Demons

[gypsy79]

Even after I finally learned what sleep paralysis was, I was too scared to deal with it in the way that the doctor told me too. Because I thought that if I didn't do it the Pentecostal way, that the demons would drive me mad and make me jump out a fifth floor window or some shit.

 

After I fell away, I tried what the doctor had told me to do years prior. And it worked like a charm.

 

What did the doc tell you to do? I am curious because I have horrible problems with sleep paralysis, half awake half asleep "dreaming" (read: skeery hallucinations). Sometimes it gets really bad and happens every night for what feels like freaking hours and hours and then sometimes I'll go a couple of months without it. I see floating heads and crazy stuff, and I cannot move or make the sounds I am trying to. Others say I moan or mumble nonsense, but I think I am trying to scream or yell full sentences. How annoying.

 

I have heard just giving in to it and falling back asleep works, so I have tried that a couple of times and it seemed to be okay, but the problem is that my natural instinct is to fight it and try as hard as I possibly can to wake up...because I know if I wake up fully the hallucinations will disappear and I'll be able to move again. It's scary to willingly allow yourself to go back to sleep while you are paralyzed.

[Vomit Comet]

I never seen them myself.

 

Count yourself lucky. I "know" that what I "saw" was hallucination...

 

...but I don't know if I'll ever be able to truly convince myself of that. Ironically, it's like it's a fucking matter of faith or something.

[Vomit Comet]

What did the doc tell you to do?

 

Basically, the same thing that schizophrenics are told to do when they're hallucinating or hearing shit. Tell yourself it isn't real, that you're half-dreaming. Even if you can't wake yourself up like you would from a bad dream that you suddenly realize is just a dream (which is the next step), telling yourself this will diminish the magnitude and make it end quicker. My sleep paralysis was just as bad as yours, and now I almost never get it.

 

Also, the key is to have a sarcastic/dismissive attitude.

 

Instead of "it's not real! Auuughhh!!! It's not real!!!!" like that scene in 'The Cell' when the guy was getting his intestines pulled out...

 

...you should go "aw gimme a fuckin' break, not this shit again! Please...."

[Autonomous]

My last church was actually pretty sensible about this but the previous one was quite into spiritual warfare. I remember they gave us all a pamphlet called "Bind the strong man" and we were all supposed to pray and fast for a week for breakthough in the church and town (the town was a grotty place with a lot of social problems and abuse going on which of course was down to demons).

 

Actually I was probably the most into demons in my last church. I went that way because of so many years of struggling to understand why my life as Christian seemed to be such a mess. Devil under every stone. Also my dh was quite into it, for example he freaked out when I told him someone had recommended I meditate for 10 mins a day, he had been taught that if you "empty your mind" a demon will get in.

 

He also told me that he and his mum believed his dad had a demon which is bizarre as his dad had schizophrenia caused by a head injury! He was a teenager then so I am guessing this stuff came from his mum, I remember his telling me how they took his dad to one of this healing things where they release people from "generational curses".

 

Even when we were first together as students I remember I was having problems in church with feeling God cared for everyone else but not me. In reality that was because I was depressed and it related to my sister having been diagnosed with a brain tumour. But when I said it was like someone was whispering in my ear that God didn't care about me, well you can imagine how he took that. He prayed for me and he was shaking and praying in tongues, and he said he sensed an evil presence in the room which then went away. I felt nothing the whole time but the "whispering in my ear" did go away after that.

 

The trouble really started when we got into Neil Anderson stuff. It wasn't so bad for dh, his problems went away when he did it, but mine carried on. And so much went wrong in my life I was convinced it was demons trying to mess things up so I would turn away from God. I felt so guiltridden and scared because I'd done the "steps to freedom in Christ" but was still depressed and bingeing etc. But damn it again it was down to me as I was the one who bought Victory over the Darkness, one of the many, many books I bought trying to find something that would make Christianity work for me. And then the Bondage Breaker and when then didn't work I bought a couple of his books about addictions as well. The guilt, the guilt when it didn't work, I believed that was all my fault.

