[Taphophilia]

Shockwave,

 

It is your parents who are extremely selfish people. What I see in your posts, that is very clear to me, is they refuse to let you be who you are. I see the struggle of you trying to find who you are and then being true to yourself. Yes, I can see that it's very frightening for you because it's very different from the expectations of what you have been molded to be.

 

I see not telling your parents what you believe and don't believe as protecting them and yourself. They obviously cannot handle it. It seems that, not only do they insist on controlling your actions and behavior, but they also insist on controlling your thoughts. Which, of course, they are failing miserably. You own your own thoughts and while realizing who you actually are, you own that too.

 

They have taken enough out of you. You do not have to give them anymore than you are comfortable with or what is safe to give them. You own who you are, they do not, and just because they insist on making it their business does not mean it is.

 

My advice is to let them think what they want until you are in a better position i.e. out of their house. You, of course, know how to deal with the dynamics of your family. However, I know it's not easy, but you don't have to counter them when they say things you disagree with. Just keep quiet, it's none of their freaking business what you think, how you feel, and the person you are and it will save you a lot of grief.

[Mriana]

Well in one respect they are right- getting an education does help to rid one of superstition- "Reason is the enemy of faith". As for religion- if you study more than one as in monotheism v a religion like Buddhism or hinduism, it will really rock your mind and bust a few memes. I highly recommend both Buddhism and Hinduism. The "I AM's" and Jesus being the incarnation of God v Krishna being the incarnation of Vishnu will never look the same again (both from Hinduism- The Bhagavad-Gita). Hinduism did a lot for blowing the last memes I had and didn't realize it, then mythology reinforced it. Katabasis stories are not unique to previous myths, regardless of what an apologist might say of the Jesus story.

 

It really does seem to. Hahaha you would've laughed SO hard if you saw me reading your post mriana hahaha I crinjed, almost fell off my chair when you suggested I study Buddhism or Hinduism hahaha. I've always been trained to ABSOLUTELY SHUN any and all knowledge/advice/philosophies, etc that they have to offer. I'm not looking to jump into any other religion, but your idea about studying them to help me realize that some stories in the Bible are recycled myths is amazing! Can that really be? I do need to see that for myself - that would really confirm some things in my mind!

 

I wasn't suggesting joining another religion. I was suggesting studying it to find the commonalities and to show there isn't anything new under the sun. These concepts have been around since the concept of Zeus or a sun deity. They are not unique to Xianity. Some people do need to see this though and to disregard the idea that the "devil" was there before Christ came to earth. That is not at all true. You might not need it, but some people might. They may need to realize that it is purely human concepts, tribal thinking, texts written to a specific culture in order to disregard some things that were taught them. Personally, I enjoy studying the different views and it reinforces the idea that it's all tribal thinking and human concepts. Laugh is you want, but it can be psychologically helpful to some people to research the human condition (via psychology, sociology, etc) and the evolution of religious thinking (via mythology and religion). I find the subject of the psychology of religious thinking very fascinating and thought provoking. This does not mean I believe it. What it does mean is that I have some grasp of the psychological aspects of religious thinking and indoctrination. It's all in the mind and religious texts right down to the Egyptian Book of the Dead, are human creations based on their culture and superstitions.