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Goodbye Jesus

The Devil's Music


Thegodthatfailed

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Guest Marty

I know 3 scales. The major, the major pentatonic (same thing except you skip the 4th and 7th positions), and the minor pentatonic (AKA the blues scale). On the rare occasion I need to know a minor scale, I have to pull out a beginning theory book I have as a reference. But really, all you need to know are the 3 I just listed...it's 99.98% of all the scales used in modern music.

 

I couldn't understand theory until I had someone show me, you may be the same. It's actually pretty easy, but it helps to have a keyboard and understand how a piano is laid out. I mostly use basic theory to find chords that underlay the melodies I hear in my head, or to find chord extensions to make typical progressions more interesting. Or in an improv situation, it helps to know where to take it, or how to add some texture to things like playing A minor solos over a C major progression.

 

You sound alot like me. Instead of finding an instructor, I'd just look for someone to jam with that understands theory. My "teacher" was able to reach me because he taught me using Beatles songs, but you could do the same with Metallica or anything. You just need to find someone that can communicate the same way you do. Keep it as informal jam sessions and it'll fall together. I bet most theory you already "know" and will be like, "duh". At least thats how I was with some things, I just now had a name for something...

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I know 3 scales. The major, the major pentatonic (same thing except you skip the 4th and 7th positions), and the minor pentatonic (AKA the blues scale). On the rare occasion I need to know a minor scale, I have to pull out a beginning theory book I have as a reference. But really, all you need to know are the 3 I just listed...it's 99.98% of all the scales used in modern music.

 

Wow! That is the straightest answer anybody has ever given me! I'm definitely encouraged now. :thanks: So it's that simple, eh?

 

So what might comprise the other 0.02% Dream Theater? Steve Vai? Michael Manring? Pat Metheny? John Scofield? John Zorn?

 

I couldn't understand theory until I had someone show me, you may be the same.

 

One friend of mine (former studio rat in Hollywood, worked with some big names) told me he could teach me everything I needed to know about theory in about two weeks. Then I told him about the jazz nerd friend of mine (the guy who was always trashing my musical tastes, etc.) and how he was going on and on about how I had to learn Phrygian, Dorian, and all this other shit and would never give me a straight answer, and he said "what the hell!? That's like Steve Vai shredder type shit. Unless you really wanna do that...."

 

You sound alot like me. Instead of finding an instructor, I'd just look for someone to jam with that understands theory. My "teacher" was able to reach me because he taught me using Beatles songs, but you could do the same with Metallica or anything. You just need to find someone that can communicate the same way you do. Keep it as informal jam sessions and it'll fall together. I bet most theory you already "know" and will be like, "duh". At least thats how I was with some things, I just now had a name for something...

 

I see what you mean. I was worried that if I had an instructor, he'd make me start out with basic kid's stuff for the first two years or something, which would drive me fucking nuts. As it stands right now, I can impress 78% of bassists out there with the shit I can pull, and irritate the other 22%. One of the best bassists I've ever known in my entire, entire life (the jazz nerd guy said he felt like crying out of self-pity when he saw this guy play) once told me "keep it up [VC] and you'll be better than me. Of course, then I'll have to kill you." He sounded kind of serious about that last bit. :HaHa:

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Guest Net Eng
One friend of mine (former studio rat in Hollywood, worked with some big names) told me he could teach me everything I needed to know about theory in about two weeks.

 

 

My bass instructor says much the same.

 

He mixes in theory in my lessons but doesn't want to make it the main focus.

 

Lately he's been encouraging me to come up with my own stuff and explore more (being classically trained makes me uptight about making mistakes).

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Guest Marty
Wow! That is the straightest answer anybody has ever given me! I'm definitely encouraged now. :thanks: So it's that simple, eh?

 

So what might comprise the other 0.02% Dream Theater? Steve Vai? Michael Manring? Pat Metheny? John Scofield? John Zorn?

 

Pretty much. What I currently have trouble understanding is modes, the Pathagoreian, mixolodian, etc. From my understanding, this is what Dream Theatre and Vai use, but so do the Grateful Dead. Modes are not so much different scales, but you start on a different position of the scale. For example, mixolodian is just the major scale, but you start on the fifth poisition. So C mixolodian would be G A B C D E F G. What I do not currently understand about this is how to actually apply it. Unlike jamming on the blues scale, I think you have to change modes with each chord change. So you would use the C mixolodian while the band was playing a C or Am, but when they went to Emaj you'd have to switch to a different mode.

 

But I could be wrong on this. Everytime I try to use modes, it never sounds right unless I change with each chord change.

 

One friend of mine (former studio rat in Hollywood, worked with some big names) told me he could teach me everything I needed to know about theory in about two weeks. Then I told him about the jazz nerd friend of mine (the guy who was always trashing my musical tastes, etc.) and how he was going on and on about how I had to learn Phrygian, Dorian, and all this other shit and would never give me a straight answer, and he said "what the hell!? That's like Steve Vai shredder type shit. Unless you really wanna do that...."

 

Exactly. IF you want to play that, then you have to know all that. But only if you want to be Steve Vai.