 

Exacerbated by a visiting evangelist with a healing ministry, he had been "set free" from alcoholism and gambling on conversion and he said I was already free and all I had to do was walk in it. I asked if that meant it was my fault and he said, no, never say that. Um.... okay.

 

When we moved here and joined our new church we enthused to them about Neil Anderson and they actually cautioned us, I wish I'd listened. But I thought the church were foolish because they weren't taking the problem seriously and the pastor didn't preach about spiritual warfare.

 

I also did have a sleep paralysis experience towards the end, where I woke paralysed and could feel something pressing down on me. It was like it was pretending to be God but I could feel that really it was something evil. I managed to say "Jesus, Jesus" and it whooshed away off me and I woke up to a normal state. I told people at church about it and was ticked off that they didn't seem bothered or excited about it. They were probably thinking, what a nutter! But I wish they'd actually said something to me about it.

 

And here ends the story of demons and me.

[Shyone]

 

I also did have a sleep paralysis experience towards the end, where I woke paralysed and could feel something pressing down on me. It was like it was pretending to be God but I could feel that really it was something evil. I managed to say "Jesus, Jesus" and it whooshed away off me and I woke up to a normal state. I told people at church about it and was ticked off that they didn't seem bothered or excited about it. They were probably thinking, what a nutter! But I wish they'd actually said something to me about it.

 

And here ends the story of demons and me.

Neat! I've heard about sleep paralysis, and most people that have it don't know what it is. It seems to be at the heart of the UFO abduction movement, but the phenomenon is very real.

 

I have a question. I'm not familiar with the letters "dh". From the context it sounds like "significant other" but I may be wrong. Is it something like a spiritual guide, or maybe a deacon?

[agnosticator]

Neat! I've heard about sleep paralysis, and most people that have it don't know what it is. It seems to be at the heart of the UFO abduction movement, but the phenomenon is very real.

 

I've had some problems in the past with this. Here's something you might like if you haven't read much on the subject. Also Anomalistic Psychology is interesting.

 

 

I have a question. I'm not familiar with the letters "dh". From the context it sounds like "significant other" but I may be wrong. Is it something like a spiritual guide, or maybe a deacon?

 

dh= dear husband?

[Autonomous]

Yep just internet abbreviation for husband (officially dear husband but can also be darn husband or daft husband or whatever you like when required LOL), hence also dw, dd, ds, dcs (dear children).

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Metaphorically, I still believe monsters walk among us but they are disguised as humans. Realistically, these people are just evil! No demons, just very evil people. The bad part is that no one knows they are in the presence of such monsters until it is too late. I've met a few monsters in my life time.

 

I tend to agree. I've met at least two. The catch-phrase I listen for now is "You don't think I'd do anything like that, do you?" For example, the first one was a guy I worked with that was clean-cut and ever so positive. Cheerful attitude and good looking. But he liked to play with the neighbor's kids and the neighbors didn't like it. They warned him repeatedly to not play with the kids, but he didn't see anything wrong with it. He told he that they were accusing him of being a pedo, and then came the phrase "You don't think I'd do anything like that, do you?" At the time I said, "Nah, you seem like a nice guy." A week later the police came to work and took him away.

 

I knew a guy that had a house with a roommate, and the roommate one day accused him of going through his stuff and was freaking out about it. The guy said to me "You don't think I'd do anything like that, do you?" This guy became my housemate and sure enough, when I would go on a vacation for a few days, he would go through my stuff. He even took the window coverings down and was looking behind them for ...something. What I don't know. I set up a booby trap for him next time that made him think I had taken his picture in the act. He was sheepish after this for a while until I didn't produce a picture. I eventually got married and moved out. His last act of vileness towards me was to send us a wedding card, but inscribed with words to the effect that I wasn't ready for marriage...

[OpheliaGinger]

It is the clean cut guys (and women) that you should be most alert with. When someone looks ruff, you expect them to act as such (even though they can be the nicest and most generous people out there), but the clean cut ones can be sociopaths and manipulate people to believe they are saintly. Case-in-point, Ted Bundy.

[Shyone]

It is the clean cut guys (and women) that you should be most alert with. When someone looks ruff, you expect them to act as such (even though they can be the nicest and most generous people out there), but the clean cut ones can be sociopaths and manipulate people to believe they are saintly. Case-in-point, Ted Bundy.

And Jeffrey Dahmer. The most successful serial killers are the ones that can slime their way through society by presenting themselves as outwardly normal.

[Autonomous]

Even when we were first together as students I remember I was having problems in church with feeling God cared for everyone else but not me. In reality that was because I was depressed and it related to my sister having been diagnosed with a brain tumour. But when I said it was like someone was whispering in my ear that God didn't care about me, well you can imagine how he took that. He prayed for me and he was shaking and praying in tongues, and he said he sensed an evil presence in the room which then went away. I felt nothing the whole time but the "whispering in my ear" did go away after that.

 

The trouble really started when we got into Neil Anderson stuff. It wasn't so bad for dh, his problems went away when he did it, but mine carried on. And so much went wrong in my life I was convinced it was demons trying to mess things up so I would turn away from God. I felt so guiltridden and scared because I'd done the "steps to freedom in Christ" but was still depressed and bingeing etc. But damn it again it was down to me as I was the one who bought Victory over the Darkness, one of the many, many books I bought trying to find something that would make Christianity work for me. And then the Bondage Breaker and when then didn't work I bought a couple of his books about addictions as well. The guilt, the guilt when it didn't work, I believed that was all my fault.

 

I also did have a sleep paralysis experience towards the end, where I woke paralysed and could feel something pressing down on me. It was like it was pretending to be God but I could feel that really it was something evil. I managed to say "Jesus, Jesus" and it whooshed away off me and I woke up to a normal state. I told people at church about it and was ticked off that they didn't seem bothered or excited about it. They were probably thinking, what a nutter! But I wish they'd actually said something to me about it.

 

Holy crap.

 

I'm glad you're feeling better.

 

Phanta

 

Thanks. Me too .

[Oddity]

We had a charismatic church for quite some time. Tongues, rolling on the floor, catchy modern worship music (it still gets in my head sometimes), all that fun stuff.

 

I thought the demons were a metaphor (even as a Christian I could only process it like that), but the rest of the church full-on believed in them. Well, Associate Pastor Dad has his reservations and gives a decent apologist explanation, but only expressed them in quiet conversations with me and the people that were freaked out by that kinda thing.

 

We had "exorcisms", spiritual warfare, etc, and the head pastor seemed to think scaring potential members off was merely a display of God's Awesome Powahs (insert flashy lightning and stuff here).

 

There were also reports of angels, but just guardian angels and such. No demon-ass-kicking.

 

At one point, they totally blew me away with "All you have to do is truthfully say you're a child of God and Satan and his demons will leave you alone!" and then continued the spiritual warfare. If that was all that was needed, what was with all the charismatic bullshit?

 

We had this one lady that was completely insane. She always yelled the loudest, randomly ululated (sp?) in the middle of the worship, rolled around on the floor, and once played the role of the posessed in an exorcism. After we moved provinces, I heard without my parents meaning for me to hear it (pastors' kids know a lot of things they shouldn't) that this lady's household was always caught up in the latest magical-healing-ever-so-holy-bottle-of-tapwater scam.