 

I see what you mean. I was worried that if I had an instructor, he'd make me start out with basic kid's stuff for the first two years or something, which would drive me fucking nuts. As it stands right now, I can impress 78% of bassists out there with the shit I can pull, and irritate the other 22%. One of the best bassists I've ever known in my entire, entire life (the jazz nerd guy said he felt like crying out of self-pity when he saw this guy play) once told me "keep it up [VC] and you'll be better than me. Of course, then I'll have to kill you." He sounded kind of serious about that last bit. :HaHa:

 

I've had people tell me my technique is holding me back and I have to relearn everything. But then I practice what they were showing me for a bit and I master it. I've taught myself how to play music, so of course I won't have "classic" technique. That's not why I play. I play cause it feels good to do so. But for what I play and write, I am perfectly suited to do it. Technique is only useful if you play technical music, which I don't. I spend months and years perfecting the most simple hooks and melodies. Simple is harder to do than complex, I feel.

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Guest Marty

The most useful thing to know about theory IMO are the chord positions. I'll use C cause it's easiest, but obviously this is movable. *EDIT* I had trouble making a simple chart here, I hope this is understandable...**

 

I II III IV V VI VII

C D E F G A B

M m m M M m dim

 

Right there you can describe an entire song to somebody. "It's just one six four five" in C" translates into "This songs chords are C, Am, F, then G" (Which are the chords for Earth Angel, Surfer Girl, Penny Lane, I Will, etc)

 

The Capitol M's under the notes are major chords, the lowercase m is for minor. So in the key of C you can use C Maj, D min, E min, F Maj, G Maj, A min, and B could be either Maj or min (it's naturally diminished, but it seldom works in a pop sense.) These M/m are not hard rules, they just reflect the gross majority of occurrences of the chords in a major key. But, for instance, you could play a I VI IV V progression with a Major VI chord, and it gives a different texture to a predictable progression.

 

**ADDITIONAL EDIT**

The really cool thing about this is most of the time whatever note is in the melody, is somewhere in the chord under it. Makes it real easy to figure almost anything out by ear.

 

And you can construct any chord in any key with this knowledge as well. A Major chord is simply the root, 3rd, and fifth positions of the scale. If you'll notice (a piano makes this easier to see), each note of the chord is a 3rd apart. So you want to make the major chord a 7th chord? So add another 3rd on top of the fifth. Wana make a 9 chord? Add a 3rd on top of the 7th!

 

You can take all of the above and apply it to minor chords as well, because the only difference between a major and minor chord in the minor chord will have the 3rd flatted by a half step. So if C Maj is C-E-G, then C min will be C-Eb-G. A half step difference. All other extensions are the same.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I was a Christian starting at age 7, and yet my whole life I felt the tug of the devil's music. I remember my first mashup, where around 10 or 11 I had a cassette tape of David Bowie's "Space Oddity." The cassette player had a record button, so I edited the song. Right after David sung "I'm stepping through the door" I inserted a brief scream. Musical genius, I was.

 

I always strove to listen to Christian music, and always preferred it, but if none was on the radio or available via album or cassette then secular music filled in. As a youth I justified my secular radio listening by the fact that there was rarely a Christian station playing anything contemporary. My first CCM memories are of hearing Evie, 2nd Chapter of Acts, Larry Norman, etc. Somewhere around 16 I signed up for a Columbia Records '99 cents' deal and had a ton of rock albums delivered to my door. I spent most of the summer lying on the living room floor listening to Aerosmith's 'Toys in the Attic,' Steely Dan's 'Aja,' Dan Fogelberg's 'Netherlands,' Chicago, Eddie Money, Boston, Kansas' 'Leftoverture,' Billy Joel's '42nd Street,' Supertramp's 'Even In The Quietest Moments' and Rick Wakeman's 'No Earthly Connection.'

 

At some point early in my college experience I became convinced that demons were coming out of the woodworks looking for Christians to devour, so I took those albums and put them in a trashcan outside my dorm. I then poured something sticky over them lest some other poor soul steal them and become possessed.

 

As soon as I escaped Charismania (many years later) I regretted not having those albums any more. As soon as I deconverted I began re-purchasing them. First as CD's, later as iTunes downloads.

 

So how did this affect me? What are my current musical tastes? LOL - thanks for asking.

 

Jazz

R&B

Soul

Rock

 

I like lots of stuff, but if I'm driving down the street with my windows down you're most likely to hear me booming rap, BPM or Top40 dance tunes. One of my current faves is Black Eyed Peas 'Boom Boom Pow' - loves me some Fergie!

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Stuff I listened to BEFORE Jesus:

King Crimson

Zappa

Yes

Genesis

Pink Floyd

Rush

Laurie Anderson

PFM

Beethoven

Maurice Ravel

Phillip Glass

 

Stuff I listened to AFTER Jesus:

Carman

2nd Chapter of Acts

Amy Grant

Sandi Patti

 

If you're familiar with at least some of the people in these two categories, you can imagine what a PAINFUL sacrifice it was for me to give up listening to what I actually LIKED and switch to what was "spiritually edifying".

Based on my experience working in a Christian bookstore for 1 1/2 years & getting to sample a wide range of Christian music, I have to say that there is NO GOOD CHRISTIAN MUSIC. AT ALL. EVER.

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Stuff I listened to BEFORE Jesus:

Yes

Pink Floyd

 

Yes & Pink Floyd FTW! You should check out a video floating around in teh intarwebs that is the last part of 2001 A Space Odissey with the song Echoes by Pink Floyd played alongside. Creepy! (just search for 2001 A Space Odyssey and Echoes, I don't know the exact name of the video...)

 

I have to say that there is NO GOOD CHRISTIAN MUSIC. AT ALL. EVER.

 

Mozart's Dies Irae would disagree with that...

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