 

Oh, and there was also a freaky mass exorcism thing at one pastor's kid's retreat I attended...everything seemed perfectly normal, from the kids being manipulative little bastards (I refused to play their juvenile mind games and spent most of my time watching the minnows in the lake or drawing) outside of the tabernacle, to the icky camp food, until one night, my attention strayed during a worship service, and the next thing I knew, they were handing out garbage bags in case of vomit and telling us if we felt our hands tingling it was just the cold 'cause all the windows were open and there was a breeze coming in off the lake demons attacking and we had to shake our hands and pray harder to keep them at bay. They started shouting "Spirit of x, we banish you in the name of Jesus!". At first it was just things like addiction, doubt, cutting, that kinda stuff, then they started replacing x with lust, masturbation, homosexuality, lesbianism (yes, they said lesbianism right after homosexuality), bisexuality...I started shaking my hands at lesbianism to see if anyone would notice, but to my disappointment, only got one brief sideways glance.

 

It went on. Hands shook, feet stomped, someone actually puked. People started yelling. It was getting late. I left a spirit or two after witchcraft to find that it was pitch black out, 1:45 AM or so, and there were some wild animal's eyes flashing in the distance. Wolves were native to the area. I looked back at the tabernacle, then at the flashing eyes, and took my chances on the animal. Whatever it was ran off when I didn't directly approach it, though, so I made it safely back to my cabin, followed closely by the other girls that woke me up with cries of "Man, that was intense!", "Wow, unbelievable", and one meek little "I hope they don't do anything like that again."

[Vomit Comet]

*BUMP*

 

For the newbies.

 

And because I plan on telling my full story soon.

[dichotomy]

I can't believe I could check off EVERY SINGLE ITEM on that last list, VC. Oh the memories.

 

Spiritual warfare was a cornerstone of the churches i attended. When i was a believer, I saw demons everywhere and I constantly thought they were trying to fuck with me. I was convinced that I was being oppressed by demons because I was depressed... I underwent two "deliverances" (charismatic exorcisms) when I was 19, and was obsessed with freeing people and places from demonic influences. Pretty much anything having to do with anything originating anywhere south or east of Israel was considered probably demonic. If you did yoga, you let demons in. If you listened to certain music, you let demons in. Tarot? Demons. Ouija? Demons. Hypnosis? Demons. Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Demons. Masturbation? Demons. Meditation? Demons. Martial arts? Demons. I could go on for days. It was ridiculous, and literally drove me to the brink of insanity.

 

Yup this is me too. OMFG I can not believe that I pretty much believed and did everything on that list at least once!! I really had no idea I was so nutty, I mean I was clearly nutty and mentally unstable....

 

The thing that pushed me over the edge was Harry Potter and card tricks. I loved the Harry Potter novels and my husband likes magic tricks and slight of hand, but both of these were seriously attributed to demons and satan by some members of the church that we attended at the time and it made me *think* realistically about it and within about 18months I was totally over my demon fascination but I was in that spiritual warfare, demons on every corner -Frank Peretti world - for a good 4 years of my life! No wonder I was fucked up in the head.

[dichotomy]

Even when we were first together as students I remember I was having problems in church with feeling God cared for everyone else but not me. In reality that was because I was depressed and it related to my sister having been diagnosed with a brain tumour. But when I said it was like someone was whispering in my ear that God didn't care about me, well you can imagine how he took that. He prayed for me and he was shaking and praying in tongues, and he said he sensed an evil presence in the room which then went away. I felt nothing the whole time but the "whispering in my ear" did go away after that.

 

The trouble really started when we got into Neil Anderson stuff. It wasn't so bad for dh, his problems went away when he did it, but mine carried on. And so much went wrong in my life I was convinced it was demons trying to mess things up so I would turn away from God. I felt so guiltridden and scared because I'd done the "steps to freedom in Christ" but was still depressed and bingeing etc. But damn it again it was down to me as I was the one who bought Victory over the Darkness, one of the many, many books I bought trying to find something that would make Christianity work for me. And then the Bondage Breaker and when then didn't work I bought a couple of his books about addictions as well. The guilt, the guilt when it didn't work, I believed that was all my fault.

 

I can really relate to this, even down to the books, I bought Victory over darkness and a couple similar because I was told they would help me, but they didn't.

 

I'm really pleased you're not feeling like this anymore.

[Pandora Moon]

If you did yoga, you let demons in. If you listened to certain music, you let demons in. Tarot? Demons. Ouija? Demons. Hypnosis? Demons. Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Demons. Masturbation? Demons. Meditation? Demons. Martial arts? Demons. I could go on for days. It was ridiculous, and literally drove me to the brink of insanity. Then I left the country and spent time with much more reasonable christians who took a much more sensible view of things, as far as christianity goes. They were my way out, really.

 

It almost sounds like you were involved with the Jehovah's Witnesses and they pretty much thought the things you listed were demonic in someway. At least now we can do this stuff without fear of demons

[StriveForTolerance]

I read through this entire thread with rapt attention, because I was also taken in by the "Lard Jesus, cast out this demon" teachings.

 

I was depressed and self-harming for about 9 months (rough guess) when my mother tearfully told me she was CERTAIN it was demonic influence. I "heard" (imagined) voices telling my to hurt and kill myself and others, so it didn't take much convincing before I believed it too. Of course, you can imagine what followed - prayer requests, my mother crying a whole lot more (somehow I didn't fully connect that to my suicide attempt), and lots of "praying the demons out of me."

 

And I swallowed every bit of that shit; I was so desperate for an answer.

 

My "answer"? Despite a rather intense prayer session with a pastor and his wife, lots of youth group time, and nightly pleas to god, what finally fixed the "voices of hell" was... medication.

Yes, in spite of Christian and even secular "psychology," good ol' science had the final word.

[Dibllsmek]

I read through this entire thread with rapt attention, because I was also taken in by the "Lard Jesus, cast out this demon" teachings.

 

I was depressed and self-harming for about 9 months (rough guess) when my mother tearfully told me she was CERTAIN it was demonic influence. I "heard" (imagined) voices telling my to hurt and kill myself and others, so it didn't take much convincing before I believed it too. Of course, you can imagine what followed - prayer requests, my mother crying a whole lot more (somehow I didn't fully connect that to my suicide attempt), and lots of "praying the demons out of me."

 

And I swallowed every bit of that shit; I was so desperate for an answer.

 

My "answer"? Despite a rather intense prayer session with a pastor and his wife, lots of youth group time, and nightly pleas to god, what finally fixed the "voices of hell" was... medication.

Yes, in spite of Christian and even secular "psychology," good ol' science had the final word.

My sister had a similar experience, she "heard" voiced telling her to cut herself and set multiple things on fire (its strange to come home with the curtains on fire), she finally got some medication and is mostly normal (sans the rage fit every once in a while). But instead of thanking the doctor that proscribed the medicine, she thanks god "because he's the only one who helped." It bugs the hell out of me, but I love her.

[violentlygraceful]

While the Calvary Chapel I attended had 'exorcised' people who had become unruly during church service and specifically prayer, I never witnessed it first-hand, and was highly skeptical of it. I took James 1:12-16 very seriously - meaning that whenever I happened to screw up, I considered it to be entirely my fault, because it was my own flesh which was tempting me. I never really defined a level of influence I believed that Satan and his demons had on the world, where some people I have known were almost ditheistic in their beliefs.

[sumluvlifilth]

The church I was a part of kept me and several others from seeking medical care and mental health help for years. Everyone in my church saw demons in everything. Just thinking about it makes me angry.

I agree with everyone saying Pentecostals are wacked. I was one, and I was definitely wacked (probably still am, but at least I don't attribute it to demons)

[LivingLife]

Isn't it ironic that the only ones demuns seem to affect are believers?

 

My debates with teh woo woos, it certainly came across that belief in satan and the demuns was far more relevant and important than belief in gawd. If we take what is commonly believed that the third of the angels kicked out became demuns then ol' facktard yahweh and his cock sucking angels that stayed behind are pretty piss poor defenders of teh faithfool, I mean the demuns have to be outnumbered 2:1 based on the myth yet the demuns still seem to have a huge influence on the faithfool and the good guys seem actually pretty powerless to do anything. (speaking as if they were real of course)

 

Demuns and the debbul are mere deflective excuses for the failings of teh faithfools, cannot blame oneself as they are created perfect in the eyez of teh lard.

 

Fucking wankers

[Leinad89]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I think. This is my first post, right? Anyway.

Hi:)

 

As a person who in the last couple of years has been trying to contact God and get in touch with this ever so elusive creature to no avail, it was fascinating to hear about how EASY it was to get in touch with "the other side of the force". I mean, just listen to the wrong music or wear the wrong tattoo, and BAM, you're in touch with the devil himself, pretty much. But with god, even if I did "everything right", sought and sought and desired for his presence so bad, there was no answer on the other side.

[Suzy]

Pentecostals may have had more fun than those boring, tight-ass Southern Baptists... but I'm starting to think that being a Southern Baptist is better for one's mental health.

 

You bet it is! My church was Pentacostal and all this demon stuff seriously messed up my mind! 

[MultifariousBirdLady]

They only see them when I walk in. Not sure why.

 

Seriously, though... while still shaky after deconverting, and when I was first exploring more "magical" religions like Wicca, I was occasionally scared that some spirit-filled Christian would one day spontaneously single me out and "discern" that I had demons. (Seems sorta like cooties, actually.)

 

Not once has that ever happened, though, and at this point (finally!) I would probably laugh at such a pronouncement.

 

Pentecostals may have had more fun than those boring, tight-ass Southern Baptists... but I'm starting to think that being a Southern Baptist is better for one's mental health.

 

Boy, that's definitely a relative sliding scale there!

You aren't kidding!

 

 

(Bondage Breaker and another book by the same author) that basically told me all my problems were because of demons.

I have that book, too!

In my case, "Every Wind of Doctrine" by Hobart Freeman is what started me off on that path. My parents gave it to me in the 7th grade.

That still boggles my mind. I really don't think they read it before giving it to me.

 

 

I can't believe I could check off EVERY SINGLE ITEM on that last list, VC. Oh the memories.

Almost every single one, for me, during the period when it was at its worst. The only thing I didn't do was denounce other people.

 

I put "other" for the first two questions, though, because I was in a few different churches and evangelical groups at different points in time, and how they thought of those things varied quite a lot.

 

Pretty much anything having to do with anything originating anywhere south or east of Israel was considered probably demonic. If you did yoga, you let demons in. If you listened to certain music, you let demons in. Tarot? Demons. Ouija? Demons. Hypnosis? Demons. Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Demons. Masturbation? Demons. Meditation? Demons. Martial arts? Demons. I could go on for days. It was ridiculous, and literally drove me to the brink of insanity.

The book by Hobart Freeman was pretty much exactly like this.

 

I supplemented that with regular visits to the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship and a local psycho-pentecostal congregation.

Been there, but only after getting out and healing enough to go back and take a more critical look at this shit from outside the faith.

 

Good times. :-P You're lucky you never encountered that kind of stuff... it can seriously fuck you up.

I can attest to that.

[ogilvy]

Based on that thing Jesus said about when a thief enters a strong mans house, or a strong man enters a man's house, or something, and the strong man is bound.. a lot of people took that to mean that any Christian can 'bind the strong man', ie. the devil. So it was encouraged to battle against Satan, in the form of any trouble that came upon one, by somehow spiritually or something 'binding the strong man'. So whatever troubling thing was going on, sickness or fear or doubt or whatever, they would say "I bind thee Satan in the name of Jesus". I didn't like it. It seemed creepy. Another thing was to announce that they were 'covering' someone with the blood of Jesus, as like a protection thing, for instance if someone was embarking on a journey. I didn't think those things were according to the Bible, when I was a 'bible believing Christian'. I thought they were ideas over and above wha the Bible actually taught, like a 'man-made tradition, and 'not of God'. I used to think that the people who liked that sort of thing were they sort of people who if they were not Christians would have been into seances and communicating with dead spirits. I didn't think it was the real Christianiy.